Re: Dual frog juicer and esu command station
Thanks William. The PSX-AR is what I used that ultimately worked so I've installed it. More than twice the $ though. I still need an auto-reverser for a reverse loop so hoping to get the frog juicer to work. Tam Valley says to try upping the max output on the Command Station. I'll try that. He replied right away on a Sunday, awesome support.
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Re: Dual frog juicer and esu command station
David, this is what I use when I need a reverser and circuit breaker. I wire it directly to the command center (or booster) and thus by-pass the other PSXs in line:
William Waithe, Toronto ON Canada
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Dual frog juicer and esu command station
Hi
I've spent hours and hours exploring the variables on this and finally figured it out (at 4 am this morning). I'm using a tam valley dual frog juicer to switch polarity on a Peco crossing. Worked on a testbed, not when placed in final configuration on the layout. Sent it back to Tam Valley and he says it checked out. Worked on testbed, not on layout. You can imagine the words spoken. Hooked up a DCC specialties PSX and it worked... Finally figured out that I was using a SPROG 3 on the testbed and ESU Command Station on the layout. I think the Command Station battles with the Frog Juicer on the short and gives up.?
I'll run this by Duncan at Tam Valley, but interested if anyone has a solution for this?
I'd just use the PSX board, but I need an autoreverser as well...
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Wiring for DCC website Update - Setting Electronic Circuit Breakers
All,
I added another section to my Wiring for DCC website on the topic of setting current and time delay trip points for boosters and electronic circuit breakers.
It is located at: https:/WiringForDCC.com/track_2.htm#a56 or simply to to my website's site map and look under "Circuit Breakers".??
Allan Gartner
WiringForDCC.com
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Locked
Scam Emails NOT from the Wiring for DCC Q & A; especially me
All,
Recently, one of our moderators received an email that claimed to be from me directly.? I and my friends occasionally get similar emails.
Whether it be me, this forum, or any of your friends, scammers are sending almost convincing emails claiming to be from someone you know.? You need to be skeptical of just about every email you receive.? Look at the heading.? If the email address seems fishy, it probably is.
As far as from me, I will only email you directly if I need to send you something that is not appropriate for everyone else on the forum.? If I do this, it will probably be a day or two within a posting you made.? I will not email you out of the blue.??
Sorry, this is the world we live in.
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
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Allen Thanks for your reply. I played around and accessed the groups' web page, amazing source of information and I've bookmarked the site. I've read in prior posts that you?have a book coming out - I can hardly wait!!! I have an?electronics background but I still have difficulty grasping some of?the things/ideas that are brought up. One of these days I need to get off my lazy butt and take what I've been planning in my head and make it reality.? Again thank you and everyone else that contributes information to this group.? Regards Jon H
On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 8:47?AM Allan AE2V < bigboy@...> wrote: Jon,
Just go to the group's website, which you obviously have already found, and scroll down the left side.? You will see a link for files and another for photos.? Some of the photos and files are people asking questions and others are people providing support.
If you want photos with an accompanying information on all things DCC, see my website, "Wiring for DCC" at .? If you want something in your hands, I believe my book will be out sometime during the summer.
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
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Jon,
Just go to the group's website, which you obviously have already found, and scroll down the left side.? You will see a link for files and another for photos.? Some of the photos and files are people asking questions and others are people providing support.
If you want photos with an accompanying information on all things DCC, see my website, "Wiring for DCC" at .? If you want something in your hands, I believe my book will be out sometime during the summer.
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
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Hello everyone First time poster, I've been lurking/learning about DCC as I don't have a layout - as yet. I keep hearing in this group and others about files being saved in "the file section", how can I access the file section, can someone provide a link please? You all are a great bunch of people helping the less DCC intelligent?individuals like myself who have a lot of questions. Thank you in advance for any information you may provide.
Regards to all and keep up the great information. Jon H
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Re: Steamer stalls on exiting one PSXXAR boundary out of 4 in a figure eight configuration
There are 2 things I would recommend you check, Jeremy.? First, make sure the PSX that is between the PSX-AR devices has had it's timing adjusted as recommended in the PSX-AR manual, so it waits and allows the PSX-AR to see the phase difference and do its job before it decides that there's a short and shuts down.??
If you have already done the above, then check the PSX-AR carefully at the solder joints on the small leads of Q1-Q8.? Look for a cracked solder joint or one that looks as if it did not wet properly.? Also look for damaged components between those transistors, as I experienced a damaged diode (part?1N4148)?that once carefully replaced, fixed a problem similar to what you are experiencing.? It's very tricky soldering on a board like that, so it might require replacement of the board.? Good luck!
John Swanson
? ?
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Re: Daisy chaining a PSXX-AR to PSX-AR already chained to PSX?
Dennis,
? Boosters provide power.? Breakers are used to divide up your layout into smaller pieces of
"operationally separated districts" - in order to limit the number of times that someone causing a
short affects others.? Booster districts will power large areas of the layout.? Breaker districts
smaller, use defined, segments.
