Re: Win10 CDM/HT Out of Band and Region Code Mods
Repeater-builder does not have the region code mod for CDMs.?
If you will send it to me I'll post it.
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The CDM Notes page at Reepater-Builder has a couple of 200 MHz CDM
to 222-225 MHz conversion articles.
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You DO NOT need to hexedit the CPS.?
The process described will enable a 42-50 CDM to be programmed to 46-54 MHz.
Then you will run into the design range of the front end and driver-final tuned circuits.?
They will need to be changed to go much higher.
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I personally do not have any hands-on experience with low band CDMs but the
people I've talked to say that you won't get much over 52 MHz.
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Mike WA6ILQ
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Re: Motorola R2600 VGA Output
Ramesh? ??
the V196WL is plug and go??
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Re: Running a Repeater on a FM Broadcast Tower
I've worked at several "high power" sites in the past. I would suggest that you bring a wattmeter and dummy load to the site. Connect the wattmeter with a dummy load to the antenna feedline and you may be amazed at how much power can come down the coax. This power may not cause interference but might cause damage to your equipment.
73, Joe, K1ike
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On 3/13/2025 11:17 AM, Kevin Berlen via groups.io wrote: I had to install a FM trap on the repeater feedline to reduce the amount of RF getting into the system from the FM stations. We have about 250ft vertical separation between the broadcast array and the repeater antenna.
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Re: Reality check on capabilities of GRMS repeater
Very true.. I once had a repeater site that was free and had a PBX phone line available but the noise was horrible. The receiver on the bench was hearing 0.2 microvolts. At the site hooked to the Hustler G7 antenna, the effective sensitivity was over five microvolts! Needless to say the range kind of sucked.. ironically the noise was gone at 220 and the control receiver which was on a quarter wave ground plane had better coverage than the 2 m input.. Spectrum analyzer test confirmed it Plans were made to move the repeater to an FM tower about 3 mi north.. It involved myself and K5PFE climbing the tower on a hot Sunday at August afternoon and replacing the DB224C elements with 150 MHz A elements. This was to allow the FM station RPU receivers at 161 megahertz and the 2 m repeater to share the same antenna.. which it did beautifully. The coverage got to the point to where handhelds could get in where 25 watt mobiles were noisy before.?
All that was lost in a fire at the transmitter site in January of 1989... Luckily the RC850 was not at the site, the backup repeater was in use at the time. Unfortunately the duplexers had been borrowed from a friend of mine, and I had to give him my WP-641s as a replacement.?
Ironically 30 years later I bought the duplexers back from him and they have been back on the air on my 146.94 repeater at a LPTV tower site at 475ft with a DB228 since 2014
Chris WB5ITT?
Putting a bow on the final installation by performing a sensitivity test with antenna vs a load and measuring any desense is very important. It doesn’t matter how well the repeater system works on a bench, you need the equipment and knowledge on how to perform final testing as duplexers can detune during shipment. Otherwise the installed repeater can be operating at many dB below what you think or saw on a test bench. If you don’t have access to a service monitor it can get very expensive hiring someone to perform testing and touch up tuning on site.
“All the rest of the tasks of building a repeater out of mobiles still exist: Duplexer tuning, Radio programming, Radio interconnect cabling, etc. and those are the more complicated tasks.”
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Re: Running a Repeater on a FM Broadcast Tower
At 3/13/2025 02:32 PM, you wrote:
Split antennas and a circulator
would have fixed the problem..
Nope: my 440 system already had separate TX & RX antennas vertically
separated 60'.? Circulators on everything.
The source points of the 2A - B mix were numerous joints throughout the
tower.? Painting them over with conductive paint did reduce the mix
levels to below most RX noise floors for a couple of months, but would
return thereafter.
Bob NO6B
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Re: Running a Repeater on a FM Broadcast Tower
At 3/13/2025 01:25 PM, you wrote:
On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 12:39
PM, Jim Barbour wrote:
- -->Look for another FM station 5 MHz away (88.7 or 98.7)...if
there's
- none within 15-20 miles, you're probably ok...
