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Re: DCC system resets when accelerating locomotives
It might be other reasons, but this as happened on our museum layout a number of times, and it has always been too many sound-equipped locomotives and/or lighted cars in the same block. Too much amperage draw which looks to the system like a short. Lighted passenger cars are often overlooked as a sink I agree with Don, try running a train with a single locomotive through the section, stop and then start, then add a locomotive, and another, and so on, yu should reach a maximum that the system can take. Jerry Michels
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Re: Seeking reversing section input
Pasting a picture doesn't work, so look here?/g/w4dccqa/photo/268225/3304600?p=Created%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0?to see the connections to eliminate.
Tim |
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Re: Seeking reversing section input
If you eliminate these connections to the main track
Then your situation will be greatly simplified. Your layout is then a simple oval with the branch line on the tail of a wye to Dubols. Make the branch from Dubols to the turnout on the lower left the reversing section. It's a long reversing section, but there's only one entrance to it (which is good). I would control it with a DPDT relay controlled by the switch machine on that turnout, but you could use an auto-reverser. I would recommend a PSX-AR. Tim Rumph Lancaster, SC |
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Re: DCC system resets when accelerating locomotives
Allan and others, an NCE Power CAB can measure and display the ampere demand. It is rated for only 2 amperes. A PowerPRO system (with the right power source/supply) is rated for 5 amps but cannot display the amp demand. Which system is being used? Monitor the voltage from the power supply. Is it also dropping out or is it only the internal booster?
Look also for other clues. Does it occur with the same or group of same loco(s)? Does it occur near the same Section of track? Look for an internal wiring short due to something in the loco touching the frame due to flexing or a loco to loco short through metal couplers as they bump one another. If it is only happening with a multi unit consist, try removing the locos one at a time. Does it occur when pulling no cars? DonV |
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Seeking reversing section input
Hi, I'm re-starting my RR from scratch (getting more space is wonderful).? I've found reversing sections aren't my strong suit, so I'm seeking feedback on the plan to see if I have it right - or too much, or too little, or missing something else altogether.? Please refer to the RED section of this link?/g/w4dccqa/files/ReverseLoops/New%20RR%20Design.pdf
Ignore the tracks that appear to overlap, there are height differences that may not be apparent unless you have outstanding eyesight (or a magnifying glass).? Thank you in advance for any insight you can provide! Nick |
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Re: DCC system resets when accelerating locomotives
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýPerhaps the simplest way of debugging a problem like this is the classic ¡°halving¡± strategy. ?In short, disconnect half of your railroad. ?Find which half provokes your problem. ?Then repeat the process in the troublesome half until you locate the specific area that is causing your problemOn Sep 15, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Phil T. <affirmtraining@...> wrote:
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Re: DCC system resets when accelerating locomotives
Hi Phil, ? I¡¯ve been thinking about your problem.? Can¡¯t say that I¡¯ve seen it before, but I try to give you some useful thoughts. ? You may have a couple of unrelated problems.? First, you talk about ¡°heavy¡± resistance.? Do you mean high resistance?? If so, what reading did you get?? If the suitcase connector did not go together just right, you might a high resistance or nothing at all.? High resistance in wires going to your track is something you do need to fix.? I don¡¯t think a high resistance is the cause of your Power Pro resetting. ? Regarding the Power Pro resetting, I¡¯m thinking you have a load, like a locomotive that is drawing just enough current to pull the power supply for the Power Pro down enough that causes it to reset.? The Power Pro has a neat feature where it can display track current.? (Note:? I believe this only works with the Power Pro and I do not think it works if you got a SB5.)? With no locomotive or any lighted cars on the track, the reading should be zero or nearly so.? If you are reading an amp or more, something is definitely wrong.? If you are reading about 2 amps, then any additional load applied a locomotive that is starting up, MIGHT cause the problem you are seeing.? See page 58 for setting your Power Pro to display track current.? You may have to back up a page or two to find out how to get the Power Pro to display the screen on page 58. ? Allan Gartner Wiring for DC |
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Re: DCC system resets when accelerating locomotives
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Phil, ? I¡¯ve been thinking about your problem.? Can¡¯t say that I¡¯ve seen it before, but I try to give you some useful thoughts. ? You may have a couple of unrelated problems.? First, you talk about ¡°heavy¡± resistance.? Do you mean high resistance?? If so, what reading did you get?? If the suitcase connector did not go together just right, you might a high resistance or nothing at all.? High resistance in wires going to your track is something you do need to fix.? I don¡¯t think a high resistance is the cause of your Power Pro resetting. ? Regarding the Power Pro resetting, I¡¯m thinking you have a load, like a locomotive that is drawing just enough current to pull the power supply for the Power Pro down enough that causes it to reset.? The Power Pro has a neat feature where it can display track current.? (Note:? I believe this only works with the Power Pro and I do not think it works if you got a SB5.)? With no locomotive or any lighted cars on the track, the reading should be zero or nearly so.? If you are reading an amp or more, something is definitely wrong.? If you are reading about 2 amps, then any additional load applied a locomotive that is starting up, MIGHT cause the problem you are seeing.? See page 58 for setting your Power Pro to display track current.? You may have to back up a page or two to find out how to get the Power Pro to display the screen on page 58. ? Allan Gartner Wiring for DC ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Phil T. via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 2:42 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [w4dccqa] DCC system resets when accelerating locomotives ? On my NCE DCC Power Cab layout, after over 10 years of successful operation, my DCC locomotives began to reset the system after I had accelerated above 3 or 4 on the 28 speed setting. By reset, I mean that the system turned off and then went through its starting cycle. |
