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Re: power district gaps and other questions.
Alan, Here is Ed's? answer. So I think I've got it now. Needs to be a booster data cable connecting the SB5 to the DB5, plus the ground wire between them. Booster data cables in various lengths up to 30 feet are available from Tony's. John You are confusing track power, cab controls, and booster data cables. Three very different items. The Sb5 is a command station. It is a cab bus output for cabs and UTP. It has a control bus booster data output for additional boosters, and it has a 5 amp track power output. ? A DB5 is only a track power booster. It requires a control bus booster data cable input from a command statin or another booster. The output goes to track power. These connections have nothing to do with cabs/UTP. ? ? Ed Wilson - Technical Support Engineer
On Sunday, February 2, 2025 at 06:42:39 AM PST, Allan AE2V <bigboy@...> wrote:
John,
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You got me on this one.? I don't have any knowledge of the DB5 and I haven't seen an SB5 up close and in person.? Everyone around here either has a Power Cab without expanding it or a Pro Cab system.
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I don't see the DB5 on NCE's website.? It may be discontinued.? If you don't have your documentation for it, NCE can probably provide it.
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I'd ask your question of NCE.? NCE's support is support@....? Let me know what you find out.
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Allan
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Re: DCC Track Voltage
***THX Jerry !?? I only have one meter, never thought of the rotary switch to check more districts ! Bill*-*
On Sunday, February 9, 2025 at 10:02:06 AM EST, Jerry Michels via groups.io <gjmichels53@...> wrote:
I don't want to belabor the point.? But I am finding RampMeters run in the $100-$130 range.? That doesn't seem excessive when a DCC/Sound locomotive costs $250-$400.? It is priorities.? Do you prefer to add the 30th locomotive to your railroad or buy a precision device that measures power, especially amps?? I mention this because a lot of posts make the RampMeter sound terribly expensive when I don't believe it is the case. I agree that buying a lot of RampMeters can get expensive, but for the small layout, one RampMeter tied into a rotary switch would allow a person to monitor many power districts. Jerry Michels |
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Re: DCC Track Voltage
开云体育
No problem Morgan, my question was not personal, just curious.. What kind of problem needs a RRampMeter to solve? Theo DCC since 2008 and computer controlled traffic . |
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Re: DCC Track Voltage
I don't want to belabor the point. But I am finding RampMeters run in the $100-$130 range. That doesn't seem excessive when a DCC/Sound locomotive costs $250-$400. It is priorities. Do you prefer to add the 30th locomotive to your railroad or buy a precision device that measures power, especially amps? I mention this because a lot of posts make the RampMeter sound terribly expensive when I don't believe it is the case. I agree that buying a lot of RampMeters can get expensive, but for the small layout, one RampMeter tied into a rotary switch would allow a person to monitor many power districts. Jerry Michels
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Re: DCC Track Voltage
TheoVR: I thought I had disclosed that I do not own a RRampMeter. They are too expensive. What I am saying though - is - that for a club or large layout - they usually have enough money to buy what they need, be it one RRampMeter or more. And for them, that is a good purchase.
Since I don't own one, I can't say what they can do best, just that it's known they are more accurate than a regular multimeter.
What I do have and use is 2 HF el cheapos and 2 higher quality TRMS meters. These are more than I need. And probably about what any modeler can want/need. The HF's are free or $7. The other meters I own are $25 and $30. And JoeF's article in MRH mentions several others that are cheaper.
And all I can honestly say for sure. Is that I have found my 4 meters to be more than sufficient for my needs.
And would probably be the same for a majority of modelers. Especially if you think $80+ (I don't have exact cost, but I recall they can go to $100) is too much for the RRampMeter.
Again, the only thing that is commonly mentioned is that the differences are in accuracy.
And back to personal use. When I measure my track. And the meters show anywhere from 14.5v to 15v, I am satisfied. I don't need the accuracy that tells me I have 14.999v.
OTOH. The RRampMeter does give amps. And there aren't any multimeters that can measure amps for DCC. And that is something not easy to measure.
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952. |
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Re: DCC Track Voltage
开云体育
Regards, Theo --? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Greetings from the heath in the north of Belgium? |
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Re: DCC Track Voltage
JerryM: You verify what I'm saying. That a large club that has the financial resources can afford the RRampMeters, that's the thing to do.
And I repeat that the RRampMeter is a great tool. 'IF you can afford it'.
