Good Evening Bruce and others,

Very good on what you are doing Bruce to get the SR40 running on 30
meters.

One comment on your 80 meter operation with the 14.318 MHz clock
with the BPF stock. The response of the QSD will only be down 6 dB
for third harmonic signals without the BPF helping out on the band
of interest. Since the stock BPF is fairly broad, I wonder if the
SWBC interference you were hearing was actually around 10.738 MHz?
If you have a moment some time to check, it would be interesting to
know.

I am sure a number of us will be quite interested in hearing about
your 30 meter efforts and results.

73,
Tony KB9YIG

--- In softrock40@..., "Bruce Beford"
<bruce.beford@v...> wrote:

I have received the 40.5Mhz crystals I ordered for use in the

SoftRock to

allow operation on 30M. It is not going to be strictly plug and

play. I

built my first Softrock with a socket for the crystal, and have

been able to

get it to run with several crystals that run at less than

the "stock" 28.224

Mhz. Was listening to 80M last night with a 14.318 Mhz xtal in

there (Rx

center freq abt 3.58 Mhz) signals were slightly down due to the

front end

filter, but it worked pretty well- Except for some 40M SWBC images.

I cannot get the 40.5Mhz crystals to fire in an unmodified SR40. I
breadboarded the oscillator cicuit from the SR40, and WAS able to

get the

crystals to work if I removed C6 and C7 (100pf). When I replaced

them with

33pf caps, I could get both the original crystal, and the 40.5Mhz

crystal to

fire up fine. However, I could not repeat this by replacing C6 and

C7 on a

SR40 circuit board. I'm not sure yet what the difference is

(between my

breadboard lash-up and the PC board, maybe other stray

capacitances) I do

plan to do some additional experimenting. Possibly my stock of

2n3904s are

better(?) The ones supplied should work at this freq ok, so I'm

not sure.

In any event, I am now sure these crystals work on the fundamental

freq of

40.5Mhz. It looks like some mods will need to be done to a board

to allow

operation at that high a freq.

I'll keep ya all posted.

73,
Bruce N1RX

The radio went together fairly easily, though I'm at
a loss to figure out why an experimenter's radio is
jammed onto such a small board. This might be OK for
a production rig, but some room would be nice to
experiment.

That said, the radio works except there is no image
rejection and the DSP image rejection controls do
nothing. The instructions say, "If the image cannot
be nulled at least 50 db, then a problem exists..."
Well, some guidance would have been helpful.
Especially, given my opening criticism.

I am reluctant to tear into this think quite yet as
there is not a lot of room to work. I originally
thought it may be a transformer mis-wiring on my part.

Again, we're talking an experimenter's radio on 40
meters where things are relatively less critical than
other bands, so a little larger toroid with more room
to make changes would make it a lot easier.

I'm hoping when I fix the image problem that all
that 7.056 +/- 5 khz energy is going to at least be
diminished. 7.056 is S5. 7.051/7.061 are S3.

Anyway, I have no doubt the problem is my error. I
just want a little direction so that I can minimize
stress on the board.

Eric
KE6US
www.ke6us.com

Hi Eric,

Not being able to null the image has usually been associated with the I and
Q signals being crossed or one missing. Check to make sure the stereo cable
is connected to the board with the stereo connector tip to C18, the via
nearest the corner board mounting hole. Check with a meter to make sure
there is nothing to short out one of the I or Q signals. Also, if the QSD
is not getting one of the clock phases, open at a IC pin or short between
pins, it can result is such an unbalance between the I and Q signals such
that one can not get a null. Solder bridges between IC pins can sometimes
be hard to see without looking with good lighting and magnification.

Please let me know what you find or if you still have the problem. I may be
able to suggest other things to look at.

Good luch with the debug.

73,
Tony KB9YIG

Eric- I think you may be confused regarding image rejection. What is
meant is when you inject a signal at say, 7.042, which is about
14Khz BELOW the center freq of 7.056- The image that you are trying
to null will appear at about 7.060, or about 14Khz ABOVE the center
freq. The nulling process will not have any effect on the junk
around 7.056. My understanding is that the stuff you see there are
artifacts created by very low frequency noise within the the sound
card, as well as other factors relating to this low-cost design. A
high-end sound card may reduce this, but I would like to hear from
others using the SR40 with something like the M-Audio delta 44, or
other high-end cards. Hope this explaination helps.

