Locked
Re: Help ! Calling Ghostbusters.
On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 12:59 AM, AGA001 wrote:
As others have rightly pointed out, your system is the very definition of RF Hell, but let me throw in my two cents.
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1) You have put too much faith in wifi. Too many devices, perhaps too many operating on 2.4 GHz, perhaps too much reliance on large bandwidth protocol selection, perhaps overlapping channels. For instance, why so many wifi light bulbs at the same location if you probably do not operate them independently? Use a single wifi switch (Such as Tapo or Meross) to control several standard LED bulbs at once (also cheaper to replace when they die).
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The reason for the Wifi bulbs is not on/off control. If that were the case, I would indeed only be using smart relay switches. The Wiz bulbs allow dimming, setting brightness, color temperature, different colors, and have some neat dynamic color effects as well. These features cannot be controlled via a simple on/off relay smart switch, or even smart dimmer switch. Some software is needed to communicate with the bulbs, and the bulbs I'm using are controlled through Wifi. Philips provides a Wiz app for smartphones, but that's not what I'm using. I use Home Assistant with the Wiz integration.? Even though in practice, I only ever set the on/off status, color, etc. to the same value on all bulbs of a given circuit, that doesn't negate the need to talk to each bulb to set the parameters. I believe the bulbs support some form of IP multi-cast to lower the Wifi traffic.
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The way I want to operate the bulbs is to use a smart switch as a scene controller. Specifically, I have Zooz ZEN76 Z-wave on/off switches. One of its features is that the relay can be disabled, which they call "smart bulb" mode, in which power is always supplied to the circuit. This might sound useless, but actually the switch can then be used as a scene controller, to issue commands based on the number of presses to the upper and lower paddles. You can program up to 5 commands on each paddle. However, some software is required to respond to the Z-Wave commands. It is Home assistant again. And when it receives these commands, it can then control the bulbs and change on/off status, brightness, color, etc. The biggest downside of this mode however is that if Wifi or Home assistant are down for any reason, the lights can't be controlled anymore, because there is no one to respond to the Z-wave controller commands, or to send Wifi commands to the bulbs. At least I have made sure that everything still operates even if the ISP is down - the router, AP and Home assistant all stay up, and even my phone stays connected to Wifi without internet so the HA app can still be used.
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I have done a proof of concept in my home theater with the smart bulb mode. It happens to be working reliably in that room right now. I think having those 21 bulbs on the network permanently, as opposed to turned on/off by a relay, helps with the reliability. I control the light from 4 different wall switches / scene controllers, as well as from Home assistant remote. But the best part is that I can also control them from my infrared ARRX18G. It sends an IR signal to an AtHom IR to Wifi receiver. Home assistant then processes the IR commands over IP, and controls the lights in the theater from the couch.
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However, things become problematic if I turn on all 220 bulbs in the house, especially if they all get turned on near simultaneously, which floods the Wifi network. Right now, I have about 30 smart switches that I could configure operate in smart bulb mode, and keep the corresponding Wifi lightbulbs on the network all the time. But there are 60 non-smart switches that can't do that. But they aren't dumb switches either - they are CA Title 24 vacancy switches that I put in 15 years ago to automatically turn off the lights after 30 minutes if there is no motion. Unfortunately, the vacancy feature can't be disabled, and thus it is impossible to keep all 220 Wifi bulbs on the network 100% of the time - only about one third of them.
2) Probably too many sources of RFI, such as solar inverters, EV chargers, etc. Not much you can do about that, but a TinySA may indeed help you to identify the main culprits.
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Thank you ! The micro-inverters are all on the roof under the panels. Not sure if that changes things. But they can be turned off by breakers.
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The 2 EV chargers are in the garage, plugged in to 14-50 outlets. I could easily unplug either or both of them to test for EMI.
How would I use tinySA to detect the interference when placing it near the EV chargers, for example ?
3) Probably lots of intermodulation with so many RF sources mixing with one another on every wire mesh fence, every door hinge, every rusty bolt. Not much you can do about this, but it can definitely raise your background noise level. Again, a TinySA can help you to measure background noise levels. A total blackout measurement could provide you with a useful noise base level to compare against in the different frequency bands, but I do understand that may be easier said than done.
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Thanks. I'm retired/disabled software engineer, and have got plenty of time to do the testing, if tinySA allows for it. But I need pointers on how to achieve this.
