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Re: Wiring a Circuitron DT-1 to a DCC system
John Myers
I spend many fruitful hours watching my track expand and contract:) On Sat, Jun 26, 2021, 6:13 AM Don Weigt <dweigt47@...> wrote:
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Re: Wiring a Circuitron DT-1 to a DCC system
Soldering across any gap is difficult. Solder likes to have a continuous support, so for best results with a rigid connection, lay a wire across the gap and solder it to the rails on either side. If easily installed, a rail joiner is ideal. Rigid joints may cause problems with changing seasons, as typical wood layout bases expand and contract at a different rate than metal rails as temperature and humidity change. For a flexible joint, a U shaped wire can be soldered across. If the space below is clear and accessible, the wire can dive out of sight between the two holes in the roadbed where it comes up next to the rails. Or, you can follow the recommended practice of having a feeder from the track power bus to every piece of rail. I've had good luck soldering rail joiners to both pieces of rail, but leave an unsoldered joiner every 10 feet (3 meters) or so as an expansion joint, adding one or more feeders to each soldered together length of track. But, I worked in electronics for 45 years, and am a proficient solderer. Nickel silver rail is one of the easier metals to solder, by the way. But, make sure it's clean. Solder doesn't stick to paint, glue, or ballast... It's best to solder all the wires and joints before adding those scenic elements. I think rigid track is also less of a problem when it's going around a curve. A long straight track has nowhere to yield, making expansion joints more necessary. Don Weigt Connecticut -- Don Weigt Connecticut |
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Re: Wiring a Circuitron DT-1 to a DCC system
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHello, James Armstrong here at nnjstevestrong@...
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I have a problem:? one of my tracks has a small gap in one of the
rails. The engine simply comes to a? stop? And I am notvery good at
soldering.? Topull up the entire
?
track would mean a lot of soldering and rewiring under neath the
table.? Which is the best way to go./? Would dropping a small
amount? of solder be the best way? |
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Re: AutoReverse for multiple segments
Thanks Don. The operational limitations I understand. And obviously a number of practical considerations will affect individual decisions. But I am gratified to learn that there isn¡¯t some engineering principle at work of which I was unaware.
Still learning, but much appreciate the knowledge I have gained through this blog. Bill D N&W Steam Only |
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Re: Staging yard wiring question
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýAs I said in my original messages, the 12 tracks are switched.?
The expectation is that tracks which are not 'routed' via the
switch ladder will not be powered.? That being said, I have a
request already for an override to allow powering a consist that
isn't 'selected' (to verify consist status while trains are coming
and going from the yards), so your point is valid.? I'm also
pondering whether we may split the yards across more than two
circuit breakers, which again would require more separate bus
wires for both rails - likely 4 common wires for the 12 tracks.?
