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Re: Electrical short

 

Allan - disconnected all auto reverser wires and the humming stopped. Don't know if this means there could be a fault in the AR or elsewhere.? I do not have electronic circuit breakers installed.


On Mon, Apr 7, 2025 at 5:02?PM Allan AE2V via <bigboy=[email protected]> wrote:
Ted,
?
You said you disconnected the reverser.? Was it disconnected when you got the faint buzzer sound?? Do you have an electronic circuit breakers installed?
?
The buzzers are very sensitive.? They will sound even when you have a "high" resistance.? I haven't done a detailed study as to what will trigger them, but I think they will still make a sound with several thousand ohms in the track circuit.? If you have auto reversers, electronic circuit breakers, or frog juicers, I think these all may cause your buzzer to sound.
?
The bottom line is that a high resistance will not inhibit your train from running.? So there is no need to worry about a faint buzzer sound as long as your train is running fine on the track in question.
?
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC.
Re: Electrical short

 

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Ted,

?

You mentioned scenery modifications.? By any chance did these modifications include the use of water and/or other fluids in/on the track (such as laying down ballast)?? If so, you might have a short caused by the moisture.? If so, the issue will resolve itself as the moisture from the glues/etc. evaporates.

?

Best regards,

?

Steve

?

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ted Atkinson via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 7, 2025 12:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [w4dccqa] Electrical short

?

I have a layout with two ~ 4 x 8 sections(mining & industrial) powered by an NCE power cab.? Some time ago I did some scenery modifications on the mining section (that did not involve track mods).? When I attempted to resume operations, nothing worked including the power cab.
Re: Electrical short

 

Ted,
?
You said you disconnected the reverser.? Was it disconnected when you got the faint buzzer sound?? Do you have an electronic circuit breakers installed?
?
The buzzers are very sensitive.? They will sound even when you have a "high" resistance.? I haven't done a detailed study as to what will trigger them, but I think they will still make a sound with several thousand ohms in the track circuit.? If you have auto reversers, electronic circuit breakers, or frog juicers, I think these all may cause your buzzer to sound.
?
The bottom line is that a high resistance will not inhibit your train from running.? So there is no need to worry about a faint buzzer sound as long as your train is running fine on the track in question.
?
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC.
Electrical short

 

I have a layout with two ~ 4 x 8 sections(mining & industrial) powered by an NCE power cab.? Some time ago I did some scenery modifications on the mining section (that did not involve track mods).? When I attempted to resume operations, nothing worked including the power cab.
Actions:
?o removed all locos and rolling stock from both sections
?o disconnected the one track link between the two sections
?o disconnected an auto reverser
?o checked spacing on plastic rail joiners around a peco double slip switch
?o then applied buzzer tester to each of test track and industrial section:? no buzzer sound on test track but a very faint buzzer sound on all track in industrial?section (except the section isolated from the double slip switch)
?o routed power cab to test track only and ran a loco with no issues
?o then reconnected power cab to only the industrial section main bus and also reconnected the auto reverser?and successfully ran a loco on all industrial track

Questions: why would I get a faint buzzer sound but still be able to run a loco?

Have yet to tackle the mining section.

Thx in advance for any and all input
Ted
Re: 10 Amp-18Volt dcc : HO Scale Locomotive Motors

 

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To all who have responded, THANK YOU!!!

All the Vendors I have asked this about have told me that the PH10R was too BIG for my use in HO Scale 7
If I had a short I would most likely lose motors / decoders.

There appears to be hope for using PH10R that I have already purchased.

If I might...... Do I need to use a bigger circuit breaker than NCE EB1?
If so, can multiple EB1's be used InLine ( InSeries?? One after the other, same circuit? )

I appreciate all the inputs.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

?loren martell
Aloha, OR 97007
Re: 10 Amp-18Volt dcc : HO Scale Locomotive Motors

 

What do the specs for your devices say? You may find some motors and decoders are plenty happy with an 18V system.

Puckdropper
Re: 10 Amp-18Volt dcc : HO Scale Locomotive Motors

 

What brand/model DCC system is this?? Most systems have a control built into the booster to set the output voltage.? NMRA standard for DCC sets a limit of 22V for DCC and most decoders would be designed to that spec.? In particular Digitrax specs their decoders up to 22V DCC.? The motor is not the issue, it's the decoder itself that has to handle the DCC voltage.
Good Luck, John Moonan
Re: 10 Amp-18Volt dcc : HO Scale Locomotive Motors

 

It may be less of a headache to buy a power supply for the voltage the OP needs. Switching DC power supplies can be acquired relatively cheap from Mouser or Digi-Key.


Rick Jones

The sign at the checkout counter said "8 items or less," so I
changed my name to Less.

On 3/22/2025 9:05 AM, Jim Betz wrote:
Loren,
? You may have a setting in the booster that will allow you to drop the voltage.
To limit the current I suggest you use DCC circuit breakers and set the trip
current low enough to protect the HO scale loco.
? ?- Jim in the PNW
Re: 10 Amp-18Volt dcc : HO Scale Locomotive Motors

 

Loren,
? You may have a setting in the booster that will allow you to drop the voltage.
To limit the current I suggest you use DCC circuit breakers and set the trip
current low enough to protect the HO scale loco.
? ?- Jim in the PNW
Re: 10 Amp-18Volt dcc : HO Scale Locomotive Motors

 

In addition to dialing down the track voltage, it's a very good idea to divide your layout into several power districts and connect each to the booster via an electronic circuit breaker set to a more reasonable for HO current. I'm adding PSXX circuit breakers that I've set to 4 Amps to my RR with its 8 Amp boosters. They come from the factory set for 2 Amps.

