Re: It's not that simple....
The auto-sign off looks like it didn't work, so I'll sign off my previous message here, Regards, John Garaty Unanderra in oz
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Hi all, I'd describe myself as a "active lurker". Yes I read the daily digests, but I'm now rarely active here because my current modelling project over the past few years simply doesn't fit the Small Layouts Design criteria and iif I can't actively contribute then I won't chips in. I suspect that there are many other active lurkers like me who are watching "the group is dead.." topic with interest if not outright concern. .??
Many of you here will have never heard of or will have forgotten about the other Yahoo Groups that spawned off this one because of the formerly miserly amount of storage space allowed for each Group by Yahoo previously.?In the past, Yahoo allowed more space for photos rather than for files. From memory it was initially 10Mb for Files and 40Mb for Photos. Later the space allocated for files was increased to 20Mb.?
A lot of users on here saved there trackplans in? a whole lot of formats in the space-limited Files section rather than convert them to jpgs with the associated loss in resolution for storage in the Photos section of a group But there also a lot of jpg's in the Files areas. When Yahoo went to Neo,.the amount of space available went to 100Mb for both Files and Photos. This was perhaps only the best thing that ever came out of Neo..?
These related groups are SLDFiles -? SLDFiles2 -? SLDFiles3 -?
These other groups were set up as additional file repositories to get around the SLD Group itself being chock-a-block full. These other groups are part of the history of Small layouts Design on Yahoo. These subsidiary Groups contain a lot of information that shouldn't be lost.?
These other Groups are set up to post the minimum 1 message/month to keep these groups live under Yahoo's Terms of Service, but allow no other automatic posting messages of additional new files or new albums. Any notifications of new stuff in those groups was supposed to posted here on this group as a "heads-up" to go visit the other group where the actual plans, photos and other information was stored. And, yes, I have stuff in Files or Photos on this group and in 2 of the other overflow groups.
The total amount of information currently contained in all groups as at the time of posting is: SLD (This Group) - 93Mb of 2Gb Files + 1Gb of 100Gb Photos SLDFiles - 20.4Mb of 100Mb Files + 6.6Mb Photos SLDFiles2 - 16.4Mb off 100Mb Files + 4Mb Photos
SLDFiles3 - 24.1Mb of 100Mb Files + 139kb Photos
In summary, there are approximately 154Mb of filles and just over 1Gb of photos used across all the related Small Layout Design groups. This is over the top for a "standard". Yahoo Group's storage limits in the Files area. But It looks like this particular group has "enhanced" storage limits somehow that someone probably has paid for?.
I just checked one of the Io Groups that I moderate - it appears to have 1024Gb of storage for all ALL areas, There appears to be no hard boundaries between Files, Photos, Attachments, Databases, Messages etc So far I've been impressed by what I've seen and how it is currently working.?
So at first glance it looks like an .io Groups should have sufficient storage, BUT...not so fast...
There are at least a couple of significant questions that need answering before any move to Groups.io should be contemplated, Some of these questions are: - Can more than Yahoo Group be migrated into the same io Group? If not, we have a problem
- Does the album structure used in the Photos area transfer cleanly to .io Groups? .
- What happens if there are files/photos with the same name in different Yahoo groups and they hit the same Group in .io in the transfer process? Does it abort the transfer? or???
- How easy is it to amalgamate these separate Yahoo Groups back into one Yahoo group now that the SLD Group has "enhanced storage limits" Frankly I've never heard of 2 Yahoo Groups being folded into one and I don't know if that functionality exists for Yahoo Group Owners or Moderators. This would get you to one BIG Yahoo Group to be migrated.?
- Or can the amalgamate process be done in io Groups after each Yahoo Group is migrated? Again I've never heard of it being done.?
- This amount of data could take days to shove across fro Yahoo to io. What happens to files/photos/messages posted to the group during the transfer process???
Recently Yahoo/?? appears to have lifted its game in terms of service. Messages now appear to getting though quickly rather than taking days, There still appears to be a hard limit of about a 5Mb/photo file size beyond which the bulk photo upload process has problems, but I've fed multiple downsized photos through OK to multiple other Yahoo Groups recently.??
