Re: C++ vs. C#.NET vs. VB.NET

tripack44

It is possible to waste years debating Java vs. Microsoft or VB vs. 
C++ etc., and the debate doesn't get you anywhere. I view this forum 
as a way to share code, learn from what others are doing and perhaps 
use as a  lobbying jumping off point to get the IB developers to 
prioritize important API improvements / bug fixes. I don't want to 
cooperatively work on a project to develop a killer app, and I'd 
rather the list didn't get hung up in that either. I have my own app 
and have no interest in being a cog in the next open source project. 
I develop my trading software to fill a need in my trading. I'm sure 
there are many others who do the same thing. Programming isn't my 
primary focus, trading is. To the extent that I can improve my 
trading by programming the IB TWS API, I will do it. To the extent 
that I can offer code and help to others traveling the same path as 
me, I will do it. To the extent that I can get help from professional 
programmers to meet this end I am appreciative.

--- In twsapi@y..., "dtkamp" <dkamp@e...> wrote:
Thanks Scott for getting responses.

Seems like way to go in a cooperative project is to get participants 
to use .NET framework, where language choice is least likely to cause 
problems, and C/C++ can be used to generate/process any necessary 
unmanaged (= not under control of .NET runtime) or legacy code. I 
think that will get us the most bang for the buck with repect to our 
individual uses of the code (but perhaps not the most bang if someone 
wanted to sell and distribute a cross-platform app - not a high 
priority for me - but makes sense for IB's use of Java in TWS).

So what do the other 180 people up here think of what I just wrote 
with respect to development platform selection for such a cooperative 
effort? (We can do a separte survey to figure out who's actually 
interested in such a project. Am just fishing for .NET objections to 
start with.) Thanks!

Re: IB Post Questions answered & Q for Dkamp

dtkamp

#44

--- In twsapi@y..., "kgeis" <kgeis@y...> wrote:
The problem is that there are many lone wolves running down rabbit
trails and that is not the solutionWe are running down different trails.  If people truly have the same
needs, these should be communicated to IB as TWS feature requests. 
Personally, I am almost certain that my requirements are different
than others'.This is just a thread within Scott's larger discussion board, adding 
to the intellectual liquidity of the board. No need for all of us to 
have the same aspirations.

e-mail correction

Yolanda

#38

please change my auto responder from yobryan@...    to
kybryan@...            thanks

Re: C++ vs. C#.NET vs. VB.NET

dtkamp

#43

Hi Dion. This could be fun. Let's get all the .NET negatives out in 
the open. I guess some counterpoints to the runtime objection would 
be,

- 20MB is (or is fast becoming) small potatoes, MS has made it easy 
to get the .NET runtime update, and future versions of Windows will 
include it

- if one's primary interest is in gaining access to a group's work 
for one's own purposes (for trading), then one wouldn't be too 
concerned that others might have a harder time getting it (and all 
the developers get the runtime as part of their installation)

Show quoted text

--- In twsapi@y..., Dion Loy <dion-y@l...> wrote:
The problem with .NET is that you have to distribute a 20MB .NET
runtime to everyone. Even Windows XP does not have the .NET runtime
included by default.

Re: IB Post Questions answered & Q for Dkamp

#42

--- In twsapi@y..., "goldensilvermana" <kybryan@c...> wrote:
Dkamp 

Here is how I envision a workable solution: What is this in response to?  This post makes it sound like the
charter of this group is to develop some trading platform, not to
discuss the TWS API.

It is the little guy against the big boys and I smell blood.Huh?  Blood?  This makes no sense to me.  Personally, by implementing
my own solution, I am not competing with the "big boys."  Only if I am
planning on selling it do I compete.  I am developing something
because nothing exists that does what I need.

The problem is that there are many lone wolves running down rabbit
trails and that is not the solutionWe are running down different trails.  If people truly have the same
needs, these should be communicated to IB as TWS feature requests. 
Personally, I am almost certain that my requirements are different
than others'.

Re: C++ vs. C#.NET vs. VB.NET

Dion Loy

#41

The problem with .NET is that you have to distribute a 20MB .NET
runtime to everyone. Even Windows XP does not have the .NET runtime
included by default.

