When using a noise source with a spectrum analyzer one has to think about the total power that goes into the SA. Erik outlined this this excellent video from about a year ago:
In this example Erik shows that his noise power level is around -30dBm with a resolution bandwidth of 621kHz on a standard tinySA. If we assume the noise source is flat over the entire band to 350MHz (563 times wider than the RBW of 621kHz) we can expect the total power to be NP=-30 + 10*log (563) = -3dBm which is below the maximum limit of 10dBm for the tinySA. Erik also shows that with an actual channel measurement in his video.
?
?
However, when it comes to tinySA Ultra the maximum input power is 6dBm only and the fact that it has a wider bandwidth the total noise power consideration is even more important. On top of that we have two modes of operation - in the normal mode the upper frequency is 800MHz and in the Ultra mode it changes to 3GHz but it can be used higher than that. Thus, over what frequency band do we have to integrate the noise power over to figure out if the input mixer in the tinySA Ultra will be overloaded or not? 800MHz? 3GHz? Or even higher?
|
Re: #tinysa What do you use your TinySA for what applications or purposes?
#tinysa
Hi all,
I use a tinySA ultra as a portable instrument where it is impractical to haul my heavy bench SA. Also have a pair?of tinySA (not ultra) that perform sig gen duty and also a tinyVna repurposed as a tinyPFA for on the spot validation of 10 Mhz references.
As a microwave rover the tools are indispensable. When you are traveling down a dusty road looking for a place where you might be able to work on a falling piece of equipment and not knowing what you are about to find, it’s reassuring that you have these tools with you and they are not taking up much space.?
Typical recent applications: We just finished building?custom pcbs (design from PA0MHE)?that drive surplus Wavelab ODUs on 24 GHz. Two of these units are fully integrated and on the air following a month of construction. The tinySA ultra saw bench and field?use to validate the two LO frequencies generated by the ATTINY85 on the pcb 1819 & 2220?MHz?as well as the mixer RF?input levels and output levels and frequency (2364 case 144 MHz IF). Careful use of probes is good for a quick check but during construction we used direct attached/soldered sma pigtails for measurement samples and also for signal generator injection (from tinySA).?
Beyond basic checks like above, the instruments are capable of deeper analysis in RF work. Reading recent test processes described?such as the IMD analysis posted in last 24 hours is both interesting and educational.
73, Jim KM5PO President, North Texas Microwave Society
On Thursday, March 2, 2023, 8:34 AM, PDXer <budkor22@...> wrote: 1. I have got a TinySA initially for building a HF receiver.? I thought it can be used for sniffing the IF oscillators and crystals with the probes for RF and possibly tells what the frequency is and what sort of output power is oscillating from them.
2. Sometimes, I try to check RF sources in the house for detecting any stray or mysterious RFs floating around.? So far my TinySA detected 1x RF source at 225 Mhz, and it seems coming from the outside across the main road, in some garage, or next door neighbors house.
3. And I used the TinySA as a signal generator, and seen the sine waves in my handheld oscilloscope.
So what do you yours for most, and what other purposes? And how do you feel about the device? Is it still a good device good value for money in your opinion?
??
|
#tinysa What do you use your TinySA for what applications or purposes?
#tinysa
1. I have got a TinySA initially for building a HF receiver.? I thought it can be used for sniffing the IF oscillators and crystals with the probes for RF and possibly tells what the frequency is and what sort of output power is oscillating from them.
2. Sometimes, I try to check RF sources in the house for detecting any stray or mysterious RFs floating around.? So far my TinySA detected 1x RF source at 225 Mhz, and it seems coming from the outside across the main road, in some garage, or next door neighbors house.
3. And I used the TinySA as a signal generator, and seen the sine waves in my handheld oscilloscope.
So what do you yours for most, and what other purposes? And how do you feel about the device? Is it still a good device good value for money in your opinion?
??
|
Re: TinySA ULTRA - Input specs have changed?
Thanks for noticing, Wiki changed --
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/
|
TinySA ULTRA - Input specs have changed?
Hi all, I just received my TinySA Ultra from Zeenko - It's amazing! However, I have noticed that the max input printed on the case has changed down to "+6dDm RF / 5VDC Max". This was (and is still shown on the TinySA.org website as "+10dBm RF / 10VDC Max".?
?
Is there an known reason for this change??
?