We have an archive here that goes back to 2000. That is a long time in the internet game. This is the best knowledge warehouse of small layout designs for model railways ANYWHERE on the web, I'd hate to see us lose it all because of an assumption that She'll be right, it's easy". That seems to be the prevailing direction in "The Group is dead" thread currently?
If a migration to Groups.io is to happen then the above questions (and there are probably some others that I've missed) need to be at least thought through and hopefully resolved. Remember someone has to to the work behind these questions, It probably might not be those championing the move to Groups.io??
A concerned long-time member,
? ?
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Forums, groups,newsgroups etc always have ups and downs of participation based on various factors..time of year,holidays,people leaving and joining etc. and certainly things like Facebook also have an affect on this. But I still say that participation here, and in other Yahoo groups have been negatively affected due to the changes in u/ I by Yahoo...and that participation has really dropped off even more recently because of increased business by Yahoo. Look at the calendar of the front-page ...the monthly numbers started to drop in 2010 when Yahoo tried their first revamp of the u/I for the groups and then had to roll it back due to world-wide demand by users and advertisers. But the real drop-off in participation was in 2012-13 when Yahoo rolled out the new NEO interface for all the groups worldwide...people really hated and still hate the new u/I and started dropping out ...the numbers on the calendar tell the story. Now the increasing problems that people are having logging-in,posting and reading just added to the issues.
Just my 2-cents worth.
Cheers Gene
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A small layout in the Turntable
Viewed the Utube video suggested - no TT.?? What am I missing?
Jude in Choo Chootown
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I think technology has something to do with it as well. I know people who no longer have a computer. Just a smart phone and the likes of Face book is better suited to the smaller touch screens than Yahoo Groups. I've been with this group way back when Carl Ardent was still alive. I'm one of those members who just lurks in the background because I usually have nothing to say myself.? I still use a full size computer and I don't like Face book and I will stay with this group as long as it survives. Most of my other groups have gone to .io and I would support that move should it happen.
?I cut some wood yesterday to start on a inglenook in British N based on the Chapel St Yard in Railway Modeller in March 2013. DCC of course. I plan to use only Peco Elsie couplings with mechanical uncoupling, Caboose Hobbies ground throws and a Tam Valley Depot DCC Train Shuttle Module to automate the high level passenger line. All the structures will be printed paper probably the free ones from Wordsworth Model Railway.
Ken H in Oz.
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> It’s a very difficult user interface for historical references.
+1
Best wishes. Philip
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This isn’t dead. I’m a proponent of moving to .?
Facebook isn’t the answer. I’m a member of many groups there. It is way too easy to post on Facebook allowing for comments to get out of hand. It’s a very difficult user interface for historical references.
I’m finding easier to access compared to groups.yahoo. I’m more active in groups that have moved.?
I might be able to find time to help move is the group owners are interested.?
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just one guy's opinion >>
The activity in the group is mostly related to who posts and how often, not where the group is . GROUPS-IO ~ or ~ Yahoo , if no one posts , the group dies.
I have been on-line since the days of the BBSs and dial-up modems.
It is common to see activity in groups increase and decrease with the seasonal temperatures.
I truly believe that the increased activity in the groups that moved was CAUSED by the increased mails from the move process.
If you want to keep this group 'alive' , increase your posts and replies.
or lurk and witness the demise.
Mark.
and again , this is just one opinion.
From: "'Tharpgroup.com' bruce@... [small-layout-design]"
To: small-layout-design@...
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 12:19 PM
Subject: [small-layout-design] Re: Group dead.
?
This isn’t dead. I’m a proponent of moving to groups.io.?
Facebook isn’t the answer. I’m a member of many groups there. It is way too easy to post on Facebook allowing for comments to get out of hand. It’s a very difficult user interface for historical references.
I’m finding groups.io easier to access compared to groups.yahoo. I’m more active in groups that have moved.?
I might be able to find time to help move is the group owners are interested.?
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On 06/17/2018 02:39 AM, tony.wells@... [small-layout-design] wrote:
I agree with you Chris, as all of my other e-groups have gone to .io so I did too, without any problems as you say.
My experience was the same. No complaints so far.