73, Bruce N1RX

I should have said that the image would appear at 7.070, not 7.060-
sorry. -Bruce.

--- In softrock40@..., "Bruce Beford"
<bruce.beford@v...> wrote:

Eric- I think you may be confused regarding image rejection. What

is

meant is when you inject a signal at say, 7.042, which is about
14Khz BELOW the center freq of 7.056- The image that you are

trying

to null will appear at about 7.060, or about 14Khz ABOVE the

center

freq. The nulling process will not have any effect on the junk
around 7.056. My understanding is that the stuff you see there are
artifacts created by very low frequency noise within the the sound
card, as well as other factors relating to this low-cost design. A
high-end sound card may reduce this, but I would like to hear from
others using the SR40 with something like the M-Audio delta 44, or
other high-end cards. Hope this explaination helps.

73, Bruce N1RX

Those were actually two different thoughts.

When I inject a signal with my KX1 at 7.040, I get an
image at 7.072 which is just about as strong. When I
go to the DSP image rejection sliders, they have no
effect on the 7.072 signal.

I also see images of QSOs on the other side of the
center frequency and can't reduce them.

I mentioned, hope against hope, that fixing the image
rejection problem might have some effect on the
artifacts you mentioned which I realize are something
inherent in the design and can't be eliminated.

Thanks for the note, Bruce. I'm going to stick this
thing on a scope later tonight with just power and an
antenna and see what I can see. I don't have a
computer in the shop or hamshack, both upstairs, so it
is a little inconvenient working on the radio since
the only computer I can use is in the dining room
which is downstairs. Keeps me fit, though.

Eric
KE6US
www.ke6us.com

--- Bruce Beford <bruce.beford@...> wrote:

Eric- I think you may be confused regarding image
rejection. What is
meant is when you inject a signal at say, 7.042,
which is about
14Khz BELOW the center freq of 7.056- The image that
you are trying
to null will appear at about 7.060, or about 14Khz
ABOVE the center
freq. The nulling process will not have any effect
on the junk
around 7.056. My understanding is that the stuff you
see there are
artifacts created by very low frequency noise within
the the sound
card, as well as other factors relating to this
low-cost design. A
high-end sound card may reduce this, but I would
like to hear from
others using the SR40 with something like the
M-Audio delta 44, or
other high-end cards. Hope this explaination helps.

73, Bruce N1RX

--- In softrock40@..., "Eric"
<eric_ke6us@y...> wrote:

The radio went together fairly easily, though I'm

at

a loss to figure out why an experimenter's radio

is

jammed onto such a small board. This might be OK

for

a production rig, but some room would be nice to
experiment.

That said, the radio works except there is no

image

rejection and the DSP image rejection controls do
nothing. The instructions say, "If the image

cannot

be nulled at least 50 db, then a problem

exists..."

Well, some guidance would have been helpful.
Especially, given my opening criticism.

I am reluctant to tear into this think quite yet

as

there is not a lot of room to work. I originally
thought it may be a transformer mis-wiring on my

part.

Again, we're talking an experimenter's radio on 40
meters where things are relatively less critical

than

other bands, so a little larger toroid with more

room

to make changes would make it a lot easier.

I'm hoping when I fix the image problem that all
that 7.056 +/- 5 khz energy is going to at least

be

diminished. 7.056 is S5. 7.051/7.061 are S3.

Anyway, I have no doubt the problem is my error. I
just want a little direction so that I can

minimize

stress on the board.

Eric
KE6US
www.ke6us.com

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Ahh the small board -- good question as to why is it so dang small -- I think one of Tony's original goals for the gizmo was more of a demonstration vehicle than an experimenter vehicle. I for one wish it had more working room, but I will say the experience has vastly improved my soldering and rework in small places.

The central hump you're seeing around 7.056 is normal. The gunk you're seeing around this is a consequence of the software architecture. What is happening is that the hardware takes the swath of RF centered and 7.056 and downconverts it such that 7.056 is essentially at DC. Also down there near DC is noise and 60 hz (and its harmonics) hum. When one tries to tune down near 7.056, the local software oscillator will be down in the 100's of hz's. The output of this will be Software LO +/- 60 Hz (and harmonics). Things will always be a bit messy near the center frequency -- quieter less hummy sound cards can help, but I don't believe there's any practical way to get rid of all the gunk in the middle.