73
|
Re: New Ultra FW release: Added multi trace option to multi band
Another small anomaly:
ZERO SPAN with certain (most) SWEEP TIME settings causes the grid to shift slightly with successive sweeps. For example, ZERO SPAN at 10MHz and SWEEP TIME of 1 second.
|
Re: New Ultra FW release: trigger beep, multi band scanning and reduced waterfall height
Should have added as an extra check.
Look at both sets of IP3 frequencies and use pair with worst case values.
|
Re: New Ultra FW release: trigger beep, multi band scanning and reduced waterfall height
My typical IMD workflow.
Test configuration
Two tone test source feeding stepped attenuator, feeding DUT, feeding fixed value power attenuator, feeding switched notch filter, feeding SA.
Set stepped attenuator to give output of DUT at approx 10 to 20dB below saturated output level
Measure output level with SA via fixed attenuator, with notch filter off.
Setup SA to track test tone peak levels, and add level offset for value of external fixed power attenuator.
Switch in notch filter and note level reduction of test tones, compensate for notch attenuation as additional offset in calculations and displayed values.
As the SA should track the test tones in frequency and level, any drift in test sources should be continuously compensated for.
The test tone frequencies and compensated levels can then be used to accurately and automatically set and track the IMD component measurement markers in a narrow bandwidth, in order to maximise the dynamic range.
The IMD traces will be at a lower level than the test tone level, even though these are notched for measurement purposes, so the SA noise floor with the DUT running may have to be used to determine the optimum reference level for these measurements.
The marker information can then be used to directly calculate the IP2 & IP3 values and display them.
As a confidence check an extra 3dB can be switched in to the SA input and the calculated values should not vary by more than approx +/-1dB from the previous measurement without the extra 3dB.
The stepped attenuator on the DUT input can also be varied to determine the effect on IMD values at different power levels up to the DUT saturation point.
I hope this makes sense.
Regards,
Martin
|
TinySASaver runtime error on OSX: "AttributeError: module 'numpy' has no attribute 'complex'. `np.complex` was a deprecated alias for the builtin `complex`."
#bug_report
Trying to install TinySASaver on my Mac/OSX. Python 3.11. When I run the app, I get the following error. Is there an easy way to fix it? ?? tinysa-saver git:(master) TinySASaver
Traceback (most recent call last):
? File "/usr/local/bin/TinySASaver", line 5, in <module>
? ? from TinySASaver.__main__ import main
? File "/usr/local/lib/python3.11/site-packages/TinySASaver/__main__.py", line 23, in <module>
? ? from .TinySASaver import TinySASaver
? File "/usr/local/lib/python3.11/site-packages/TinySASaver/TinySASaver.py", line 36, in <module>
? ? from .Calibration import CalibrationWindow, Calibration
? File "/usr/local/lib/python3.11/site-packages/TinySASaver/Calibration.py", line 815, in <module>
? ? class Calibration:
? File "/usr/local/lib/python3.11/site-packages/TinySASaver/Calibration.py", line 834, in Calibration
? ? shortIdeal = np.complex(-1, 0)
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^^^^^^^^^^
? File "/usr/local/lib/python3.11/site-packages/numpy/__init__.py", line 305, in __getattr__
? ? raise AttributeError(__former_attrs__[attr])
AttributeError: module 'numpy' has no attribute 'complex'.
`np.complex` was a deprecated alias for the builtin `complex`. To avoid this error in existing code, use `complex` by itself. Doing this will not modify any behavior and is safe. If you specifically wanted the numpy scalar type, use `np.complex128` here.
The aliases was originally deprecated in NumPy 1.20; for more details and guidance see the original release note at:
? ? https://numpy.org/devdocs/release/1.20.0-notes.html#deprecations. Did you mean: 'complex_'?
|
Re: New Ultra FW release: trigger beep, multi band scanning and reduced waterfall height
I forgot to add.
The ability to switch in an attenuator quickly as part of the test, to check for any SA contribution (hopefully none) would ?be very useful and save a lot of menu hopping.
|
Re: New Ultra FW release: trigger beep, multi band scanning and reduced waterfall height
Hi Erik,
Yes I think X+Y and either 2X+Y or X+2Y would be ideal.
Maybe allow selection of one or the other of the latter pair, or separate out IP 2 & IP3 measurements ?