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Unfortunately the group has indeed been dying a slow death since 2011-2012....the monthly post numbers don’t lie. I’m willing to bet that the decline in monthly posts corresponds directly to when Yahoo switched from the original group interface to the new NEO interface...and its dropped even more recently with all the buggy behaviour that Yahoo has been exhibiting. It’s unfortunate.
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This isn’t dead. I’m a proponent of moving to groups.io.?
Facebook isn’t the answer. I’m a member of many groups there. It is way too easy to post on Facebook allowing for comments to get out of hand. It’s a very difficult user interface for historical references.
I’m finding groups.io easier to access compared to groups.yahoo. I’m more active in groups that have moved.?
I might be able to find time to help move is the group owners are interested.?
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Ed...the group is pretty moribund...this subject thread was the first post in 3 weeks. I think the biggest problem is the Yahoo groups interface has gotten so buggy..you can’t always log on or it freezes or one of any dozen issues. Not to mention the whole NEO interface that the Yahoo Groups switched to a few years ago is just a complete dogs breakfast. ?The transfer to Groups.Io is pretty seamless and they actually do all the work, our group owner doesn’t have to do that much, and we don’t have to do anything. If this group is going to survive and have a chance of returning to life it has to move ...or it will fade away over the next few months.
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No, you don’t change your e-mail from whatever you use with the Yahoo group now. Tom K
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On Jun 16, 2018, at 1:24 PM, john mac john2k_99@... [small-layout-design] < small-layout-design@...> wrote:
?
Being a long-time Yahoo mail subscriber and social media dinosaur, would a group change to mean having to get a Google mail account to send and receive the group's emails? ?I don't do Facebook. ?Would the 'small-layout-design' ID be able to stay the same for wayfinding purposes among all the group titles, or would some new group name have to be coined? ?Just asking, if anyone more savvy about these things has give this matter some thought, thanks.
John McGarrity, Charleston WV
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It seems to have pretty much died except for some of us hard core - won't leave until they turn the lights out people. About the same story as most of the Yahoo groups.
Ron
SMRR
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As the “owner” of a Yahoo group that moved to I can tell you it didn’t take any computer savvy. makes it very easy, and they do all the work of copying all the content to the new group. Tom K.
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On Jun 16, 2018, at 11:40 PM, Ed Weldon 23.weldon@... [small-layout-design] < small-layout-design@...> wrote:
?
The group isn't dead.? It seems to be very much alive with spectators
talking about its death.? Really is the answer; but I think
the small layout group owner(is this person still with us?) has to take
the initiative if files, photos, etc. are going to move as a mass.??
From what I've observed this is going to take a good bit of work for
someone with enough computer savvy to be able to do it.
The real question is whether any of you still reading the posts have
anything to contribute to get a discussion going.? For me, I can no
longer log on to Yahoo because they no longer like my password and I
can't seem to get past that barrier.? I can still participate via email
and I can still view the photos, files, etc.? So I'm thinking I'll go
into the photo section and collect a few recent small layout track plans
and layout construction images before the whole thing dies.
BTW, participation in for me is still a lot of fun. My
favorites in are a few of the model train groups like
NarrowGaugeChat, HOn3, Hon30, On30conspiracy, CivilWarRailroads,
EarlyRail, RepowerAndRegear, Sn2Trains, 18inch and two local resident
groups, 95033talk and Seattlemetalheads.? All of these work pretty much
like the old pre-Neo Yahoo groups without the BS.
Meantime all you guys singing "death songs" tell us what you are doing
these days with your model railroading hobby even if it is only waiting
for your busy life to open a time slot for you to build or at least plan
something.? I'll start with telling you about mine.
I finally started a major redo on the 42" x 73" HO layout I built for
the kids 40 years ago and never threw away.? It was an "L" girder folded
figure 8 with a double slip switch instead of a crossing and a passing
siding that allowed two trains to run simultaneously (2 kids).? I tore
out all the HO track, plaster scenery and revised the levels and widened
it to 47".? So now there is a 15" radius reversing loop in the low level
middle with a connector to allow a short continuous run and 360 degree
mainline that leaves the lower loop, climbs the outside boundary and
leaves at one corner for a connection to a future module.? All in code
70 ready laid HOn3.? I still have to put down some roadbed and tune the
grades (easy with "L" girder risers) before I lay track.? This whole
thing will weigh about 70 lbs when finished and will fit in the bed of
my little Toyota pickup (above the wheel wells) with the tailgate
closed.? I can move it myself by lifting one end at a time. I have an
electric 4 cord hoist to get it out of the middle of my workshop stored
up against the ceiling and getting it from there to the truck involves a
hand truck with some minor? mods. BTW the theme is narrow gauge Colorado
1880 mining, etc.