Don W
Connecticut, USA

--
Don Weigt
Connecticut
Re: 10 Amp-18Volt dcc : HO Scale Locomotive Motors

 

Loren,
?
I don't think the resistor idea will work.? The average voltage will vary with the speed of the loco.? Be aware that motor speed is not controlled by varying the voltage to the motor.? The motor speed is varyied by changing the width of pulses to the motor.? So the voltage to the decoder, if a resistor was used, would be complex and varying.
?
Also, since the motor speed is not controlled by varying voltage, there is no CV you can change to fix your problem.
?
All is not lost.? If you have a G-scale DCC system you want to use to run HO locomotives, many, if not most, DCC boosters have a way of dialing down the track voltage.? I recommend this course of action.
?
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
Re: 10 Amp-18Volt dcc : HO Scale Locomotive Motors

 

Can't you set the appropriate CV to limit the voltage to the motors to 12 volts? I think that a resistor's effect would depend on the amps drawn by whatever trains were running.?





On Friday, March 21, 2025 at 01:47:37 PM PDT, prandn via groups.io <saltnpepper69@...> wrote:


Is there a way to make a 10 Amp-18Volt dcc system safe for HO Scale Locomotive Motors by
inserting something ( a resistor? ) between the rails & the dcc decoder?
?
I am cross posting to multiple groups in hopes of getting an answer.
?
Thanks for your help & replies.
?
loren martell
Aloha, OR 97007
?
10 Amp-18Volt dcc : HO Scale Locomotive Motors

 

Is there a way to make a 10 Amp-18Volt dcc system safe for HO Scale Locomotive Motors by
inserting something ( a resistor? ) between the rails & the dcc decoder?
?
I am cross posting to multiple groups in hopes of getting an answer.
?
Thanks for your help & replies.
?
loren martell
Aloha, OR 97007
?
Wiring For DCC Website Update

 

?
Crossovers are probably the most common way modelers choose to reverse the direction of travel of their trains.? I think they do this without knowing they are creating a reversing section and may not know anything about wiring reversing sections.
?
So, to the introduction on reversing, I have added a few images and some discussion sensitizing modelers to reversing when building crossovers.? Follow the link at:
?
?
The reversing crossover discussion is in the introduction immediately after the train length discussion; which is also important to crossovers as they tend to be short compared to train length.
?
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
Re: Short in my crossover

 

I think I figured it out, I had a bad frog juicer. ?I switched it out for a different one and it works. ?Thank you for all your help. ?I really do appreciate it
?
?
Kurt
Re: Short in my crossover

 

We are getting closer! ?Double check the trip amperage on the frogs juicers. ?It needs to be lower than the trip amperage of your booster. ?Otherwise the booster shorts before the frog juicers can function as desired.

Get
?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Kurt Geitzenauer via groups.io <kgeitzenauer@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2025 4:41 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Short in my crossover
?
I have 2 reverse loops but they are isolated with plastic joiners, and I have them on NCE AR 10 reverse loop circuits?

Kurt

On Mar 9, 2025, at 1:00?PM, Jim Zarnick via groups.io <jameszarnick@...> wrote:

?

Isolate the problem to the frogs by disconnecting them from the frog juicers.? Do you still have a short?

?

If so, do you have a reverse loop in this setup?? That is, doesn’t your track work allow the train to reverse direction of travel simply by going forward and coming back out of the loop?

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Kurt Geitzenauer via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2025 2:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Short in my crossover

?

So I think I isolated it to the frogs that is causing the short. ?I have tried rewiring each frog in the crossover and it still shorts it out depending on the the turnout position. ?So now what?


Get

Re: Short in my crossover

 

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I have 2 reverse loops but they are isolated with plastic joiners, and I have them on NCE AR 10 reverse loop circuits?

Kurt

On Mar 9, 2025, at 1:00?PM, Jim Zarnick via groups.io <jameszarnick@...> wrote:

?

Isolate the problem to the frogs by disconnecting them from the frog juicers.? Do you still have a short?

?

If so, do you have a reverse loop in this setup?? That is, doesn’t your track work allow the train to reverse direction of travel simply by going forward and coming back out of the loop?

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Kurt Geitzenauer via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2025 2:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Short in my crossover

?

So I think I isolated it to the frogs that is causing the short. ?I have tried rewiring each frog in the crossover and it still shorts it out depending on the the turnout position. ?So now what?
Re: Short in my crossover

 

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I disconnected both juicers and no short

Kurt

Could the frog juicer be bad?

On Mar 9, 2025, at 1:00?PM, Jim Zarnick via groups.io <jameszarnick@...> wrote:

?

Isolate the problem to the frogs by disconnecting them from the frog juicers.? Do you still have a short?

?

If so, do you have a reverse loop in this setup?? That is, doesn’t your track work allow the train to reverse direction of travel simply by going forward and coming back out of the loop?

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Kurt Geitzenauer via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2025 2:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Short in my crossover

?

So I think I isolated it to the frogs that is causing the short. ?I have tried rewiring each frog in the crossover and it still shorts it out depending on the the turnout position. ?So now what?
Re: Short in my crossover

 

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Isolate the problem to the frogs by disconnecting them from the frog juicers.? Do you still have a short?

?

If so, do you have a reverse loop in this setup?? That is, doesn’t your track work allow the train to reverse direction of travel simply by going forward and coming back out of the loop?

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Kurt Geitzenauer via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2025 2:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Short in my crossover

?

So I think I isolated it to the frogs that is causing the short. ?I have tried rewiring each frog in the crossover and it still shorts it out depending on the the turnout position. ?So now what?
Re: Short in my crossover

 

So I think I isolated it to the frogs that is causing the short. ?I have tried rewiring each frog in the crossover and it still shorts it out depending on the the turnout position. ?So now what?
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