Dan,
I knew a Motorola (or Harris) solution was probably going to be the result
of my query. L.M.A.O. I've heard your "sales pitch" before, having sat
through similar sales and engineering briefings, hearing the unbelievably
incredible benefits of very high end radios being pitched to government
agencies, who are preparing to part with $1M+ of tax payer money.
As I already said, like many on this list, I maintain a small fleet of
Kenwood TKR-750v2/850v2 repeaters. They just sit there and work, 24/7.
Every single day they stay keyed for hours, sometimes even 24 hours or
longer, CONTINUOUSLY. No power derating, no burned up 13.8V power
supplies, no unsoldered PA transistors. No detectable desense. Their
receivers can hear a gnat sneeze. They just work. Many have been installed
for a decade now. I'm really not sure how anything could "vastly
outperform" this level of capability? Well, bluntly put, it can't.
So, that's my polite answer to your "sales pitch style" skepticism about
Kenwood TKR reliability. I feel sure you must know this already. I also
feel sure you realize that even the BatWings have bad days, bringing parts
of the fancy, highly redundant systems down. I've watched Mot rep camped
out at sites, complete with Holy Water, sometimes for a week or longer,
trying to perform an exorcism on a major system problem. I've seen
portions of systems down for weeks or longer, "waiting on parts." Don't
get me started on problems during and after Hurricanes, when vendors and
resources are stretched way too thin.
Meanwhile, my little, inexpensive, maintainable, Kenwood repeaters,
stuffed in small tower-mounted cabinets, just keep on working. and
working. and working. and working. (do I really need to go on?)
And, they're cheap enough that I've got several complete spare systems
"sitting on the shelf."
BTW, I have hauled heavy 3' x 19" sub-chassis racks up and down tall TV
towers a few times in my life. That's not really my idea of fun.
Anyhow, this horse has been beat to death.
73, David KB4FXC
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On Sun, 24 Jan 2021, Dan Woodie wrote:
David,
It depends on the capabilities you require (such as digital modes), power
level, source power (AC or DC), external interface requirements, and your
budget.
Of current production repeaters I would say the "Excellent" repeaters would
be the Motorola GTR8000 for P25/Analog and SLR5700/SLR8000 for DMR/Analog.
I do not have a lot of experience with other high-tier current-production
models at this time but I am sure some others such as the Harris Mastr 5
and others may be reasonable - I just haven't had an opportunity to
evaluate them. I do not have the current pricing on these but the SLR8000
and GTR8000 are likely $10K+ if purchased new.
The benefit of high-tier repeaters is that they are made with high-quality
components and have a very long service life. As such a used repeater such
as a Motorola Quantar, with many years of service life left and an
abundance of parts availability, are available at very affordable prices of
$100-1500 depending on configuration and band - and will vastly outperform
and outlast many lesser repeaters even if they are new.
Not every application calls for an "excellent" repeater and for these
applications where lower power, fewer interface options, and sometimes less
reliability are acceptable, the Kenwood, Spectra Engineering, or
Daniels/Codan repeaters are good options that will better fit many
budgets. I would avoid Yaesu, Bridgecom, Vertex, Tait, and Icom repeaters
due to the low performance and poor quality I have observed and measured
though even these can work acceptably at some sites in some applications.
My intent of posting in this thread was not to talk down products or
criticise the choices of group members and I apologize if it was
interpreted as such by some. My hope was to have technical conversation
about the properties of different grades of repeaters and the benefit of a
high quality purpose-built repeater over a pair of mobiles or a lower-grade
repeater which is often just 2 mobiles in a housing - the original topic of
this thread.
Thanks,
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 11:47 AM David McGough <kb4fxc@...> wrote:
Dan,
I do have an unanswered question: What repeaters are available for NEW
purchase, which you consider "excellent" conventional FM repeaters?? What
is the typical price point, if I wanted to buy one new, right now??
73, David KB4FXC
On Sun, 24 Jan 2021, Dan Woodie wrote:
David,
Just out of curiosity what other repeaters have you had experience with?
If the Kenwood is all you have worked with - or the only relatively
modern
repeater you have worked with - then you may not be seeing the full
picture
here. Spend some time with the repeaters I named and I suspect your view
may change a bit. Again, I never said the Kenwood repeaters are
inferior -
they are good for their price point - but not excellent for the reasons I
stated. They serve the needs of many satisfactorily but would not be my
first choice by any means these days with what is available on the used
and
new markets. A used Quantar will blow those out of the water when it
comes
to reliability, flexibility, interface options, wildcard scripting, etc -
but it depends on your needs. The Kenwood repeaters also do not have a
built-in Wireline interface so that also limits them in some
applications.
I would buy a Kenwood any day over a Bridgecom, Yaesu, Icom, or Tait
repeater. Another example of a very good repeater - but one with some of
the same limitations I mentioned with Kenwood - is the Spectra
Engineering
MX800. They are bulletproof and perform very well - the 220 MHz ones
probably make the best 220 ham repeaters available - but they have
nowhere
near the capabilities of the repeaters I mentioned. This doesn't make
them
bad - just not "excellent".
Thanks,
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
