Re: Short in new turnout ?
Monty, the Walters curved turnout is likely to be of the power routing type. It needs insulating joiners or isolating gaps where the frog (exit) rails join the rest of the layout. Both rails. Also verify the polarity on the rails past the turnout.
DonV
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Re: Short in new turnout ?
I had this problem a couple years ago with a new Atlas turnout. ?Everything that could be viewed was in spec. ?The problem had to be caused by some part that was embedded in the turnout¡¯s plastic.
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On May 21, 2021, at 4:53 PM, monty cunningham via groups.io <lamont7777@...> wrote:
? Allen,
If I am sending this to you twice please forgive.? I attempted to send but could not tell if it went though
Thank you for your reply.
You are correct there are wipers at the end of the points that indeed do make contact with the stock rails. I can also tell that the wipers do not contact both stock rails at the same time. There is a visable gap between the wipers and the stock rails when the points are thrown as they are supposed to be. Also I can tell that there are copper connectors between the switch-point rails and the closure rails which leads me to believe the turnout was designed so power to the switch-point rails, the closure rails and the frog is supposed to be controlled by the switch-point wipers. As mentioned it appears that the point wipers are functioning as they should. However, it also appears that the switch-point rails, the closure rails and the frog (all of the turnout except the right stock rail) are permanently connected to the left stock rail through some means other than the point wipers. I can't imagine what that would be.
I wonder if there is some wiring diagram for the turnout. If there could be some fix like cutting a gap in one or both of the closure-rails.?
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Re: Short in new turnout ?
Allen,
If I am sending this to you twice please forgive.? I attempted to send but could not tell if it went though
Thank you for your reply.
You are correct there are wipers at the end of the points that indeed do make contact with the stock rails. I can also tell that the wipers do not contact both stock rails at the same time. There is a visable gap between the wipers and the stock rails when the points are thrown as they are supposed to be. Also I can tell that there are copper connectors between the switch-point rails and the closure rails which leads me to believe the turnout was designed so power to the switch-point rails, the closure rails and the frog is supposed to be controlled by the switch-point wipers. As mentioned it appears that the point wipers are functioning as they should. However, it also appears that the switch-point rails, the closure rails and the frog (all of the turnout except the right stock rail) are permanently connected to the left stock rail through some means other than the point wipers. I can't imagine what that would be.
I wonder if there is some wiring diagram for the turnout. If there could be some fix like cutting a gap in one or both of the closure-rails.?
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Re: Short in new turnout ?
Hi Monty,
I checked my website.? All views of the Walthers turnouts is after conversion to DCC friendly.??? Perhaps these turnouts will give you some clues to your problem.? Also note that Walthers had some older style turnouts, so be sure to check those out.
Everyone,
As you may know, Walthers is now making a new turnout.? They are not all out yet.? When I get one, I will include it on my website.
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
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Re: Short in new turnout ?
Allen,
Thanks for your reply.
You are correct there are wipers at the end of the points that indeed do make contact with the stock rails. I can also tell that the wipers do not contact both stock rails at the same time. There is a visable gap between the wipers and the stock rails when the points are thrown as they are supposed to be. Also I can tell that there are copper connectors between the switch-point rails and the closure rails which leads me to believe the turnout was designed so power to the switch-point rails, the closure rails and the frog is supposed to be controlled by the switch-point wipers. As mentioned it appears that the point wipers are functioning as they should. However, it also appears that the switch-point rails, the closure rails and the frog (all of the turnout except the right stock rail) are permanently connected to the left stock rail through some means other than the point wipers. I can't imagine what that would be.
I wonder if there is some wiring diagram for the turnout. If there could be some fix like cutting a gap in one or both of the closure-rails.?
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Re: Short in new turnout ?
Hi Monty,
I believe the Walthers turnouts have a wiper near the end of the points that make contact with the stock rail.? The wiper isn't supposed to make contact with the opposite stock rail when the turnout is thrown.? It sounds like your's is.
