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Re: Feeder wire

 

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Copper is the 2nd best conductor, followed by #1 Silver. It is ahead of Gold and Aluminum.

?

G

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of 3CURLY3 via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2025 8:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [w4dccqa] Feeder wire

?

I purchased a spool of 22awg solid wire for feeders. The wire is insulated and upon removal of some insulation, I noticed that despite the wire being shiny under the insulation, the wire is copper. Is copper proper to use for feeders?

Re: Feeder wire

 

Yes, copper is fine to use.? I only use copper wire. It is the recommended wire for all applications, whether feeders, buss lines, etc.? The choice of preference that comes into consideration is whether to use solid or stranded copper wire.? Generally, it comes down to ease of use and what works best for you...
?
John G.
Re: Feeder wire

 

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3CURLY3,

To start:? Please sign your messages.??


Your questions set me back a bit. It has been many years since I asked similar questions.

Copper is the most common conductive material used in wire. It is considerably LESS expensive than silver. That difference in cost at the wholesale/retail level is why copper wire is more common/popular than silver wire for model railroads. Yes, the relatively low resistance of a given copper wire can be measured (with suitable test equipment) but when used appropriately, the small copper wires commonly used with model railroads will provide years of satisfactory operation.

There are several sources of published information regarding the selection of suitable copper wire sizes (metric and imperial) for the model railroader: on-line (start with the ‘Files’ section of this Group), books and magazines. If you haven’t already, try searching on a phrase like ‘wiring your layout’ to get started.

The selection of feeder wire begins with understanding which Scale of model railroad you what to use on your layout. At an extreme, O-scale will require track feeders that are larger in cross-section than those for N-scale.

Search out information to expand your knowledge and when you are stumped be sure to ASK.

--Dave McBrayer

Auburn, CA

---------------


On 04/28/2025 9:11 AM, 3CURLY3 via groups.io wrote:

What are the good brands of pure silver everyone is using? And copper?
?
Thanks.?
On 04/27/2025 10:13 PM CDT JOHN BISHOP <john_bishop@...> wrote:
?
?
?
Copper is the only wire suitable for any layout wiring. Only pure silver is a better conductor.
?
John Bishop
?
On Sunday, April 27, 2025 at 06:55:32 PM PDT, 3CURLY3 via groups.io <3curly3@...> wrote:
?
?
I purchased a spool of 22awg solid wire for feeders. The wire is insulated and upon removal of some insulation, I noticed that despite the wire being shiny under the insulation, the wire is copper. Is copper proper to use for feeders?


--
Dave McBrayer
Auburn, CA
Re: Feeder wire

 

What are the good brands of pure silver everyone is using? And copper?
?
Thanks.?

On 04/27/2025 10:13 PM CDT JOHN BISHOP <john_bishop@...> wrote:
?
?
?
Copper is the only wire suitable for any layout wiring. Only pure silver is a better conductor.
?
John Bishop
?
On Sunday, April 27, 2025 at 06:55:32 PM PDT, 3CURLY3 via groups.io <3curly3@...> wrote:
?
?
I purchased a spool of 22awg solid wire for feeders. The wire is insulated and upon removal of some insulation, I noticed that despite the wire being shiny under the insulation, the wire is copper. Is copper proper to use for feeders?

Re: Feeder wire

 

Copper is the only wire suitable for any layout wiring. Only pure silver is a better conductor.

John Bishop

On Sunday, April 27, 2025 at 06:55:32 PM PDT, 3CURLY3 via groups.io <3curly3@...> wrote:


I purchased a spool of 22awg solid wire for feeders. The wire is insulated and upon removal of some insulation, I noticed that despite the wire being shiny under the insulation, the wire is copper. Is copper proper to use for feeders?

Re: Feeder wire

 

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Yes. ?I use it on my layout.

Bob





Robert Heroux

ACCU-LITES, Inc.
12172 RT47
Suite 130
Huntley, IL 60142

Phone: 847.224.7914

NMRA Member # 143811


On Apr 27, 2025, at 20:55, 3CURLY3 via <3CURLY3@...> wrote:

I purchased a spool of 22awg solid wire for feeders. The wire is insulated and upon removal of some insulation, I noticed that despite the wire being shiny under the insulation, the wire is copper. Is copper proper to use for feeders?

