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cab AC versus coach
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The new Itasca came to me with a broken cab AC, but with a brand new Coleman Mach 9 Plus Polar Cub coach AC (9200 BTU, 1550 running watts in the desert, 1748 running watts for a heat strip).
When I spoke to my repair dude, he said an entire new AC system for the cab is about $2000 (the compressor is corroded and rusted shut, and no coolant, too far gone to fix). He suggested instead of replacing the cab AC, just install a new generator and run the coach AC when driving. Reading online, it seems as if the only "installed" RV gens are by Cummins Onan, and the smallest they offer now, the QG 2800, is a bit too wide for the generator opening -- unless I take out the metal plate separating where the old generator was from the storage for the huge electric connection line. The camper did come with a used Kohler that the previous owner was going to put in, but never got around to -- no idea if it works, or even how to check it. All the Kohlers I had previously didn't work and couldn't be fixed. So, what do y'all think? 1. fix the cab AC and get a portable generator to take boondocking? I'm 64 and not as strong as I used to be so can't pick up much over 50#, and maneuvering a portable generator thru the coach door may be daunting. 2. somehow modify or remove the metal plate and electric line storage area so an Onan will fit? or remove the plate and store the line above and on top of the Onan? 3. jury rig a metal platform off the backside to hold non rv generator and use that somehow (my least favorite option, but mentioned by mechanic - sounds ugly, a heavy weight off the end of the rig, and the frame does have some rust I need to abate so I'm not happy about welding to the frame)? 4. Have any of you used the coach to keep the cab cool, and did it work well and not use too much gasoline? or is this a seriously BAD idea? Thanks Y'all, Sue Crowe (wondering if she made a big mistake buying this camper) (but it's sooo pretty!!!) (and the Poor Neglected Thing need a Home) |
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Here in florida, I use do not use my cab A/C. When driving, I open the small triangular corner side windows and with the overhang from the camper, the heat is tolerable. I also drive secondary highways. The interstate is much hotter. I'd rather save on fuel and get the extra HP When camping, if I can't tolerate the temp after mitigating the heat, I use the onboard jenny. If I where you and wanted to save $, skip the cab A/C. Travel early in the morning or over night. Get an efficient, quiet modern jenny and find a way to install it to work with your ability level. Use it to run your cabin A/C, which you will need to cool the cabin for sleeping. Most places allow Jennie till 10 pm. Do a good job insulating and you will do fine. Out west the night time temp drops and you rarely need A/C after 10 pm.? In the east (florida) night time temp is 80 degrees. I can get my 87 Sunrader down to 68. Then I use small fans. It doesn't reach 80 until almost 4 am. Then I open the windows and it stays cool enough till about 7:30.? I also park in the shade and cook outside. Of you have a solar panel, you can run fans during the day. Adjust windows to create a draft and things are tolerable. During the day, I don't spend much time inside. Take cold water showers. Also, fill the onboard A/C cavity with batteries. If you have enough batteries, you can use an inverter. On Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 5:32 PM drscrowe via <drscrowe=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote: The new Itasca came to me with a broken cab AC, but with a brand new Coleman Mach 9 Plus Polar Cub coach AC (9200 BTU, 1550 running watts in the desert, 1748 running watts for a heat strip). |
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When I had my Granville i had no cab air either. Way too expensive to fix! So I mounted a Honda 2000i on the rear extended bumper and ran the electrical cord down the side of the RV to the generator. The Honda ran my coach AC perfectly while driving down the road and the coach AC cooled down the cab Perfectly! I mounted the generator in two heavy duty milk crates that were bolted to the bumper. In my case the bumper was reinforced to the frame!
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I wonder if you could run a 2000-watt inverter connected to the engine battery with BIG FAT wires and run the coach AC off of that.? Would the engine battery and alterator stand up to that?
I have a 7100-BTU roof AC that barely keeps the living area livable on hot southern days.? It runs just fine on the EU2000i generator which is 1600 watts continuous and 2000 watts peak, IIRC (don't have the specs right here in front of me). Rough estimates indicate that at least 150 amps will be needed from the alternator; are alternators available for our toyhouses that will output that much or more on a continuous basis?? How badly will that kill fuel mileage? Mark, you said that your roof air cooled the cab perfectly.? What size roof AC do you have?? As I noted above my 7100-BTU is barely up to the job of keeping the coach area ivable so I'm thinking it probably won't do much for the cab area but maybe it would... |
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I don't know what the 2000 dollar repair for your AC system included but I am seeing kits available online in the 300 dollar range. Probably need a few more things but it shouldn't come to 2 grand
My daughter had her AC replaced in her Grand Caravan not that long ago. It also was all bad. Very difficult access, lots of extra work moving things out of the way. She paid less than $1500. Toyota trucks are easy access. This system is for 134 refrigerant too. Linda S |
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Re: Running 2000W coach A/C off the alternator.