Start by checking out the quality of your cell connection. If you were based in Europe, I would recommend you load your Android phone with an app called Network Cell Info. Don't know if they support USA frequency bands and protocols, but if they do, absolutely try it. It will tell you the truth about the actual cell service you are getting, carrier promises notwithstanding. If they don't serve your area well, look for something similar. Notice I said Android, because Apple severely restrict the capabilities of this type of app, so do not even bother with an iPhone. Pay special attention to signal levels (which will speak to their coverage) and signal to noise ratios, which will speak (to some degree) to your locally induced interference.
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No worry, I use Android. Walled gardens are not for me. There is no cell carrier that serves my area adequately. This was the case when we first toured the house before buying it 15 years ago, before there was any wireless device inside the house - be it Wifi, Z-Wave, DECT, alarm, etc. Unfortunately, the coverage has not improved. Until there is a law that forces a carrier to provide service here, I don't think it will. I used the FCC mobile app years ago to report on this. It ended up on an FCC map that I think reported 0.02 kbps for T-mobile at my address, slower than a V21 modem, but still slightly faster than the V23 upstream that was slower than my typing speed in the 1980s. I don't believe there is a point in pursuing cell interference. I can't find that particular FCC map online right now, but there is really no point for me in pursuing any interference related to cell signal, IMO.
As for the TinySA, it can do wonders for you in this application. I make my living as a professional engineer, I have one Tektronix top-of-the-line SA and one field level Rohde&Schwartz SA, and still I resort to my two TinySA's most of the time. The catch is that spectrum analyzers are tricky instrument to use effectively. You need to have a solid grasp what they do and how they do it before you can draw conclusions.
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Thanks ! I'm trying to understand how to use it before purchase.
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So buy a TinySA, just make sure you buy from an authorized source (I believe it's stateside), and don't scrimp, get the Ultra version if for no other reason than the larger screen. Oh, and do it quick before tariffs hit you, LOL.
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The larger screen is definitely a must as I suffer from a rare form of maculopathy that affects near vision, among many other things. I also see from videos that the tinySA uses black backgrounds on many screens. Can this be changed ? My vision is much worse on dark color/black background. I know most scientific instruments use black backgrounds, and a white background would use more energy, but a high contrast/white background color scheme would be very helpful, as anything with a dark background is actually low contrast for me.
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I would only buy the unit from an authorized source.
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Re: TinaSA Ultra - Sweep command giving back random data error in dBm Field.
I have this same problem! Were you able to resolve the issue somehow?
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cheers
dom
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I want to take continuous trace data every 500 ms. I go to level? -> trigger -> and turn on auto save and set the interval to 500 ms. I believe this should give me what I want. However I do NOT get a new save every 500 ms.? I get a new save about every 30 seconds. Why is this? What settings should I change?
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Thanks,
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Re: measuring spectrum of a single pulse not feasible with TinySA?
You can also do the FFT calculation off line in python if you can capture a data plot from the scope. Most modern scopes let you transfer them to a PC to do this even if they can't do the FFT internally properly.
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Here's a you tube video with pointers to Python code that does exactly this.
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Dave's comments about the needed scope bandwidth still apply, however.
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I hope this helps without being too off topic...
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M
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Re: ?Red paused“ information, wenn running tinysa-app on windows
Thanks, Erik! I make progress to understand my new TinySa! Dr. Hartmut Brand 72631 Aichtal Von meinem iPhone gesendet Am 02.04.2025 um 14:11 schrieb df2jp_1 via groups.io <df2jp@...>: ?I suppose that the tinySA screen is paused as long as remote access via the software takes place 73 Joe -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] Im Auftrag von Hartmut via groups.io Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. April 2025 13:37 An: [email protected]Betreff: [tinysa] ?Red paused“ information, wenn running tinysa-app on windows ?Hi Erik, I am running the tinysa-app on windows, everything runs well, but starting the continuous scan in the app, on my tinysa I see the ?red paused“ info in the infobar. What does it mean? The tinysa runs continuously without pause! Have you an idea? Best regards Hartmut Dr. Hartmut Brand Aichtal www.hartmutbrand.de Von meinem iPhone gesendet
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Re: Input RF switch fault found on TinySA ultra
Yes, you definitely need a microscope. If you're a hobbyist and you solder often you'll not regret buying a good microscope. Key thing is it has to be a normal optical microscope with at least 15cm~20cm of space between the optics and the work piece. It shouldn't have too much magnification. I believe my microscope has 0.5x and 1x objectives and the eyepieces are 10x. I also have 20x ones but I use them rarely. So a magnification of 5x is pretty good.