Feeder wire

 

I purchased a spool of 22awg solid wire for feeders. The wire is insulated and upon removal of some insulation, I noticed that despite the wire being shiny under the insulation, the wire is copper. Is copper proper to use for feeders?

Re: RRampmeter and Circuit Breaker

 

When used for measuring current, it doesn't matter much as it'll drop to zero in case of a short either way.

When using it to measure voltage, having it after the breaker will be more useful, because you will see the lack of voltage. Before the breaker, even if tripped, the normal DCC voltage will be present.

Wouter

On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 at 20:06, Gary Chudzinski via <chudgr=[email protected]> wrote:
Is there any advantage/disadvantage in what order a DCC Specialties RRampmeter and PSXX
Circuit Breaker?are placed between a Booster and Track Bus? I'm not aware of any but just checking.
?
Gary Chudzinski
Re: RRampmeter and Circuit Breaker

 

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Good question, Gary. ?I ve never been asked that one before.

There is no crime if you put it after the breaker, but the highest it will read is just below the trip point.

I have mine right after the booster and before my electronic circuit breakers. ?If i get enough trains going, this might give me an indication that I might need additional boosters.

Do what suits you.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC

iPhone iTypos iAutocorrect iApologize


On Apr 15, 2025, at 3:06?PM, Gary Chudzinski via groups.io <chudgr@...> wrote:

?
Is there any advantage/disadvantage in what order a DCC Specialties RRampmeter and PSXX
Circuit Breaker?are placed between a Booster and Track Bus? I'm not aware of any but just checking.
?
Gary Chudzinski
RRampmeter and Circuit Breaker

 

Is there any advantage/disadvantage in what order a DCC Specialties RRampmeter and PSXX
Circuit Breaker?are placed between a Booster and Track Bus? I'm not aware of any but just checking.
?
Gary Chudzinski
Re: Electrical short

 

FYI – the PSX/PSXX buzzer is Same Sky (Formerly CUI Devices) CEP-2224.

?

DigiKey Part Number 102-1119-ND

?

DigiKey price $2.43 each;? 10/$19.82

?

?

Ross
Re: Electrical short

 

Be aware that most electronic "buzzers" are high frequency piezzo oscillators. Some of us have trouble hearing their "screech"...?

I think there'd be a market for a lower pitched device, and they shouldn't be expensive given today's electronics. The? model airplane guys have the same problem, and have lower pitch devices to put in their models, should they get lost.

Don W

--
Don Weigt
Connecticut
Re: Electrical short

 

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That should a Yes not a Test! ?:)
iPhone iTypos iAutocorrect iApologize


On Apr 15, 2025, at 8:01?AM, Allan AE2V via groups.io <bigboy@...> wrote:

? Tes, Sonalert is a brand name for buzzers. ?They have been around for decades and are available from miltiple sources.
iPhone iTypos iAutocorrect iApologize


On Apr 14, 2025, at 9:29?PM, 3CURLY3 via groups.io <3CURLY3@...> wrote:

?
Allan,
?
The PSSXX circuit breaker buzzer goes by name of Sonalert. I found at Iron Planet Hobbies.?
On 04/10/2025 5:45 PM CDT Allan AE2V <bigboy@...> wrote:
?
?
Ted,
?
While you are at your model RR store tomorrow, check out my book, "DCC & Model Railroading".? It has the latest I have written and graphics on wiring your layout.? Also, check out the track sections of my website at:?
?
DCC Specialties PSXX electronic circuit breaker has an optional buzzer that will sound when it detects a short.? The NCE EB1 doesn't have an optional buzzer, but has very flexible settings like the PSXX, is smaller, and less expensive.
?
Allan
?