The limiting factor here is probably not the alternator (some automotive electrical shops will rebuild alternators for higher capacity). For example, Instead, the expense and complication of purchasing and fitting the "fat wires" you need to make it work will be prohibitive. You'll need two gauge 3/0 or one gauge 6/0 wires to carry the current. To picture this, you either need two wires the diameter of your index finger, or one wire the diameter of your thumb. You will also have to run ground cables of similar diameter between the inverter and the chassis, and between the chassis and the negative post of the battery. I think the idea of mounting a 2000W generator on the bumper is probably simpler to implement. Good luck, Buzz L. Phoenix, AZ Former '86 Dolphin, '89 HiLux, and '96 Tacoma owner |
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On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 03:26 PM, Buzz Lightyear wrote:
I think the idea of mounting a 2000W generator on the bumper is probably simpler to implement.OK, but then don't you run into the same issues as when trying to tow a trailer?? The weight on the bumper is momentarily multiplied many times when going over bumps and frost heaves, etc.? The general consensus around here seems to be that the frame extensions aren't designed to take that, which is why people keep saying to never try to tow a trailer. Eric in NH (who occasionally tows a small landscaping trailer with a motorscooter, and so far no problems) |
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Hello ... we don't get the heat most have down south, I always enjoy the chase to solve issues, for cooling a Toyota truck and cab that never came with the AC unit.
Where an older model ((90) 22r (re) it never had the compressor for ac but had a blower for pollution control, I purchased a second alternator from the junk yard and it fit nicely into where the air compressor lived to blow air to exhaust system. I then found
the belt that fit my now mounted second alternator to the engine pulley and wired it in parallel with the stock alternator, such that each alternator worked as one unit, one alternator was 60 amp, the other was 90 amp, so had 150 amp supply when needed, it
still works great 30 years later, but at the time it ran a inverter that ran a ac unit in my back truck window, this was not in my Toy rv, but my Toyota 90 truck. Anyway, for my AC unit in my 87 Seabreeze I have a generator on the back bumper, 2000w inverter,
will run my roof ac when we park or travel, I guess. The point is a second alternator worked out very well and gave me lots of electrical power. I found the dual alternators acted as one due to been wired together in parallel when the demand wanted power.
Important to instal heavy load wire of the second alternator which went to the battery with the original.? Just a thought.? ... Bruce in Canada
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I have two thoughts to add to this discussion.??
Re: converting the cab AC to R-134a:? Unless you convert ALL the components of the AC system, it will never keep as cold and the original R-12 refrigerant where you are in the humid south.? The "kits" basically only convert the filler valves, and are not as complete as what you will need for a full R-134a conversion (like a R-134 compressor).? $2000 is not all that too high to "do it right."? Shop around and you might find it for maybe a bit less.? An Onan built-in generator is the most convenient way to go.? The (now-discontinued) model called "Camp Power" is what we installed in our Winnebago in place of the Kohler.? It is a bit narrower than the Onan "Microlite" model.? If you can find a certified refurbished used one (perhaps $1000, plus install), that would be my recommendation over a bumper-mounted portable generator that you have to keep re-filling with gas.? Too much extension and weight on the rear is not a good idea, especially if it is bouncing up and down on just one hitch point. |
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Re: Mounting generator to the bumper
I misspoke. When I thought of "mounting it to the bumper", I was thnking of my old Dolphin where I had a tow hitch welded to the frame upon which I installed a mesh metal platform. I used that to haul my bicycle (and occaional odds and ends). My bicycle was about 25 lbs. A 2000W generator is probably in the range of 40-60 lbs., so I think it would be OK in such a setup. There are two separate issues with respect to putting additional weight on the back of Toyhomes or using them for towing: 1) The "bumper" mounted on the back is not a strong structure, so putting substantial extra weight on it risks damaging it. This is not an issue if the structure supporting the load (e.g. a tow hitch) is welded to the frame itself. 2) Toyhomes are very near the chassis' maximum design weight limit even when unladen. Adding a trailer usually means exceeding that limit, so the engine, transmission, brakes, etc. are dealing with an excessive load. Despite that, many Toyhome owners do tow small trailers with their units and report they encounter minimal issues. I think concerns about putting moderate additoinal weight at the far rear of a Toyhome is somewhat overblown. In terms of the additional burden on the frame/chassis, it's little different than having a 200-lb passenger sitting in the rearmost interior space (e.g. my Dolphin was a rear dinette setup, so people could sit right next to the rear coach wall). Nobody raises a fuss about passenger placement. Good luck, Buzz L. Phoenix, AZ |
