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Re: Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
My digests' messages in this thread are all in the standard, easy to read font. I don't see any bold or cursive characters. Maybe the messages are processed somehow as put into the digests? Anyway, it's odd that some of us see the usual fonts and others see bold or cursive fonts instead. Does anybody have a good explanation for that?
Don W
-- Don Weigt Connecticut
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Re: Diode Across a Coil Question - DEC 2023 Model RR Article by Allan Gartner
When you shut off power to a coil the coil has stored energy. The energy will cause the voltage to rise at the coil terminals until the energy is dissipated. The reverse diode across the coil will dissipate that energy and insure that no more than a fraction of a volt will be crated by the coil. The high coil voltage can destroy both transistors and switch contacts.
A relay consists of a coil that creates a magnetic field that causes the relay contacts to change position.
If the relay has polarity marked on it then it may already has a diode internally. Find and read the specifications for the relay.
Ken Harstine
413-250-8298
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Re: Diode Across a Coil Question - DEC 2023 Model RR Article by Allan Gartner
Thank you.
--
Dave
Portland, OR
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Re: Diode Across a Coil Question - DEC 2023 Model RR Article by Allan Gartner
On 2023-11-15 10:49 p.m., Dave Hamernik
wrote:
Hi
I have a limited knowledge of electric circuit design.? In the
December Model RR magazine, Mr. Gartner discusses various circuits
and electrical components.? In one circuit, he discusses the
requirement of a diode across a coil to safeguard a component
(PSXX) within the circuit (see link).? I don't doubt that the
diode is needed but I would like to know how the PSXX would be
damaged if the diode was not there.? What would cause the damage?
I'm looking for more explanation so I can better understand how
the circuit works.
/g/w4dccqa/files/Diode%20across%20coil.pdf
When the current is cut off the coil will create a large reverse
voltage spike, which can damage the transistor driving it. The
diode provides a route directly between to the two ends of the
coil allowing that energy to return to its source without having
to pass through other circuit components.
--
Michael Rozeboom
Team Amiga
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Re: Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
Don, see my last post. I am sure I have a minor wiring issue. It seems likeI may have connected the normal mainline section to a section of a reverse loop. The wiring can get confusing under a table with all of those "drops".
I will have to spend some time to sort this out.?
Thanks...........George.
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Diode Across a Coil Question - DEC 2023 Model RR Article by Allan Gartner
Hi I have a limited knowledge of electric circuit design.? In the December Model RR magazine, Mr. Gartner discusses various circuits and electrical components.? In one circuit, he discusses the requirement of a diode across a coil to safeguard a component (PSXX) within the circuit (see link).? I don't doubt that the diode is needed but I would like to know how the PSXX would be damaged if the diode was not there.? What would cause the damage? I'm looking for more explanation so I can better understand how the circuit works. /g/w4dccqa/files/Diode%20across%20coil.pdfThank you. -- Dave Portland, OR
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Re: Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
That wasn’t the issue it was hard to read it was in cursive. Just hard to e
Read it
Don Russell
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Nov 15, 2023, at 1:46 PM, Phil Friday <pfridays49@...> wrote:
?Nothing to do with DCC but what's wrong with a bold font?????
On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 10:04?AM Don Russell <drussell185@...> wrote:
Me to past it buy
Don Russell
On Nov 15, 2023, at 9:34 AM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:
?
Just to let you know: I will not read messages in this font, as it is too much trouble.
Wouter
On Wed, 15 Nov 2023, 11:07 georgebriscoe10, <georgebriscoe@...> wrote:
Hi All,
We can put a halt to this post for a little while. I only completed this loop of track recently and had only run locos in one direction. During my experimentation I ran the locos in a reverse direction and discovered another issue which may be the cause for the hesitation.
I will now troubleshoot this issue and see if I can find the problem.
Thanks...........George.
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Re: Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
Nothing to do with DCC but what's wrong with a bold font?????
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 10:04?AM Don Russell <drussell185@...> wrote:
Me to past it buy
Don Russell
On Nov 15, 2023, at 9:34 AM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:
?
Just to let you know: I will not read messages in this font, as it is too much trouble.
Wouter
On Wed, 15 Nov 2023, 11:07 georgebriscoe10, <georgebriscoe@...> wrote:
Hi All,
We can put a halt to this post for a little while. I only completed this loop of track recently and had only run locos in one direction. During my experimentation I ran the locos in a reverse direction and discovered another issue which may be the cause for the hesitation.
I will now troubleshoot this issue and see if I can find the problem.
Thanks...........George.
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Re: Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
Me to past it buy Don Russell
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Nov 15, 2023, at 9:34 AM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:
? Just to let you know: I will not read messages in this font, as it is too much trouble.
Wouter
Hi All,
We can put a halt to this post for a little while. I only completed this loop of track recently and had only run locos in one direction. During my experimentation I ran the locos in a reverse direction and discovered another issue which may be the cause for
the hesitation.
I will now troubleshoot this issue and see if I can find the problem.
Thanks...........George.
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Locked
Re: Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
Just to let you know: I will not read messages in this font, as it is too much trouble.
Wouter
Hi All,
We can put a halt to this post for a little while. I only completed this loop of track recently and had only run locos in one direction. During my experimentation I ran the locos in a reverse direction and discovered another issue which may be the cause for
the hesitation.
I will now troubleshoot this issue and see if I can find the problem.
Thanks...........George.
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Locked
Re: Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
Hi All,
We can put a halt to this post for a little while. I only completed this loop of track recently and had only run locos in one direction. During my experimentation I ran the locos in a reverse direction and discovered another issue which may be the cause for
the hesitation.
