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Re: External Sound for Laptop with Mono Mic Jack

 

开云体育

Allen,

It is only 48 kHz sampling, and they don’t even tell if it is 24bit or 16bit.
Behringer is usually way overpriced, but this sells for $30 at Guitar Center ($60 MSRP).
On Ebay, you can find much better product for that kind of money.

If money is no object for you, get a device 24bit 192kHz. But then you will have to deal with UAC2 drivers.

Just my $0.02

73 de Jean-Paul (AC9GH)


On Apr 18, 2014, at 2:43 PM, asmhome@... wrote:


Will this external sound device work is a new Ensemble RX/TX? ?With two RCA in and out, RX/TX channels can be jumped with changing internal jumpers.

?
My laptop does not have a Line In, only a mono input jack for a mic.

Allen?
External Sound for Laptop with Mono Mic Jack

 

Will this external sound device work is a new Ensemble RX/TX? ?With two RCA in and out, RX/TX channels can be jumped with changing internal jumpers.

?
My laptop does not have a Line In, only a mono input jack for a mic.

Allen?
Re: ensemble rx ii has a problem

 

I will check on the operations of the USB card, I am leaning towards a cable problem though


On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 12:05 PM, <tharlam@...> wrote:
?

Re. my USB comment. Is the soundcard working OK for other apps, like playing music files,? if so my question re. USB driver is probably not relevant. Is the rx frequency control (which uses the USB) working when you use the "SoftRock Configuration Tool"? The latter should show that the Si570 is connected and succeed in changing the frequency. If that is OK and the display is still not showing the band signals, then I would guess that the USB for the rx is OK (but that USB control dll file has to be in the HDSDR directory as well as in the CFSGR exe directory I think). The cabling from the rx to the soundcard line input (not line output in spite of what it says on the rx) might be worth looking into also. My setup is quite sensitive to the sound cable quality and length. I am new to the SoftRock world myself, so hopefully one of the experts will have the solution for you.
Re: ensemble rx ii has a problem

[email protected]
 

Re. my USB comment. Is the soundcard working OK for other apps, like playing music files,? if so my question re. USB driver is probably not relevant. Is the rx frequency control (which uses the USB) working when you use the "SoftRock Configuration Tool"? The latter should show that the Si570 is connected and succeed in changing the frequency. If that is OK and the display is still not showing the band signals, then I would guess that the USB for the rx is OK (but that USB control dll file has to be in the HDSDR directory as well as in the CFSGR exe directory I think). The cabling from the rx to the soundcard line input (not line output in spite of what it says on the rx) might be worth looking into also. My setup is quite sensitive to the sound cable quality and length. I am new to the SoftRock world myself, so hopefully one of the experts will have the solution for you.
Re: ensemble rx ii has a problem

[email protected]
 

I have seen this display. It is quite dramatic, startling even when you expect to see the normal display. Unfortunately, I can not remember exactly what the problem was in my case but I think what returned my Ensemble II set up to normal function was to unplug either the rx or the soundcard USB and plug it in again. (Do you have the USB drivers for both the rx and the soundcard installed?)
There is another, less dramatic but still abnormal, display that sometimes appears for me where the fix is to change the frequency, even 10 Hz.
Re: SMT/Solder Paste Question

Cecil Bayona
 

A long time ago I was like many convinced by many rumors of how difficult SMT work was, it turned out to be nay say from persons that probably never even tried it.

My first attempt at it was a total disaster , my PCB caught fire. The problem was an oven with horrendous thermal inertial, and a thermometer that was both inaccurate and slow to respond to the real temperature. After that attempt I though about what happened and adjusted the procedure coupled with visual observation, and several dry runs while monitoring the temperatures with a faster thermometer I then went and tried another board and it came out perfect. Since then when I can I make a project use SMT components as I found it easier to work with than leaded components. I've also tried using a embossing air gun and that worked well for building, repairing, and salvaging components.

Once I get my oven controller going then it will be even easier as all the timing and temperature monitoring will be automatic, I have an old controller but I'm not happy with it, that is why I want to build a better one using better thermocouple amplifiers and A/D with a resolution of 1/4 degree.
< >

Since I built the first successful board I have encourage others to try SMT when possible, it's not the scary dragon people make it out to be, in my case it's actually easier to do than leaded components.

