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Re: Connecting Yaesu DR2X Repeater to Raspberry Pi/Allstar?

Chris Smart
 

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Thanks Steve.

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73,

Chris

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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of N8AR
Sent: November 1, 2022 9:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Connecting Yaesu DR2X Repeater to Raspberry Pi/Allstar?

?

Here is a link to a program called PiTone which can be used to create a CTCSS tone.? PiTone runs on a Raspberry Pi (can be the same one that is running Allstar).? It uses a D/A converter connected to the I2C bus to create a stepped sinewave which is easy to filter to a "pure" sinwave.



We have used it on our local repeaters (DR-1X and Micor) for more than 4 years.

Steve - N8AR

Re: Connecting Yaesu DR2X Repeater to Raspberry Pi/Allstar?

 

Here is a link to a program called PiTone which can be used to create a CTCSS tone.? PiTone runs on a Raspberry Pi (can be the same one that is running Allstar).? It uses a D/A converter connected to the I2C bus to create a stepped sinewave which is easy to filter to a "pure" sinwave.



We have used it on our local repeaters (DR-1X and Micor) for more than 4 years.

Steve - N8AR
Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

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Jared,

We need to quantify why (and when) the repeater is "deaf".

Next time you're at the site, do the following:

1 - Disconnect the repeater from the duplexer.?
2 - Connect the repeater antenna to the receiver - directly.?
3 - Terminate the transmitter into a suitable dummy load.
4 - Get a friend to help or use the service monitor to produce a weak signal into the repeater.? This must be a stable emission that's repeatable.? It can't be full quieting - some noise needs to be preset to detect a change in quieting.
5 - Reconnect the antenna to the duplexer, and receiver to the duplexer, but do NOT connect the transmitter - - leave it on the load.
6 - Compare the signal quality (quieting) between the antenna being connected directly to the receiver and additionally through the duplexer.? At 1.67 dB IL - they should be virtually identical.
** If there is little/no difference between the signal level with the antenna connected directly to the receiver and through the receive path of the duplexer, the 'disappointment' is not the duplexers' fault.? You could swap in a different receiver, even a HT temporarily to see how well it hears in comparison.? Just remove whatever you substitute and reconnect the repeater's receiver before you continue.
7 - Remove the transmitter from the load and connect the transmitter to the duplexer.
8 - Wire a toggle switch into the PTT lead to instantly disable the repeaters transmitter.
9 - Compare the weak signal with the transmitter "ON" and "OFF".? They should be virtually identical.

A - If there's a notable difference in quieting with the antenna connected directly to the receiver and then through the receive path of the duplexer - the RX path insertion loss isn't really 1.67dB.
B - If there's a difference in quieting between when the repeater transmitter is on and off - you have classic desense.

Let us know the results.

Kevin

On 11/1/2022 6:55 PM, Jared Smudde wrote:

So the transmit side cavities all have 29db-32db of return loss at pass frequency, 30db of notch rejection and 0.4db of IL at the pass frequencies.

I went to the receive cavity causing trouble and slid the tuning rod all the way up and cleaned the rod with some fine sandpaper and wiped it down with denatured alcohol. I then took the rod and ran it up and down the cavity several times all while rotating the rod at the same time. I was able to get the return loss to 30DB on the cavity. Probably had to clean some varnish off of the rod and tuning fingers.

I reattached the harness and each side had about 1.67db of insertion loss and I was able to get the notch over 105db on each side.

I hooked up the repeater and was met with disappointment, repeater is still deaf with no improvement.

Re: Windows 7 config

 

Hey, we are all human :)
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Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

I think we need to redefine 'deaf'. What are the current 12dB SINAD 1) at the receiver port, and 2) at the antenna port of the duplexer? (Those values were previously reported as 0.40 and 0.53 uV respectively.)

Originally the problem was reported as " basically deaf to 5 watt portables barely a mile from my house, mobiles work a bit further" and about 1 dB of desense was reported.

We need to make sure we're comparing apples to apples. At this point, portable or mobile coverage and anything to do with the antenna system (except the duplexer) needs to be OUT of the equation.

Measurements all need to be made using the same test cables and the same signal generator/service monitor. Anything else introduces errors/uncertainties. The receiver itself (with no TX engaged) needs to be baselined to see if it meets specs (0.35 uV for 12 dB SINAD I believe), and if it does not, that needs to be addressed. Adding in the duplexer, sensitivity should decrease only by the amount of loss previously recorded in the Pass. If the Pass is measured as 'X' and the receiver sensitivity decreases by more-than-'X', than something is amiss at the Circle K and investigation needs to determine the cause.