I like my microscope so much I do most of my soldering under it. I really like watching how tiny pads become molten.
Regarding this part if you don't have hot air the best way to remove it is either crush it with snips (GENTLY) or put a large ball of solder on a big chisel tip that will engulf the entire chip. Touch it and the moment solder melts it should suck the chip right into the ball of solder. It is very possible the ball will drop the moment you start lifting it so put a suitable shield in place (piece of cardboard) to move it between the pcb and the tip the moment you lift it.
If you have hot air youjust tape everything surrounding the part with kapton, blast it and grab with tweezers when you see under the microscope it became shiny(melted).
Soldering back is not that hard (with a microscope). You solder two opposing corner legs. Then you go after the rest. The easiest is to have a small tip (not the smallest, next size up) and go leg after leg. There is a technique where you do the entire side at once. I always have shorts afterwards.
You'll also need leaded solder in 0.25mm rosin flux wire (0.5mm may be OK) and so called bga flux. Make sure to wash it later (with ipa) as the thing is really corrosive.
I've replaced a tiny switch like that in a nanovna, but it was even smaller and had balls under for contacts. Still it was fine with hot air.
As others say. Be very careful if you choose to crush. Do not cut the legs. You will rip the pads off the pcb. Just crush the chip itself.
Good luck,
Based on the "fault finding" tab at , my SA ultra's input RF switch chip U22 (AS179-92LF) has failed. This chip is so tiny it seems there is not a soldering iron or tweezer small enough to replace it. It's like a microscope-dependent repair! Has anyone had success with this repair, or is it just smarter to buy a whole new SA Ultra?
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"If the signal drops much more then 6 dB, or disappears completely, the LNA (U14) needs to be replaced."
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After the above comment following LNA test and before ATTENUATE test,?I think you need to instruct that the LNA be disabled since enabling LNA disables ATTENUATE.
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Peter
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Re: Input RF switch fault found on TinySA ultra
On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 02:08 AM, Rainer Hantsch wrote:
But - honestly - hot air is definitely the better choice.???? -> I am talking of a hot air reflow workstation, not a hot-air-gun from supermarket.
Applying background heat to the PCB helps in using lower temperatures and reduces thermal stresses on the board and components.
Low-melting point solders like Chip-Quik also have their place in your rework arsenal.?
I use the paste; a surprisingly-small amount (tip of toothpick, heaping it on just makes a mess) will drastically lower the melting point of the solder, which just makes things much easier.
73, Don N2VGU
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Re: Hunting Spurious Emission at 154 MHz
I discovered a strange signal on 3.846 MHz in the 80 meter band. I asked my ham friends around town if they could hear it. They all answered no. ?So I went out with a large loop and DF’d the signal to a house 1050 feet away from mine. The signal is always present and appears continuously with no changes until night fall. Then the tone ?(listening on USB) changes its periodic modulation rate. ?I do not know the owners and they live in the adjacent gated neighborhood. ??
The house does not have solar panels on the roof.?
Mystery not yet solved. Just located.?
-Charlie
?W5CDT
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Locked
Re: Help ! Calling Ghostbusters.
Is there interference around the ISM frequencies: My Toshiba microwave oven interferes with the 2.4 GHz wifi. My manual mentions radio interference when in operation. Mike N2MS On 04/01/2025 4:53 AM EDT madbrain <groups_dot_io@...> wrote:
That's really impractical for the hardwired devices, which are many. Flipping some of the 50 breakers works, but cannot isolate a single device such as a switch or bulb.
I can turn off power to entire lighting circuits, but not to smart switches or individual bulbs.
I'm posting here because I'm hoping there is a tool that can help me with pinpointing the source(s) of the issues. Can tinySA really not help ?