Monday, June 10, 2002, 2:50:02 PM, you wrote:

d> Thanks Scott for getting responses.

d> Seems like way to go in a cooperative project is to get participants
d> to use .NET framework, where language choice is least likely to cause
d> problems, and C/C++ can be used to generate/process any necessary
d> unmanaged (= not under control of .NET runtime) or legacy code. I
d> think that will get us the most bang for the buck with repect to our
d> individual uses of the code (but perhaps not the most bang if someone
d> wanted to sell and distribute a cross-platform app - not a high
d> priority for me - but makes sense for IB's use of Java in TWS).

d> So what do the other 180 people up here think of what I just wrote
d> with respect to development platform selection for such a cooperative
d> effort? (We can do a separte survey to figure out who's actually
d> interested in such a project. Am just fishing for .NET objections to
d> start with.) Thanks!

Re: C++ vs. C#.NET vs. VB.NET
--------------------------------------------------------------------d> --
----------
??? Kent's full of crap! :)

I have yet to see a business app that can't be written in VBd> instead
of C++ and have the user know the difference. Most of the problems
with business apps involve query times against backend databases,
which usually isn't the front end's fault.

Just so you don't think I'm biased, I've done VB and C++ stuff for
almost 10 years. VB beats C++ hands down as the business devd> language
of choice.
d> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

d> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
d> twsapi-unsubscribe@...



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Re: C++ vs. C#.NET vs. VB.NET

dtkamp

#40

Thanks Scott for getting responses.

Seems like way to go in a cooperative project is to get participants 
to use .NET framework, where language choice is least likely to cause 
problems, and C/C++ can be used to generate/process any necessary 
unmanaged (= not under control of .NET runtime) or legacy code. I 
think that will get us the most bang for the buck with repect to our 
individual uses of the code (but perhaps not the most bang if someone 
wanted to sell and distribute a cross-platform app - not a high 
priority for me - but makes sense for IB's use of Java in TWS).

So what do the other 180 people up here think of what I just wrote 
with respect to development platform selection for such a cooperative 
effort? (We can do a separte survey to figure out who's actually 
interested in such a project. Am just fishing for .NET objections to 
start with.) Thanks!

Re: C++ vs. C#.NET vs. VB.NET
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
 Kent's full of crap! :)

I have yet to see a business app that can't be written in VB instead 
of C++ and have the user know the difference. Most of the problems 
with business apps involve query times against backend databases, 
which usually isn't the front end's fault.

Just so you don't think I'm biased, I've done VB and C++ stuff for 
almost 10 years. VB beats C++ hands down as the business dev language 
of choice.

Re: java developer willing to lend a hand

Yolanda

#34

hi-thanks for the e-mail. Will be gone for a few days and will respond after that. Please send future e-mails to??????? kybryan@...???????????????? thanks

dtkamp wrote:

Show quoted text

?Hi StatTrader. Your view here sounds quite reasonable for someone who
is actively writing Java code. Having already stated a counterview,
others are free to decide for themselves, and I'll resist getting any
deeper into this complex issue unless/until it becomes something that
needs resolving (such as in some sort of cooperative endeavor).
Peace. (MS also appears to be planning on bringing some form of Java
back to .NET, which will further confuse the discussion.)
--- In twsapi@y..., "thestattrader" wrote:
> True, Java GUI development used to require quite a bit of work-
> arounds when SWING was new. But that was a few years ago. I'm not
> primarily a GUI guy - I mostly do "mission critical" server side
> programming, but when i do venture back into SWING work I haven't
had
> many problems. True, it's cross-platform nature brings it's own
> headaches with it.
>
> I personaly can't recall any TWS problems that were Java based, nor
> can I imagine any limitations it would introduce outside of
> integration to outside apps via the OS (granted, this may be a
> primary requirement to some). But any speed or graphics issues now-
a-
> days are generaly based on the developer's experience. I've done
> professional c++, vb, delphi, and cobol work - and I'm at a loss as
> to why one would think Java was not suitable platform... java's
> weakness is in advanced mathemtics, and even then it was used for
the
> 3-d graphics engine for EverQuest. And the major firms on wall
street
> are big time java shops.
?
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
twsapi-unsubscribe@...
?
?
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Re: e-mail correction

marinindextrader

#39

Done

test post

#37

test

Re: kybryan will be gone for a few days

marinindextrader

#36

Done

--- In twsapi@y..., "ajr" <areider-list@n...> wrote:
and every time someone posts, we are all going to get his autoresponder email. Could the moderator set him to nomail please?