Sometimes it's helpful to take a day off, go poke .45 caliber holes in paper, then come back to it with a fresh mind, starting over at square one.

My 2-cents worth.

Mike
WM4B

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of MILLIN SEE
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2022 8:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

Sounds like your forcing that duplexer outside it's parameter.

Millin
----- Original Message -----
From: Jared Smudde <computerwhiz02@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 01 Nov 2022 16:55:15 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

So the transmit side cavities all have 29db-32db of return loss at pass frequency, 30db of notch rejection and 0.4db of IL at the pass frequencies.

I went to the receive cavity causing trouble and slid the tuning rod all the way up and cleaned the rod with some fine sandpaper and wiped it down with denatured alcohol. I then took the rod and ran it up and down the cavity several times all while rotating the rod at the same time. I was able to get the return loss to 30DB on the cavity. Probably had to clean some varnish off of the rod and tuning fingers.

I reattached the harness and each side had about 1.67db of insertion loss and I was able to get the notch over 105db on each side.

I hooked up the repeater and was met with disappointment, repeater is still deaf with no improvement.
Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

Sounds like your forcing that duplexer outside it's parameter.

Millin

----- Original Message -----
From: Jared Smudde <computerwhiz02@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 01 Nov 2022 16:55:15 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

So the transmit side cavities all have 29db-32db of return loss at pass frequency, 30db of notch rejection and 0.4db of IL at the pass frequencies.

I went to the receive cavity causing trouble and slid the tuning rod all the way up and cleaned the rod with some fine sandpaper and wiped it down with denatured alcohol. I then took the rod and ran it up and down the cavity several times all while rotating the rod at the same time. I was able to get the return loss to 30DB on the cavity. Probably had to clean some varnish off of the rod and tuning fingers.

I reattached the harness and each side had about 1.67db of insertion loss and I was able to get the notch over 105db on each side.

I hooked up the repeater and was met with disappointment, repeater is still deaf with no improvement.
Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

So the transmit side cavities all have 29db-32db of return loss at pass frequency, 30db of notch rejection and 0.4db of IL at the pass frequencies.

I went to the receive cavity causing trouble and slid the tuning rod all the way up and cleaned the rod with some fine sandpaper and wiped it down with denatured alcohol. I then took the rod and ran it up and down the cavity several times all while rotating the rod at the same time. I was able to get the return loss to 30DB on the cavity. Probably had to clean some varnish off of the rod and tuning fingers.

I reattached the harness and each side had about 1.67db of insertion loss and I was able to get the notch over 105db on each side.

I hooked up the repeater and was met with disappointment, repeater is still deaf with no improvement.
Re: Windows 7 config

 

I am not using a repeater. Just using vara fm and winlink. Will be using a cdm1250. Just looking for information on the software side. Sorry for stirring the pot


On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 11:15 AM, Chris Boone
<setxtelecom@...> wrote:
Ok...I obviously missed the data part lol...

Chris WB5ITT?

On Tue, Nov 1, 2022, 12:59 PM Scott Currie <scott.d.currie@...> wrote:
Correct, we're not talking about repeaters here. We are taking discriminator audio to the sound card interface for decoding, and sending modulated data from the sound card to the modulator. Obviously if you set the transmit gain too high you will cause interference on adjacent channels. And it will also destroy the data being sent, so a really bad idea.

This discussion would be better handled on the Winlink and Vara forums:

/g/VARA-MODEM/topics

-Scott, NS7C

Re: Somewhat OT... imaging a hard drive...

 

I know it has been proposed?but I use ?
it works on any pc, 32 bit or 64. And if you plug a MAC SATA disk into an external drive bay it will even make a nice image of it or even duplicate it to a new drive.Works on IDE and on SSD's even works on USB attached drive.?
Simple GUI and the main thing, it is free!




Le?lun. 31 oct. 2022 ¨¤?14:49, wj9jrg <wj9jrg@...> a ¨¦crit?:
You can do the same thing with version 7.?? ebay item 144675644126

On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 2:25 PM M M <wa6ilq@...> wrote:
Andy WJ9J wrote:
> For the OP, what was the issue with using Ghost 8 anyway?? It can boot into DOS and backup to any CD / DVD or flash.


Nothing - except that I can't find a copy of Ghost 8.

Jim Aspinwall wrote:

?

>? Just made up two legacy dual-boot DOS and XP laptops for a regional radio shop to keep up service for legacy rigs.?

Which laptop did you use?

I've been using two CF-series Toughbooks for radio programming just because they have a hardware serial port.?

Solves a lot of USB to serial issues.?? I have a CF-27 (288mhz) that boots to MS-DOS (or Win98SE), and a CF30 with 32 bit Win7,
There's a CF29 on the shelf to back up the CF-30.

