Re: DCC Fitting to Bachmann large scale shay
Interesting, that the fancy track powered Bachmann engines/locos had so many issues. I'm still running my first Bachmann Big Hauler 4-6-0 on 3S LiPo 2000 mAh rechargeable batteries and modified electronics for DCC-like control. Never a problem with gearing or wearing out the motor brushes: it just keeps working!
I did replace the sound stuff with a homebrew board, and added two more wire contacts to the drum on one driver axle to get the proper four chugs per revolution. I'm thinking about going to Blunami to have the rest of the sounds: whistle, bell, etc.
-- Don Weigt Connecticut
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Re: DCC Fitting to Bachmann large scale shay
Oh, before I forget, if anyone is reading this, please do not push these engines, Annie, Connie, Heisler, Shay or Climax in order to move them along the track. They don¡¯t like it and will easily strip their gearing causing lots of tears and much tearing of hair, if there is any left that is!
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Cheers
Martin
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Re: DCC Fitting to Bachmann large scale shay
Hi Allan,
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As I said, I can never understand why they have to make it so difficult. I have no idea why so many PCB¡¯s are used as the engines run fine without them.
I¡¯m just completing the fitting of DCC sound to a Bachmann Connie (outside framed 2-8-0), which strangely enough had a brass main gear and new axle fitted. Its problem was two of the nylon gears inside the gearbox had decided to strip. Fortunately they can still be bought from Bachmann in the USA fairly cheaply, although the postage to the UK almost doubles the cost. I stripped all the electrics out of the engine, they¡¯re not really needed and as you say, trying to solder down a boiler tube is near impossible. So, fitted a Soundtraxx 2 TSU4400 and current keeper in the tender along with a 76mm 8 ohm 3 watt speaker. The end result is fantastic and I¡¯m just finishing the weathering to it now. One point to note is that after a virtually total strip down and rebuild, I started to get a short circuit from the engine. Apparently, this is quite a common feature, which is caused by the brake blocks catching the rims of the driving wheels and shorting out. Some careful bending of the guilty block soon cures the problem, but it¡¯s worth noting that it could well happen to anyone stripping and rebuilding this engine, as shorts are not always apparent no matter how hard you look for them.?
I have a second Connie to tackle, but I also have a Climax and a Shay to convert¡I suspect the Climax might be next.
Cheers
Martin
Mohawk Valley Railroad
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Re: DCC Fitting to Bachmann large scale shay
Hi Martin,
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Thanks for the info on the Shay trucks.? I also had a Bachmann Spectrum Climax and external-frame Consolidation.? All broke fairly quickly.? The Consolidation was a trip because
it claimed to be DCC ready (unlike the Shay), but all the wires inside the boiler were too short.? It was very difficult to solder inside the boiler. I think it came with some sort of wiring diagram.
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G-scale locomotives were all very challenging, regardless of who the manufacturer was.? And if they were not DCC ready, they were even worse.? They often had lots of circuit
boards inside of them and lots of screws that held things together.? I had an LGB Sumpter Valley logging mallet that I took pictures of me taking it apart so that I could get it back together. ?I spent about 20 hours doing this and deciding what wiring changes
I was going to make before I cut the first wire and started the install.? Once I had it figured out, it wasn¡¯t so bad.? But still, it was a $2,000 locomotive that I didn¡¯t want to damage and ruin.
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Allan Gartner
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of martin.gliddon via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2025 5:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] DCC Fitting to Bachmann large scale shay
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Many thanks for the reply. Yes, the TSU4400 will fit into the Shay tender.
Some basics on the Shay trucks¡
Early types had 8 screws to the baseplate. These were exceptionally prone to cracked gears.
They were then modified to 6 screws to the baseplate¡which weren¡¯t much better. Both of these types had plastic frames and the loco was classified as a 36 tonner. It can be identified as having a wooden cab, ie wooden panel under the cab
side windows.?
Somewhere along the line, Bachmann got their act together and produced the final version of truck. Identified by only having 4 screws to the baseplate, these have a cast metal frame, better gearing and pickups and are the ones to go for and can still be obtained
from those outlets that have sold out. They can be classed as DCC ready as the pickup wires are entirely separate from the motor wires making DCC conversion that bit easier. The model was classed as a 38 tonner and had a ¡®metal¡¯ cab, ie the panel under the
cab windows was plain and represented a metal panel. The tender height was also taller. These are really the ones to go for. However, as in all good tales, Bachmann did produce 36 ton locos with the 4 screw truck, and there have been many conversions by owners
since then, the 4 screw truck having the availability to be retro fitted to all models of Shay. So, it pays to look at the truck underside when buying a s/h Shay to determine which type of truck is fitted. With proper maintenance, there is no reason why a
6 screw truck shouldn¡¯t last a long time.
I¡¯ve fitted many decoders to locomotives, but none as complex as the Shay or Climax. Tbh I haven¡¯t really had an in depth look at the wiring yet, but it seems to be a lot of spaghetti consisting of coloured
wires that have no real relevance to NMRA standards, on top of a PCB with lots of multi plugs that seem to connect to the front of the boiler and nowhere else.?