At 09:41 AM 4/18/2014, you wrote:
Hi Cecil,

I see that you were very careful andtook precautions that were not mentioned in your previous
email. The ziplock bag in the fridge probably saved your day, as well as the
temperature soaking time.
At work, we used solder paste in 500g jars, and any open jar that was not used in a shift was trashed.
But that was Telecom manufacturing were reliability and quality are a few of prime requirements.
I agree with you, six reflows is pushing your luck.

But we need also to be positive about SMT. This technology is way easier and way better than the now
very old thus mature TH technology.

Hams need not to be scared by those tiny parts. With simple care, they solder easily, and make DIY a
lot of fun. That's why, since I retired, I design SDR stuff, and in a not too distant future, I will introduce
what I see as the next wave in term of SDR Rx/Tx and Test instruments.

73 de
Jean-Paul
AC9GH @ EN61vr99
<mailto:louijp@...>louijp@...





On Apr 18, 2014, at 1:16 AM, Cecil Bayona <<mailto:cbayona@...>cbayona@...> wrote:

I have never experienced the results you mentioned, but I keep your
information in mind, I don't postpone the soldering phase often.

I did it a couple of times because after putting some of the parts
and emergency came up and had to abort. I placed the board in a zip
locked bag in the refrigerator and continued the next day. As a norm
I very slowly ramp the preheat temperature precisely to get rid of
moisture. On those boards I did a very long and slow warm up cycle
since the boards were cold, all the joints were soldered just fine.

Soldering paste doesn't have a very long life in commercial outfits
but using manual paste application I have solder paste that work
quite well after two years, the commercial environment requires the
paste density to be in a very strict range in order to be
automatically applied, manual procedures can accept a larger variance.

I did one experiment where I place a partial parts count and
re-flowed the board, I then did it an additional two times and was
surprised that the components were all fine after some of them were
re-flowed three times, since then I've read some have done as many as
six times but I think you are pushing your luck doing it that many times.

I've bought the components to make an automatic controller for my
Infrawave Oven once that is done then repeatability will improve, and
I can work on other boards while the first batch is proceeding on
auto pilot. I'm thinking of using it for commercial projects.

At 11:35 PM 4/17/2014, you wrote:
Cecil,

You're playing with fire when you wait for reflow,
The solder paste is VERY sensitive to moisture, and the flux
evaporate fairly fast.
So, you end up with crusty paste that might hold the parts a bit,
but you are
almost certain to create cold solder joints, and tons of solder balls.
At all the places I have worked, 6 hours was the shelf life of a
board with solder paste and parts.
Past that time, the PCB was washed and recycled because it was the
most expensive part.
The paste and the inexpensive parts were trashed. Some (very few)
very expensive ICs were recycled.

I understand the hobbyist viewpoint, but please don't suggest that
it is an acceptable practice.

I would suggest to place a few parts and reflow them, then you can
wait, then add fresh solder paste, place parts
and reflow those.
Too many reflows are not good for ICs, but 3 to 4 is OK.
So you can limit the number of reflows by adding heat screens on
your board for the parts already soldered
(aluminum foil makes a good screen)

My $0.02

Jean-Paul (AC9GH)


On Apr 17, 2014, at 11:03 PM, Cecil Bayona
<<<mailto:cbayona@...>mailto:cbayona@...><mailto:cbayona@c
ox.net>cbayona@...> wrote:

From personal experience I've had no problems with putting the
paste and parts and then soldering a few days later, what happened
was that some of the binding oil evaporated but the parts were held
in place by the dried out paste. When placed in the oven the parts
were soldered OK.

It would not be OK if you put the paste but not the parts, when you
go to put in the parts later they would not stick to the pad.

At 08:53 PM 4/17/2014, you wrote:


I am planning the build of an Ensemble RX and I am thinking of
trying the griddle-heat gun reflow method to install the SMT parts.
As far as blocking out time to apply the solder paste and place
individual parts, how long can one let the applied parts stand
without reflow? I would like to break the placement process up over
several days but I am worried that the solder paste will separate or
otherwise degrade if I don't place all the parts and reflow them in
the same session. Can the process be broken up over a period of days
or even a couple of weeks without ruining the already placed parts?
John Stockman, KC2THY
--
Cecil - k5nwa
<
<<>
> >
< <> >

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
--
Cecil - k5nwa
< <> > < >

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
--
Cecil - k5nwa
< > < >

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Re: SMT/Solder Paste Question

 