> Then ask me about USB-RS-232 adapters...

I've had friends that don't have hardware serial ports switch to Mark Dunkle's FTDI cables...
that one step solved a LOT of their radio programming issues.? ()

And for USB debugging situations I pull out a serial adapter with an FTDI chip and individual LEDs for TX and RX ...
Something like this:?

Mike WA6ILQ
Re: Windows 7 config

 

Ok...I obviously missed the data part lol...

Chris WB5ITT?

On Tue, Nov 1, 2022, 12:59 PM Scott Currie <scott.d.currie@...> wrote:
Correct, we're not talking about repeaters here. We are taking discriminator audio to the sound card interface for decoding, and sending modulated data from the sound card to the modulator. Obviously if you set the transmit gain too high you will cause interference on adjacent channels. And it will also destroy the data being sent, so a really bad idea.

This discussion would be better handled on the Winlink and Vara forums:

/g/VARA-MODEM/topics

-Scott, NS7C

Re: Windows 7 config

 

Correct, we're not talking about repeaters here. We are taking discriminator audio to the sound card interface for decoding, and sending modulated data from the sound card to the modulator. Obviously if you set the transmit gain too high you will cause interference on adjacent channels. And it will also destroy the data being sent, so a really bad idea.

This discussion would be better handled on the Winlink and Vara forums:

/g/VARA-MODEM/topics

-Scott, NS7C
Re: UHF Cans?

 

Looks small enough to be UHF. I can verify when I get home tonight.
That would be great! Thanks Jeff.

Tedd, VE3TJD
Your pic appears to be a UHF loop. Measuring one out of a 10" UHF cavity I have here, from the loop plate to the bottom of the loop is about 1.05" (about 1-1/16"), outside width of the loop is about 0.62" (about 5/8").

If you don't have a use for those, let me know, maybe we can trade for something you need.

--- Jeff WN3A




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Re: Windows 7 config

 

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He¡¯s using the radio for Winlink/VaraFM, not a repeater.? Data, not voice.

?

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Chris Boone
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2022 1:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Windows 7 config

?

?

I strongly disagree Scott... That's a recipe for disaster. Feeding wide band unsquelched noise to a modulator will cause the transmitter to over deviate. Remember the squelch noise out of a discriminator is half the bandwidth of the IF filter which means you have audio at 7.5 khz + coming out of the receiver.. Anytime I run flat audio, I always put a clipper/limiter circuit in line to prevent over deviation, and also to limit the audio bandwidth to 3 kilohertz maximum. Under FCC part 97 rules we are required to make sure that we use good engineering practices. Running raw discriminator audio straight into a transmitter modulator without any processing violates that rule. I've done that in microwave systems but that's a special case and you have the bandwidth to do it. In the crowded VHF/UHF bands, it's totally ludicrous to do so

?

Chris

WB5ITT?


That's the key here: Bypass as much of the radio's internal audio circuitry as possible - raw discriminator audio out, TX
audio directly to the modulator.

Scott

Scott Zimmerman
Amateur Radio Call N3XCC
474 Barnett Road
Boswell, PA 1553


Virus-free.
Re: Windows 7 config

 


I strongly disagree Scott... That's a recipe for disaster. Feeding wide band unsquelched noise to a modulator will cause the transmitter to over deviate. Remember the squelch noise out of a discriminator is half the bandwidth of the IF filter which means you have audio at 7.5 khz + coming out of the receiver.. Anytime I run flat audio, I always put a clipper/limiter circuit in line to prevent over deviation, and also to limit the audio bandwidth to 3 kilohertz maximum. Under FCC part 97 rules we are required to make sure that we use good engineering practices. Running raw discriminator audio straight into a transmitter modulator without any processing violates that rule. I've done that in microwave systems but that's a special case and you have the bandwidth to do it. In the crowded VHF/UHF bands, it's totally ludicrous to do so

Chris
WB5ITT?


That's the key here: Bypass as much of the radio's internal audio circuitry as possible - raw discriminator audio out, TX
audio directly to the modulator.

Scott

Scott Zimmerman
Amateur Radio Call N3XCC
474 Barnett Road
Boswell, PA 1553
Re: Quintron Corporation / Glenayre 70cm pager transmitter & Power Supply. Need info.