Why oh why cannot manufacturers standardise and make their products truly DCC ready, as in Plugnplay, or at least use NMRA coloured wiring. ?
Now which wire goes where?
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Re: DCC Fitting to Bachmann large scale shay
Hi Alan,
Many thanks for the reply. Yes, the TSU4400 will fit into the Shay tender.
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Some basics on the Shay trucks¡
Early types had 8 screws to the baseplate. These were exceptionally prone to cracked gears.
They were then modified to 6 screws to the baseplate¡which weren¡¯t much better. Both of these types had plastic frames and the loco was classified as a 36 tonner. It can be identified as having a wooden cab, ie wooden panel under the cab side windows.?
Somewhere along the line, Bachmann got their act together and produced the final version of truck. Identified by only having 4 screws to the baseplate, these have a cast metal frame, better gearing and pickups and are the ones to go for and can still be obtained from those outlets that have sold out. They can be classed as DCC ready as the pickup wires are entirely separate from the motor wires making DCC conversion that bit easier. The model was classed as a 38 tonner and had a ¡®metal¡¯ cab, ie the panel under the cab windows was plain and represented a metal panel. The tender height was also taller. These are really the ones to go for. However, as in all good tales, Bachmann did produce 36 ton locos with the 4 screw truck, and there have been many conversions by owners since then, the 4 screw truck having the availability to be retro fitted to all models of Shay. So, it pays to look at the truck underside when buying a s/h Shay to determine which type of truck is fitted. With proper maintenance, there is no reason why a 6 screw truck shouldn¡¯t last a long time.
I¡¯ve fitted many decoders to locomotives, but none as complex as the Shay or Climax. Tbh I haven¡¯t really had an in depth look at the wiring yet, but it seems to be a lot of spaghetti consisting of coloured wires that have no real relevance to NMRA standards, on top of a PCB with lots of multi plugs that seem to connect to the front of the boiler and nowhere else.?
Why oh why cannot manufacturers standardise and make their products truly DCC ready, as in Plugnplay, or at least use NMRA coloured wiring. ?
Now which wire goes where?
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Cheers
Martin Gliddon
Mohawk Valley Railroad
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Re: DCC Fitting to Bachmann large scale shay
Hi Martin,
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I suspect you will be able to fit the decoder.? You can be sure by checking the dimensions of the decoder and see if there is room for it.
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I THINK Bachmann has made a few changes since my Shay.? My Shay from Bachmann was their first production run.? It ran about 2 hours before the gears began to crack and rendered it useless.? At the time, Bachmann did not have a fix.? Years later, I saw someone with a Bachmann Shay that ran just fine.? So maybe they fixed their problem.? Before you invest your time and money into installing a decoder into a Bachmann Shay, make sure it is not their first generation or at least you can buy replacement gears for it.
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The basic wiring of all decoders is the same.? Some of the G-scale decoders have optional additional things you can wire.? For example, some have inputs that allow magnets in the track to ring the bell or blow the whistle.? Like I said, these are optional.? If you buy such a decoder, you can always hook them up later.
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A note for G-scalers:? I lived in an area that has twice yearly open houses and had lots of visitors each time.? My garden railroad covered my entire backyard and there were several places where the foot path was crossed by train track.? I couldn't keep an eye on all three trains, visitors and answer questions.? So it was beneficial to have the whistle and bell come on automatically to warn people that a train was coming and to get off the track.
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I have moved and no longer have a garden railway.? It is all now history recorded in my website.
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Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
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DCC Fitting to Bachmann large scale shay
On one of the web pages, there is a very simple set of instructions to fit a Soundtraxx decoder to this locomotive. I¡¯m not sure what model number Soundtraxx decoder it¡¯s referring to, but are the same set of instructions able to be used with the Steam 2 TSU4400 decoder? It obviously wouldn¡¯t need to use to chuff sensor or wiring as the decoder provides for its own chuff ratings.?
Any help here would be very much appreciated.
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Cheers
Martin (Mohawk Valley Railroad)
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Re: Resistance soldering video
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Go here:
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About 2" below "Use a Resistance Soldering Station" at the link, it says "For a demonstration of a resistance soldering station in action, click here" takes you right to the you-tube video.
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Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
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Resistance soldering video
I went to the link given in the June 2021 page 55 bottom of column 3? MR issue to view the resistance soldering video. Cant find video using the given link.
How do I get to the link???
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Re: Testing DCC LocoNet Cables
I had a self-terminated cable that would test fine, but when placed in a Free-mo module, would take down the Loconet.? On close examination, one end had been overstripped, and the wires slightly damaged by the cutter.? If the cable was straight, it tested clean.? Bend the connector to loop it into the UP5, it would short two of the leads (don't remember the pair now).