Re: Electrical short

 

开云体育

Tes, Sonalert is a brand name for buzzers. ?They have been around for decades and are available from miltiple sources.
iPhone iTypos iAutocorrect iApologize


On Apr 14, 2025, at 9:29?PM, 3CURLY3 via groups.io <3CURLY3@...> wrote:

?
Allan,
?
The PSSXX circuit breaker buzzer goes by name of Sonalert. I found at Iron Planet Hobbies.?
On 04/10/2025 5:45 PM CDT Allan AE2V <bigboy@...> wrote:
?
?
Ted,
?
While you are at your model RR store tomorrow, check out my book, "DCC & Model Railroading".? It has the latest I have written and graphics on wiring your layout.? Also, check out the track sections of my website at:?
?
DCC Specialties PSXX electronic circuit breaker has an optional buzzer that will sound when it detects a short.? The NCE EB1 doesn't have an optional buzzer, but has very flexible settings like the PSXX, is smaller, and less expensive.
?
Allan
?

Re: Electrical short

 

Allan,
?
The PSSXX circuit breaker buzzer goes by name of Sonalert. I found at Iron Planet Hobbies.?

On 04/10/2025 5:45 PM CDT Allan AE2V <bigboy@...> wrote:
?
?
Ted,
?
While you are at your model RR store tomorrow, check out my book, "DCC & Model Railroading".? It has the latest I have written and graphics on wiring your layout.? Also, check out the track sections of my website at:?
?
DCC Specialties PSXX electronic circuit breaker has an optional buzzer that will sound when it detects a short.? The NCE EB1 doesn't have an optional buzzer, but has very flexible settings like the PSXX, is smaller, and less expensive.
?
Allan
?

Re: Electrical short

 

Ted,
?
While you are at your model RR store tomorrow, check out my book, "DCC & Model Railroading".? It has the latest I have written and graphics on wiring your layout.? Also, check out the track sections of my website at:?
?
DCC Specialties PSXX electronic circuit breaker has an optional buzzer that will sound when it detects a short.? The NCE EB1 doesn't have an optional buzzer, but has very flexible settings like the PSXX, is smaller, and less expensive.
?
Allan
?
Re: Electrical short

 

Allan - tried the nine volt test on the industrial section with a nine volt battery hooked up and got 5-9 indicator via a track voltage tester!.??
Have now turned my attention back to the mining section.? Started with all 3 auto reversers disconnected and not even a hum.? Then I reconnected the power cab to the layout but without connecting to an external power source and without reconnecting the auto reverses - Big Buzzer sound.? At this stage I am going to try and simplify the wiring.? I have 3 main bus lines to the mining section and one to the industrial section. Unfortunately (?) the power cab is input into an terminal block that is daisy chained to all the main power busses, a turntable and 3 DPDT switches which control power to 3 engine houses (so that locos not in use are not running), so it is difficult to divide and conquer re shorts.? With some rework and cutting more gaps in tracks with plastic rail joiners I can group the three buses feeding the? mining section into separate power blocks.? My main issue with that is how to get power to four?power bus lines without daisy chaining / interconnecting the four buses.? Thought about using a DPDT switch on each bus output from the daisy chain & turning them on one at a time to see which bus shorts out.? Perhaps easier than circuit breakers (certainly easier to acquire as I live in the 'back 40' & do not have easy access to an electronics store), nor the knowledge to select a circuit breaker (intend to ask my model rr store tomorrow).? Also, believe that even if I could run 4 lines directly from the power cab to each power district, presumably if one bus has a short it will impact all 4 bus lines.? Any thoughts appreciated.

Thx Ted

On Wed, Apr 9, 2025 at 10:56?AM Allan AE2V via <bigboy=[email protected]> wrote:

Ted,

?

If you had the AR connected and got faint buzz, there is probably nothing wrong with the AR.? If your AR was disconnected and you still got a faint buzz, do you have any engines, lighted cars or caboose or cars with sound modules?? Is your booster disconnected as well? In any event, I don’t have a big concern over a faint buzz.?

?

You can try this alternate diagnosing approach.? Make sure your booster is disconnected and attach a 9V battery.? Now you should be able to get 9V everywhere you look.? Again make sure you are not trying to go through your AR.

?

Allan

?

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ted Atkinson via
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2025 9:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Electrical short

?

Allan - disconnected all auto reverser wires and the humming stopped. Don't know if this means there could be a fault in the AR or elsewhere.? I do not have electronic circuit breakers installed.

?

?

On Mon, Apr 7, 2025 at 5:02?PM Allan AE2V via <bigboy=[email protected]> wrote:

Ted,

?