 

Thanks Burt, probably wouldn't be too difficult to put in a PTT actuated relay.
I remember the old SoCal days, Neil, and others. Was in Simu Valley ARC, and we had a 440 machine on Oat Mountain. I was WB6CLE at that time. Now in WA near Seattle.
Frank N6CES


On Tue, Nov 1, 2022, 7:05 AM Burt K6OQK <biwa@...> wrote:
I may be wrong here, but I recall a lot of problems on Mt. Wilson, and other sites, to broadcast 940 MHz STL's as well as VHF radios from Quintron paging transmitters.? As I recall, it was when drive was removed from them that they would oscillate in the final stage.? The cure was to remove the amplifier's voltage when they were supposed to be off rather than leaving the amplifiers powered up and simply removing drive.

Burt, K6OQK

Re: Windows 7 config

 

Scott,

It will depend on the radio used. For most Mot. radios with the 16 pin connector, you don't need to do anything special in programming. For the CDM series with the 20 pin option connector, you need to plug the RIM into the center 16 pins and program the audio paths in and out for "flat" audio response.

That's the key here: Bypass as much of the radio's internal audio circuitry as possible - raw discriminator audio out, TX audio directly to the modulator.

Scott

Scott Zimmerman
Amateur Radio Call N3XCC
474 Barnett Road
Boswell, PA 15531

On 11/1/2022 9:27 AM, SCOTT READ wrote:
What do I need to do in the motorola programming software and Windows 7 to config the RIM-Maxtrac wit work with Winlink or Vara FM.
Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

Cavity 1: -23DB Return Loss at Pass Frequency, 0.4DB IL at Pass Frequency, -30DB IL/Notch at Reject Frequency
Cavity 2 (middle cavity): -30DB Return Loss at Pass Frequency, 0.4DB IL at Pass Frequency, -30DB IL/Notch At Reject Frequency
Cavity 3 (closest to antenna port): -29DB Return Loss at Pass Frequency, 0.4DB IL at Pass Frequency, -29DB IL/Notch at Reject Frequency
The return loss of the first cavity seems off. At 0.4 dB IL I would expect the match to be around -30 dB as you saw with the other two cavities. Is that the cavity that seemed to be giving you problems before?

So I found an old post on the group and found I do indeed have the high split harness.
I'm hesitant to write off all of the problems you experienced to the harness unless it is damaged. And I wouldn't go any further until seeing what's up with cavity #1.

Repeat the same exercise for the cavities on the transmit side.

--- Jeff WN3A



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Re: Quintron Corporation / Glenayre 70cm pager transmitter & Power Supply. Need info.

 

The boards look like those made by Aerotron. A definite blast from the past of the late 1970's version I used to maintain for hospitals in 160 mhz at multiple sites in NYC and CT. There were lots of them around on all bands and yes they were dirty.
For a real blast these were used with REACH pagers for the hospital paging. A 5 year LiOn battery life with sleep mode.
The ones I worked on were hi power 250 watt, and unfortunately I don't have any documentation from them. You might try looking at some Aerotron radio books of that era.
Re: Quintron Corporation / Glenayre 70cm pager transmitter & Power Supply. Need info.

 

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Yes, this series (QT6700??) were bad about intermod even with a good band pass band reject on them. I ended up figuring it was mixing in the exciter. It could come in if there was any spot on the cover that was not making perfect RF seal (they never did) or even coming in on the leads coming into the back of the transmitter if it was strong enough. The pins on the board that held the channel elements would corrode and bad about causing intermod problems.

If you are only using the PA, you should have a lot fewer problems. I might still have a spare PC somewhere in the junk. Also a quiet site without all of the IMTS, paging, and other constant on high power stations will be a great help!



On 11/1/2022 9:05 AM, Burt K6OQK wrote:

I may be wrong here, but I recall a lot of problems on Mt. Wilson, and other sites, to broadcast 940 MHz STL's as well as VHF radios from Quintron paging transmitters.? As I recall, it was when drive was removed from them that they would oscillate in the final stage.? The cure was to remove the amplifier's voltage when they were supposed to be off rather than leaving the amplifiers powered up and simply removing drive.

Burt, K6OQK

Re: Connecting Yaesu DR2X Repeater to Raspberry Pi/Allstar?

 

Is anyone still making outboard CTCSS encode and/or decode boards? CommSpec?

On 11/1/2022 10:16 AM, Larry Macionski via groups.io wrote:
On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 03:25 PM, Kevin Custer wrote:


The SC-50 and CT-30 are discontinued because the encoder/decoder IC in no
longer available.
Well, a year ago I codgered up substitution an Arduino Nano ($5) for the CTCSS encoder the DR2X requires if in the remote mode.
I have the "script" you down load to the Aurduino and it outputs a PL tone.? I'd have to do some digging to find my notes but If anyone is interested it's pretty simple. The output pin of the Arduino simply needs a capacitor coupled to a potientiometer then the wiper capacitively coupled to the to the CTCSS input pin and set the level.. The sine wave resulting doen't look bad at all..
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