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Re: Voice ID'er for P25 Repeater

Ron Sales
 

Why ruin a good repeater with junk like that P25 is supposed to be
quiet.


From: "'Rob Lee' rob@... [Repeater-Builder]"
To: Repeater-Builder@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 9:43 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Voice ID'er for P25 Repeater

?
Looking for just a voice identifier for a P25 repeater. Any suggestions?
Re: Ge mastr ii mobile IF tuning module

Der Fragalemeister : The O'le Tron Herder
 


? Are you talking about the front end and multiplier/injection casting?
? I have apparently missed out on some other kind of "metal Flaking" if so.
? THe castings are famous for tuning screw to bore corrosion and then there's the tin whisker problem with in the casting, but I hadn't heard of an IF type metalic problem.
? DWF
In a message dated 9/11/2018 11:15:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, Repeater-Builder@... writes:



Does anyone know where I can find one of the better, modified vhf IF tuning coil modules that doesn't have the metal flaking problems.? I understand there was a better one that is not prone to this problem....tnx...Kerry, wa2nan



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
Ge mastr ii mobile IF tuning module

kerry
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Does anyone know where I can find one of the better, modified vhf IF tuning coil modules that doesn't have the metal flaking problems.? I understand there was a better one that is not prone to this problem....tnx...Kerry, wa2nan
Kerry@...



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
Voice ID'er for P25 Repeater

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Looking for just a voice identifier for a P25 repeater. Any suggestions?
Re: some simulcast questions

 

The design bug in the RTCM is easily and effectively remedied, as documented in the videos I mentioned above. Excellent results.?

BTW as I recall WB6NIL (the inventor of the original "voter board" which became the RTCM) had an multisite system deployed for a law enforcement agency here in Southern California.?

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:46 PM rhyolite@... [Repeater-Builder] <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
?

Since you are doing this for a FD it needs to be done correctly. Done poorly you will have distortion and paging tones will be distorted and fail, the audio poor and CTCSS may even suffer. You need to have exactly same transmitters on both ends. A good place to research the proper equipment is where you can research proven solutions,

Ed OConner has decades of experience and his site has a lot of application notes and studies.

You will need someone to perform a simulcast coverage map if the proposed system. A proper map will take into account the differential time delay between sites and will highlight areas of potential distortion. You might get away without this step on a two site system if the sites are close to each other, however there will be time delay interference distortion and you need to know where it occurs duruping the planning stage.

Someone brought up the RTCM. It is an attractive low cost alternative, however it has a design bug with resided to the 9.6 MHz clock. Fixing this is not simple. The RTCM is really not suitable for public safety instaklations.

You will need a voter for simulcast and the JPS SNV12 is the only product I would recommen at this time.

Linking sites requires a digital circuit that is low jitter and has stable latency. The internet won't work in this case.

--
KJ6QFS
Sam Skolfield
Re: G.E. MIII 450-470 conversion question

 

2.5 inchs, is that bare foot or with shoe's??
and pointing south east, that's for north hemisphere, what about in the southern hemisphere?
Our aussie friend could be led to point to the wrong place..



Le?lun. 10 sept. 2018 ¨¤?20:23, skipp025@... [Repeater-Builder] <Repeater-Builder@...> a ¨¦crit?:
?

> The way to flip the injection when you go below 450 is to enter
> the receive frequency in the field and then hit CTRL-E while still
> on that field, then press "O".

Could be worse... I've heard certain manufactures require burning Nag
Champa Incense in the room, an NPR broadcast station playing at
medium volume and you've got to hold your foot 2.5 inches off the
ground, pointed south east while you press the keyboard sequence.

Then you might end up with DMR even thought you wanted something
different. Might just be a rumor... or urban legend type story.

cheers,
Monty Hall

Re: Same feedline

 

Thank you for all the input. I know a diplexer would be needed at the bottom side at a minimum in addition to the Bp/Br duplexers for each repeater. The topside is what I was wondering about. The only diplexers I can find online so far are for microwave frequencies or the diamond and comet ones which are of concern to me since this will be up on the tower and I don't climb. Does anyone have a recommendation for something better ? I'm trying to go as worry free but reasonably priced as possible. I may ultimately forgo the 6m at the location if I have to. I have someone who will be climbing to put the antennas and feed line on the tower so I'm trying to keep things as compact as possible since they are donating their time.
Re: some simulcast questions

 

Dude, no!?
Set up a private node not affiliated with Allstarlink registry and deploy a few RTCMs and go look what joe KC2IRV did with disciplining the 9.6MHz clock of the RTCM's PIC to GPS, along with the radio's PLL.?