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Re: DCC system resets when accelerating locomotives
Phil,
? The PowerCab is seeing a short/high amp draw - there's enough power for the layout to come up but not enough for the added draw of trying to move a loco.? Sound locos draw more than non-sound.? Did you add more locos?sitting on the track?? Even one more than you used to use can cause a problem.? ? Take everything off the track (including cars), test one loco at a?time to see if it is one of your locos - no?? Now start adding additional locos one at a time to see if it just too many at once.? Start adding cars back - say 3?or 4 at a time - still no? ? Look for a tool laying on the track just out of sight - such as a screw driver or pair of pliers. ? If you've made any recent track changes - look there.? If you've done any recent scenery work look for possible shorts caused by same. ? You -will- find this and when you do it will be an "Ahah moment".? The basic premise is "divide and conquer". ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - Jim |
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DCC system resets when accelerating locomotives
Phil T.
On my NCE DCC Power Cab layout, after over 10 years of successful operation, my DCC locomotives began to reset the system after I had accelerated above 3 or 4 on the 28 speed setting. By reset, I mean that the system turned off and then went through its starting cycle. Using my multi meter I looked for residence and found heavy resistance in one rail leading to a turnout. I suspect it must be the problem, but I don't know what to do about it. Should I make new wiring connections there? Should I get a new turnout? What is the best way to handle resisitance? Additional info: My layout is small. It's the Yule Central from the Small Railroads You Can Build, edited by Bob Hayden in 1983. It's an oval on a 4 x 6 foot table with two spurs, a tiny run around track, and a small two track stub yard. There are six Atlas snap turnouts and four DPDT switches for block control. I coverted to DCC around 2010 by upgrading wiring. I installed a 14 gauge bus line and attached the 22 gauge feeders with solder and suitcase connectors. I sent my PowerCab into NCE and they tested it and found that it was working perfectly (I have the 1.28C Chip). They suggested I test my decoders and wiring, and perhaps consider purchasing a Smart Booster. Further testing my PowerCab system on an EZ Track oval showed my decoders and PowerCab were working fine. Some of my decoders required resets to factory defaults. I tested my wiring for short circuits using the "quarter test," and each time the quarter was laid on both rails my system turned off. |
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MERG (Model Electronic Railway Group)
Several posts on this forum have referred to MERG CBUS as a layout control protocol (perhaps most popular in the UK where MERG is headquartered), and several people have referred to the many electronics kits made available by MERG. ?I joined MERG about a year ago (it is a hobby organization with about 4000 members) and have much enjoyed participating in their Zoom meetings as well as reading their quarterly journal and ¡°knowledgebase.¡± ?They have said that Zoom meetings will continue indefinitely as it has boosted their geographic reach and made it a more worldwide organization. ?DCC of course is core to many discussions. ?Just passing this on in case others may also find this group of value. ?See?
Jerry? ________________________________________________ jerryg2003@... |
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Re: Digitrax Throttles not working
Your problem sounded familiar as soon as you said, "My Club." if you have someone who uses their own throttle it probably wasn't attached to the layout and was not affected by a software change and should work.?When you turn on Digitrax, it beeps a code that tells you the systems status. The codes are in your command station manual, there are a bunch. Have you reprogrammed your command station and boosters. They can only store so much information. When you start up, use one throttle and one engine (preferably a lighted, sound, engine), turn on the power, if the engine doesn't operate, touch Pwr,? +,? Pwr and try again. Don't program on your layout, If you have folks that program with their throttle, move them to an isolated command station on a test track. When a throttle speaks, EVERYTHING on the layout listens. If you have a short, the equipment will shut down and restart until the short clears and the ticking sound it makes is very subtle. If there is any noise, you wont hear the very light ticking.?Parking on switches and across gaps are a common cause. You can roll across gaps and switches for a thousand years and everything is fine, park on one and you can have a short. Consider using Electronic Circuit Breakers or Digitrax PM42s to separate power districts.? I am guessing that you have already discovered the problem or it vanished. It didn't vanish, someone unknowingly fixed it. We go for months, even do OP Sessions without a hitch in our Getty-Up and suddenly humanity is teetering on the edge of DCC heck. It almost always turns out to me something simple.? An alternative solution is to brew a pot of coffee and arm-chair for a time, that is fun too. I hope you have as much fun as i do. jd
On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 01:20:18 AM EDT, ronmerrill69 via groups.io <ronmerrill69@...> wrote:
We are experiencing a problem on our club layout, I am hopeful that you guys might be able to help.? All of our throttles? are not working. I have already trouble shot all our loconet cable. All seemed to show working with LT1, either 3 or 4 lights. Thought maybe our computer guy might have downloaded a new version on JMRI, and nocked out the throttles. Any thought?