Oh Lord....??? many, many years ago a new ham
repeater was coordinated on
147.21 at a local MAJOR site.? Nobody knew that there was a paging
system
on 152.21...? and that particular system was not very active... But
when both
were on the air simultaneously the mix trashed EVERY UHF repeater.
(well,
the 470-476? and 506-512 systems were not affected)
?
The public safety people were NOT happy.?? Emphasis on the
NOT.?
Neither were the various commercial UHF repeater owners.?
There was no easy solution.? The final fix was that the ham system
ended up
running "upside down" (147.21 in, 147.81 out) for the next
30-35 years (until
the 152.21 paging system shut down).
Timing was different from how you state Mike: the 2 meter system was
originally on 147.81, then got flipped to 147.21, perhaps to align with
the area bandplan.? I think the paging TX came sometime later,
because the 2A - B mix didn't start with the 81/21 flip.? The paging
TX was not a high power TX as it was meant to fill coverage gaps, not to
provide primary coverage.? The problem remained until the 152.21
paging TX was decommissioned.
Bob NO6B
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Re: Running a Repeater on a FM Broadcast Tower
Commercial systems cannot operate on a non-standard split. It's mandated in part 90?
Chris WB5ITT?
On Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 3:35 PM Kevin Berlen via <kevin.berlen= [email protected]> wrote: A site I used to maintain had a Class A FM on 105.5, and a 250W FX on 100.5, with the same programming. It was in an industrial area with about 6 low profile 450mHz business repeaters near by. That caused all sorts of problems. We finally proved to two different land-mobile shops that the FM's were clean, as the problem signals didn't exist until their own repeater TX was added into the mix. Of course they were all using mobile style reject only duplexers. I suggested they coordinate non standard repeater pairs, but not sure if that was a viable option for them or not. Have not heard from any of them in several years.
On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 12:39 PM, Jim Barbour wrote:
-->Look for another FM station 5 MHz away (88.7 or 98.7)...if there's
none within 15-20 miles, you're probably ok...
Oh Lord....??? many, many years ago a new ham repeater was coordinated on
147.21 at a local MAJOR site.? Nobody knew that there was a paging system
on 152.21...? and that particular system was not very active... But when both
were on the air simultaneously the mix trashed EVERY UHF repeater. (well,
the 470-476? and 506-512 systems were not affected)
?
The public safety people were NOT happy. ? Emphasis on the NOT.?
Neither were the various commercial UHF repeater owners.?
There was no easy solution.? The final fix was that the ham system ended up
running "upside down" (147.21 in, 147.81 out) for the next 30-35 years (until
the 152.21 paging system shut down).
?
Mike WA6ILQ
?
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Re: Running a Repeater on a FM Broadcast Tower
Split antennas and a circulator would have fixed the problem.. or change in frequency too?
Chris WB5ITT?
On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 12:39 PM, Jim Barbour wrote:
-->Look for another FM station 5 MHz away (88.7 or 98.7)...if there's
none within 15-20 miles, you're probably ok...
Oh Lord....??? many, many years ago a new ham repeater was coordinated on
147.21 at a local MAJOR site.? Nobody knew that there was a paging system
on 152.21...? and that particular system was not very active... But when both
were on the air simultaneously the mix trashed EVERY UHF repeater. (well,
the 470-476? and 506-512 systems were not affected)
?
The public safety people were NOT happy. ? Emphasis on the NOT.?
Neither were the various commercial UHF repeater owners.?
There was no easy solution.? The final fix was that the ham system ended up
running "upside down" (147.21 in, 147.81 out) for the next 30-35 years (until
the 152.21 paging system shut down).
?
Mike WA6ILQ
?
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Re: Running a Repeater on a FM Broadcast Tower
My old club has two repeaters at a cable company tower. The repeaters are 1VHF and 1UHF. There is a low power local access TV transmitter in there and two radio stations transmitters in there When the radio stations came in there after us one of them caused interference on our UHF repeater. When it was brought to their engineers attention he ordered a notch filter and it was added to the UHF repeater and that took care of it.