* REPLY SEPARATOR *

On 6/10/2002 at 3:31 PM Yolanda wrote:
hi-thanks for the e-mail. Will be gone for a few days and will respond after that. Please send future e-mails to        
kybryan@c...                 thanks 
dtkamp wrote: 
 Hi StatTrader. Your view here sounds quite reasonable for someone who 
is actively writing Java code. Having already stated a counterview, 
others are free to decide for themselves, and I'll resist getting any 
deeper into this complex issue unless/until it becomes something that 
needs resolving (such as in some sort of cooperative endeavor). 
Peace. (MS also appears to be planning on bringing some form of Java 
back to .NET, which will further confuse the discussion.) 
--- In twsapi@y..., "thestattrader" <TheStatTrader@y...> wrote: 
True, Java GUI development used to require quite a bit of work- 
arounds when SWING was new. But that was a few years ago. I'm not 
primarily a GUI guy - I mostly do "mission critical" server side 
programming, but when i do venture back into SWING work I haven't had 
many problems. True, it's cross-platform nature brings it's own 
headaches with it. 

I personaly can't recall any TWS problems that were Java based, nor 
can I imagine any limitations it would introduce outside of 
integration to outside apps via the OS (granted, this may be a 
primary requirement to some). But any speed or graphics issues now- 
a- 
days are generaly based on the developer's experience. I've done 
professional c++, vb, delphi, and cobol work - and I'm at a loss as 
to why one would think Java was not suitable platform... java's 
weakness is in advanced mathemtics, and even then it was used for the 
3-d graphics engine for EverQuest. And the major firms on wall street 
are big time java shops. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 
twsapi-unsubscribe@y... 
  
  
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
twsapi-unsubscribe@y...



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kybryan will be gone for a few days

ajr

#35

开云体育

and every time someone posts, we are all going to get his autoresponder email. Could the moderator set him to nomail please?

* REPLY SEPARATOR *

Show quoted text

On 6/10/2002 at 3:31 PM Yolanda wrote:

hi-thanks for the e-mail. Will be gone for a few days and will respond after that. Please send future e-mails to??????? kybryan@...???????????????? thanks
dtkamp wrote:
?Hi StatTrader. Your view here sounds quite reasonable for someone who
is actively writing Java code. Having already stated a counterview,
others are free to decide for themselves, and I'll resist getting any
deeper into this complex issue unless/until it becomes something that
needs resolving (such as in some sort of cooperative endeavor).
Peace. (MS also appears to be planning on bringing some form of Java
back to .NET, which will further confuse the discussion.)
--- In twsapi@y..., "thestattrader" wrote:
> True, Java GUI development used to require quite a bit of work-
> arounds when SWING was new. But that was a few years ago. I'm not
> primarily a GUI guy - I mostly do "mission critical" server side
> programming, but when i do venture back into SWING work I haven't
had
> many problems. True, it's cross-platform nature brings it's own
> headaches with it.
>
> I personaly can't recall any TWS problems that were Java based, nor
> can I imagine any limitations it would introduce outside of
> integration to outside apps via the OS (granted, this may be a
> primary requirement to some). But any speed or graphics issues now-
a-
> days are generaly based on the developer's experience. I've done
> professional c++, vb, delphi, and cobol work - and I'm at a loss as
> to why one would think Java was not suitable platform... java's
> weakness is in advanced mathemtics, and even then it was used for
the
> 3-d graphics engine for EverQuest. And the major firms on wall
street
> are big time java shops.
?
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
twsapi-unsubscribe@...
?
?
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: twsapi-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Re: C++ vs. C#.NET vs. VB.NET

marinindextrader

#33

Another comment from the VB Explorer Board: 

Re: C++ vs. C#.NET vs. VB.NET
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
 Kent's full of crap! :)

I have yet to see a business app that can't be written in VB instead 
of C++ and have the user know the difference. Most of the problems 
with business apps involve query times against backend databases, 
which usually isn't the front end's fault.

