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Hi guys. I’ve been wanting to go in to 2ft narrow Gauge in 7mm for a while now but I can’t seem to find anyway. On the slaters website they have some but when reading it says that the Gauge is 3/4 of an inch. Which I don’t believe is right. If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great!! And any other info for starting up would be great. Many thanks Thomas?
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Hi Thomas. Welcome aboard! ?Basically we aim to model in 7mm scale with a near correct track gauge. ?So 14mm is exactly 2’ gauge but gets used for everything from Penrhyn 1’10 3/4” through to 2’0”. ?Not Talyllyn at 2’3”.?
Personally I use everything and anything available for 7mm Narrow gauge and build it to?run on 14mm gauge track. Good resources from the 7mm Narrow gauge Association and a good list of suppliers on their website for members.?
Remember it is very much a model builders option. Not really any RTR stuff nor RTR chasses but we source bits and pieces from all over the place. Some things are quite easy; my Lyd model is from the ancient Gibson/Link kit built pretty much as intended but with the wheels set to the narrower back to back. As it’s outside framed a few washers on the axle is all that’s required. But if you want to build a kit and stick it on an RTR chassis, then stick with mainstream O-16.5.?
Good luck. It’s fun in here.?
Paul?
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Hi Paul. Thanks very much. I am much a build and like things to be perfect. I plan to scratch build a few of my favourite 2ft Gauge locos. I can build track quite easily and the locos its just the wheels I will struggle with. Is regauging o16 wheels easy?
Regards Thomas
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Hi Thomas,
Welcome to the O14 .io group. On our front page at bottom left you'll see a Wiki link which is a useful starter.
I'm not sure what you're looking at on the Slater's Page that says 3/4" gauge, but I know they have a copy of our standards because I've sent it to them - twice - in order to correct a production problem they had.
Actually, as Paul H?hinted the 14mm is rather flexible: it may not be right (whatever that means!) to model Talallyn's track in 14mm gauge?at 1:43 scale, but the principle is to use wheel profile and track dimensions
that are appropriate. Since the O14 standards are based on EM, by extension you could modify them for quite a range of gauges. After all, 1:43.5, 1:45, 1:48 and '7mm/ft' are only approximations of each other.
Where are you based?
David Hughes,
Wiltshire UK
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Hi guys. I’ve been wanting to go in to 2ft narrow Gauge in 7mm for a while now but I can’t seem to find anyway. On the slaters website they have some but when reading it says that the Gauge is 3/4 of an inch. Which I don’t believe is right. If anyone could
point me in the right direction that would be great!! And any other info for starting up would be great. Many thanks Thomas?
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Hi Thomas,
?
If the wheels are a push fit on the axle (like Alan Gibson curly spoke wagon? and coach wheels) then re-gauging them to 14mm is easy.? I think the PECO wheels
are moulded to 16.5mm gauge so they can’t be re-gauged.? Markits do 14mm gauge axles for the Romford range of loco wheels and I have built one of the Branchlines Eagle chassis to suit 14mm gauge.? I will try to post something on it into the wiki when I get
the chance.
?
If you are interested in industrial locos then Mark Clarke of Locos n stuff does a number of very easy to construct 3d printed chassis to suit a variety of
3d printed bodies.
?
Cheers,
?
Robin
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Thomas H
Sent: 20 April 2018 8:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [o14] Starting up
?
Hi Paul. Thanks very much. I am much a build and like things to be perfect. I plan to scratch build a few of my favourite 2ft Gauge locos. I can build track quite easily and the locos its just the wheels I will struggle with. Is regauging
o16 wheels easy?
Regards Thomas
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Thomas,
Slater’s can supply the correct 14mm gauge axles with any of there wheels
that have bolt together 1/8” axles, I am not sure if they do 14mm gauge axles
for there rollingstock range of wheels.