Les Keegan? N4LPK?
On Thursday, March 13, 2025 at 10:48:59 AM EDT, steven harvey <sharvey@...> wrote:
Hello Group,
?
I'm in the investigation stage of relocating a repeater to a FM broadcast tower site.??? I've been on several LMR towers and not had any issues but wanted to see if there is any best practices I could learn from on what equipment should be mandatory for being on a FM broadcast tower site.??? I have listed what I have so far.? Any additional equipment please
?
1. The repeater will be on the UHF spectrum of the ham radio side.
2. It will be running a Kenwood NXR-1800K2 repeater with TXRX duplexers with a 100DB isolation between sides.
3.? Height will be between 350 to 400 ft
5. Cable is 1 5/8" hard line that was run but never used and capped off.
4. Antenna will be a commander technologies fiberglass antenna being side mounted on the tower with polyphaser lightening protection attached and grounded.
4a.? Jumpers will be 1/2 hardline between the antenna and 1 5/8" and the same going into the building.
5.? The radio station broadcast on 93.7 a with a ERP of 37,000 Watts and there antenna is at the 550ft mark.
6.? There only two 800Mhz commercial antenna's on the tower and a couple of Wifi provider dishes.?? I'll be above all of that equipment.
?
Thanks!
Steven H.
N8RLW
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Re: Running a Repeater on a FM Broadcast Tower
A site I used to maintain had a Class A FM on 105.5, and a 250W FX on 100.5, with the same programming. It was in an industrial area with about 6 low profile 450mHz business repeaters near by. That caused all sorts of problems. We finally proved to two different land-mobile shops that the FM's were clean, as the problem signals didn't exist until their own repeater TX was added into the mix. Of course they were all using mobile style reject only duplexers. I suggested they coordinate non standard repeater pairs, but not sure if that was a viable option for them or not. Have not heard from any of them in several years.
On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 12:39 PM, Jim Barbour wrote:
-->Look for another FM station 5 MHz away (88.7 or 98.7)...if there's
none within 15-20 miles, you're probably ok...
Oh Lord....??? many, many years ago a new ham repeater was coordinated on
147.21 at a local MAJOR site.? Nobody knew that there was a paging system
on 152.21...? and that particular system was not very active... But when both
were on the air simultaneously the mix trashed EVERY UHF repeater. (well,
the 470-476? and 506-512 systems were not affected)
?
The public safety people were NOT happy. ? Emphasis on the NOT.?
Neither were the various commercial UHF repeater owners.?
There was no easy solution.? The final fix was that the ham system ended up
running "upside down" (147.21 in, 147.81 out) for the next 30-35 years (until
the 152.21 paging system shut down).
?
Mike WA6ILQ
?
|
Re: Running a Repeater on a FM Broadcast Tower
On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 12:39 PM, Jim Barbour wrote:
-->Look for another FM station 5 MHz away (88.7 or 98.7)...if there's
none within 15-20 miles, you're probably ok...
Oh Lord....??? many, many years ago a new ham repeater was coordinated on
147.21 at a local MAJOR site.? Nobody knew that there was a paging system
on 152.21...? and that particular system was not very active... But when both
were on the air simultaneously the mix trashed EVERY UHF repeater. (well,
the 470-476? and 506-512 systems were not affected)
?
The public safety people were NOT happy. ? Emphasis on the NOT.?
Neither were the various commercial UHF repeater owners.?
There was no easy solution.? The final fix was that the ham system ended up
running "upside down" (147.21 in, 147.81 out) for the next 30-35 years (until
the 152.21 paging system shut down).
?
Mike WA6ILQ
?
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Re: Win10 CDM/HT Out of Band and Region Code Mods
Randoloh Koehler KI4EZU VE ki4ezu@...? 360-633-0708 I have used Waris.py with chirp.to program the cmd/ht's out of band
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-------- Original message -------- From: "terry dalpoas via groups.io" <km5uq@...> Date: 3/8/25 2:19 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: [repeater-builder] Win10 CDM/HT Out of Band and Region Code Mods
Has anyone figured out how to do the out-of-band hex edit and the region code edit for the CDM/HT CPS running on Windows 10? If not, I have, and I've only tested it with my HT-1250 lowband that I've got on 6m.