Try that with a tester.? Connect it, watch the test device's result pattern as you flex the cable near each connector.? If it flickers or shorts, you have your culprit.
It's the little things that can drive you mad.
Regards,
Tim Bowser Capitol Free-mo and Delmarva Speed-mo
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Re: Testing DCC LocoNet Cables
If you have a short in your cable, it would have to be adjacent wires in the cable.? Use an ohm meter to test adjacent pins on the connectors.? You may have to rig up wires attached to the probes on your ohm meter that are smaller than your probe tips.? The contacts in the connectors are recessed and your probe tips are too fat to fit into the recessed area.
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There are communication testers, but I don't know if they can test adjacent wire shorts.? Even if they do, you can cut off your connectors and replace them for less than buying such a tester.? If you have an adjacent wire short, yours will be the first time I have heard someone having this problem.? Not impossible; just not common.
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Allan
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Re: Testing DCC LocoNet Cables
Thanks.? Visual inspection of the plugs shows that the white lead is on the same side of both plugs, and that's consistent with other working cables.? The cable was created by the layout builder to replace a jury-rigged (Macgyvered) connection to a newly added facia plug.? My cable tester's lights go consistently for all the cables I've got.
"Any other Loconet cable inserted in its place eliminates the symptoms."
This fact makes me skeptical of suggestions that the issue is somewhere other than the cable. ?Allan suggested, "It sounds like you have a short."? I'm good with that idea, but would like to know what sort of tester will detect such a problem.? It's clearly not the ones I now own.
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Bill Mosteller
Great Decals!
www.greatdecals.com
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Re: Testing DCC LocoNet Cables
Please go back and read my last post:
"Any other Loconet cable inserted in its place eliminates the symptoms."
The layout is brand new and as I mentioned, works fine with this one cable replaced.
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Bill Mosteller
Great Decals!
www.greatdecals.com
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Re: Testing DCC LocoNet Cables
Bill,
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? I am wondering of the cable is in the RJ11/12 connecters right since you say other cables work when in that spot.
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Have you tried that cable in a different spot?
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Is that cable wired telco style or data style? For loconet use you need data style cables. With my cable tester all the LEDs will light, but run in the opposite direction.
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If I remember correctly if the loconet tells the booster which way the track power is phased, so if the cable is telco style it is reversing
the boosters phase. If that is the case you probably have wiring problems on the track power side that show up when the booster is reversed.?
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Richard Webster
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Re: Testing DCC LocoNet Cables
It sounds like you have a short.? The LT1 is simple and only confirms that there is a connection between the ground in your Loconet cable and in each of the other 4? conductors.? (There are two grounds in the Loconet cable making it symmetrical.)
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Your short could be in your trackwork.? Did your layout ever work with your command station and the booster you are trying to activate?? Is this an older layout that had common rail wiring?? I suspect your cable is good, but once your booster tries to come up, it shorts out the output of your command station's booster and your external booster.
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Allan
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Re: Testing DCC LocoNet Cables
With the defective cable in place the booster it's connected to beeps constantly, all lights are red and the track status light flashes.? The part of the layout it controls has no power.? Any other Loconet cable inserted in its place eliminates the symptoms.? I'm fine with having the problem, what I don't like is that neither the Digitrax LT-1 nor the cable tester I have finds anything wrong with this cable.
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Bill Mosteller
Great Decals!
www.greatdecals.com
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Re: Testing DCC LocoNet Cables
Hi Bill,
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Briefly, what was the problem you attribute to the cable?? It's hard to know whether you should be blaming the cable when we don't know what went wrong.
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I'm definitely fine with you posting your question here.? Just don't forget, that sometimes you might want to ask Digitrax Tech Support; especially if we can't attribute it to the a wiring issue here.
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Allan
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Testing DCC LocoNet Cables
? I recently had a nasty experience with my Digitrax layout (details on request) that has me wanting to be able to test LocoNet cables.? It's not going well.? I have a short cable that neither my Digitrax LT-1 nor my cable tester like, but works fine when included in the LocoNet.? Meanwhile, the cable that produced the nasty experience tests fine with both the LT-1 and the cable tester.? What to do?? Thanks and Merry Christmas.
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Bill Mosteller
Great Decals!
www.greatdecals.com
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Wiring For DCC - Website Update
All,
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I have added links to my website so that you can get the parts you need from eBay to add automatic stall track power control to your Walthers' turntable:
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Happy Holidays
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Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
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H the ones they used were s.poles .they ?are a combination of both ?about 29 yrs ago nc and op switches ?along with diodes attached ?i believe for direction is what i get from last guy who helped start the club. ?wiring diagram is partially missing ?. diagram is done the way they understood it not the typical style ?we started to trace the circuits out, we had bad solder joints and repaired them. what happens is when you press the switches one side only operates. it became a nightmare. we did replace some of the switches ?along with the peco switches ?. when pressing the switch one side of peco switch fried.these are twin coil switches. ?These five switches are the only problems we got so far.?
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William Mosteller
fire5506