开云体育

My first surface mount build was an RXTX and I used small solder and a very fine tip.? My second surface mount build was the RX II.? I got the solder paste from KD5SSJ and a Mr. Coffee cup warmer from Wal-Mart to pre-heat the board and a Martha Stewart heat embossing tool from the Hobby store.? I was not going to build the LF version so I marked the parts not used and put a small dap of paste on all the pads used.? I then mounted all the parts, there are not that many parts.? set the board on an aluminum spacer on the cup warmer, plugged it in and waited about 25 minutes until it got to about 85 degrees C.? I then started the heat tool and held it about 4-6 inches above the board and slowly moved it around and around and then started to slowly move it closer watching for the paste to melt.? When the paste melted it turned very shiny and all the parts centered themselves on the pads, amazing.? I then slowly moved the heat away while still moving it around then I turned off the cup warmer and let it sit for about 30 minutes.? Probably took less than 2 hours including the cool down.? If you use a method like this I would only do the heating ONCE as it is not very well controlled heat.? If you have a nice temperature controlled programmed heat oven then maybe heating several times would be OK.? But with so few parts to install I don’t see the reason for breaking up the assembly of the surface mount parts.? I am 72 and it was my first surface mount assembly, although I do design and build a lot of electronics.
?
Mike? W6MXV
?

From: jcs1@...
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2014 9:53 PM
Subject: [softrock40] SMT/Solder Paste Question
?


I am planning the build of an Ensemble RX and I am thinking of trying the griddle-heat gun reflow method to install the SMT parts. As far as blocking out time to apply the solder paste and place individual parts, how long can one let the applied parts stand without reflow? I would like to break the placement process up over several days but I am worried that the solder paste will separate or otherwise degrade if I don't place all the parts and reflow them in the same session. Can the process be broken up over a period of days or even a couple of weeks without ruining the already placed parts??
John Stockman, KC2THY
?
Re: SMT/Solder Paste Question

 

开云体育

So that’s what I’m doing wrong .. I’m forgetting the live chicken sacrifice *Snickers*

?

Doug / W8ZUU

?

From: softrock40@... [mailto:softrock40@...] On Behalf Of William H. Fite
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2014 10:11 AM
To: softrock40@...
Subject: Re: [softrock40] SMT/Solder Paste Question

?

?

Lots of voodoo surrounding solder paste.? Experienced industry people give madly conflicting advice including the sacrifice of a live chicken to assure good joints.?

?

John's advice is best.? Do it all at once.

?

Have a whimsical weekend, everyone!

?

Bill

KJ4SLP

?

On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:33 AM, John Stockman <jcs1@...> wrote:

?

Thank you all, I will plan to do it all in one session. Solder paste is new to me.

John Stockman, KC2THY

?

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



Jean-Paul Louis <louijp@...> wrote:

Cecil,

?

You’re playing with fire when you wait for reflow,

The solder paste is VERY sensitive to moisture, and the flux evaporate fairly fast.

So, you end up with crusty paste that might hold the parts a bit, but you are

almost certain to create cold solder joints, and tons of solder balls.

At all the places I have worked, 6 hours was the shelf life of a board with solder paste and parts.

Past that time, the PCB was washed and recycled because it was the most expensive part.

The paste and the inexpensive parts were trashed. Some (very few) very expensive ICs were recycled.

?

I understand the hobbyist viewpoint, but please don’t suggest that it is an acceptable practice.

?

I would suggest to place a few parts and reflow them, then you can wait, then add fresh solder paste, place parts

and reflow those.

Too many reflows are not good for ICs, but 3 to 4 is OK.

So you can limit the number of reflows by adding heat screens on your board for the parts already soldered

(aluminum foil makes a good screen)

?

My $0.02

?

Jean-Paul (AC9GH)

?

?

On Apr 17, 2014, at 11:03 PM, Cecil Bayona <cbayona@...> wrote:

?

From personal experience I've had no problems with putting the?
paste and parts and then soldering a few days later, what happened?
was that some of the binding oil evaporated but the parts were held?
in place by the dried out paste. When placed in the oven the parts?
were soldered OK.

It would not be OK if you put the paste but not the parts, when you?
go to put in the parts later they would not stick to the pad.

At 08:53 PM 4/17/2014, you wrote:
>
>
>I am planning the build of an Ensemble RX and I am thinking of?
>trying the griddle-heat gun reflow method to install the SMT parts.?
>As far as blocking out time to apply the solder paste and place?
>individual parts, how long can one let the applied parts stand?
>without reflow? I would like to break the placement process up over?
>several days but I am worried that the solder paste will separate or?
>otherwise degrade if I don't place all the parts and reflow them in?
>the same session. Can the process be broken up over a period of days?
>or even a couple of weeks without ruining the already placed parts?
>John Stockman, KC2THY

--?
Cecil - k5nwa
<??> <??>

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.?