Mike N2MS
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Re: ?Red paused“ information, wenn running tinysa-app on windows
I suppose that the tinySA screen is paused as long as remote access via the software takes place 73 Joe -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] Im Auftrag von Hartmut via groups.io Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. April 2025 13:37 An: [email protected]Betreff: [tinysa] ?Red paused“ information, wenn running tinysa-app on windows ?Hi Erik, I am running the tinysa-app on windows, everything runs well, but starting the continuous scan in the app, on my tinysa I see the ?red paused“ info in the infobar. What does it mean? The tinysa runs continuously without pause! Have you an idea? Best regards Hartmut Dr. Hartmut Brand Aichtal www.hartmutbrand.de Von meinem iPhone gesendet
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Re: ?Red paused“ information, wenn running tinysa-app on windows
The tinySA automatic scanning is stopped, hence the "paused"
Instead, the tinySA-App send scanraw commands, possibly with much higher resolution, and you see the green line of the progress of the scanraw commands
--
Designer of the tinySA
For more info go to
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Re: Advice on connecting TinySA Ultra to audio amplifier
Yes
--
Designer of the tinySA
For more info go to
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Re: Advice on connecting TinySA Ultra to audio amplifier
Thank you! ?To be clear, connect a 20 dB attenuator (from Amazon) to the RF output, then a wire (SMA - > BNC with alligator clips or SMA bare wire coaxial cable - also Amazon) red connected to FM antenna and black to chassis ground?
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?Red paused“ information, wenn running tinysa-app on windows
?Hi Erik,
I am running the tinysa-app on windows, everything runs well, but starting the continuous scan in the app, on my tinysa I see the ?red paused“ info in the infobar. What does it mean? The tinysa runs continuously without pause!
Have you an idea?
Best regards
Hartmut
Dr. Hartmut Brand
Aichtal
www.hartmutbrand.de
Von meinem iPhone gesendet
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Yes, the TinySA is a spectrum analyzer. The NanoVNA is a network analyzer. The NanoVNA can be used to measure impedances of coax, the rate of loss of coax over a frequency range, SWR. It has a TDR function. It can be used to measure values (resistance and reactance, impedance) of inductors, capacitors, resistors. It can be used to measure the response curves of filters. It can be used to measure the gain and frequency response of preamps, amplifiers, etc. The TinySA is not meant to do any of these things.
The TinySA may give you a glimmer of loss of coax, but it won't be as accurate as the NanoVNA. It certainly doesn't have a TDR function. But it can tell you if a circuit is oscillating, or if it has spurious signals. It can tell if there are outputs at harmonics of an amplifier. It can tell you what RF signals are present in an area. I have a couple microwave circuits that use copper pipe caps as bandpass filters. The circuits are frequency multipliers. The TinySA is very useful to make sure I have the pipe cap filters tuned to the correct harmonic of the input, and used to peak the signal at that frequency.
Zack W9SZ
On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 1:26?AM David J Taylor via <davidtaylor= [email protected]> wrote: On 01/04/2025 22:39, kox.jeroen via wrote:
> Hello,
> I have a tinySA Ultra+ and I would like to measure a 50ohm coax cable, anyone
> who can help me out how to do this? I guess you can use the CAL output in
> combination with the RF input? I would like to see how many dB loss I have in
> the range of lets say 470Mhz-600Mhz.
> Thanks!
Sounds more like a job for a NanoVNA!
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web:
Email: davidtaylor@...
BlueSky: @gm8arv.bsky.social, Twitter: @gm8arv
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Locked
Re: Help ! Calling Ghostbusters.
As others have rightly pointed out, your system is the very definition of RF Hell, but let me throw in my two cents.
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1) You have put too much faith in wifi. Too many devices, perhaps too many operating on 2.4 GHz, perhaps too much reliance on large bandwidth protocol selection, perhaps overlapping channels. For instance, why so many wifi light bulbs at the same location if you probably do not operate them independently? Use a single wifi switch (Such as Tapo or Meross) to control several standard LED bulbs at once (also cheaper to replace when they die).
?
2) Probably too many sources of RFI, such as solar inverters, EV chargers, etc. Not much you can do about that, but a TinySA may indeed help you to identify the main culprits.
?
3) Probably lots of intermodulation with so many RF sources mixing with one another on every wire mesh fence, every door hinge, every rusty bolt. Not much you can do about this, but it can definitely raise your background noise level. Again, a TinySA can help you to measure background noise levels. A total blackout measurement could provide you with a useful noise base level to compare against in the different frequency bands, but I do understand that may be easier said than done.
?