If you are looking for a source of driving axles with extended journals you
can buy the complete driving wheelsets for the Bachmann On30 2-8-0
loco?? <>
to make these axles to suit 14mm gauge you need to machine about 1mm. off
each side on the shoulder to allow the wheels to slide in the bit more, also any
of the Slater’s rollingstock wheels are a nice press fit on these axles. The
2-8-0 wheels are 10 spoke 19.05mm dia. which is only a fraction less then 2’9”
in 7mm. scale which makes these wheels and axles near perfect for building a
model of Lyn.
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
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Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2018 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: [o14] Starting up
?
Hi
Paul. Thanks very much. I am much a build and like things to be perfect. I plan
to scratch build a few of my favourite 2ft Gauge locos. I can build track quite
easily and the locos its just the wheels I will struggle with. Is regauging o16
wheels easy? Regards Thomas
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Quite agree with all! ?I use Gibson wheels pushed in for stock and either Gibson or Romford (Markits) for locos with the 14mm axles.?
Currently started on the Dorset kits Welshpool loco using the kit wheels. But running on 17.5mm gauge of course!!?
Paul
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Hi thanks for the advice. I’m based in Cambridgeshire. I can’t understand how You can adapt em to 14mm but I’ll look forward to finding out.?
Regards Thomas?
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Brilliant guys you’ve all been a great help. Looking forward to start aloco soon
Regardd Thomas
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I know some modellers use fancy wheel presses, but for rolling stock I use Gibson wheels and just carefully twist and push them in on the axes to a back to back of 12.5mm measured using a digital vernier .?
Same for press fit loco wheels and markits sell 14 gauge axles with the back to back of 12.5. You cannot use 00 gauge plastic wheels moulded onto the axles though.?
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I'm not sure what you're looking at on the Slater's Page that says 3/4" gauge, but I know they have a copy of our standards because I've sent it to them - twice - in order to correct a production problem they had. The Slater’s ?-inch gauge products are 1:32 scale, not 1:43.5. _______________ Kevin Crosado De Selby Research
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Thomas,
If you can make it to Burton on Trent Town Hall?on 9th June, several of us will be present at an O14 table in the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association's Convention.
David H
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Hi thanks for the advice. I’m based in Cambridgeshire. I can’t understand how You can adapt em to 14mm but I’ll look forward to finding out.?
Regards Thomas?
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Re wagon wheels, Dundas Models now have their 8 & 9mm dia solid wheels on '00n3' 12mm gauge axles which open out to 14mm gauge. Ideal for small wagons & KB Scale substitutes. Cost $29.60 for 10 axles.
Dava?
Thomas,
If you can make it to Burton on Trent Town Hall?on 9th June, several of us will be present at an O14 table in the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association's Convention.
David H
Hi thanks for the advice. I’m based in Cambridgeshire. I can’t understand how You can adapt em to 14mm but I’ll look forward to finding out.?
Regards Thomas?
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You can get a good range of wheel types from RB Model
<>
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
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Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2018 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [o14] Starting up
?
Re wagon wheels, Dundas Models now have their 8 & 9mm dia solid wheels
on '00n3' 12mm gauge axles which open out to 14mm gauge. Ideal for small wagons
& KB Scale substitutes. Cost $29.60 for 10 axles.
?
Dava
?
Thomas,
If you can make it to Burton on
Trent Town Hall on 9th June, several of us will be present at an O14 table in
the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association's Convention.
David H
Hi thanks for the advice. I’m based in Cambridgeshire. I can’t understand
how You can adapt em to 14mm but I’ll look forward to finding out.
Regards
Thomas?
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Hi Thomas,
?
With regard to the comment about ‘EM’, I think what was meant was the application of EM wheel and track standards to 14mm gauge by reducing the gauge by 4.2mm
from 18.2mm to 14mm, rather than use traditional ‘OO’ standards.? Nowadays I don’t think there is that much difference as the Romford wheel profile is now much finer that it used to be an Gibson style wheels have always been to a suitable profile.
?