If you want to check out the hardware sans computer, and have a signal generator and a scope you can put in a -30 dbm signal at 7.050 or so into the antenna. Look at the audio output on the I and Q channels -- it should be about 6 khz (7.056 - 7.060) and on the order of about 0.8 Vpp or so (don't take my nums as precision numbers, they are all from memory). The thing to look at is if both the I and Q channels are comparable in magnitude -- if one is half the other something is not quite right in the hardware. You can also take a look at the phase relationship -- it should be about 90 degrees between teh two channels. While you've got the scope out check the clocking signals to the FST3126. If you've got a generator and no scope, you might be able to compare the two channels with a good RMS voltmeter.

One last thing to check -- make sure you're using a sound card with a stereo input. Using a mono mic in input would give the symptom of not being able to null the image.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Bill (kd5tfd)

Thanks so much, Bill. I'm still going to play with the
scope tonight, but I'd be willing to bet the input is
to a mono mic input. I had to reach back in the dark
with a flashlight and a mirror and probably did it
wrong. I'll pull the computer out tonight and check
it. Some day computers will be designed to be useful
with a front panel instead of pretty with everything
on the rear.

I, and I'm sure others, appreciate your knowledge and
patience getting us up to speed.

Eric
KE6US
www.ke6us.com

--- Bill Tracey <kd5tfd@...> wrote:

Ahh the small board -- good question as to why is it
so dang small -- I
think one of Tony's original goals for the gizmo was
more of a
demonstration vehicle than an experimenter vehicle.
I for one wish it had
more working room, but I will say the experience has
vastly improved my
soldering and rework in small places.

The central hump you're seeing around 7.056 is
normal. The gunk you're
seeing around this is a consequence of the software
architecture. What is
happening is that the hardware takes the swath of RF
centered and 7.056 and
downconverts it such that 7.056 is essentially at
DC. Also down there
near DC is noise and 60 hz (and its harmonics) hum.
When one tries to tune
down near 7.056, the local software oscillator will
be down in the 100's of
hz's. The output of this will be Software LO +/- 60
Hz (and
harmonics). Things will always be a bit messy
near the center frequency
-- quieter less hummy sound cards can help, but I
don't believe there's any
practical way to get rid of all the gunk in the
middle.

If you want to check out the hardware sans computer,
and have a signal
generator and a scope you can put in a -30 dbm
signal at 7.050 or so into
the antenna. Look at the audio output on the I and
Q channels -- it should
be about 6 khz (7.056 - 7.060) and on the order of
about 0.8 Vpp or so
(don't take my nums as precision numbers, they are
all from memory). The
thing to look at is if both the I and Q channels are
comparable in
magnitude -- if one is half the other something is
not quite right in the
hardware. You can also take a look at the phase
relationship -- it should
be about 90 degrees between teh two channels. While
you've got the scope
out check the clocking signals to the FST3126. If
you've got a generator
and no scope, you might be able to compare the two
channels with a good RMS
voltmeter.

One last thing to check -- make sure you're using a
sound card with a
stereo input. Using a mono mic in input would
give the symptom of not
being able to null the image.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Bill (kd5tfd)




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The radio went together fairly easily, though I'm at
a loss to figure out why an experimenter's radio is
jammed onto such a small board. This might be OK for
a production rig, but some room would be nice to
experiment.

That said, the radio works except there is no image
rejection and the DSP image rejection controls do
nothing. The instructions say, "If the image cannot
be nulled at least 50 db, then a problem exists..."
Well, some guidance would have been helpful.
Especially, given my opening criticism.

I am reluctant to tear into this think quite yet as
there is not a lot of room to work. I originally
thought it may be a transformer mis-wiring on my part.

Again, we're talking an experimenter's radio on 40
meters? where things are relatively less critical than
other bands, so a little larger toroid with more room
to make changes would make it a lot easier.

I'm hoping when I fix the image problem that all
that 7.056 +/- 5 khz energy is going to at least be
diminished. 7.056 is S5. 7.051/7.061 are S3.

Anyway, I have no doubt the problem is my error. I
just want a little direction so that I can minimize
stress on the board.

Eric
KE6US
www.ke6us.com


????? ?????
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

John
K7SVV

__________________________________________________
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开云体育

Nick -- not sure I'd get too hopeful. After inquiring on the Flex-Radio list for people's experiences with Window ME and PowerSDR I tend to believe this is not going to work on ME -- I got no reports of anyone successfully running on ME and a number of reports of failures, including one that matched the symptoms you saw.