?




--
I can explain it for you, but I can't comprehend it for you.

Re: SMT/Solder Paste Question

 

开云体育

Hi Cecil,

I see that you were very careful andtook precautions that were not mentioned in your previous
email. The ziplock bag in the fridge probably saved your day, as well as the
temperature soaking time.
At work, we used solder paste in 500g jars, and any open jar that was not used in a shift was trashed.
But that was Telecom manufacturing were reliability and quality are a few of prime requirements.
I agree with you, six reflows is pushing your luck.

But we need also to be positive about SMT. This technology is way easier and way better than the now
very old thus mature TH technology.

Hams need not to be scared by those tiny parts. With simple care, they solder easily, and make DIY a
lot of fun. That’s why, since I retired, I design SDR stuff, and in a not too distant future, I will introduce
what I see as the next wave in term of SDR Rx/Tx and Test instruments.

73 de
Jean-Paul
AC9GH @ EN61vr99





On Apr 18, 2014, at 1:16 AM, Cecil Bayona <cbayona@...> wrote:

I have never experienced the results you mentioned, but I keep your?
information in mind, I don't postpone the soldering phase often.

I did it a couple of times because after putting some of the parts?
and emergency came up and had to abort. I placed the board in a zip?
locked bag in the refrigerator and continued the next day. As a norm?
I very slowly ramp the preheat temperature precisely to get rid of?
moisture. On those boards I did a very long and slow warm up cycle?
since the boards were cold, all the joints were soldered just fine.

Soldering paste doesn't have a very long life in commercial outfits?
but using manual paste application I have solder paste that work?
quite well after two years, the commercial environment requires the?
paste density to be in a very strict range in order to be?
automatically applied, manual procedures can accept a larger variance.

I did one experiment where I place a partial parts count and?
re-flowed the board, I then did it an additional two times and was?
surprised that the components were all fine after some of them were?
re-flowed three times, since then I've read some have done as many as?
six times but I think you are pushing your luck doing it that many times.

I've bought the components to make an automatic controller for my?
Infrawave Oven once that is done then repeatability will improve, and?
I can work on other boards while the first batch is proceeding on?
auto pilot. I'm thinking of using it for commercial projects.

At 11:35 PM 4/17/2014, you wrote:
>Cecil,
>
>You're playing with fire when you wait for reflow,
>The solder paste is VERY sensitive to moisture, and the flux?
>evaporate fairly fast.
>So, you end up with crusty paste that might hold the parts a bit, but you are
>almost certain to create cold solder joints, and tons of solder balls.
>At all the places I have worked, 6 hours was the shelf life of a?
>board with solder paste and parts.
>Past that time, the PCB was washed and recycled because it was the?
>most expensive part.
>The paste and the inexpensive parts were trashed. Some (very few)?
>very expensive ICs were recycled.
>
>I understand the hobbyist viewpoint, but please don't suggest that?
>it is an acceptable practice.
>
>I would suggest to place a few parts and reflow them, then you can?
>wait, then add fresh solder paste, place parts
>and reflow those.
>Too many reflows are not good for ICs, but 3 to 4 is OK.
>So you can limit the number of reflows by adding heat screens on?
>your board for the parts already soldered
>(aluminum foil makes a good screen)
>
>My $0.02
>
>Jean-Paul (AC9GH)
>
>
>On Apr 17, 2014, at 11:03 PM, Cecil Bayona?
><<mailto:cbayona@...>cbayona@...> wrote:
>
>> From personal experience I've had no problems with putting the
>>paste and parts and then soldering a few days later, what happened
>>was that some of the binding oil evaporated but the parts were held
>>in place by the dried out paste. When placed in the oven the parts
>>were soldered OK.
>>
>>It would not be OK if you put the paste but not the parts, when you
>>go to put in the parts later they would not stick to the pad.
>>
>>At 08:53 PM 4/17/2014, you wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >I am planning the build of an Ensemble RX and I am thinking of
>> >trying the griddle-heat gun reflow method to install the SMT parts.
>> >As far as blocking out time to apply the solder paste and place
>> >individual parts, how long can one let the applied parts stand
>> >without reflow? I would like to break the placement process up over
>> >several days but I am worried that the solder paste will separate or
>> >otherwise degrade if I don't place all the parts and reflow them in
>> >the same session. Can the process be broken up over a period of days
>> >or even a couple of weeks without ruining the already placed parts?
>> >John Stockman, KC2THY
>>
>>--
>>Cecil - k5nwa
>><?
>><>?>?
>><??>
>>
>>Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
>