The common busses coming from the booster will be 12 ga, fanning
to 14 ga for the individual tracks; all feeders are 6" 22 ga. I'm not too worried about speed and light? brightness, as this is
staging.? I get it fully for yards on-layout. Oh well.? I have until Monday before I have to decide.? One more construction night tomorrow, then a construction day Saturday, then I get to wire it.? Thanks for the inputs, everyone. Blair On 6/23/2021 5:42 PM, Don Weigt wrote:
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Re: AutoReverse for multiple segments
Bill, As long as the distances aren't astronomical, and the currents aren't extreme, I can't see any engineering principles involved here. Each reverse loop or wye having its own AR is strictly for practical reasons: because two trains might be at different thresholds simultaneously, setting up an impossible requirement for both phases simultaneously from a single output. I actually violated that rule on my own railroad. I have a double track reverse loop. Immediately adjacent to each end, turnouts join the two reverse loops to single track main line segments. The boundaries to the reversing loops are at the diverging ends of the turnouts. Each of those reversing tracks is about 27 feet long, able to hold three of my typical length HO gauge trains. Connecting them to one AR menas I can't have a train exiting westbound from either track while another is entering eastbound at the other end. I accepted that limitation, since I usually operate the railroad by myself, and never felt the need to have trains entering and leaving those tracks at the same time. BTW: the same requirement exists for each reversing segment, be it a loop or wye. Trains can't cross both boundaries at the same time, at least not powered units, or lighted or other cars with multiple metal wheels connecting to the power from each rail. If trains connect the rails across both boundaries at the same time, a short is inevitable. Usually, it's enough to have to observe the rule for one reversing loop or wye, without adding the needs of another to the equation. So, the core reason is, having separate ARs for each reversing section prevents a lot of complex restrictions when running multiple trains. Don Weigt Connecticu -- Don Weigt Connecticut |
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Re: Staging yard wiring question
One consideration about one common rail connection to all those tracks is, how many trains might be moving on them at once. That single common wire is going to be carrying the sum of all motor, lighting, and sound system currents. Make certain it's heavy enough to handle those amperes with no more than a few tenths of a volt drop. Especially if the run to the booster is very long, you might want 12, 10, or even heavier gauge AWG wire (other countries, appropriate gauges per whatever local standard specifications are.) You want train speeds and light brightnesses to be unaffected by others starting or stopping, and sound equipped locos can draw a lot of current while charging up their onboard capacitors. Don Weigt Connecticut -- Don Weigt Connecticut |
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Re: Staging yard wiring question
I have two staging tracks on my layout. Both are in their own Power Zones. This so that if I cause a short, it doesn't shutdown the rest of the layout. JoAnn Donaldson
On Wednesday, June 23, 2021, 10:04:33 AM CDT, Tim <tarumph@...> wrote:
I had a 12 track staging yard on my last layout. I ran a 12 AWG (white) wire along each track that was routed through the detector with feeders on every rail. The other wire (black) I had a wire every 3-4 tracks just to keep the length of the feeders reasonable. It worked fine with no problems. I've got a picture of this at home that I can upload if anybody wants me to. Tim Rumph Lancaster, SC |
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AutoReverse for multiple segments
I believe I know the answer:? NO; it can't/shouldn't be done.? But I just wanted to confirm that it's a bad idea to attempt to wire two separate reversing segments through a single AR switching device.
Question:? Where there are two physically and electrically separated reversing segments, both ends of each of which are physically adjacent to (but electrically isolated from) non-reversing segments of commonly-wire track, can the reversing function for both reversing segments be performed by a single AR switch, or must/should each reversing segment have its own reversing switch???I haven't seen this issue addressed here or elsewhere.? Is the answer the same, even if the non-reversing segments (and therefore each of the adjacent reversing segments) are in separate power districts?? [I don't see why the answer is not the same.] I recognize that one reason that separate reversing switches could be required is the possibility that two trains might enter into the different reversing segments one after the other, and thereby occupy both segments simultaneously.? All would be fine with the first train, where the AR switch would function normally, and simultaneous switching the polarity/phase of both reversing segments would have no consequence for the unoccupied other segment.? But should a second train enter the other reversing segment while the first train is still in the first segment, the second train would also "trip" the AR switch, which would again switch the polarity/phase of both reversing segments.? That would undo the polarity/phase compatibility previously achieved for the first train, resulting in the AR switch changing "back" the polarity/phase of the first segment.? Of course that would simultaneously change the polarity/phase of the second segment, resulting in a new incompatibility for the second train.? Which, in turn, would result in the same AR switch changing the polarity/phase of second segment (as well as that of the first segment).? And the process would repeat itself, back and forth, in an accelerating and fruitless effort to attain impossible-to-achieve simultaneous polarity/phase compatibility of the the two reversing segments -- until the switch burns itself out.?? Saying one will avoid running two separate trains in the described manner is hardly a solution.? As we all know, if something can go wrong it will go wrong.? So while I suppose it is theoretically possible to wire separate reversing segments to a single reversing switch (I imagine configurations could be posited in which it might work), best practice would certainly not approve.?? But, apart from the obvious problems identified in the above operational scenario, is there a more fundamental reason why, as a matter of electrical engineering principles, two reversing segments should not be wired through a single AR switching device?? ? Bill D N&W Steam Only |
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Re: Auto Reverser (s)
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýConfirm that the frog juicer is set to trip at? lower current than any circuit breaker you have protecting the overall circuit and that the frog juicer is a dual frog juicer working both rails of turntable. ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of dan.b.atkinson@... ? I have a query on a turntable AR - I have installed a Diamond Scale Models turntable with a Tam Valley Dual frog juicer - wired as per instructions but my locos will enter/exit the approach tracks and the roundhouse tracks from only one end of the turntable - from the other end they create a short circuit. |
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Re: Auto Reverser (s)
I have a query on a turntable AR - I have installed a Diamond Scale Models turntable with a Tam Valley Dual frog juicer - wired as per instructions but my locos will enter/exit the approach tracks and the roundhouse tracks from only one end of the turntable - from the other end they create a short circuit.