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
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Have been working on my bedroom layout for about four years now. Finished bench work and track on east side about two years ago. Finally got one line of track all around the room. Installed a Walthers curved turnout in the west leg of the layout. It is the large right hand radius curved turnout made by Walthers. I believe the radii are 36¡± and 28¡±. I have several of these turnouts installed in the east end of the room and have no problems with them. I ran electrical leads to both stock rails. There is no problem as long as the turnout is thrown to the smaller radius. When thrown the other way there is a direct short. After checking with a volt/ohm meter it appears that the switch point rails, both closure rails and the frog are always shorted to the left (large radius) stock rail. This makes everything work fine as long as you are going along the short radius but it you throw the turnout the other way everything shuts down.
This turnout was purchased later than all the others. I got it off ebay but it appeared to be new in its original box so I don't think it has been modified in any way.
Trying to figure what could be wrong and hoping that I could make an easy fix?? Not wanting to have to tear out the switch.
Any ideas?
Thanks
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Thanks, DonV.
I didn't like the design of the early EasyDCC booster, and as an analog electrical engineer, I could and did make my own, more like CVP Products' new boosters. But, the parts count was high, I didn't make a circuit board design for it, and the thought of hand wiring two or three more on perf board wasn't appealing. So, I decided it was worth buying new ones from CVP Products, along with the universal switching supplies they sell to power them, and use my hobby time on other projects.
Don Weigt Connecticut
-- Don Weigt Connecticut
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Way to go! You really are a do-it-your-selfer.
DonV
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For anyone following along, I just received four CVP Products EasyDCC Dual Zone boosters to use with my 22 year old! EasyDCC Command Station I built from a kit. These boosters each handle 7 Amps at 15V or more, and have an auto-reverse option on one output. I've replaced the 20 year old "temporary" 4 amp homebrew booster that has powered my railroad since 1999 with one of these new boosters. The two reversing blocks at the east end of Golden Yard are connected to the auto-reverse enabled A output, the rest of the layout (incomplete, under reconstruction) is powered by the fixed phase ("polarity") B output.
My wiring is not finalized, some connections are with wire nuts and even a few clipleads. Auto-reversing didn't work properly until I set the sensitivity to a low current value, about 1.5 Amps, but now it works fine. I've even alternated the position of my manual polarity control, running a loco back and forth over the gaps at one end of the reversing blocks. There is no perceptible delay, no blink of the lights, no beep of the short circuit beeper or flash of the booster's short circuit LEDs: the train just runs! I am really enjoying not having to worry about that control, and look forward to removing it from my layout's control panel.
--
Don Weigt
Connecticut
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Re: Athearn Genesis GP40-2
I agree Alan. I was in no way asking the group to boycott Athearn and never would.?
On Wed, May 12, 2021, 2:52 PM wirefordcc < bigboy@...> wrote: Okay folks, let's wrap up this thread.? The problem has been identified and a few solutions offered.? Time to move on.
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
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Re: Athearn Genesis GP40-2
Okay folks, let's wrap up this thread.? The problem has been identified and a few solutions offered.? Time to move on.
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
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Re: Athearn Genesis GP40-2
I'm not trying to call out anyone, or point a finger of blame . . . . but this is how I'm summing up this whole thread:
A guy buys a locomotive made by "A" and sold through "B" and immediately starts changing electronic things in it.? The guy doesn't like the outcome of his changes and wants "A" or "B" to fix it.? "A" and "B" have stated and written policies about this type
of request.? The guy is pissed because "A" or "B" stand by their policies and won't do anything for the guy.? The guy wants everyone to support him and boycott "A" and "B" for their lack of customer service.? Sorry guy, look in the mirror and you'll see the
responsible party.? He's the one that needs to fix things.
George?
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Where in all of this has the dealer the model was purchased been involved?
I am a Horizon dealer and ONLY sell trains.? When there is a problem
with a model, I call my sales rep at Horizon and soon after receive the
part(s) to rectify the problem.
Simple!
Calling for boycotts is a stupid knee jerk reaction that will accomplish
nothing.? If your dealer won't help you, there is where you boycott as
they are the ones taking your money and not serving you.
I have yet to be denied assistance by Horizon on any Athearn part needed.