--?
Cecil - k5nwa
<??> <??>

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.?
Re: SMT/Solder Paste Question

 

Lots of voodoo surrounding solder paste.? Experienced industry people give madly conflicting advice including the sacrifice of a live chicken to assure good joints.?
?
John's advice is best.? Do it all at once.
?
Have a whimsical weekend, everyone!
?
Bill
KJ4SLP


On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:33 AM, John Stockman <jcs1@...> wrote:
?

Thank you all, I will plan to do it all in one session. Solder paste is new to me.
John Stockman, KC2THY

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


Jean-Paul Louis <louijp@...> wrote:

Cecil,

You’re playing with fire when you wait for reflow,
The solder paste is VERY sensitive to moisture, and the flux evaporate fairly fast.
So, you end up with crusty paste that might hold the parts a bit, but you are
almost certain to create cold solder joints, and tons of solder balls.
At all the places I have worked, 6 hours was the shelf life of a board with solder paste and parts.
Past that time, the PCB was washed and recycled because it was the most expensive part.
The paste and the inexpensive parts were trashed. Some (very few) very expensive ICs were recycled.

I understand the hobbyist viewpoint, but please don’t suggest that it is an acceptable practice.

I would suggest to place a few parts and reflow them, then you can wait, then add fresh solder paste, place parts
and reflow those.
Too many reflows are not good for ICs, but 3 to 4 is OK.
So you can limit the number of reflows by adding heat screens on your board for the parts already soldered
(aluminum foil makes a good screen)

My $0.02

Jean-Paul (AC9GH)


On Apr 17, 2014, at 11:03 PM, Cecil Bayona <cbayona@...> wrote:

From personal experience I've had no problems with putting the?
paste and parts and then soldering a few days later, what happened?
was that some of the binding oil evaporated but the parts were held?
in place by the dried out paste. When placed in the oven the parts?
were soldered OK.

It would not be OK if you put the paste but not the parts, when you?
go to put in the parts later they would not stick to the pad.

At 08:53 PM 4/17/2014, you wrote:
>
>
>I am planning the build of an Ensemble RX and I am thinking of?
>trying the griddle-heat gun reflow method to install the SMT parts.?
>As far as blocking out time to apply the solder paste and place?
>individual parts, how long can one let the applied parts stand?
>without reflow? I would like to break the placement process up over?
>several days but I am worried that the solder paste will separate or?
>otherwise degrade if I don't place all the parts and reflow them in?
>the same session. Can the process be broken up over a period of days?
>or even a couple of weeks without ruining the already placed parts?
>John Stockman, KC2THY

--?
Cecil - k5nwa
<??> <??>

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.?





--
I can explain it for you, but I can't comprehend it for you.

Re: ensemble rx ii has a problem

[email protected]
 

One other note, it's the same display from 80M - 10M
Re: SMT/Solder Paste Question

John Stockman
 

开云体育

Thank you all, I will plan to do it all in one session. Solder paste is new to me.
John Stockman, KC2THY

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


Jean-Paul Louis wrote:

Cecil,

You’re playing with fire when you wait for reflow,
The solder paste is VERY sensitive to moisture, and the flux evaporate fairly fast.
So, you end up with crusty paste that might hold the parts a bit, but you are
almost certain to create cold solder joints, and tons of solder balls.
At all the places I have worked, 6 hours was the shelf life of a board with solder paste and parts.
Past that time, the PCB was washed and recycled because it was the most expensive part.
The paste and the inexpensive parts were trashed. Some (very few) very expensive ICs were recycled.

I understand the hobbyist viewpoint, but please don’t suggest that it is an acceptable practice.

I would suggest to place a few parts and reflow them, then you can wait, then add fresh solder paste, place parts
and reflow those.
Too many reflows are not good for ICs, but 3 to 4 is OK.
So you can limit the number of reflows by adding heat screens on your board for the parts already soldered
(aluminum foil makes a good screen)

My $0.02

Jean-Paul (AC9GH)


On Apr 17, 2014, at 11:03 PM, Cecil Bayona <cbayona@...> wrote:

From personal experience I've had no problems with putting the?
paste and parts and then soldering a few days later, what happened?
was that some of the binding oil evaporated but the parts were held?
in place by the dried out paste. When placed in the oven the parts?
were soldered OK.