Just so you don't think I'm biased, I've done VB and C++ stuff for 
almost 10 years. VB beats C++ hands down as the business dev language 
of choice. 



--- In twsapi@y..., "dtkamp" <dkamp@e...> wrote:
In recent thread on IB board, Kent commented that C++ was the way to 
go for creating serious apps. Is this really true any more if you're 
starting from .NET, where all of its languages are based on same 
underlying runtime lib.s and architecture. For purposes of building a 
killer trading app, does it really matter much whether you're using 
VB.NET or C#.NET or C++? And can't you just mix in legacy C and C++ 
lib.s as necessary?

Re: java developer willing to lend a hand

KBryan

#31

Thanks for your e-mail. I will be out of town for 3 days and will respond after returning. Pleaase send future e-mails to??? kybryan@...???????????? thanks

thestattrader wrote:

Show quoted text

?True, Java GUI development used to require quite a bit of work-
arounds when SWING was new. But that was a few years ago. I'm not
primarily a GUI guy - I mostly do "mission critical" server side
programming, but when i do venture back into SWING work I haven't had
many problems. True, it's cross-platform nature brings it's own
headaches with it.
I personaly can't recall any TWS problems that were Java based, nor
can I imagine any limitations it would introduce outside of
integration to outside apps via the OS (granted, this may be a
primary requirement to some). But any speed or graphics issues now-a-
days are generaly based on the developer's experience. I've done
professional c++, vb, delphi, and cobol work - and I'm at a loss as
to why one would think Java was not suitable platform... java's
weakness is in advanced mathemtics, and even then it was used for the
3-d graphics engine for EverQuest. And the major firms on wall street
are big time java shops.
?
?
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
twsapi-unsubscribe@...
?
?
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Re: C++ vs. C#.NET vs. VB.NET

KBryan

#30

Thanks for your e-mail. I will be out of town for 3 days and will respond after returning. Please direct future e-mails to??????????? kybryan@...?????????????? thanks

marinindextrader wrote:

Show quoted text

?I transfered this question to the VB message board I haunt.
Here is a response from one guy there:
Re: C++ vs. C#.NET vs. VB.NET
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
In .NET, pretty much all the languages are on equal footing. I think
VB is at a disadvantage with some of the OO stuff, though. I don't
think it has function overloading, which is extremely useful, and I'm
still not sure how much inheritance it allows. I could be wrong on
these, though. I haven't used VB.NET at all. 90% of code or more will
be almost exactly the same with VB and C# because of the shared
framework, which is where almost everything in .NET comes from. It
basically comes down to whether you want to use curly braces or not.
The difference in the two is that small. I haven't looked too much
into C++, and I haven't seen much documentation on C++.NET at all.
In my opinion, C++ is useful for three kinds of developers:
1) Ones who find that speed isn't satisfactory in other languages
2) People who need low-level access to the system
3) Gluttons for punishment. :)
Chris
?
--- In twsapi@y..., "dtkamp" wrote:
> In recent thread on IB board, Kent commented that C++ was the way
to
> go for creating serious apps. Is this really true any more if
you're
> starting from .NET, where all of its languages are based on same
> underlying runtime lib.s and architecture. For purposes of building
a
> killer trading app, does it really matter much whether you're using
> VB.NET or C#.NET or C++? And can't you just mix in legacy C and C++
> lib.s as necessary?
?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
twsapi-unsubscribe@...
?
?
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Re: Resources: Two Excellent Sites For Code and Help

KBryan

#29

I am out of town for 3 days will respond after returning. Please direct future e-mails to??? kybryan@...??????????????????? thanks

marinindextrader wrote:

Show quoted text

?Both of these sites are highly recommended. They have been addded to
the Bookmarks section for future reference.
VB Explorer:
The VB Explorer site has very active excellent message boards with
very helpful people.
Planet Source Safe:
The Planet Source site has an excellent searchable code base.
Submissions are rated. Planet Source is the largest public code
database on the internet.
Scott
Owner
?
?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
twsapi-unsubscribe@...
?
?
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Re: java developer willing to lend a hand

dtkamp

#32

Hi StatTrader. Your view here sounds quite reasonable for someone who 
is actively writing Java code. Having already stated a counterview, 
others are free to decide for themselves, and I'll resist getting any 
deeper into this complex issue unless/until it becomes something that 
needs resolving (such as in some sort of cooperative endeavor). 
Peace. (MS also appears to be planning on bringing some form of Java 
back to .NET, which will further confuse the discussion.)