Tom
--
McLean Depot
266 E Dixie Rd
PO Box 266
McLean IL 61754
mcleandepot.com
309-244-5900
M-F 10-6
Sat 10-5
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Re: Athearn Genesis GP40-2
Where in all of this has the dealer the model was purchased been involved?
I am a Horizon dealer and ONLY sell trains.? When there is a problem with a model, I call my sales rep at Horizon and soon after receive the part(s) to rectify the problem.
Simple!
Calling for boycotts is a stupid knee jerk reaction that will accomplish nothing.? If your dealer won't help you, there is where you boycott as they are the ones taking your money and not serving you.
I have yet to be denied assistance by Horizon on any Athearn part needed.
Tom
--
McLean Depot
266 E Dixie Rd
PO Box 266
McLean IL 61754
mcleandepot.com
309-244-5900
M-F 10-6
Sat 10-5
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Re: Athearn Genesis GP40-2
Horizon is not Athearn, call Athearn direct.? They are not listed
in Horizon's list of supported brands.
Chris
On 5/12/2021 7:50 AM, Sam Robinson
wrote:
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Here is their reply to my email.......I've
included the attachment they sent aswell.?
If the product
has aftermarket decoder installed the warranty becomes
void. The Horizon Hobby/Athearn warranty is no longer
valid when any modification (refer to attachment) to the
product outside of factory assembly is administered.
This includes the installation of a decoder whether it
is in the form of a board or plug.? It is encouraged
customers test out locomotive lighting outputs before
installing aftermarket decoders to determine if any
faults are in the product.?
Sincerely,
Horizon
Hobby
I'm with you Paul.
That's really poor on their part.
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Re: Athearn Genesis GP40-2
Sam, if I was in your position I'd remove the Athearn board, buy a Decoder Buddy board, and go from there.? You can reuse your 21 pin decoder on the Decoder Buddy and it has the proper resistors for the LEDs. I rarely trust factory boards and often the Decoder Buddy is not as long, allowing more space for a keep alive and bigger speakers! Craig Zeni
Cary, NC
Despatched from my infernal Android
Craig,
If I make a mistake I admit it and they wouldn't get a email asking them to replace their oversight. I would order a new board and be done with it.?
On Wed, May 12, 2021, 9:58 AM Craig Zeni < clzeni@...> wrote: This, to be clear, is crap.? What a lousy policy.
Craig Zeni Cary NC
Here is their reply to my email.......I've included the attachment they sent aswell.?
If the product has aftermarket decoder installed the warranty becomes void. The Horizon Hobby/Athearn warranty is no longer valid when any modification (refer to attachment) to the product outside of factory assembly is administered. This includes the installation of a decoder whether it is in the form of a board or plug.? It is encouraged customers test out locomotive lighting outputs before installing aftermarket decoders to determine if any faults are in the product.?
Sincerely,
Horizon Hobby
I'm with you Paul. That's really poor on their part.
--
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Re: Athearn Genesis GP40-2
Sam,
? The way around this is to remove the board and 'hard wire' the decoder.
Yes, that's more difficult.? Yes, Athearn should fix the problem by at least
sending you a new board.? Replacing the board is essentially the same
amount of work as hard wiring the decoder.? You can purchase a harness
that has the correct plug on it that allows you to plug in the decoder you
have (21p style) - or you can just use a wired decoder and reuse that
decoder in some other loco.
? Athearn has often done stuff like this - been "inflexible" to changes
and or mistakes.? Not only on decoder stuff but also on paint - even
when the paint mistake is pointed out to them during the "pre" release
of pictures for customer review.? What I learned on one of these is?
that Athearn employees are "just guys who order stuff".? Second?
lesson is that they have a very long lead and so details of the way
the model is/is not are locked in place long before it would seem
to be necessary.? That follows directly from the way the actual
companies bid the jobs ... all changes after the bid result in huge
fees to Athearn/any one ordering.? Those companies know that
there will be changes ... so they bid low and make their money
on the "rework" charges.? This is pretty much how all of the products
produced overseas works and it won't get fixed until the companies
ordering stuff bring the engineering back to the U.S.??
? My experience is that it doesn't really matter what company you
are buying from ("whose name is on the box") - they all have sold
their souls for the reduced cost (fictional?) of having someone
else do the engineering (physical, electronical, OR software).