It would not be OK if you put the paste but not the parts, when you?
go to put in the parts later they would not stick to the pad.

At 08:53 PM 4/17/2014, you wrote:
>
>
>I am planning the build of an Ensemble RX and I am thinking of?
>trying the griddle-heat gun reflow method to install the SMT parts.?
>As far as blocking out time to apply the solder paste and place?
>individual parts, how long can one let the applied parts stand?
>without reflow? I would like to break the placement process up over?
>several days but I am worried that the solder paste will separate or?
>otherwise degrade if I don't place all the parts and reflow them in?
>the same session. Can the process be broken up over a period of days?
>or even a couple of weeks without ruining the already placed parts?
>John Stockman, KC2THY

--?
Cecil - k5nwa
<??> <??>

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.?
Re: SMT/Solder Paste Question

 

John,

It doesn't take that long- maybe an hour to do all the parts. I wouldn't bother with spreading it out over days.

John
KC9OJV
?


From: Jean-Paul Louis <louijp@...>
To: softrock40@...
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2014 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: [softrock40] SMT/Solder Paste Question

Lenny,

While I was working, I spent a lot of money in studies of the reflow process, and
what you suggest is not as bad as what Cecil suggest, but it is not good unless
you wash the moisture of the boards with nitrogen, and seal the bags.?
then you might be ok for overnight wait, but it is still risky.
I do not understand why they would want to keep PSB with paste and no parts.
It is cheaper to just clean the PCB with a Isopropyl Alcohol, then you can wait overnight
without any dry pack and nitrogen, and recycle it on the next morning.

I suggest that any paste on the board be reflowed in the next two hours.
So for hobby work, paste a few areas, add the parts, reflow, let cool, then you can wait
a bit for the next batch of parts. See my reply to Cecil for heat screen.

Jean-Paul

On Apr 18, 2014, at 12:03 AM, w2bvh <w2bvh@...> wrote:


At work they sometimes put boards with paste, without parts, in a small closed plastic box overnight (end of shift to start of shift) and it works out ok. They usually store it in a dry nitrogen box, but I don't think that really matters too much.

GL & 73,
Lenny W2BVH


On 4/17/2014 9:53 PM,?jcs1@...?wrote:
?
I am planning the build of an Ensemble RX and I am thinking of trying the griddle-heat gun reflow method to install the SMT parts. As far as blocking out time to apply the solder paste and place individual parts, how long can one let the applied parts stand without reflow? I would like to break the placement process up over several days but I am worried that the solder paste will separate or otherwise degrade if I don't place all the parts and reflow them in the same session. Can the process be broken up over a period of days or even a couple of weeks without ruining the already placed parts??
John Stockman, KC2THY
Re: ensemble rx ii has a problem

Alan
 

Original Message -----
Subject: [softrock40] ensemble rx ii has a problem


what did I do wrong on my softrock ensemble rx II? I'm using the cheap
little syba (aud20101) usb sound card and this is what I get when I try to
use it as my input.
I've not seen anything like this.

What is it like without anything plugged in?
Have you tried mixer controls? Stereo Mix?
What PSU?
Have you any other sound? On-board?

I'd guess it's working at only 48KHz. And a lot of these were mic input mono but you would see signals.
(The Ensemble is only designed to go down to 3.5MHz although it will receive lower with a reasonable antenna.)

73 Alan G4ZFQ
Re: SMT/Solder Paste Question

Cecil Bayona
 

I have never experienced the results you mentioned, but I keep your information in mind, I don't postpone the soldering phase often.

I did it a couple of times because after putting some of the parts and emergency came up and had to abort. I placed the board in a zip locked bag in the refrigerator and continued the next day. As a norm I very slowly ramp the preheat temperature precisely to get rid of moisture. On those boards I did a very long and slow warm up cycle since the boards were cold, all the joints were soldered just fine.

Soldering paste doesn't have a very long life in commercial outfits but using manual paste application I have solder paste that work quite well after two years, the commercial environment requires the paste density to be in a very strict range in order to be automatically applied, manual procedures can accept a larger variance.

I did one experiment where I place a partial parts count and re-flowed the board, I then did it an additional two times and was surprised that the components were all fine after some of them were re-flowed three times, since then I've read some have done as many as six times but I think you are pushing your luck doing it that many times.