This is by far easier and cheaper than monkeying with commercial simulcast solutions, and according to Joe KC2IRV who does simulcast for a living, it's just about as good!?

Everyone's own solution is always the best solution, and I acknowledge that most people's skill sets and experience hereshadow mine, but do yourself a favor and watch Joe's videos.?

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 5:04 AM Ross Johnson kc7rjk@... [Repeater-Builder] <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
?

Are you saying you can't use the rtcm because of legality? I don't believe that to be the case at all. Maybe it's different in Australia vs the US but I don't believe so.?


Ross kc7rjk



On Sep 10, 2018 5:45 AM, "David E Thurman david.e.thurman@... [Repeater-Builder]" <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
?

No Part 90 use, we looked into similar for not for profit rescue group.?

Was kindly told no for using outside HAM interests.?

--
David Thurman
Australian Shepherd Rescue Midwest - President
(309)863-5211 Extention 402
(309)216-6444 Fax
info@...

On Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 7:41 AM Ross Johnson kc7rjk@... [Repeater-Builder] <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
?

Hey Jed,

A different but affordable outside the box approach.?



Good luck!

Best regards,
Ross kc7rjk

On Sep 9, 2018 3:25 PM, "Jed Barton jed@... [Repeater-Builder]" <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
?

Hey guys,

OK, so here we go. I've been given a challenge, to help an fd get
better coverage. We've gotta take this 1 step at a time. So right
now they are on vhf.
They have a single site repeater. We're thinking simulcast right now.
The repeater is a quantar. So, keeping the current repeater in its
current home, let's ay we add 1 more to the mix, doing a simulcast,
what would we need?
This is my 1st simulcast adventure, and i actually wanna learn more
about it to help them out.

Thanks,
Jed



--
KJ6QFS
Sam Skolfield
Re: some simulcast questions

 

Does injecting instead of CTCSS, using DCS or digital squelch.

What about instead using P25 or a DMR variant??

I agree with others, those Quantar's should stay in service. Decent machines. We run a UHF P25 system conventional to cover 3 counties (on handheld) and have toyed with a 2 or 3 site voter/simulcast system. Costs are my concern for the amount of needed coverage, considering mobile repeaters instead.
- -
David E Thurman
Australian Shepherd Rescue Midwest
President
(309) 863-5211 Ext 402
(309) 216-6444 Fax

"Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in." ¡ª Mark Twain



On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 9:59 AM Joe k1ike_mail@... [Repeater-Builder] <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
?

On 9/9/2018 8:52 PM, Steve steve4@... [Repeater-Builder] wrote:
> If they are analog and transmit PL, and have overlapping coverage, you¡¯ll hear a buzz in those areas unless the PL on both signals is in-phase at the receiver. That¡¯s the extent of my simulcast experience.
>

One of the old simulcast solutions would be to have a master CTCSS
oscillator at the control point and send the tone to all the transmit
sites.? If you used RF links and they had flat audio response, the CTCSS
tone could be included with the receiver audio.

Here's a thought.? If the individual transmitters were synced to a GPS
source, and the individual CTCSS oscillators at each transmitter
developed the tone from the same oscillator source, this may be a
solution to the CTCSS problem.? Some accommodation would have to be made
for CTCSS audio delay.

Thoughts?

Joe
Re: some simulcast questions

 

On 9/9/2018 8:52 PM, Steve steve4@... [Repeater-Builder] wrote:
If they are analog and transmit PL, and have overlapping coverage, you¡¯ll hear a buzz in those areas unless the PL on both signals is in-phase at the receiver. That¡¯s the extent of my simulcast experience.
One of the old simulcast solutions would be to have a master CTCSS oscillator at the control point and send the tone to all the transmit sites.? If you used RF links and they had flat audio response, the CTCSS tone could be included with the receiver audio.

Here's a thought.? If the individual transmitters were synced to a GPS source, and the individual CTCSS oscillators at each transmitter developed the tone from the same oscillator source, this may be a solution to the CTCSS problem.? Some accommodation would have to be made for CTCSS audio delay.


Thoughts?

Joe
Re: some simulcast questions

 

Looking at the license and contacting them a few years back produced that answer to me.

- -
David E Thurman
Australian Shepherd Rescue Midwest
President
(309) 863-5211 Ext 402
(309) 216-6444 Fax

"Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in." ¡ª Mark Twain



On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 7:04 AM Ross Johnson kc7rjk@... [Repeater-Builder] <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
?