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Digitrax Throttles not working
We are experiencing a problem on our club layout, I am hopeful that you guys might be able to help.? All of our throttles? are not working. I have already trouble shot all our loconet cable. All seemed to show working with LT1, either 3 or 4 lights. Thought maybe our computer guy might have downloaded a new version on JMRI, and nocked out the throttles. Any thought? |
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Re: Odd Behavior of Reversing Section
BillMellott
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýYou have to change the Trip time duration on the PSX's and possibly
the DCS240
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I had a similar situation with the HMRC lay out... I feeds several
PXS-1 from 210 and a 220,? the PSX-1's feed several
PSX-AR
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I am forgetting what Option switch has to be set... CV55 and CV65..
page 14 on the PSX manual ???
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The PSX-1 is "too fast" on short detection thus trips out prior to
the AR flipping polarity
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my two cents
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Cheers,
bill
? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jfm2830 Sent: Monday, August 30, 2021 5:26 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [w4dccqa] Odd Behavior of Reversing Section Any thoughts or recommendations? Thanks, John Moonan |
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Odd Behavior of Reversing Section
I've had a ongoing discussion on the DCC4EVERYONE forum but haven't reach a solution so thought I would try this group.? The problem I'm experiencing is that we have a reversing loop that is handled by a DCC Specialties PSX-AR while the rest of the section handled by a DCC Specialties PSX.? What we are seeing is that as you cross between sections, the PSX-AR switches just like it should but the PSX may trip with a momentary short depending which rail gap is bridged first, i.e., if the left rail gap is bridged first, no problem but if the right rail gap is bridged first the PSX momentarily shorts.? I've adjusted the delay of the PSX so the PSX-AR should react faster but that did not help.? My research makes me think that this problem may be related to the Common Rail wiring.? This is an old DC layout (construction started in 1949) in the Montana Museum of RR History in Great Falls that we have just converted to DCC.? Currently using a single Digitrax DCS240 for DCC power and a total of 12 PSXs and 2 PSX-ARs.? We anticipate the we will have to added additional boosters as club members convert to DCC.
Any thoughts or recommendations? Thanks, John Moonan |
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Re: Can a Circuit Breaker be Shorted from the Input Side?
Rich, once the booster trips all power is lost to the rest of the layout¡ (booster district) including that to the input, and therefore also the output, of any PSX-AR also also wired from that same booster. So yeah, power will be lost to that AR section as well but no harm will be caused as the booster and all CB and AR circuits attempt to recycle and restart/recover.
DonV |
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Re: DCC Bus reversing question
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Jim Okay.? Back to the beginning.? With reference to the drawing I
posted in the photo section.? Correction 1: The two red marks to the left of the crossover move to the right of the crossover.. Correction 2: at the top left hand corner of the drawing, switch
"Rail B" and "Rail A" so that they are consistent with the Main
Layout trackage, which is all fixed polarity, Rail A on the
"outside".? Note, it is shown as being driven from a PSX. When the crossover turnouts are all aligned for 'straight
through', the trackage from L to Q will have the same polarity as
the Main Layout. When the crossover turnouts are aligned to crossover (they will all move together), the trackage from L to Q will have to have reversed polarity, so that they are consistent with the polarity of the turnouts. That reversing of polarity is what I'm getting at in this thread; as stated, I COULD simply throw a DPDT relay with the turnouts, but that causes the usual power cycling for anything in the staging yard due to the slow nature of large mechanical relays. With the AR section(30' long) across the top, the entire staging
area cannot be driven by an Autoreverser as well, as we would
violate the "no Autoreversers Adjacent" rule.? Besides, the yard
will be one PSX section, the rest of the trackage in areas B and C
will be a second section; hence, the autoreversing needs to happen
BEFORE the PSX inputs.? See the drawing! So I was seeking a way to use a solid state device to reverse the
staging area when I throw the crossovers.? I have now found a path
forward, I think, though I'm waiting for a response from the
designer for a couple of details. I'm well aware of the evils of adjacent autoreversers, and
too-short sections. Thanks Blair On 2021-08-29 10:32, Jim Betz wrote:
Blair, |
Tim
Jim Betz