I've bought the components to make an automatic controller for my Infrawave Oven once that is done then repeatability will improve, and I can work on other boards while the first batch is proceeding on auto pilot. I'm thinking of using it for commercial projects.

At 11:35 PM 4/17/2014, you wrote:
Cecil,

You're playing with fire when you wait for reflow,
The solder paste is VERY sensitive to moisture, and the flux evaporate fairly fast.
So, you end up with crusty paste that might hold the parts a bit, but you are
almost certain to create cold solder joints, and tons of solder balls.
At all the places I have worked, 6 hours was the shelf life of a board with solder paste and parts.
Past that time, the PCB was washed and recycled because it was the most expensive part.
The paste and the inexpensive parts were trashed. Some (very few) very expensive ICs were recycled.

I understand the hobbyist viewpoint, but please don't suggest that it is an acceptable practice.

I would suggest to place a few parts and reflow them, then you can wait, then add fresh solder paste, place parts
and reflow those.
Too many reflows are not good for ICs, but 3 to 4 is OK.
So you can limit the number of reflows by adding heat screens on your board for the parts already soldered
(aluminum foil makes a good screen)

My $0.02

Jean-Paul (AC9GH)


On Apr 17, 2014, at 11:03 PM, Cecil Bayona <<mailto:cbayona@...>cbayona@...> wrote:

From personal experience I've had no problems with putting the
paste and parts and then soldering a few days later, what happened
was that some of the binding oil evaporated but the parts were held
in place by the dried out paste. When placed in the oven the parts
were soldered OK.

It would not be OK if you put the paste but not the parts, when you
go to put in the parts later they would not stick to the pad.

At 08:53 PM 4/17/2014, you wrote:


I am planning the build of an Ensemble RX and I am thinking of
trying the griddle-heat gun reflow method to install the SMT parts.
As far as blocking out time to apply the solder paste and place
individual parts, how long can one let the applied parts stand
without reflow? I would like to break the placement process up over
several days but I am worried that the solder paste will separate or
otherwise degrade if I don't place all the parts and reflow them in
the same session. Can the process be broken up over a period of days
or even a couple of weeks without ruining the already placed parts?
John Stockman, KC2THY
--
Cecil - k5nwa
< <> > < >

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
--
Cecil - k5nwa
< > < >

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Re: SMT/Solder Paste Question

 

开云体育

Lenny,

While I was working, I spent a lot of money in studies of the reflow process, and
what you suggest is not as bad as what Cecil suggest, but it is not good unless
you wash the moisture of the boards with nitrogen, and seal the bags.?
then you might be ok for overnight wait, but it is still risky.
I do not understand why they would want to keep PSB with paste and no parts.
It is cheaper to just clean the PCB with a Isopropyl Alcohol, then you can wait overnight
without any dry pack and nitrogen, and recycle it on the next morning.

I suggest that any paste on the board be reflowed in the next two hours.
So for hobby work, paste a few areas, add the parts, reflow, let cool, then you can wait
a bit for the next batch of parts. See my reply to Cecil for heat screen.

Jean-Paul

On Apr 18, 2014, at 12:03 AM, w2bvh <w2bvh@...> wrote:


At work they sometimes put boards with paste, without parts, in a small closed plastic box overnight (end of shift to start of shift) and it works out ok. They usually store it in a dry nitrogen box, but I don't think that really matters too much.

GL & 73,
Lenny W2BVH


On 4/17/2014 9:53 PM,?jcs1@...?wrote:
?

I am planning the build of an Ensemble RX and I am thinking of trying the griddle-heat gun reflow method to install the SMT parts. As far as blocking out time to apply the solder paste and place individual parts, how long can one let the applied parts stand without reflow? I would like to break the placement process up over several days but I am worried that the solder paste will separate or otherwise degrade if I don't place all the parts and reflow them in the same session. Can the process be broken up over a period of days or even a couple of weeks without ruining the already placed parts??

John Stockman, KC2THY
Re: SMT/Solder Paste Question

 

开云体育

Cecil,

You’re playing with fire when you wait for reflow,
The solder paste is VERY sensitive to moisture, and the flux evaporate fairly fast.
So, you end up with crusty paste that might hold the parts a bit, but you are
almost certain to create cold solder joints, and tons of solder balls.
At all the places I have worked, 6 hours was the shelf life of a board with solder paste and parts.
Past that time, the PCB was washed and recycled because it was the most expensive part.
The paste and the inexpensive parts were trashed. Some (very few) very expensive ICs were recycled.

