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Date

Re: TinySA as Frequency Counter? #features

 

The frequency indicated on a marker has the accuracy of half the selected RBW of 100Hz minimum
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For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/


TinySA as Frequency Counter? #features

 

Can TSA be used / set up as frequency counter covering? 0 - 150 Mhz ? - That is LW, MW, SW / HF and VHF.
If it can, then it would be so cool.


Re: #tinysa What do you use your TinySA for what applications or purposes? #tinysa

 

On Thu, 02 Mar 2023 06:34:01 -0800
"PDXer" <budkor22@...> wrote:

So what do you yours for most, and what other purposes? And how do you feel about the device? Is it still a good device good value for money in your opinion?
I have both the original TinySA and the Ultra. They are very good devices within their limitations and excellent values. Support from Erik is top notch. The "cool factor" of being small enough to wear as a fashion accessory can't be beat. (Just kidding, but I have been tempted...).

I use them for finding signals on the air around me and for hunting interference. They complement my LAN-IQ Standalone SDR nicely. The Ultra especially. Convenient for general walkarounds, wide band scans, and screen capture of signals of interest. OTOH the LAN-IQ excels at real time display of narrow chunks of spectrum (under 2 MHz) with excellent sensitivity and high quality demodulation useful for hearing the signals as I would on my big radio. Both have become essential tools in the shed and I can't see how I survived all these years without them. The perfect tool might be a TinySA Ultra+ that can optionally switch to SDR architecture for narrow frequency spreads but I imagine that would complicate things quite a bit.

On the test bench I use them to look at signals in radios of course. Have not had a lot of bench time with them yet but they are easier to manage than lugging around my big HP. One specific task that I have found them useful for is checking harmonics on those infamous Chinese hand held VHF/UHF rigs. They track very closely with what my HP has told me previously.

My other frequent use is a sanity check for when I operate my ham rig on FT modes remotely from another room in the house. The Tinys are perfect for quickly checking that my transmitter is doing what it should be doing without having to actually run to the shack.

More uses will come to light in the fullness of time.

73

-Jim
NU0C


Re: #tinysa What do you use your TinySA for what applications or purposes? #tinysa

 

I use the TinySA for verification that my transmitters meet FCC requirements.? With a high-impedance active probe, I also use it to trace RF signals from oscillators through IF circuits.

73
Evan
AC9TU


Re: #tinysa What do you use your TinySA for what applications or purposes? #tinysa

 

I use mine mostly as a signal generator to test/align receivers.
--
John AE5X


Re: #tinysa What do you use your TinySA for what applications or purposes? #tinysa

 

For antenna fieldstrength measurements to measure the actual antenna gain and radiation pattern by using a nanovna for rf source to the test antenna and tsa ultra with a hb9cv antenna to measure the fieldstrength, accurate enough for portable and independent of long cables which may influence the reading.

Zero span is useful for quick indication of the fieldstrength while holding the ultra and antenna to confirm radiation pattern etc, it just needs to be out of the direct sunlight in the early evening.

And to check local repeaters output and sensitivity with a "reference antenna" which is basically any antenna which is fixed in it's position.
Then writing the repeaters signal strength down in a small book to be used if a repeater has a problem.
The signals are normally very stable over many years and by comparing the notes in the book you can establish if it is the repeater or your reference antenna
has changed in comparison with other repeaters, if all repeaters are lower than before it's your antenna for instance.

This is also done commercially and with good reason as it verifies the quality of the installation under test.

Just be aware of antenna coupling to transmitters when using spectrum analyzers like the tiny, i let others do the keying up of the repeaters!


Re: As RFI locator...

 

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Hi Martin,

Australia was in a similar situation to the UK. In fact, our Post Master General's (PMG) Department was basically a lift of the British Telecom model. We also had the "anti-tinkle" wiring.