Regards,

Bill (kd5tfd)

Possible ground loops? Feed the power to the device from an independent floating power supply and see if the gunk in the center of the band goes down. Should not be too hard to try out, I would do it myself but I have not received my order yet. Better yet supply the power from a set of batteries.

--
Cecil
KD5NWA
<www.qrpradio.com>

I fail to see why doing the same thing over and over and getting the same results every time is insanity: I've almost proved it isn't; only a few more tests now and I'm sure results will differ this time ...

开云体育

Good Morning Group,

I have sent the following to a number of hams having the same
problem mentioned by serveral in the group. Every SoftRock I have
built (30+ and lost count) has worked properly, some with extra
effort.

73,
Tony KB9YIG

Not being able to null the image has usually been associated with
the I and
Q signals being crossed or one missing. Check to make sure the
stereo cable
is connected to the board with the stereo connector tip to C18, the
via
nearest the corner board mounting hole. Check with a meter to make
sure
there is nothing to short one of the I or Q signals to ground.
Also, if the QSD circuit
is not getting one of the clock phases, open at a IC pin or short
between
pins, it can result an unbalance between the I and Q signals such
that one can not get a null. Solder bridges between IC pins can
be hard to see without looking with good lighting and magnification.

The voltage gain from RF in to I or Q audio outputs is on the order
of 40-45 v/v.

--- In softrock40@..., John <digi9345@y...> wrote:

Eric,
It sounds as though you and I are in the same predicament.

The SR40 is working pretty good but the image rejection controls
have no affect. Be sure to let us know if you come up with a fix.

John [K7SVV]

EricJ <eric_ke6us@y...> wrote:
The radio went together fairly easily, though I'm at
a loss to figure out why an experimenter's radio is
jammed onto such a small board. This might be OK for
a production rig, but some room would be nice to
experiment.

That said, the radio works except there is no image
rejection and the DSP image rejection controls do
nothing. The instructions say, "If the image cannot
be nulled at least 50 db, then a problem exists..."
Well, some guidance would have been helpful.
Especially, given my opening criticism.

I am reluctant to tear into this think quite yet as
there is not a lot of room to work. I originally
thought it may be a transformer mis-wiring on my part.

Again, we're talking an experimenter's radio on 40
meters where things are relatively less critical than
other bands, so a little larger toroid with more room
to make changes would make it a lot easier.

I'm hoping when I fix the image problem that all
that 7.056 +/- 5 khz energy is going to at least be
diminished. 7.056 is S5. 7.051/7.061 are S3.

Anyway, I have no doubt the problem is my error. I
just want a little direction so that I can minimize
stress on the board.

Eric
KE6US
www.ke6us.com



__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005



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Good Morning Group,

I have sent the following to a number of hams having the same
problem mentioned by serveral in the group. Every SoftRock I have
built (30+ and lost count) has worked properly, some with extra
effort.

73,
Tony KB9YIG

Not being able to null the image has usually been associated with
the I and
Q signals being crossed or one missing. Check to make sure the
stereo cable
is connected to the board with the stereo connector tip to C18, the
via
nearest the corner board mounting hole. Check with a meter to make
sure
there is nothing to short one of the I or Q signals to ground.
Also, if the QSD circuit
is not getting one of the clock phases, open at a IC pin or short
between
pins, it can result an unbalance between the I and Q signals such
that one can not get a null. Solder bridges between IC pins can
be hard to see without looking with good lighting and magnification.

The voltage gain from RF in to I or Q audio outputs is on the order
of 40-45 v/v.

--- In softrock40@..., John <digi9345@y...> wrote:

Eric,
It sounds as though you and I are in the same predicament.

The SR40 is working pretty good but the image rejection controls
have no affect. Be sure to let us know if you come up with a fix.

John [K7SVV]

EricJ <eric_ke6us@y...> wrote:
The radio went together fairly easily, though I'm at
a loss to figure out why an experimenter's radio is
jammed onto such a small board. This might be OK for
a production rig, but some room would be nice to
experiment.

That said, the radio works except there is no image
rejection and the DSP image rejection controls do
nothing. The instructions say, "If the image cannot
be nulled at least 50 db, then a problem exists..."
Well, some guidance would have been helpful.
Especially, given my opening criticism.

I am reluctant to tear into this think quite yet as
there is not a lot of room to work. I originally
thought it may be a transformer mis-wiring on my part.

Again, we're talking an experimenter's radio on 40
meters where things are relatively less critical than
other bands, so a little larger toroid with more room
to make changes would make it a lot easier.