I understand the hobbyist viewpoint, but please don’t suggest that it is an acceptable practice.

I would suggest to place a few parts and reflow them, then you can wait, then add fresh solder paste, place parts
and reflow those.
Too many reflows are not good for ICs, but 3 to 4 is OK.
So you can limit the number of reflows by adding heat screens on your board for the parts already soldered
(aluminum foil makes a good screen)

My $0.02

Jean-Paul (AC9GH)


On Apr 17, 2014, at 11:03 PM, Cecil Bayona <cbayona@...> wrote:

From personal experience I've had no problems with putting the?
paste and parts and then soldering a few days later, what happened?
was that some of the binding oil evaporated but the parts were held?
in place by the dried out paste. When placed in the oven the parts?
were soldered OK.

It would not be OK if you put the paste but not the parts, when you?
go to put in the parts later they would not stick to the pad.

At 08:53 PM 4/17/2014, you wrote:
>
>
>I am planning the build of an Ensemble RX and I am thinking of?
>trying the griddle-heat gun reflow method to install the SMT parts.?
>As far as blocking out time to apply the solder paste and place?
>individual parts, how long can one let the applied parts stand?
>without reflow? I would like to break the placement process up over?
>several days but I am worried that the solder paste will separate or?
>otherwise degrade if I don't place all the parts and reflow them in?
>the same session. Can the process be broken up over a period of days?
>or even a couple of weeks without ruining the already placed parts?
>John Stockman, KC2THY

--?
Cecil - k5nwa
<??> <??>

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.?
Re: SMT/Solder Paste Question

 

开云体育

At work they sometimes put boards with paste, without parts, in a small closed plastic box overnight (end of shift to start of shift) and it works out ok. They usually store it in a dry nitrogen box, but I don't think that really matters too much.

GL & 73,
Lenny W2BVH


On 4/17/2014 9:53 PM, jcs1@... wrote:

?

I am planning the build of an Ensemble RX and I am thinking of trying the griddle-heat gun reflow method to install the SMT parts. As far as blocking out time to apply the solder paste and place individual parts, how long can one let the applied parts stand without reflow? I would like to break the placement process up over several days but I am worried that the solder paste will separate or otherwise degrade if I don't place all the parts and reflow them in the same session. Can the process be broken up over a period of days or even a couple of weeks without ruining the already placed parts??

John Stockman, KC2THY
Re: SMT/Solder Paste Question

Cecil Bayona
 

From personal experience I've had no problems with putting the paste and parts and then soldering a few days later, what happened was that some of the binding oil evaporated but the parts were held in place by the dried out paste. When placed in the oven the parts were soldered OK.

It would not be OK if you put the paste but not the parts, when you go to put in the parts later they would not stick to the pad.

At 08:53 PM 4/17/2014, you wrote:


I am planning the build of an Ensemble RX and I am thinking of trying the griddle-heat gun reflow method to install the SMT parts. As far as blocking out time to apply the solder paste and place individual parts, how long can one let the applied parts stand without reflow? I would like to break the placement process up over several days but I am worried that the solder paste will separate or otherwise degrade if I don't place all the parts and reflow them in the same session. Can the process be broken up over a period of days or even a couple of weeks without ruining the already placed parts?
John Stockman, KC2THY
--
Cecil - k5nwa
< > < >

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Re: SMT/Solder Paste Question

Silverfox
 

开云体育

It can be done but it requires a temperature controlled heat source so that the solder only melts enough to maintain the colloidal effect to keep the previously soldered parts from moving.? This is not so difficult with all the parts on one side of the PCB.? Doing both sides requires more attention to the details.

73,

Alan - W6ARH

This is based on a couple of attempts with a simple inexpensive board.

?

?

From: softrock40@... [mailto:softrock40@...] On Behalf Of jcs1@...
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2014 6:54 PM
To: softrock40@...
Subject: [softrock40] SMT/Solder Paste Question

?

?

I am planning the build of an Ensemble RX and I am thinking of trying the griddle-heat gun reflow method to install the SMT parts. As far as blocking out time to apply the solder paste and place individual parts, how long can one let the applied parts stand without reflow? I would like to break the placement process up over several days but I am worried that the solder paste will separate or otherwise degrade if I don't place all the parts and reflow them in the same session. Can the process be broken up over a period of days or even a couple of weeks without ruining the already placed parts??

John Stockman, KC2THY

?
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