I will now troubleshoot this issue and see if I can find the problem.
Thanks...........George.
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Re: Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
Frog juicers inside an AR section can be problematic. Is the frog juicer(s) being powered from the AR section track
or directly from a fixed polarity booster? Can all the powered locos fit between the entrance and/or exit of the AT section and the location of the frog juicer? (Both sides away from the juicer )
I would lower the trip point of the frog juicer to be below the trip point of the AR section controller with the frog juicer powered from the fixed polarity booster.
DonV
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Re: Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
On the four engine have you checked the spacing on the wheels
I had an engine that short circuit on a turnout with a powered frog and it was the wheel out of alignment?
--
Tom Grassi
trgrassijr@...
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Re: Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
Hey George I can’t tell what you’re saying because of the font you used. ?
I read 99% of emails on my smart phone and the text is very hard to read on small screen.?
I hope to be able to read when I get to my laptop
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Nov 13, 2023, at 9:42 PM, georgebriscoe10 <georgebriscoe@...> wrote:
?
Thanks Group. Some interesting suggestions to explore.?
As to some of the suggestions, the locos are not metal. Just Atlas n scale models with decoders I installed and MT couplers. I think they are NCE decoders.
The two reverse loops are quite some distance apart. No chance of the consist crossing both at once. I have had the situation where a second train enters the reverse loop while another is in the loop. In this instance it simply shuts down until I move one of
the trains out of the reverse loop.
This consist is not elephant style although I doubt that is an issue with these particular locos.
The FrogAR's are protected by a PSX. I increased the trip point current on the PSX as suggested in the DCC Specialities documentation but it still hesitates.
I think my next move is to break down the consist one loco at a time and see if the hestitation persists. If it does it would suggest a loco issue, I think.
Thanks again. I will report back after some experimentation............George.?
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Re: Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
Thanks Group. Some interesting suggestions to explore.?
As to some of the suggestions, the locos are not metal. Just Atlas n scale models with decoders I installed and MT couplers. I think they are NCE decoders.
The two reverse loops are quite some distance apart. No chance of the consist crossing both at once. I have had the situation where a second train enters the reverse loop while another is in the loop. In this instance it simply shuts down until I move one of
the trains out of the reverse loop.
This consist is not elephant style although I doubt that is an issue with these particular locos.
The FrogAR's are protected by a PSX. I increased the trip point current on the PSX as suggested in the DCC Specialities documentation but it still hesitates.
I think my next move is to break down the consist one loco at a time and see if the hestitation persists. If it does it would suggest a loco issue, I think.
Thanks again. I will report back after some experimentation............George.?
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Re: Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
George,
? Please do a test for whether or not the speed of the 4-unit consist thru the reverser
makes a difference.? It may change how long the hesitation is (or not) ... I'm interested
in whether or not the hesitation 'goes away' (doesn't happen) if you slow the consist
down or speed it up.
? I assume you've checked this with 'just the 4-unit consist' and without any other
cars/trains in the reversing section.? The reason why I mention this is because one
way to think about an auto-reverser is with respect to its "trip point" ("breaking
current").
? I have not used the FrogAR's.? I use the PSX-ARs exclusively.? I have not experienced
these 'hesitations' on my layout.? A friend, who also uses the PSX-ARs, sees the same
hesitation ... but only where he has two reversing sections that are back-to-back (the
track on both sides of the double-gaps is protected by a PSX-AR).? In his case he
could not fix the problem by changing the current limit ("break point") so that they
had different trip points.? Which, IIRC, was what DCC Specialties recommended.
IIRC his 'solution' was to simply let the hesitation happen ... because his situation
was in a staging approach track.
??
? Question - how long is your reversing section?? Is it possible that you have more
than one FrogAR being in contact with the wheels of the 4-unit consist at the same
time where that doesn't happen with the 2-unit?
? DCC Specialties used to be a sub-company of Tony's Trains.? I don't know if it still
is or not.? I seem to remember that the way to contact them was thru Tony's.? It's
been a long time since I've dealt with Tony's for technical information - they used to
be pretty good and if questions like yours came up and they didn't know the?
answer they would forward the question to DCC Specialties.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- Jim in the PNW
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Re: Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
George,
DCC Specialties can be reached through Tony's Train Exchange.
If two locos work, but four do not make me wonder how long is your reversing section?? It must be longer than your longest trains of powered units.? In this case, it sounds like your reversing section is shorter than four locomotives.??
Allan
Wiring for DCC
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Re: Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
I wonder if your locos have metal frames with metal couplers that are making electrical contact with the frames.? Depending? on your consist, is it always the same - maybe just one loco can be the problem.? If you run them elephant style no problem but if you have them front to back this could arise as the problem.
Dale Gloer
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Reverse Loop Auto Reversers
Dear All,
Further to my recent post regarding reverse loops, I now have another question regarding auto reversers. I have two reverse loops controlled by DCC Specialities FrogAR's. I would have written to DCC Specialities but it seems they are not contactable. The FrogAR's seem to work very well except for one situation. The particular situation is with a four loco consist. Single locos and double consists seem to pass through the reverse loop gaps without a glitch but the four loco consist hesitates over most of the gaps. They don't stop but they do obviously hesitate. Not the end of the world but it would be nice to know if something I can do/change that will prevent tis hesitation.
Thanks in advance........................George.
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Re: Do sub busses need snubbers as well?
Thanks Steve.? I had read that document on more than one occasion and forgot about that note regarding the snubbers on the OD bus.? Thanks for bring that to my attention again!
Mike
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Ken Harstine
Phil Friday
Jim Betz
Dale Gloer