We were dreadfully highly regulated for many years. I worked for a company in Canberra which pioneered VDSL in this country at a time when our Telecom, later Telstra, was literally still playing with ADSL(1).
It used Marconi ATM VDSL(1) equipment with a Fibre to the Node model. We then connected to the premises via our own Cat5 cable leadin up to a maximum of 330 metres.

Once inside, we were confronted with various different cabling topologies. The most insidious of these was the "star" connection from the First Socket Outlet which was "sacrosanct" and technically, and legally, could not be "interfered" with. This meant we could have up to 5 or 6 stubs going to various phone points in the premises.
Any modification had to be done by a technician from Telecom, which had a monopoly on the POTS infrastructure. They were not very "responsive" to customer requests for changes to facilitate connection of our equipment and charged an arm and a leg for their "services". An absolute nightmare.

Things are a bit more relaxed now, but technically telecoms cabling can only be installed or modified by Registered Cablers. The Carrier demarcation point, now called the Network Boundary (NTD), is either a box on the outside of the building where the carrier leadin terminates or in older buildings, the leadin at the first phone socket.

Prior to that I worked for another organisation developing secure comms equipment. Powerline Carrier, as Ethernet extenders were known as then, were a very hot topic and Amateur band notching was a highly contentious issue until the ITU got involved and brought some sanity to the argument. These systems also used some frequencies common to ADSL and VDSL, so there were constant battles with interference between all three technologies.

As you so eloquently put it, "Interference hunting and 'killing' can be a hobby in its own right."

Happy hunting:-)

Cheers...Bob VK2ZRE


On 22/02/2023 11:58 pm, Martin via groups.io wrote:

Hi Bob,

The main problem with VDSL, and before that ADSL in the UK, is that the Telecom provider only really ad responsibility up to the wall plate, the rest was self installed.

The best you could hope for was that the Teelcoms company would turn up and replace the existing wall plate with a correctly filtered version, but more often that not, you would simply receive a modem in the post along with some line filters, that were supposed to be fitted between the phones in use and the modem itself.

The problem with this is that very often people had installed additional phone sockets, and either didn't bother fitting the filters, or fitted them in the wrong places, so they didn't do what they were supposed to.

UK phone sockets also had a third wire which separates out the bell circuit. This was a legacy of the older phones with rotary pulse dialling, which used to cause the bell to ring when a number was dialled. This wire was often referred to as the 'anti tinkle circuit', and it has the effect of unbalancing the otherwise balanced pair used for the modem and speech circuits.

One final issue is that, unlike in some other countries, there was no notching of the Amateur bands, even though the equipment had the capability, it was never implemented.

Fortunately there is a big push to move everyone across to fibre to the home by 2025, so hopefully the DSL problems will simply go away.

Ethernet mains adaptors are a separate issue. Modern home routers and mesh connected nodes are a lot better at providing whole house coverage than original wireless routers used to be. But I think folks who did once require them, and may no longer need them at all, are still leaving them running because they don't realise that they are no longer doing anything other than adding to the electricity bill. Fortunately the majority of these are notched, so the problem is a lot less worse than it could have been, and I guess that a lot of them will soon be reaching the end of their life and simply pack up.

Even the other bane of interference, switched mode supplies and 'wall wart' chargers, actually seem to be getting better, and some I've acquired recently, that were supplied with various new products, have been pretty tame, especially in comparison to some older models that? were also made in China.

Interference hunting and 'killing' can be a hobby in its own right.

Regards,

Martin


Re: #tinysa What do you use your TinySA for what applications or purposes? #tinysa

 

Recently I have used TinySA to adjust frequencies and working levels of DTT signal distribution amplifiers, avoiding intermodulations and achieving a flat response in the distribution line.
I also use it to adjust frequency and level of analog PAL modulators for UHF/VHF channels.
I have also used it to adjust the transmission and reception frequencies of walky talkies.
I also use it to monitor the output of RF home automation controls, and to be able to read what is being sent.?
Also to monitor the operation of remote controls of remote controlled cars.
?
You can find the TinySA useful for any signal you want to monitor, or to see if there are nearby signals that can cause interference, always within the specified frequency range (up to 960 MHz for the TinySA). If you need to look at higher frequencies you should opt for the TinySA Ultra.?They are very easy to use and their performance and accuracy are unsurpassed for the price. I am very happy to have them.
?