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The hex edit addresses for out-of-band programming in Windows 10 are different than the article on Repeater Builder, but the values you change are the same. I've made notes on what the addresses are.
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I've also got notes on where to find the serialized string for the region code mod. I changed it to the value in the Repeater Builder article. I don't have a radio handy to test this on, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
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I don't know if anyone had shared this info in the group or not. If not, I would be more than happy to share my notes if anyone would like to do some further testing and possibly add to the website if all is good.
?
Again, I've only tested this with my lowband HT-1250 on 6m, and everything worked fine; however, this would be at your own risk.
?
73,
Terry KM5UQ
--
Randolph C Koehler
KI4EZU AE VE?
KI4EZU {at} YAHOO {dot} COM
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Re: Running a Repeater on a FM Broadcast Tower
-->Look for another FM station 5 MHz away (88.7 or 98.7)...if there's none within 15-20 miles, you're probably ok...
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On 3/13/2025 10:48 AM, steven harvey via groups.io wrote: Hello Group,
I'm in the investigation stage of relocating a repeater to a FM broadcast tower site.??? I've been on several LMR towers and not had any issues but wanted to see if there is any best practices I could learn from on what equipment should be mandatory for being on a FM broadcast tower site.??? I have listed what I have so far.? Any additional equipment please
1. The repeater will be on the UHF spectrum of the ham radio side.
2. It will be running a Kenwood NXR-1800K2 repeater with TXRX duplexers with a 100DB isolation between sides.
3.? Height will be between 350 to 400 ft
5. Cable is 1 5/8" hard line that was run but never used and capped off.
4. Antenna will be a commander technologies fiberglass antenna being side mounted on the tower with polyphaser lightening protection attached and grounded.
4a.? Jumpers will be 1/2 hardline between the antenna and 1 5/8" and the same going into the building.
5.? The radio station broadcast on 93.7 a with a ERP of 37,000 Watts and there antenna is at the 550ft mark.
6.? There only two 800Mhz commercial antenna's on the tower and a couple of Wifi provider dishes.?? I'll be above all of that equipment.
Thanks!
Steven H.
N8RLW
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Re: Running a Repeater on a FM Broadcast Tower
Sorry, Didn’t catch it was UHF. We run a Commscope DB-420 on our D-Star repeater on 444 mHz. It has 16 bays and a 9.1 dbd gain figure. It is cut for 450-470, but has plenty of sweep to reach into the amateur 70cm band. Bad news it’s a $3000 antenna. We bought ours for about 10% of that. A short time ago I saw one still in the carton for $800 listed online, but it didn’t stay listed for long …
You might want to consider an antenna that’s more commercial grade, like a Comprod, Sinclair, or Commscope exposed dipole array in the 2 or 4 bay variety.
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Re: Running a Repeater on a FM Broadcast Tower
You might want to consider an antenna that’s more commercial grade, like a Comprod, Sinclair, or Commscope exposed dipole array in the 2 or 4 bay variety.
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Re: Motorola speaker identification
Looks like one use for the NSN6048A was for a convertacom installation.?
Can anyone tell me what radio NSN6048A was used with? Thanks Glenn WB4UIV -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Glenn Little ARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417 Amateur Callsign: WB4UIV wb4uiv@... AMSAT LM 2178 QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI, FRA, NRA-LM ARRL TAPR "It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class of the Amateur that holds the license"
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Re: Motorola speaker identification
It a 3 ohm motorcycle spkr.? Do a YouTube search for a video.
Can anyone tell me what radio NSN6048A was used with? Thanks Glenn WB4UIV -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Glenn Little ARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417 Amateur Callsign: WB4UIV wb4uiv@... AMSAT LM 2178 QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI, FRA, NRA-LM ARRL TAPR "It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class of the Amateur that holds the license"
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Motorola speaker identification
Can anyone tell me what radio NSN6048A was used with?