Personally I like to see both IP2 & IP3 (either pair) at the same time, as I often use these whist adjusting amplifier bias current in order to find the best compromise between the two.
Regards,
Martin
|
Re: TinySA Ultra First Setup Notes
WiKi updated
Thank you so much Eric for updating that quickly !
Jos
|
Re: New Ultra FW release: Added multi trace option to multi band
That makes sense, of course. ;-)
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 28, 2023, at 11:12 PM, Erik Kaashoek <erik@...> wrote:
?On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 06:12 PM, Terry Perdue wrote:
* LOCK DISPLAY: Once locked, there's no way to unlock. Then the only way to access the LOCK DISPLAY menu again is to press the jog wheel, but the menu items don't respond.
You have to activate the unlock menu with the jog switch: down, right, right, down This to prevent accidental unlock Thanks for the other bug ? --
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/
|
Re: New Ultra FW release: Added multi trace option to multi band
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 06:12 PM, Terry Perdue wrote:
* LOCK DISPLAY: Once locked, there's no way to unlock. Then the only way to access the LOCK DISPLAY menu again is to press the jog wheel, but the menu items don't respond.
You have to activate the unlock menu with the jog switch: down, right, right, down This to prevent accidental unlock Thanks for the other bug ? --
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/
|
Yeah, that's the same cell that Batteryhookup.com
is selling for $0.99 each (like I said, the shipping is the
killer, you can order more to stay within the shipping limits
and you'd still be CHEAPER than that one on ebayism.)
Mike C.
On 2/28/2023 7:44 PM, Dewey wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
|
The yellow wire can just be clipped,i.e. not used.
2nd thing is unsolder the the existing wires and use the plug
from the 3000mahr cell and use it on the 4500mahr cell, simple,
yes.
Mike C.
On 2/28/2023 10:26 PM, Clyde Lambert
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Look very close. There are 3 leads on the battery.
Red, Black and in between, yellow.
It is not the same as the one in the TinySA
which is a two wire connector.
Clyde KC7BJE?
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:30 PM
Mike C. < mg@...>
wrote:
Nope, here's the link:?
Look carefully at the picture, it's there. They did give
the dimensions but in English units.
Mike C. Sand Mtn GA
On 2/28/2023 6:18 PM, David Massey wrote:
"755275"
didn't yield any result in a search on their website.?
Typo?
|
Look very close. There are 3 leads on the battery. Red, Black and in between, yellow. It is not the same as the one in the TinySA which is a two wire connector. Clyde KC7BJE?
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:30 PM Mike C. < mg@...> wrote:
Nope, here's the link:?
Look carefully at the picture, it's there. They did give the
dimensions but in English units.
Mike C. Sand Mtn GA
On 2/28/2023 6:18 PM, David Massey
wrote:
"755275" didn't yield any
result in a search on their website.? Typo?
|
Nope, here's the link:?
Look carefully at the picture, it's there. They did give the
dimensions but in English units.
Mike C. Sand Mtn GA
On 2/28/2023 6:18 PM, David Massey
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
"755275" didn't yield any
result in a search on their website.? Typo?
|
Re: New Ultra FW release: Added multi trace option to multi band
I like the way this works, but I have some observations...
* LOCK DISPLAY: Once locked, there's no way to unlock. Then the only
way to access the LOCK DISPLAY menu again is to press the jog wheel,
but the menu items don't respond.
* Recalling a MULTI BAND file from the memory card doesn't start the
MULTI BAND function. It has to be switched off and back on first.
* The BIG NUMBER and WATERFALL do work when MULTI BAND is
on, as long as MULTI TRACE is off.
On 2/28/2023 2:31 AM, Erik Kaashoek
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
New Ultra FW release
Version V1.4067
Changes:
- Added a MULTI TRACE option to the MULTI BAND menu. Enabling this
option will scan the bands in a consecutive traces instead of
scanning all bands in one trace. WARNING: at least waterfall does
not work in this mode but other problems may emerge
The purpose of this release is to get feedback on this MULTI BAND
feature. If you are not interested in this feature there is no
need to install this new FW.
- Is it MULTI BAND usable?
- Where does it brake? (it will for sure brake certain
features)
--
For more info on the tinySA go to
|
This has a three wire connector.
Larry
|
Jim
Paul - AI7JR
Mike C.
Clyde Lambert
Larry McElhiney