Start by checking out the quality of your cell connection. If you were based in Europe, I would recommend you load your Android phone with an app called Network Cell Info. Don't know if they support USA frequency bands and protocols, but if they do, absolutely try it. It will tell you the truth about the actual cell service you are getting, carrier promises notwithstanding. If they don't serve your area well, look for something similar. Notice I said Android, because Apple severely restrict the capabilities of this type of app, so do not even bother with an iPhone. Pay special attention to signal levels (which will speak to their coverage) and signal to noise ratios, which will speak (to some degree) to your locally induced interference.
?
As for the TinySA, it can do wonders for you in this application. I make my living as a professional engineer, I have one Tektronix top-of-the-line SA and one field level Rohde&Schwartz SA, and still I resort to my two TinySA's most of the time. The catch is that spectrum analyzers are tricky instrument to use effectively. You need to have a solid grasp what they do and how they do it before you can draw conclusions.
?
So buy a TinySA, just make sure you buy from an authorized source (I believe it's stateside), and don't scrimp, get the Ultra version if for no other reason than the larger screen. Oh, and do it quick before tariffs hit you, LOL.
?
Hope this helps.
?
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On 01/04/2025 22:39, kox.jeroen via groups.io wrote: Hello,
I have a tinySA Ultra+ and I would like to measure a 50ohm coax cable, anyone
who can help me out how to do this? I guess you can use the CAL output in
combination with the RF input? I would like to see how many dB loss I have in
the range of lets say 470Mhz-600Mhz.
Thanks! Sounds more like a job for a NanoVNA! David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software for you Web: Email: davidtaylor@... BlueSky: @gm8arv.bsky.social, Twitter: @gm8arv
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Re: Advice on connecting TinySA Ultra to audio amplifier
On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 11:01 PM, Oden, Jon David wrote:
do I need an attenuator between the Ultra and FM antenna input connectors?
For protection of the tinySA I would recommend to use a 20 dB attenuator directly connected to the tinySA RF SMA and ALWAYS leave it on.
Connect the outside of the attenuator SMA connector to chassis ground and the center pin of the SMA to either one of the FM antenna connectors of to the AM antenna connection.
--
Designer of the tinySA
For more info go to
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Re: Input RF switch fault found on TinySA ultra
WARNING !!!
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The suggested method of getting off the bad chip is very rude and dangerous!
This may be practical with bigger chips, but not with so tiny ones!
Not knowing if traces cross right below pins, I would be extremely careful with using any kind of cutter to cut off the pins. When the pin is cut, the blade usually hits the surface of the PCB and can hurt the trace below.
Also, the cutter bends the pin away from chip-body when it slides in between Chip-body and separated pin. This causes a lot of force to the soldering pad. If this ens in a lost solder pad (we talk here of almost microscopic dimensions(!), you can throw away the PCB.
If using a soldering iron is desired, I recommend bending a copper wire in U-shape, just wide enough to get the Chip-body in between. This way the copper is in direct touch with all chip pins at same time and the copper allows heating up all pins simultaneously (spreads the heat). Now apply so much solder/tin to the top of the chip-body that it reaches both sides of the "U". Wait until solder joins are molten, then pick up the chip and Copper-U with a fine squeezers.
It is wise to cover surrounding area with some tape (the yellow one for higher temperature) to protect it from tin drops.
But - honestly - hot air is definitely the better choice.???? -> I am talking of a hot air reflow workstation, not a hot-air-gun from supermarket.
Am Dienstag, 1. April 2025, 22:34:41 CEST schrieben Sie:
> 1) Remove the chip body by using the cutters to snip off all the leads close
> to the chip body.
> 2) Using the very fine tipped, temperature controlled
> soldering iron heat and remove the remaining leads with the tweezers one at
> a time.
> 3) Carefully remove the remaining old solder on the footprint pads
> with solder wick. 4) Using the Q tips clean the footprint area with
> isopropyl alcohol. 5) Examine the footprint carefully and ensure all the
> pads are isolated from each other. 6) Whilst ensuring the correct chip
> orientation solder in the new replacement chip by just wetting the pads
> using a minimal amount of solder 7) Inspect the install to ensure no
> adjacent pins have been accidentally bridged with solder.
>
> I hope this info is found helpful and good luck!
>
> 73
> Tom
> VA7TA
>
>
>
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Hartmut
Donald S Brant Jr
W5CDT
David J Taylor