? Most layouts have a rule (practice) that -all- track is protected by DCC circuit breakers - and
attempt to never have the breaker in the booster trip.? The breaker in the booster is there to
prevent the booster from self-destructing due to heat.? The DCC circuit breakers keep those
user caused shorts from 'getting to the booster'.
? Finally, many layouts use "detection" where they want a section of track, an interlocking, etc.
to be able to be 'sensed' separately ... for signaling or simply to light up an LED on a panel
to let you know a track is occupied.? The result of this part (detection) is that we often end up
with just as many "blocks" in DCC as we had in DC.? And, if you are doing signaling or?
train automation, even more blocks than with DC.
? Does this help/answer your question?? If it does not then perhaps we can set up a time
for you and I to talk on the phone?? (This offer is available to others as well.)
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - Jim in the PNW
? Does this make sense?
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Steamer stalls on exiting one PSXXAR boundary out of 4 in a figure eight configuration
I assume this may be because of the "asymmetrical" nature of steamers with one set of pickups in the loco and the second in the tender. ? The 2rail O Scale Weaver 0-6-0 only fails at one boundary after entering and exiting all other boundaries successfully, When it fails it's not obvious that either PSXXAR or entered PSX shorts (LEDs remain in normal config) and the loco sound stops (it has a keep alive). ?A Weaver 4-6-2 and diesels do not fail at any boundary. ?An earlier topic suggested that one wheel might touch both sides of a gaped rail - I will relook at this. ?Any other suggestions? Background: - Figure 8 with PSXXAR at one end, PSXAR at the other with a PSX protected block in between.
- Both PSXAR inputs connected to PSX input and NCE SB5 booster.
- all boundaries double gapped ?with 3/4" stagger as recommended by PSX
- turnouts are well beyond gaps
- loco wheels and track all recently cleaned
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Re: Basic DCC Wiring Diagram?
Mark¡¯s information is always helpful. But the diagram does not show up in the ¡°digest¡± version of messages. ?It is not attached to your message at the w4dccqa.io site either. ?Mark¡¯s web site is still up, but there is so much there that finding the diagram you reference is almost impossible. ?Do you have a link to the diagram? ?If so, please post it here on the group.
Thanks,
Rob
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Re: Daisy chaining a PSXX-AR to PSX-AR already chained to PSX?
Juergen,
? Your wire gauge seems to be fine for both your buses and feeders.? The length of run
of a section of wire (bus or feeder) can, but usually doesn't, cause problems.
? It is always "best practice" to protect all power devices (command station with booster or
just boosters) with a DCC circuit breaker.? This not only protects those devices from
shorts - it also allows you to isolate one part of your?layout from the rest of the layout -
which means that persons running in one part will not?be affected by persons in other
parts.? Almost all shorts are related to either a user?error (running a turnout) or a derailment.
? The classic mistake that I've seen on many layouts is where there is a town with?
industries and running behind it - less than 2 feet away - is "the main line" that doesn't
even go into/thru the town.? And the two sections of track are in the same booster/breaker
district.? Someone is working in the town, runs a switch, and the train running on the
main back behind the town stops.? I have even wired layouts in such a way that all of the
main was just one breaker district - and then used multiple breakers to isolate all of
the other tracks (yards, industries, towns) and it worked very well.? On a couple of
layouts I've seen where the main and the arrival/departure tracks in the yard are
isolated from the classification tracks and that works very well.
? Determining your breaker districts is all about anticipating/supporting how the layout
will be used.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - Jim in the PNW
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Re: Daisy chaining a PSXX-AR to PSX-AR already chained to PSX?
Hello all,
? I'm just getting back into model railroading and a question. I read up on DCC and I thought you did not need separate power districts, like you did with DC. Or is this nothing more than having enough power for large layouts?
Thanks, Dennis
Dennis Caffi
dennis.caffi@...
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Re: Daisy chaining a PSXX-AR to PSX-AR already chained to PSX?
That is what I was thinking thanks . 14awg main bus 22awg track feeders. I am thinking of getting rid of the pm74s & reconect my main bus wire back to 1 solid wire. The only reason we started to make districs is. We were running a rain down from the upper rail layout to the bottom layout when we had no train control emergency stop then the db150 camand station shorted out we went through the process to try and find the short & there was no short on the layout it was in the db150 its self? cause we took it of the layout & hooked it up to a single piece of track and it still was showing a short digitrax said you must have had a voltage spike sent back to the db150 and fried the 10amp rasistor in the booster there for it is hoopered that's how it all started. All 12 volts were sent back to the db150 witch fried the 10 amp resistor. On the camand station? and booster. So now we have a db210 booster & a dcs 210+ camand station.? Witch is connected to a av1 meter. But now it is spring time to go back to work on the gardening & lawns see ya in the winter by for now thanks?
On Wed, Mar 27, 2024, 3:15 PM Jim Betz, < jimbetz@...> wrote: Juergen,
? I know you are not going to like this response ...
? I stopped using any Digitrax "power management devices" such as the PM42s and PM74s a long
time ago.? I just don't like how they seem to result in 'problems'.? They are fine for very simple
layouts but as soon as you start adding more power districts (booster or breaker) - it seems to me -
you start having trouble getting it all working.
