When I visited the south portal during the time of rail pulling there were no structures or remnants of structures that would have drawn my attention.? There was a very well-maintained track oiler on the curve leading to the tunnel that showed good maintenance up until the end.? Also in my "somewhere" slides is a photo of the oiler--maybe I copied it for Warren?
Arnold Eaves
On 04/27/2022 3:08 PM Warren Stephens <wdstephens@...> wrote:
Well I did have time to take a fleeting glance at the valuation map for the section of track that included the tunnel. It listed that building we discussed as "watchman's house?" There was a small structure on the south portal that was listed as "watchman's shanty?" Having only seen post merger pics of the south portal, I have no idea what still stood on the south side of the tunnel when Southern took over. Post merger pics from the north portal indicate that Southern demolished everything standing on the north side. Somewhere I have a clearance diagram of the TAG tunnel. If I can remember where I stashed it I'll try to scan and post it too. My wife, to whom I have been married 30 years next month, periodically straitens my office. It is a mixed blessing. Sometimes things are brought to the surface I forgot I had. Case in point, I recently rediscovered a rail map of greater Chattanooga I forgot I had. Sort of like the Le Brea tar pits, things are always sinking or rising back to the surface.? ? ??
Warren
On Tuesday, April 26, 2022, 05:07:53 PM EDT, Warren Stephens <wdstephens@...> wrote:
Boy autocorrect always wears me out. That previous email is rough boy. Bill I work odd hours. I head to work at 1pm and get home at 1am the following day. I am just time deficient on a workday with all else that has to be crammed in ?So when I get a day off I¡¯ll look at those Val maps. I¡¯ll see about posting a pic of the south end. It may be a while because the next few off days are full with other plans like seeing my parents and my daughter¡¯s birthday etc.?
Warren
On Apr 26, 2022, at 3:45 PM, Warren Stephens <wdstephens@...> wrote:
Bill with regard to my comments on the building, I did note the lack of accommodations for motor cars and the steps. I do feel very strongly that it is the train order station based on the construction of other TAG wooden depots. The orientation of the building is the only thing that I find odd. I suppose I should have simply started that I couldn¡¯t be absolutely sure about it rather than offer another possibility. If I have my doubts about a notion I like to make that known because speculation is often taken as gospel. The old SMURF list was full of that sort of thing. People making unsupported statements as if they were fact. I¡¯ll have to look at valuation maps and see what they indicate. I should have done that first I guess.?
I have a friend who will remain nameless. He is a cereal trespasser. Hey, recently he drove way out on the UP causeway over the Great Salt Lake! And got away with it! Along about 1998 or so he convinced me to try and visit the south portal, and we did. Southern erected sears fences in front of both portals when the removed the track. The one on the south end was still in place back then. People ripped the one down at the north end almost immediately. Naturally I had no camera that day. I do however have pics taken by the late great Bob Sironen. I also believe Arnold gave me an extra from those he took. Bob also photographed the rail removal train. Pulled by high hood GP30s which in my opinion are the ugliest locomotives EMD ever made. And of all the post merger pics I have ever seen; the only example of a Southern freight locomotives on TAG. All other post merger pics depict former TAG engines in Southern paint. The only exception to this is Southern detoured passenger engines/trains - the Pelican - in the pre merger era when there was a derailment on the AGS. I think I have photographs of three of these detours. Two in the mid 50s when the Pelican was still a handsome train and one very late 60s train where it was a mostly a headend filthy mutt. I don¡¯t know if Southern purposely assigned former TAG geeps to trains over TAG or if it was simply coincidence.?
Warren
On Apr 26, 2022, at 2:17 PM, arnoldeaves <aseaves@...> wrote:
Bill,
I made several slides of the south portal a few days before the tracks were removed.? The removal train was parked a couple of hundred yards to the south (this was on a weekend when my father and I trekked back there).
Arnold
On 04/26/2022 12:21 PM Bill Delmar <bdelmar.list@...> wrote:
Thanks for all the details, Warren, very interesting. I agree with you the building is probably not a motorcar shed as it has steps up to the door. Also motorcar sheds don't need windows. I do not see any material such as ties in the gauge that would assist in turning and taking a motorcar off the track. There is what appears to be an old pushcart at the left edge of the photo,?perhaps sitting on ties.?
I don't recall ever seeing a photo of the south portal, maybe there is one out there.
On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 11:44 AM Warren Stephens <
wdstephens@...> wrote:
Arnold is correct that is the north portal. Do you see how the track is straight leading into the tunnel and how the portal is directly on the face of the mountain? If it had been the south side, there would be a gentle curve leading into the portal and the portal would be set back into a rock faced cut and not flush like that. There was at the time this photo was taken, a water tank to the right of the photographer. Most people try to include it in their picture and therefore only a portion of the building on the left makes it into their image. There was a nighttime operator at the north portal - at least in steam days - this may in fact be the ¡°depot¡± or train order office. It could be a motorcar shed but I doubt it. Why no daylight operator I do not know. And I base this on the limited employee timetables that are known to exist. There may at one time have been a daylight operator. When Estelle was a going concern this may have not felt so isolated but boy I would not want to be in that holler by myself at night. It¡¯s spooky now in broad daylight. On the water tank side and therefore out of this picture there was a flanged wheeled scaffold that could be rolled into the tunnel to work on the roof or inspect it. I think the proper job title of the employees who worked this station would be operator tunnel inspector because in the bad old pre Coverdale days it was most likely inspected daily if not several times a day. When constructed, the tunnel was timber lined. Along about 1917 this lining caught fire and stopped train operation for several days. The brick veneer is only at the ends and was added after the fire. After the timber lining burned they decided to leave it unlined for some reason. Southern sprayed the tunnel bore with gunnite the stuff in ground pools are made of.?
Warren
On Apr 25, 2022, at 8:51 PM, arnoldeaves <aseaves@...> wrote:
I believe it to be the north portal, but wiser heads should weigh in.
Arnold
There is also a good photo of a tunnel portal, which would be Pigeon Mountain, but is it the North or South portal?
On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 5:36 PM Warren Stephens <
wdstephens@...> wrote:
If you click on the pic it takes you to a Flicker page with even more TAG pics. Look at the ones taken inside the shop building. Note the hostlers and consider the fact that they were only a few days away from loosing their job. Only track guys and train crews kept their job. For a few years anyway. All the rest of the roughly 90 TAG folks lost their jobs. The merger was consummated Dec. 31st 1970 at Midnight or Jan. 1st 1971 if you prefer. New Year¡¯s Day 1971. Thanks for posting the link.?