Are you saying you can't use the rtcm because of legality? I don't believe that to be the case at all. Maybe it's different in Australia vs the US but I don't believe so.?


Ross kc7rjk


On Sep 10, 2018 5:45 AM, "David E Thurman david.e.thurman@... [Repeater-Builder]" <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
?

No Part 90 use, we looked into similar for not for profit rescue group.?

Was kindly told no for using outside HAM interests.?

--
David Thurman
Australian Shepherd Rescue Midwest - President
(309)863-5211 Extention 402
(309)216-6444 Fax
info@...

On Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 7:41 AM Ross Johnson kc7rjk@... [Repeater-Builder] <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
?

Hey Jed,

A different but affordable outside the box approach.?



Good luck!

Best regards,
Ross kc7rjk

On Sep 9, 2018 3:25 PM, "Jed Barton jed@... [Repeater-Builder]" <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
?

Hey guys,

OK, so here we go. I've been given a challenge, to help an fd get
better coverage. We've gotta take this 1 step at a time. So right
now they are on vhf.
They have a single site repeater. We're thinking simulcast right now.
The repeater is a quantar. So, keeping the current repeater in its
current home, let's ay we add 1 more to the mix, doing a simulcast,
what would we need?
This is my 1st simulcast adventure, and i actually wanna learn more
about it to help them out.

Thanks,
Jed
Re: some simulcast questions

 

We use the RTCM/Voter boards in a simulcast environment here. I have a UHF repeater with two sites currently (three sites are voted).?

They work well and there is no discernible CTCSS tone buzz or hum (all voter boards and audios are GPS locked). Identical gear.

Regards
Hayden VK7HH
Re: some simulcast questions

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Multicast might be easier... we have a couple of four site multicast sites operating in our area... poor man¡¯s way is w/ same repeater input, different squelch codes, and different transmitter frequencies. One county ties the four repeaters together at the console... and ours uses RF links between the four sites, via a rock and mobile radio.?


On Sep 10, 2018, at 4:28 PM, Matthew Kaufman matthew@... [Repeater-Builder] <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:

?

Another thing to think about is to do what a few fire departments around here have done... add another site, use the same input frequency at all sites with a voter, but have different outputs. Yes, you'll need another frequency coordinated, but you were going to have to do most of that for simulcast anyway.

Both San Mateo County and Monterey County, California are running setups like this.

Matthew Kaufman

On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 3:25 PM Jed Barton jed@... [Repeater-Builder] <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
Hey guys,

OK, so here we go.? I've been given a challenge, to help an fd get
better coverage.? We've gotta take this 1 step at a time.? So right
now they are on vhf.
They have a single site repeater.? We're thinking simulcast right now.
The repeater is a quantar.? So, keeping the current repeater in its
current home, let's ay we add 1 more to the mix, doing a simulcast,
what would we need?
This is my 1st simulcast adventure, and i actually wanna learn more
about it to help them out.

Thanks,
Jed


------------------------------------
Posted by: Jed Barton <jed@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

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Re: G.E. MIII 450-470 conversion question

Gary HENDRICKSON
 

Gee, Monty, I sure hope that's an urban legend!

73, Gary


On Monday, September 10, 2018 8:23 PM, "skipp025@... [Repeater-Builder]" wrote:


?
> The way to flip the injection when you go below 450 is to enter
> the receive frequency in the field and then hit CTRL-E while still
> on that field, then press "O".

Could be worse... I've heard certain manufactures require burning Nag
Champa Incense in the room, an NPR broadcast station playing at
medium volume and you've got to hold your foot 2.5 inches off the
ground, pointed south east while you press the keyboard sequence.

Then you might end up with DMR even thought you wanted something
different. Might just be a rumor... or urban legend type story.

cheers,
Monty Hall



Re: G.E. MIII 450-470 conversion question

[email protected]
 

The way to flip the injection when you go below 450 is to enter
the receive frequency in the field and then hit CTRL-E while still
on that field, then press "O".
Could be worse... I've heard certain manufactures require burning Nag
Champa Incense in the room, an NPR broadcast station playing at
medium volume and you've got to hold your foot 2.5 inches off the
ground, pointed south east while you press the keyboard sequence.

Then you might end up with DMR even thought you wanted something
different. Might just be a rumor... or urban legend type story.



cheers,
Monty Hall
Re: some simulcast questions

 

Are you saying you can't use the rtcm because of legality? I don't believe that to be the case at all. Maybe it's different in Australia vs the US but I don't believe so.?