I'm hoping when I fix the image problem that all
that 7.056 +/- 5 khz energy is going to at least be
diminished. 7.056 is S5. 7.051/7.061 are S3.

Anyway, I have no doubt the problem is my error. I
just want a little direction so that I can minimize
stress on the board.

Eric
KE6US
www.ke6us.com



__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005



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K7SVV
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Good, makes sense.

The card is trying to read micro-volt signals, the ground used for power in a PC is horrible as far as noise is concerned. To make matters worse the power supply ground is connected to earth ground so there and lots of ways to get ground loops. The only way on a PC to eliminate a lot of that is to have the device not be powered by the filthy dirty signals of the PC.

You should have one ground connection between the SR-40 and the PC, using the signal cable(power should not be flowing), and the power of the two units should be totally separate. That will cut down 60 Hz hum and it's harmonics.

--
Cecil
KD5NWA
<www.qrpradio.com>

I fail to see why doing the same thing over and over and getting the same results every time is insanity: I've almost proved it isn't; only a few more tests now and I'm sure results will differ this time ...

Completed assembly several days ago. Currently Using I2PHD's
program which I had already installed on my PC
for experimenting with the R2PRO.

Was able to get at least 50dB of image rejection by carefully adjusting
the amplitude and time delay settings in the program's control panel.

Thanks to all involved for this interesting project

73,
Bob Johansen WB2SRF

Hi All,

I have been using liquid solder (paste) with great success. 5 years ago, I started out with a sample sent to me for free by a vendor. It was sent without an applicator, so using it on really small smt was impossible, couldn't apply small amounts of solder without the special (and pricey) micro-applicator.

The stuff was great, I used it with a conventional Weller soldering station and with the pyropen hot air 'iron'. It was supposed to have a 3 month shelf life, but I stored it in the refrigerator and it has lasted 5 years although it has degraded to the point where I wouldn't trust it on smt.

So, I need to buy more liquid solder and want a more modest quantity, and something that comes with an inexpensive applicator so it will dispense small amounts needed for smt pads.

Any suggestion as to which product to buy and where to buy it??? Please, no Radio Shack recommends, been there, done that...I've got questions, they have blank stares:>: Reputable vendors only please.

Thanks,

Art


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 9/20/2005

Wow, Art, you scared me for a moment. I once saw a
brand new Heathkit HW-101 that a young new ham had
assembled using the plastic type "liquid solder". It
never did work.

I've had limited success using solder paste in a
plastic oral syringe given to me by a friendly
pharmacist. It's hardly small enough for any type of
precision, but at least it's controllable and useable
for small jobs or repairs. You nearly have to
despense some onto a toothpick to apply. Pretty messy
that way, but with a little patience I got by.

73,
Dave W5DHM

--- KY1K <ky1k@...> wrote:

Hi All,

I have been using liquid solder (paste) with great
success. 5 years
ago, I started out with a sample sent to me for free
by a vendor. It
was sent without an applicator, so using it on
really small smt was
impossible, couldn't apply small amounts of solder
without the
special (and pricey) micro-applicator.

The stuff was great, I used it with a conventional
Weller soldering
station and with the pyropen hot air 'iron'. It was
supposed to have
a 3 month shelf life, but I stored it in the
refrigerator and it has
lasted 5 years although it has degraded to the point
where I wouldn't
trust it on smt.

So, I need to buy more liquid solder and want a more
modest quantity,
and something that comes with an inexpensive
applicator so it will
dispense small amounts needed for smt pads.

Any suggestion as to which product to buy and where
to buy it???
Please, no Radio Shack recommends, been there, done
that...I've got
questions, they have blank stares:>: Reputable
vendors only please.

Thanks,

Art


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 -
Release Date: 9/20/2005

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

despense some onto a toothpick to apply. Pretty messy
that way, but with a little patience I got by.

Thanks Dave.

It is pretty toxic stuff too, and dispensing with a toothpick is going to mean wiping the toothpick onto something once in awhile to keep the toothpick clean and prevent a big glob of it from forming on the tip.

I was hoping for something a bit more elegant in terms of the dispenser, but not elegant to the point of costing 200 dollars just for the micro dispensing hardware.

My original sample came in a syringe and was perfect for doing DIP packages and through hole type components. A smaller syringe might be better....but can't imagine it being fine enough for smt dispensing.

Thanks,

Art


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 9/20/2005