Thanks
Glenn
WB4UIV
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Little ARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417
Amateur Callsign: WB4UIV wb4uiv@... AMSAT LM 2178
QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI, FRA, NRA-LM ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"
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Re: Running a Repeater on a FM Broadcast Tower
Depending on your preferences… “best practices” are always open to interpretation. While there may not be any other 400MHz UHF gear on the tower today, that might not be the case tomorrow. I get mildly amused when something new shows up on a tower and other repeater owners suddenly have an issue they have to mitigate, that might take them months. Is an IM panel and rx filtering really overkill? ? Sometimes a simple stub may be placed to dump the broadcast (this has been covered recently on the list.) ? I run isolators on all my gear, which of course has a low pass on the tx side, and on the rx I almost always have a band pass. ? Matt AL0R ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of steven harvey via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2025 09:49
To: [email protected]
Subject: [repeater-builder] Running a Repeater on a FM Broadcast Tower ? I'm in the investigation stage of relocating a repeater to a FM broadcast tower site.??? I've been on several LMR towers and not had any issues but wanted to see if there is any best practices I could learn from on what equipment should be mandatory for being on a FM broadcast tower site.??? I have listed what I have so far.? Any additional equipment please 1. The repeater will be on the UHF spectrum of the ham radio side. 2. It will be running a Kenwood NXR-1800K2 repeater with TXRX duplexers with a 100DB isolation between sides. 3.? Height will be between 350 to 400 ft 5. Cable is 1 5/8" hard line that was run but never used and capped off. 4. Antenna will be a commander technologies fiberglass antenna being side mounted on the tower with polyphaser lightening protection attached and grounded. 4a.? Jumpers will be 1/2 hardline between the antenna and 1 5/8" and the same going into the building. 5.? The radio station broadcast on 93.7 a with a ERP of 37,000 Watts and there antenna is at the 550ft mark. 6.? There only two 800Mhz commercial antenna's on the tower and a couple of Wifi provider dishes.?? I'll be above all of that equipment.
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Re: Running a Repeater on a FM Broadcast Tower
You might consider adding an isolator to your uHF system between the TX output and cavities. Chances are you are not going to encounter any issues. I have had numerous 2m and 440 repeaters on broadcast towers for several years without any issue. Recently I did run into a problem with a 2-meter machine, but the ERP of the radio stations was much higher. We were dealing with three FM's combined onto a single antenna with a combined ERP close to 100kW. I had to install a FM trap on the repeater feedline to reduce the amount of RF getting into the system from the FM stations. We have about 250ft vertical separation between the broadcast array and the repeater antenna.
Sounds like you are going to have a great system!
73,
Kevin, K9HX
On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 10:50?AM Chris Boone WB5ITT via <setxtelecom= [email protected]> wrote: No problem....Ive have repeaters on broadcast towers for decades...VHF, UHF ...TV and FM... you're good
Hello Group,
?
I'm in the investigation stage of relocating a repeater to a FM broadcast tower site.??? I've been on several LMR towers and not had any issues but wanted to see if there is any best practices I could learn from on what equipment should be mandatory for being on a FM broadcast tower site.??? I have listed what I have so far.? Any additional equipment please
?
1. The repeater will be on the UHF spectrum of the ham radio side.
2. It will be running a Kenwood NXR-1800K2 repeater with TXRX duplexers with a 100DB isolation between sides.
3.? Height will be between 350 to 400 ft
5. Cable is 1 5/8" hard line that was run but never used and capped off.
4. Antenna will be a commander technologies fiberglass antenna being side mounted on the tower with polyphaser lightening protection attached and grounded.
4a.? Jumpers will be 1/2 hardline between the antenna and 1 5/8" and the same going into the building.
5.? The radio station broadcast on 93.7 a with a ERP of 37,000 Watts and there antenna is at the 550ft mark.
6.? There only two 800Mhz commercial antenna's on the tower and a couple of Wifi provider dishes.?? I'll be above all of that equipment.
?
Thanks!
Steven H.
N8RLW
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Chris Boone WB5ITT