Ross kc7rjk


On Sep 10, 2018 5:45 AM, "David E Thurman david.e.thurman@... [Repeater-Builder]" <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
?

No Part 90 use, we looked into similar for not for profit rescue group.?

Was kindly told no for using outside HAM interests.?

--
David Thurman
Australian Shepherd Rescue Midwest - President
(309)863-5211 Extention 402
(309)216-6444 Fax
info@...

On Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 7:41 AM Ross Johnson kc7rjk@... [Repeater-Builder] <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
?

Hey Jed,

A different but affordable outside the box approach.?



Good luck!

Best regards,
Ross kc7rjk

On Sep 9, 2018 3:25 PM, "Jed Barton jed@... [Repeater-Builder]" <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
?

Hey guys,

OK, so here we go. I've been given a challenge, to help an fd get
better coverage. We've gotta take this 1 step at a time. So right
now they are on vhf.
They have a single site repeater. We're thinking simulcast right now.
The repeater is a quantar. So, keeping the current repeater in its
current home, let's ay we add 1 more to the mix, doing a simulcast,
what would we need?
This is my 1st simulcast adventure, and i actually wanna learn more
about it to help them out.

Thanks,
Jed
Re: some simulcast questions

 

Another thing to think about is to do what a few fire departments around here have done... add another site, use the same input frequency at all sites with a voter, but have different outputs. Yes, you'll need another frequency coordinated, but you were going to have to do most of that for simulcast anyway.

Both San Mateo County and Monterey County, California are running setups like this.

Matthew Kaufman


On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 3:25 PM Jed Barton jed@... [Repeater-Builder] <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
Hey guys,

OK, so here we go.? I've been given a challenge, to help an fd get
better coverage.? We've gotta take this 1 step at a time.? So right
now they are on vhf.
They have a single site repeater.? We're thinking simulcast right now.
The repeater is a quantar.? So, keeping the current repeater in its
current home, let's ay we add 1 more to the mix, doing a simulcast,
what would we need?
This is my 1st simulcast adventure, and i actually wanna learn more
about it to help them out.

Thanks,
Jed


------------------------------------
Posted by: Jed Barton <jed@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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<*> Your email settings:
? ? Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
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? ? (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
? ? Repeater-Builder-digest@...
? ? Repeater-Builder-fullfeatured@...

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Re: some simulcast questions

 

Where exactly is the one repeater, and where exactly are you having coverage issues (and are they in one or more places, and is it indoors or out that's having the trouble)?

A Quantar is actually a perfectly reasonable repeater to use for conventional simulcast, so I wouldn't be tossing that out. Lots of solutions involving wireline, old-school microwave, and of course IP-based wireless or wired solutions abound.

But the first thing is to figure out, on a map, what you're trying to do. I've got a lot of experience filling in coverage gaps with my own homebuilt simulcast system, so shoot over some details.

Matthew Kaufman


On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 3:25 PM Jed Barton jed@... [Repeater-Builder] <Repeater-Builder@...> wrote:
Hey guys,

OK, so here we go.? I've been given a challenge, to help an fd get
better coverage.? We've gotta take this 1 step at a time.? So right
now they are on vhf.
They have a single site repeater.? We're thinking simulcast right now.
The repeater is a quantar.? So, keeping the current repeater in its
current home, let's ay we add 1 more to the mix, doing a simulcast,
what would we need?
This is my 1st simulcast adventure, and i actually wanna learn more
about it to help them out.

Thanks,
Jed


------------------------------------
Posted by: Jed Barton <jed@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
? ?

<*> Your email settings:
? ? Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
? ?
? ? (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
? ? Repeater-Builder-digest@...
? ? Repeater-Builder-fullfeatured@...

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Re: Same feedline

 

VNA and Smith charts anyone?

Milt
N3LTQ
That's the only way you're going to get any meaningful answers or usable
results.

Lacking the tools and skills to do it the right way, a broadband diplexer is
the easy way out.

--- Jeff WN3A
Re: G.E. MIII 450-470 conversion question

 

I'm sure there is a way to do it, but personally, I don't
have any experience with 450-470 MIII's. I tried programming
the "image" frequency, and that didn't work.
Gary,

When operating 420-450, the Rx Synthesizer produces the opposite injection
as compared to 450-470. So, when you program a frequency below 450 MHz, you
have to flip the injection back the original way in order to stay within the
design range of the VCO and injection filters. The way to flip the
injection when you go below 450 is to enter the receive frequency in the
field and then hit CTRL-E while still on that field, then press "O".

--- Jeff WN3A
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