--- In twsapi@y..., "thestattrader" <TheStatTrader@y...> wrote:
True, Java GUI development used to require quite a bit of work-
arounds when SWING was new. But that was a few years ago. I'm not 
primarily a GUI guy - I mostly do "mission critical" server side 
programming, but when i do venture back into SWING work I haven't had 
many problems. True, it's cross-platform nature brings it's own 
headaches with it.
 
I personaly can't recall any TWS problems that were Java based, nor 
can I imagine any limitations it would introduce outside of 
integration to outside apps via the OS (granted, this may be a 
primary requirement to some). But any speed or graphics issues now-a-
days are generaly based on the developer's experience. I've done 
professional c++, vb, delphi, and cobol work - and I'm at a loss as 
to why one would think Java was not suitable platform... java's 
weakness is in advanced mathemtics, and even then it was used for the 
3-d graphics engine for EverQuest. And the major firms on wall street 
are big time java shops.

Re: java developer willing to lend a hand

thestattrader

#28

True, Java GUI development used to require quite a bit of work-
arounds when SWING was new. But that was a few years ago. I'm not 
primarily a GUI guy - I mostly do "mission critical" server side 
programming, but when i do venture back into SWING work I haven't had 
many problems. True, it's cross-platform nature brings it's own 
headaches with it.
 
I personaly can't recall any TWS problems that were Java based, nor 
can I imagine any limitations it would introduce outside of 
integration to outside apps via the OS (granted, this may be a 
primary requirement to some). But any speed or graphics issues now-a-
days are generaly based on the developer's experience. I've done 
professional c++, vb, delphi, and cobol work - and I'm at a loss as 
to why one would think Java was not suitable platform... java's 
weakness is in advanced mathemtics, and even then it was used for the 
3-d graphics engine for EverQuest. And the major firms on wall street 
are big time java shops.

Re: C++ vs. C#.NET vs. VB.NET

marinindextrader

#27

I transfered this question to the VB message board I haunt. 

Here is a response from one guy there: 

Re: C++ vs. C#.NET vs. VB.NET
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
 In .NET, pretty much all the languages are on equal footing. I think 
VB is at a disadvantage with some of the OO stuff, though. I don't 
think it has function overloading, which is extremely useful, and I'm 
still not sure how much inheritance it allows. I could be wrong on 
these, though. I haven't used VB.NET at all. 90% of code or more will 
be almost exactly the same with VB and C# because of the shared 
framework, which is where almost everything in .NET comes from. It 
basically comes down to whether you want to use curly braces or not. 
The difference in the two is that small. I haven't looked too much 
into C++, and I haven't seen much documentation on C++.NET at all.

In my opinion, C++ is useful for three kinds of developers:
1) Ones who find that speed isn't satisfactory in other languages
2) People who need low-level access to the system
3) Gluttons for punishment. :)

Chris 


--- In twsapi@y..., "dtkamp" <dkamp@e...> wrote:
In recent thread on IB board, Kent commented that C++ was the way to 
go for creating serious apps. Is this really true any more if you're 
starting from .NET, where all of its languages are based on same 
underlying runtime lib.s and architecture. For purposes of building a 
killer trading app, does it really matter much whether you're using 
VB.NET or C#.NET or C++? And can't you just mix in legacy C and C++ 
lib.s as necessary?

Resources: Two Excellent Sites For Code and Help

marinindextrader

#26

Both of these sites are highly recommended. They have been addded to 
the Bookmarks section for future reference.

VB Explorer: 

The VB Explorer site has very active excellent message boards with 
very helpful people.
 
Planet Source Safe: 

The Planet Source site has an excellent searchable code base. 
Submissions are rated. Planet Source is the largest public code 
database on the internet. 

Scott
Owner