For those like me, are frugal, and don't 'need' that accuracy, the normal TRMS is an acceptable alternative. Not as accurate. But is more feasible.
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952. |
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Re: DCC Track Voltage
This is an interesting thread. For a large layout such as the Amarillo Railroad Museum, we have found the panel-mounted Ramp Meter to be very useful. We have eight power supplies (by that I mean the DCS and DBs). Each one has a separate Ramp Meter, so the track voltage and amperage can be monitored for the whole layout. I realize that this would be overkill for a small to medium-sized layout. The amperage output is the most important feature for us. During open houses, members tend to get too many locomotives in one power district. If there is a derailment, it is often not possible to get trains running again because the in-rush current for sound decoders. Most of our members don't know much about electronics, and don't understand that the system can be overwhelmed. Monitoring power consumption has cut down on this problem, and of course the meters are great for troubleshooting. Jerry Michels
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Re: DCC Track Voltage
That's been the discussion for ages. Is a RRampMeter necessary? If you can afford it, by all means, buy one.
But if that meter sounds expensive, then the HF meter or 2 or 3 are going to be sufficient.
As for 15v, that's the ideal. But 14.4v or 14.7v is not going to hurt anything.
And when I measure volts, whether with the HF or a TRMS meter, if the track measures 14.4v anywhere up to 15v - that's all I need to know. The world won't come to an end if it's not 15v at every place I measure.
Any difference can be attributed to the variance in the meters.
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952. |
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Re: DCC Track Voltage
While a RRAmpmeter is a great tool, I find a digital multimeter much more useful.? However, you need to make sure it reads true RMS voltage and has a high enough frequency response to work with DCC signals.? What I've been using is a OWON B41T+ meter that I bought from Amazon for about $80.? Had it for several years now and it is definitely worh the price.? It gives me accurate DCC reading but does much more in working on layout and electronics in general.? Most general purpose multimeters, even Fluke, don't have the frequency response to work with DCC.? I have 4 different multimeters that I've bought over the years and the OWON is the only one that works for DCC.
Good Luck, John Moonan |
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Re: DCC Track Voltage
Hi Len,
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You want your HO track voltage to be about 14 - 14.4V.
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Definitely use an RRampmeter to measure the track voltage.? DCC voltages usually cannot be read accurately with a meter that was not specifically designed with DCC in mind.
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Also measure it with a load on the track.? If you measure it without a load, it will read higher.? I'm guessing you got 16.5V with no load on your booster or not much of one.
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The manufacturer of your decoder in your locomotive will tell you the maximum track voltage it take without damage.? Sometimes this can be over 20V.? Since you are reading under 19V, go ahead and use a locomotive as a load to measure your booster voltage.? HO decoders can take take this at least long enough for you to make a measurement.
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Besides the obvious that the decoder's electronics cannot take "high" voltages, higher voltages can overheat decoders.? So if you are getting 16.5V with a locomotive load, review your SB5 documentation and see if it can be dialed down a bit.
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Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC |
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DCC Track Voltage
This question is probably like asking how long is a piece of string!
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What is the optimum/maximum voltage for operating DCC and how do you measure it? I am running a NCE system and at small load (0.35 Amps) the SB5 output I have 16.5 V using the RRAmpmeter and 17,7 V using my Snap On multimeter.?
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What are the constraints/considerations?
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Thanks
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Len |
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Re: snubbers
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On Feb 5, 2025, at 12:37?PM, Allan AE2V <bigboy@...> wrote:
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Re: Feeder wiring
开云体育3CURLY3 inquires: ? “Have question on feeder wiring. Will send photo to you in the Pictures folder.? Is this ok to have bare wire at bend touching side of track or should the bend still have the insulation touching.” ? Not a problem if the bare feeder isn’t touching something conductive such as wire screen, or worse, other wires on the layout. ? In fact, so folks will remove the insulation from where it touches the rail all the way down into the roadbed.? Wire that has been stripped is much easier to hide than wire still covered in insulation.? A large layout I worked on used wires stripped from phone cable as feeders to the track.? A wire went to every section of rail, rail joiners were not trusted to conduct electricity, only for mechanical alignment.? Phone wire sized feeders were up to 24” long (due to necessity) between track bus and rail and we never had any problems. ? Best regards, ? Steve ? Steve Haas Snoqualmie, WA ? |
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