? We, the buyers/hobbyists, are left with having to live with whatever
product is available.? Often that means putting in an order before
that particular model has ever been seen or reviewed (small
batches of a particular model for a particular roadname).
? And that means we get 'caught' ... from time to time ... with
incorrect details, wrong resistors, inflexible SW, "no longer
available/sold out", etc.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- Jim
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Re: Athearn Genesis GP40-2
On Tue, May 11, 2021, 4:06 PM Sam Robinson via <samuelrobinson388= [email protected]> wrote: Thank you for your reply Craig. If I do have one of the boards with the wrong resistors installed how do I tell?? If I do have one of the boards that's wrong would you happen to know how I go about getting a replacement?
Sam Robinson? Lewiston, Maine On Tue, May 11, 2021, 8:50 AM Craig Zeni < clzeni@...> wrote: Some recent Athearn production were made with 20,000 ohm resistors on their lighting board instead of 2,000 ohm.? Makes for very dim lights. Athearn is replacing the boards, or buy a Decoder Buddy board yourself. Craig Zeni
Cary, NC
Despatched from my infernal Android
Good morning, I recently purchased a Athearn Genesis GP40-2 non dcc/sound. It is the newest version and came with a 21p connector. I picked up a Soundtraxx Tsunami2 sound decoder and installed it along with a speaker. It still has the board it came with. The only thing I changed was where the black wires running from the front and rear ditch lights went to functions on the board. The issue I'm having is the front and rear headlights aswell as front and rear ditch lights are very very dim. This model came equipped with LED's and there are no resistors on the lights. I've tried programming the decoder for "LED compensation" and that didnt work. Anyone have any ideas what would cause them to be so dim and how I can fix it?
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Re: Athearn Genesis GP40-2
To all,
Since I don¡¯t know the products first hand, I agree with you, if you want to boycott Athearn. If they are going to stick to their warranty policy all is not lost. I would look for a local electronic shop that can work on surface mount repairs and have the resistors replaced with the correct value. I personally would do the work but not everyone is used to working on very small components. BUT before doing anything that will surely and permanently void their warranty,?Before doing any soldering. I would network with others that know the issue to determine which parts need to be replaced.?
Of course, the best route is getting Athearn to come to their senses, urged by a group of users, to replace the defective parts, instead of losing their customer base.?
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Craig,
If I make a mistake I admit it and they wouldn't get a email asking them to replace their oversight. I would order a new board and be done with it.? On Wed, May 12, 2021, 9:58 AM Craig Zeni < clzeni@...> wrote: This, to be clear, is crap.? What a lousy policy.
Craig Zeni Cary NC
Here is their reply to my email.......I've included the attachment they sent aswell.?
If the product has aftermarket decoder installed the warranty becomes void. The Horizon Hobby/Athearn warranty is no longer valid when any modification (refer to attachment) to the product outside of factory assembly is administered. This includes the installation of a decoder whether it is in the form of a board or plug.? It is encouraged customers test out locomotive lighting outputs before installing aftermarket decoders to determine if any faults are in the product.?
Sincerely,
Horizon Hobby
I'm with you Paul. That's really poor on their part.
--
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Re: Athearn Genesis GP40-2
Craig,
If I make a mistake I admit it and they wouldn't get a email asking them to replace their oversight. I would order a new board and be done with it.?
On Wed, May 12, 2021, 9:58 AM Craig Zeni < clzeni@...> wrote: This, to be clear, is crap.? What a lousy policy.
Craig Zeni Cary NC
Here is their reply to my email.......I've included the attachment they sent aswell.?
If the product has aftermarket decoder installed the warranty becomes void. The Horizon Hobby/Athearn warranty is no longer valid when any modification (refer to attachment) to the product outside of factory assembly is administered. This includes the installation of a decoder whether it is in the form of a board or plug.? It is encouraged customers test out locomotive lighting outputs before installing aftermarket decoders to determine if any faults are in the product.?
Sincerely,
Horizon Hobby
I'm with you Paul. That's really poor on their part.
--
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Craig Zeni
Jim Betz