I had one other thought.? I went into Costco the other day and on the
way out grabbed one of the used cardboard display boxes from the
cosmetics section to hold my purchases.? This one was double wall 23
inches long 7-1/2" deep and about 12 inches high on 2 short and one long
(23") side.? The other 23 inch side was about inches high.? I cut it
down to make a storage box out of it; but while doing I got to thinking
that one could put 4" of pink or blue foam in it and lay down the
roadbed and tracks for an N scale or HOn30 inglenook and have 3 sides
for backdrop or building fronts.? This is a one afternoon project to get
ready for scenery and the result will store easily on top of a book case
or a couple of shelf brackets.? The box colors were black and yellow
with printing on the outside; but a spray can of a pleasing color would
fix that.
Ed Weldon (Los Gatos Summit, CA)
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John..for Groups.io ?the name can stay the same...you can use your regular email.
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The move to groups.io is pretty much seamless. All you need to do is
remember to send messages to a different address.
Lets make it happen!
Cheers
David
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I agree with you Chris, as all of my other e-groups have gone to .io so I
did too, without any problems as you say.
?
TonyW.
?
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From: 'Chris' chris.g6wzd@...
[small-layout-design]
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 9:17 AM
To: small-layout-design@...
Subject: RE: [small-layout-design] Group dead.
?
?
Hi
John,
Well from my
experience the entire process is painless.
Everything
stays the same and the user does not have to do anything.
Very little
effort is required by the owner of the group either.
Groups.io do
all the hard work and transfer all the files.
The users get
an email stating that the group will be moving and once moved another email to
say that it has now moved.
The user can
then log on and all the emails are sent to whatever email address was used by
Yahoo
It’s all in the
hands of the owner.
Cheers
Chris
From: small-layout-design@...
[mailto:small-layout-design@...]
Sent: 16 June, 2018
23:25
To: small-layout-design@...
Subject: Re:
[small-layout-design] Group dead.
?
Being a long-time Yahoo mail subscriber
and social media dinosaur, would a group change to Groups.io mean having to get
a Google mail account to send and receive the group's emails?? I don't do
Facebook.? Would the 'small-layout-design' ID be able to stay the same for
wayfinding purposes among all the Groups.io group titles, or would some new
group name have to be coined?? Just asking, if anyone more savvy about
these things has give this matter some thought, thanks.
John McGarrity, Charleston
WV
From: "Ron Hunt btlarea@...
[small-layout-design]"
To:
small-layout-design@...
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2018
11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [small-layout-design] Group dead.
?
It seems
to have pretty much died except for some of us hard core - won't leave until
they turn the lights out people. About the same story as most of the Yahoo
groups.
|
Re: A small layout in the Turntable
Thanks for posting this link Tom. I live in the UK and so am not in the
NMRA, so would have missed it othewise!
?
TonyW,
Leeds, England.
?
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Show quoted text
From: Thomas Knapp thomasknapp@...
[small-layout-design]
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2018 4:53 PM
To: small-layout-design@...
Subject: [small-layout-design] A small layout in the
Turntable
?
?
You NMRA members have
probably already seen this, but for those that haven’t the latest NMRA
Turntable has a link to this video by Charles Schmuck of his Nn3
Mini-Layout:
Lots
of other good links in this issue of the Turntable as
well.
Tom K.
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I'm still here and building models every day.
Small layouts are my only layout interest.
Big bowls of spaghetti are fine for lunch on Sunday, but of no interest in the model railroad hobby. ? Darryl Huffman darrylhuffman@...
You can follow my model building career on my blog at:
http://ghosttownmodels.blogspot.com/
Remember, without closets, model manufacturers would never be profitable.