Any suggestions on this? Thx Dan Atkinson |
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Re: Staging yard wiring question
I had a 12 track staging yard on my last layout. I ran a 12 AWG (white) wire along each track that was routed through the detector with feeders on every rail. The other wire (black) I had a wire every 3-4 tracks just to keep the length of the feeders reasonable. It worked fine with no problems.
I've got a picture of this at home that I can upload if anybody wants me to. Tim Rumph Lancaster, SC |
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Re: Staging yard wiring question
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýBlair, as described there is no?gotcha about wiring the SECOND rail in common on all the tracks.DonV?
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Re: Staging yard wiring question
Agreed, more feeders are better, in fact, I'm wiring a feeder per rail per section of flex.? But it's not what I was asking.? What I was asking about is:
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For multiple parallel tracks in a yard, fed from the same booster, with one rail of each track wired through detection and an on/off switching by relay, is there any gotcha about wiring the SECOND rail in common on all the tracks. I have 12 tracks in a 30' long staging yard, and there is significant time and wiring savings if I wire all 12 tracks, left hand rail, together to one bus wire (yes, that would be about 10 feeders/track * 12 tracks, or 120 feeders on that one wire) rather than having a second bus wire for EACH track.? This, however, means the feeders for the common rails would be much longer. But, several messages ago, I indicated that I'd made a decision. Since the yard is divided, 6 tracks eastbound, 6 tracks westbound, I'll do a common rail for each half of the yard, in case I want to separate eastbound and westbound yards to separate boosters.? I may yet make that 4 bus wires, 3 tracks each, to keep the feeder lengths down.? We'll see. The whole yard comprises >200 feeders for track segments plus 22 feeders at each end from the turnouts.? 12 bus wires for the individual rails, 2 or 4 for the common rails, and 2 bus wires for each pinwheel ladder.? So I'll be wiring for a while.? Then, I'll do it all over again on the upper yard.? Glad I like solder smoke in the eyes! Case closed. Blair On 2021-06-21 17:55, emrldsky wrote:
On 6/21/2021 2:22 PM, Blair wrote:My question was focused on the best wiring of the second, common, rail.Hi Blair, |
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Re: Staging yard wiring question
Hi Blair,
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I've never heard the term sub-bus, but it's been awhile since I did any track wiring. In my understanding, a dropper connects to the rail.? If your bus is close enough, you can connect it directly. But if the bus is further away, or you want to put a on/off switch, etc. between the track and bus, connect an appropriately larger wire between the dropper and the bus. To me, this is a feeder.
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Now that I get what your trying to do, it seems like it will work.?
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Scott Haycock
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Re: Auto Reverser (s)
Sounds like a plan!
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Re: Auto Reverser (s)
Timothy Bray
Sorry,? my response was for a different email.? Not sure how I ended up on this one!
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Tim
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Tim
Phil Friday
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