Re: #tinysa What do you use your TinySA for what applications or purposes? #tinysa

 

The name "Spectrum Analyzer" says it all.? It operates in the frequency domain unlike an o'scope which operates in the time domain unlike a Vector Network Analyzer which operates in the impedance domain.? "Spectrum Analyzer" is all you need to understand its applications.

Dave - W?LEV


On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 8:42?PM allen KC2KLC <groups.io_user@...> wrote:
I have many uses or mine, among which is using it to monitor large swaths of radio spectrum for activity (hooked up to an external antenna; I use the peak hold feature to monitor while I'm doing other things, then come back to see if any previously unknown signals have shown up). It is possible to do this with an SDR, but the TinySA covers WAY more bandwidth at a time.



--
Dave - W?LEV



Re: #tinysa What do you use your TinySA for what applications or purposes? #tinysa

allen KC2KLC
 

I have many uses or mine, among which is using it to monitor large swaths of radio spectrum for activity (hooked up to an external antenna; I use the peak hold feature to monitor while I'm doing other things, then come back to see if any previously unknown signals have shown up). It is possible to do this with an SDR, but the TinySA covers WAY more bandwidth at a time.


Re: tinySA Ultra and total noise power #specifications

 

Thank you!


Re: tinySA Ultra and total noise power #specifications

 

When not used above 800MHz the input low pass filter removes all power above 800 MHz so the answer is 800 MHz
Do not measure noise above 800MHz as the Ultra mode does work well with noise
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For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/


tinySA Ultra and total noise power #specifications

 

When using a noise source with a spectrum analyzer one has to think about the total power that goes into the SA. Erik outlined this this excellent video from about a year ago:



In this example Erik shows that his noise power level is around -30dBm with a resolution bandwidth of 621kHz on a standard tinySA. If we assume the noise source is flat over the entire band to 350MHz (563 times wider than the RBW of 621kHz) we can expect the total power to be NP=-30 + 10*log (563) = -3dBm which is below the maximum limit of 10dBm for the tinySA. Erik also shows that with an actual channel measurement in his video.

?

?

However, when it comes to tinySA Ultra the maximum input power is 6dBm only and the fact that it has a wider bandwidth the total noise power consideration is even more important. On top of that we have two modes of operation - in the normal mode the upper frequency is 800MHz and in the Ultra mode it changes to 3GHz but it can be used higher than that. Thus, over what frequency band do we have to integrate the noise power over to figure out if the input mixer in the tinySA Ultra will be overloaded or not? 800MHz? 3GHz? Or even higher?


tinySA Ultra and total noise power #specifications

 

When using a noise source with a spectrum analyzer one has to think about the total power that goes into the SA. Erik outlined this this excellent video from about a year ago:



In this example Erik shows that his noise power level is around -30dBm with a resolution bandwidth of 621kHz on a standard tinySA. If we assume the noise source is flat over the entire band to 350MHz (563 times wider than the RBW of 621kHz) we can expect the total power to be NP=-30 + 10*log (563) = -3dBm which is below the maximum limit of 10dBm for the tinySA. Erik also shows that with an actual channel measurement in his video.

?

?

However, when it comes to tinySA Ultra the maximum input power is 6dBm only and the fact that it has a wider bandwidth the total noise power consideration is even more important. On top of that we have two modes of operation - in the normal mode the upper frequency is 800MHz and in the Ultra mode it changes to 3GHz but it can be used higher than that. Thus, over what frequency band do we have to integrate the noise power over to figure out if the input mixer in the tinySA Ultra will be overloaded or not? 800MHz? 3GHz? Or even higher?