? This statement - "I should mention that although there is power in ds2&3 it is sporadic not on
every rail witch is strang because it was all working befor.when it was a singl bus wires. Hm.o.k"
makes me think "wiring problems".? You have not mentioned wire gauge - if the wires are too
small for the length they run it can produce problems like you are describing ... personally, I
always use #14 or larger for all "bus runs".??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - Jim in the PNW??
??
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Re: Daisy chaining a PSXX-AR to PSX-AR already chained to PSX?
Juergen,
? I know you are not going to like this response ...
? I stopped using any Digitrax "power management devices" such as the PM42s and PM74s a long
time ago.? I just don't like how they seem to result in 'problems'.? They are fine for very simple
layouts but as soon as you start adding more power districts (booster or breaker) - it seems to me -
you start having trouble getting it all working.
? This statement - "I should mention that although there is power in ds2&3 it is sporadic not on
every rail witch is strang because it was all working befor.when it was a singl bus wires. Hm.o.k"
makes me think "wiring problems".? You have not mentioned wire gauge - if the wires are too
small for the length they run it can produce problems like you are describing ... personally, I
always use #14 or larger for all "bus runs".??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - Jim in the PNW??
??
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Re: Basic DCC Wiring Diagram?
John Moonan/all,
? Yes.? Your diagram is exactly what I was looking for - thank you for posting this.? Now if we can
just get people who are wiring their layouts - or having trouble - to see it and understand it!? *G*
? I would add some method of showing where the double gaps are ... because that is a very
common mistake/misunderstanding.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- Jim in the PNW
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Re: Daisy chaining a PSXX-AR to PSX-AR already chained to PSX?
Hi again.? Just to let you know I did what you suggested. And we found a lot more strangthings. Like power to sum rails but not other rail in the same ds. When it was all working befor we brok up the main bus wires. Also the first pm74 has no lt1 lights and is still clicken after recuting the gaps and unplugging all the feeder wires disconnected on ds1 bus wire from the lower pm74. ds2&3 both have power to the rails and with the quarter trick you get a short.? but no power in ds1 on both pm74s? ? I should mention that although there is power in ds2&3 it is sporadic not on every rail witch is strang because it was all working befor.when it was a singl bus wires. Hm.o.k??
On Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 2:37 PM Jim Betz, < jimbetz@...> wrote: Juergen,
? Your situation is - almost always - caused by one or more "wiring errors".? Think about your wiring
this way?
? Every booster district is separated from all other booster districts by double gaps ... everywhere.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- and -
? Every breaker district is separated from all other breaker districts by double gaps ... everywhere.
? The most common wiring errors are either the double gaps aren't working (unlikely but not?
unheard of) or there are one of more sections of track bus that have feeders that cross booster
or breaker districts (the same track power bus is wired to track on more than one booster/breaker
district).
? "Divide and Conquer".
? The best way to find these is to first find out 'what's really happening' ... by cutting power (removing
the connections at a terminal block?) to all of the districts and then connecting them back up One At A
Time - all the while testing what track is/isn't powered (RRamp meter, light bulb, old style meter).
After you have figured out which track blocks are connected when they shouldn't be -then- go under
the layout and figure out where the incorrect wiring is.?
? Somewhere you have two (more?) districts connected to each other.
? Often the layout owner won't even know this wiring problem has happened - because trains will Run
fine ... until?there is a short (somebody runs a turnout or a derailment) and then trains in more than one
district?will stop/come back alive after the short is cleared.
? The whole purpose of having booster/breaker districts is to isolate others from the shorts that you
experience - as much as possible.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- Jim in the PNW
P.S. If you live in the PNW contact me - off list - and I'll see if we can set up a time for me to visit.
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Re: Basic DCC Wiring Diagram?
I have posted a wiring Diagram by Mark Gurries that he had on his web site a long time ago.? It shows wiring for main bus and how to wire sub bus'.
See attachment if allowed.
Wil
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Re: Basic DCC Wiring Diagram?
Several years ago I drew up a basic DCC block diagram for upgrading a layout for DCC.? Shows relationship between the Command Station, Boosters, Circuit Breakers, etc.? I've up loaded it to a folder in the files section "DCC Block Diagram".? Is this what you are looking for?
Diagram shows 3 boosters but the number required depends on the size of the layout and the number of engines you are trying to run at one time.? This design has been installed on a large museum layout that at this time is using a single Digitrax DCS240 Command Station that can handle up to 8 amps.? We also has 11 normal blocks, 2 auto-reversing blocks and one accessory block for a total of 12 Digital Specialties PSX Circuit Breakers and 2 Digital Specialties PSX-AR Circuit Breaker/Reversers.? We have a singe UR93 for Digitrax duplex throttles and a single Raspberry Pi 4 providing WiFi for cell phone throttles.? Power for the Command Station is a Mean Well 15 VDC 10 Amp power supply.
Good Luck, John Moonan
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Swanny
Jim Betz