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On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 09:54 AM, Buzz Lightyear wrote:
1) The "bumper" mounted on the back is not a strong structure, so putting substantial extra weight on it risks damaging it. This isOn my Warrior (1991 V6), the rear bumper is a square steel pipe that also carries the holding tank drain hose.? I can imagine LOTS of things that will break long before that length of steel pipe does.? What seems to be of the most concern (around here and elsewhere) are the frame extensions that support the rear end of the house.? Those things aren't very sturdy-looking and the thought is that it won't take much extra weight to bend them or break the weld to the main frame.? I don't recall running into anyone who has actually had that happen, though. I think concerns about putting moderate additoinal weight at the far rear of a Toyhome is somewhat overblown. In terms of the additional burdenYeah, but you're probably not going to have anyone sitting back there when underway, right?? Besides being illegal in most so-called "click-it-or-ticket" jurisdictions (nanny seat belt laws) unless you have approved seat belts installed back there, my guess is it's probably not recommended by the manufacturer for the same reason towing a trailer is not recommended.? Again, probably something that lots of folks tell you not to do but no one has had any first-hand knowledge of any problems that resulted from doing it. |
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My truck AC works great, but on hot days the kids in the coach would still get warm, especially in the cab over. Whoever was in the front seats needed to wear sweatshirts...ha. So, this is what I ended up with after years of tweaking.?I have a rack that goes in the trailer hitch, that has a platform and a bike rack. I had my frame extensions reinforced.
I have a Wen 2350watt generator. I went with it over the Honda just due to the weight...the price helped too. The Wen only weighs 39lbs. I cut the wire going from the inverter to the AC located under the couch, and installed heavy duty male-female connectors. Then I fished another, same gauge wire, back behind the sink & furnace and drilled a hole next to where the propane line exits the coach. I put a male plug on the end that plugs into the generator and a female plug on the other end under the couch. When we are camping, we just connect the male & female of the original wire that we cut. When they are plugged together, its just like the original setup. When we are going down the road we just unplug the original setup and plug the female end of the wire that runs from the generator into the male that goes to the AC. The generator runs ONLY the AC, it does not run the invertor or anything else in the coach. I also installed a soft start to the AC unit. Everything works nicely together. The Wen only holds about 1 gallon of fuel. The rack that houses the generator has a place for my 1 gallon gas can. That 1 gallon lasts longer than the fuel stop interval of the motorhome. When we stop for fuel, I fill the generator back up with the gas can, then I refill the motorhome & gas can at the same time. It is the least inconvenient way that we have thought of so far. Like I said, we have been tweaking our setup over the years. Not saying its the best way, but it is the best way that my little pee brain has come up with.....so far. Ha I can send pix if it will help anyone. -- JohnJab01 |
开云体育About $1500.00:?
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RE:? I have a rack that goes in the trailer hitch, that has a platform and a bike rack. I had my frame extensions reinforced.
I have a Wen 2350watt generator This, I think, is probably the easiest solution to implement. As I recall, getting a tow hitch receiver welded to the frame rails was a few hundred dollars. Harbor Freight sells hitch cargo carriers for relatively cheap. The wiring is a few tens of dollars in parts and minimal labor. No alternator modifications (or replacement of the secondary air pump with another alternator, as described elsewhere here, which is technically a violation of emissions laws and will cause a smog test failure in any state that does visual inspection). No need for ridiculously thick (and expensive at $10 per linear foot) wiring. No need to engineer connections between the thick wires and components designed to accommodate much smaller wire sizes. Plus you have a portable generator which can be used in other situations where electric power is required (make sure you keep it secure, generator theft is a common problem in camping situations). Buzz L. Phoenix, AZ |
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On my Granville it had a large extended platform on the rear welded to the frame so the Honda fit perfectly on the platform. Not many Toy Homes have that option. Most Toy bumpers are flimsy and Not welded to the frame! I would highly recommend a weld and not just bolts. There is a lot of bouncing around back there. The Honda ran my AC and refrigerator while driving with No Problems!
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On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 12:04 PM, Buzz Lightyear wrote:
RE:? I have a rack that goes in the trailer hitch, that has a platform and a bike rack. I had my frame extensions reinforced.For those of you who have done this... how much weight did the frame extensions reinforcement add to the vehicle empty weight? These things are close to their rated gross weight when empty, as is.? Do we really want to add more weight? |
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