Re: #tinysa What do you use your TinySA for what applications or purposes? #tinysa

 

Hi all,

I use a tinySA ultra as a portable instrument where it is impractical to haul my heavy bench SA. Also have a pair?of tinySA (not ultra) that perform sig gen duty and also a tinyVna repurposed as a tinyPFA for on the spot validation of 10 Mhz references.

As a microwave rover the tools are indispensable. When you are traveling down a dusty road looking for a place where you might be able to work on a falling piece of equipment and not knowing what you are about to find, it¡¯s reassuring that you have these tools with you and they are not taking up much space.?

Typical recent applications:
We just finished building?custom pcbs (design from PA0MHE)?that drive surplus Wavelab ODUs on 24 GHz. Two of these units are fully integrated and on the air following a month of construction. The tinySA ultra saw bench and field?use to validate the two LO frequencies generated by the ATTINY85 on the pcb 1819 & 2220?MHz?as well as the mixer RF?input levels and output levels and frequency (2364 case 144 MHz IF). Careful use of probes is good for a quick check but during construction we used direct attached/soldered sma pigtails for measurement samples and also for signal generator injection (from tinySA).?

Beyond basic checks like above, the instruments are capable of deeper analysis in RF work. Reading recent test processes described?such as the IMD analysis posted in last 24 hours is both interesting and educational.

73,
Jim
KM5PO
President, North Texas Microwave Society




On Thursday, March 2, 2023, 8:34 AM, PDXer <budkor22@...> wrote:

1. I have got a TinySA initially for building a HF receiver.? I thought it can be used for sniffing the IF oscillators and crystals with the probes for RF and possibly tells what the frequency is and what sort of output power is oscillating from them.

2. Sometimes, I try to check RF sources in the house for detecting any stray or mysterious RFs floating around.? So far my TinySA detected 1x RF source at 225 Mhz, and it seems coming from the outside across the main road, in some garage, or next door neighbors house.

3. And I used the TinySA as a signal generator, and seen the sine waves in my handheld oscilloscope.

So what do you yours for most, and what other purposes? And how do you feel about the device? Is it still a good device good value for money in your opinion?

??


#tinysa What do you use your TinySA for what applications or purposes? #tinysa

 

1. I have got a TinySA initially for building a HF receiver.? I thought it can be used for sniffing the IF oscillators and crystals with the probes for RF and possibly tells what the frequency is and what sort of output power is oscillating from them.

2. Sometimes, I try to check RF sources in the house for detecting any stray or mysterious RFs floating around.? So far my TinySA detected 1x RF source at 225 Mhz, and it seems coming from the outside across the main road, in some garage, or next door neighbors house.

3. And I used the TinySA as a signal generator, and seen the sine waves in my handheld oscilloscope.

So what do you yours for most, and what other purposes? And how do you feel about the device? Is it still a good device good value for money in your opinion?

??


Re: TinySA ULTRA - Input specs have changed?

 

Thanks for noticing, Wiki changed
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For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/


TinySA ULTRA - Input specs have changed?

 

Hi all, I just received my TinySA Ultra from Zeenko - It's amazing! However, I have noticed that the max input printed on the case has changed down to "+6dDm RF / 5VDC Max". This was (and is still shown on the TinySA.org website as "+10dBm RF / 10VDC Max".?

?

Is there an known reason for this change??

?

73


Re: New Ultra FW release: Added multi trace option to multi band

 

Another small anomaly:

ZERO SPAN with certain (most) SWEEP TIME settings causes the grid to shift slightly with successive sweeps. For example, ZERO SPAN at 10MHz and SWEEP TIME of 1 second.


Re: New Ultra FW release: trigger beep, multi band scanning and reduced waterfall height

 

Should have added as an extra check.

Look at both sets of IP3 frequencies and use pair with worst case values.