You said you disconnected the reverser.? Was it disconnected when you got the faint buzzer sound?? Do you have an electronic circuit breakers installed?

?

The buzzers are very sensitive.? They will sound even when you have a "high" resistance.? I haven't done a detailed study as to what will trigger them, but I think they will still make a sound with several thousand ohms in the track circuit.? If you have auto reversers, electronic circuit breakers, or frog juicers, I think these all may cause your buzzer to sound.

?

The bottom line is that a high resistance will not inhibit your train from running.? So there is no need to worry about a faint buzzer sound as long as your train is running fine on the track in question.

?

Allan Gartner

Wiring for DCC.
Re: Electrical short

 

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?

Ted responds:

?

“Steve - did not intall?water, ballast etc - no fluids.? Only installed a 'pile' of real pink granite and some vegetation.”

?

OK – we can eliminate that as an option.? It has been the issue multiple times in the past – good to know it doesn’t apply here.

?

Best regards,

?

Steve

?

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie,? WA??

?

On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 1:00?PM Steve Haas via <Goatfisher2=[email protected]> wrote:

Ted,

?

You mentioned scenery modifications.? By any chance did these modifications include the use of water and/or other fluids in/on the track (such as laying down ballast)?? If so, you might have a short caused by the moisture.? If so, the issue will resolve itself as the moisture from the glues/etc. evaporates.

?

Best regards,

?

Steve

?

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ted Atkinson via
Sent: Monday, April 7, 2025 12:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [w4dccqa] Electrical short

?

I have a layout with two ~ 4 x 8 sections(mining & industrial) powered by an NCE power cab.? Some time ago I did some scenery modifications on the mining section (that did not involve track mods).? When I attempted to resume operations, nothing worked including the power cab.
Re: Electrical short

 

开云体育

Ted,

?

If you had the AR connected and got faint buzz, there is probably nothing wrong with the AR.? If your AR was disconnected and you still got a faint buzz, do you have any engines, lighted cars or caboose or cars with sound modules?? Is your booster disconnected as well? In any event, I don’t have a big concern over a faint buzz.?

?

You can try this alternate diagnosing approach.? Make sure your booster is disconnected and attach a 9V battery.? Now you should be able to get 9V everywhere you look.? Again make sure you are not trying to go through your AR.

?

Allan

?

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ted Atkinson via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2025 9:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Electrical short

?

Allan - disconnected all auto reverser wires and the humming stopped. Don't know if this means there could be a fault in the AR or elsewhere.? I do not have electronic circuit breakers installed.

?

?

On Mon, Apr 7, 2025 at 5:02?PM Allan AE2V via <bigboy=[email protected]> wrote:

Ted,

?

You said you disconnected the reverser.? Was it disconnected when you got the faint buzzer sound?? Do you have an electronic circuit breakers installed?

?

The buzzers are very sensitive.? They will sound even when you have a "high" resistance.? I haven't done a detailed study as to what will trigger them, but I think they will still make a sound with several thousand ohms in the track circuit.? If you have auto reversers, electronic circuit breakers, or frog juicers, I think these all may cause your buzzer to sound.

?

The bottom line is that a high resistance will not inhibit your train from running.? So there is no need to worry about a faint buzzer sound as long as your train is running fine on the track in question.

?

Allan Gartner

Wiring for DCC.
Re: Electrical short

 

Steve - did not intall?water, ballast etc - no fluids.? Only installed a 'pile' of real pink granite and some vegetation.??

On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 1:00?PM Steve Haas via <Goatfisher2=[email protected]> wrote:

Ted,

?

You mentioned scenery modifications.? By any chance did these modifications include the use of water and/or other fluids in/on the track (such as laying down ballast)?? If so, you might have a short caused by the moisture.? If so, the issue will resolve itself as the moisture from the glues/etc. evaporates.

?

Best regards,

?

Steve

?

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ted Atkinson via
Sent: Monday, April 7, 2025 12:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [w4dccqa] Electrical short

?

I have a layout with two ~ 4 x 8 sections(mining & industrial) powered by an NCE power cab.? Some time ago I did some scenery modifications on the mining section (that did not involve track mods).? When I attempted to resume operations, nothing worked including the power cab.
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