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Hi John, Well from my experience the entire process is painless. Everything stays the same and the user does not have to do anything. Very little effort is required by the owner of the group either. Groups.io do all the hard work and transfer all the files. The users get an email stating that the group will be moving and once moved another email to say that it has now moved. The user can then log on and all the emails are sent to whatever email address was used by Yahoo ? It’s all in the hands of the owner. ? Cheers Chris ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: small-layout-design@... [mailto:small-layout-design@...]
Sent: 16 June, 2018 23:25
To: small-layout-design@...
Subject: Re: [small-layout-design] Group dead.? ? Being a long-time Yahoo mail subscriber and social media dinosaur, would a group change to Groups.io mean having to get a Google mail account to send and receive the group's emails? ?I don't do Facebook. ?Would the 'small-layout-design' ID be able to stay the same for wayfinding purposes among all the Groups.io group titles, or would some new group name have to be coined? ?Just asking, if anyone more savvy about these things has give this matter some thought, thanks. John McGarrity, Charleston WV From: "Ron Hunt btlarea@... [small-layout-design]"
To: small-layout-design@...
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2018 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [small-layout-design] Group dead. ? ? It seems to have pretty much died except for some of us hard core - won't leave until they turn the lights out people. About the same story as most of the Yahoo groups. ?
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The group isn't dead.? It seems to be very much alive with spectators talking about its death.? Really Groups.io is the answer; but I think the small layout group owner(is this person still with us?) has to take the initiative if files, photos, etc. are going to move as a mass.?? From what I've observed this is going to take a good bit of work for someone with enough computer savvy to be able to do it.
The real question is whether any of you still reading the posts have anything to contribute to get a discussion going.? For me, I can no longer log on to Yahoo because they no longer like my password and I can't seem to get past that barrier.? I can still participate via email and I can still view the photos, files, etc.? So I'm thinking I'll go into the photo section and collect a few recent small layout track plans and layout construction images before the whole thing dies.
BTW, participation in groups.io for me is still a lot of fun. My favorites in Groups.io are a few of the model train groups like NarrowGaugeChat, HOn3, Hon30, On30conspiracy, CivilWarRailroads, EarlyRail, RepowerAndRegear, Sn2Trains, 18inch and two local resident groups, 95033talk and Seattlemetalheads.? All of these work pretty much like the old pre-Neo Yahoo groups without the BS.
Meantime all you guys singing "death songs" tell us what you are doing these days with your model railroading hobby even if it is only waiting for your busy life to open a time slot for you to build or at least plan something.? I'll start with telling you about mine.
I finally started a major redo on the 42" x 73" HO layout I built for the kids 40 years ago and never threw away.? It was an "L" girder folded figure 8 with a double slip switch instead of a crossing and a passing siding that allowed two trains to run simultaneously (2 kids).? I tore out all the HO track, plaster scenery and revised the levels and widened it to 47".? So now there is a 15" radius reversing loop in the low level middle with a connector to allow a short continuous run and 360 degree mainline that leaves the lower loop, climbs the outside boundary and leaves at one corner for a connection to a future module.? All in code 70 ready laid HOn3.? I still have to put down some roadbed and tune the grades (easy with "L" girder risers) before I lay track.? This whole thing will weigh about 70 lbs when finished and will fit in the bed of my little Toyota pickup (above the wheel wells) with the tailgate closed.? I can move it myself by lifting one end at a time. I have an electric 4 cord hoist to get it out of the middle of my workshop stored up against the ceiling and getting it from there to the truck involves a hand truck with some minor? mods. BTW the theme is narrow gauge Colorado 1880 mining, etc.
I had one other thought.? I went into Costco the other day and on the way out grabbed one of the used cardboard display boxes from the cosmetics section to hold my purchases.? This one was double wall 23 inches long 7-1/2" deep and about 12 inches high on 2 short and one long (23") side.? The other 23 inch side was about inches high.? I cut it down to make a storage box out of it; but while doing I got to thinking that one could put 4" of pink or blue foam in it and lay down the roadbed and tracks for an N scale or HOn30 inglenook and have 3 sides for backdrop or building fronts.? This is a one afternoon project to get ready for scenery and the result will store easily on top of a book case or a couple of shelf brackets.? The box colors were black and yellow with printing on the outside; but a spray can of a pleasing color would fix that.
Ed Weldon (Los Gatos Summit, CA)
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Thomas Knapp
David Bromage
Darryl Huffman
Chris