The 7mm NGA sales usually have the Gibson ‘curly spoke’ wagon/coach wheels and they have recently been stocking a variety of Kadee wheels – BUT I don’t think
these can easily be re-gauged as I think the axles are stepped with the wheels pushed against the stepped shoulder.
?
It would be well worth the trip if you could get across to Burton on 9th June as there will be a number of traders at the Convention including 7mm
NGA Sales, EDM Models and Loco’s n Stuff where you can chat and have a good look at the stuff before even thinking about buying!
?
Cheers,
?
Robin
?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Thomas H
Sent: 20 April 2018 10:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [o14] Starting up
?
Hi thanks for the advice. I’m based in Cambridgeshire. I can’t understand how You can adapt em to 14mm but I’ll look forward to finding out.?
Regards Thomas?
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To clarify the background behind the O14 standards - they are derived from data published by the British Railway Modelling Standards Bureau (BRMSB) in 1950.
At the time, there were two standards for 18mm gauge in 4mm scale - EM and EMF. I used the dimensions for the then EM standard, the reason being, that my friend Alan Gibson had chosen the 1950 EM wheel profile for his ‘finescale OO’ range of wheels for use with 0.16.5mm gauge. At the time, I used to make wheel centre injection tooling for Alan and, once he started putting together a range of wheels for TT scale, I realised I could create a range of my own, for O14. To allow for ‘protothree’ (14.2mm gauge), as well as the standard 12mm, the axles were thus suitable for O14 - and the wheel tyres were the BRMSB ‘EM’ profile noted above. I used to go ‘halves’ with Alan on runs of the 3mm scale axles. To keep the price within reason, this often amounted to bags of 20,000 axles being delivered.
With these wheels and axles, it was obvious that a practical set of standards were to be had, by modifying the BRMSB EM dimensions by extracting 4mm from the gauge, back to back and other relevant measures - though those for flangeways of course, remained the same. First published in NG&IRM REVIEW in June 1993, some small corrections were made in the light of practical experience in 1994.?
Fortuitously, the BRMSB EM profile (in 7mm scale) compares well with the profiles published in Vignes Atlas, for the Festiniog Railway, being a little larger than that for wagons/coaches, but a little smaller than locomotives. With regards the wheels fitted to Hudson skips etc., they are fractionally oversize in all respects apart from tread width, where they are a little narrow. The alternative though, would have meant custom machined wheel tyres, an expense I could not afford. By ‘piggy-backing’ on an established (and emerging) range of wheels and axles, costs were kept down and the commercial success of O14 was established.
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Hi Thomas, ? With regard to the comment about ‘EM’, I think what was meant was the application of EM wheel and track standards to 14mm gauge by reducing the gauge by 4.2mm from 18.2mm to 14mm, rather than use traditional ‘OO’ standards.? Nowadays I don’t think there is that much difference as the Romford wheel profile is now much finer that it used to be an Gibson style wheels have always been to a suitable profile. ? The 7mm NGA sales usually have the Gibson ‘curly spoke’ wagon/coach wheels and they have recently been stocking a variety of Kadee wheels – BUT I don’t think these can easily be re-gauged as I think the axles are stepped with the wheels pushed against the stepped shoulder. ? It would be well worth the trip if you could get across to Burton on 9th?June as there will be a number of traders at the Convention including 7mm NGA Sales, EDM Models and Loco’s n Stuff where you can chat and have a good look at the stuff before even thinking about buying! ? Cheers, ? Robin ? ? Hi thanks for the advice. I’m based in Cambridgeshire. I can’t understand how You can adapt em to 14mm but I’ll look forward to finding out.?
Regards Thomas?
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Thanks very much Roy,
?
While I think I knew most of this I didn’t feel qualified to write it down as I was bound to get it wrong.?
?
I think I still have a pack of your original curly spoke wheels in the yellow card and plastic bubble packaging.? I found them the other day but for nostalgic
reasons I am reluctant to open them. ?
?
Regards,
?
Robin
?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Roy C Link
Sent: 21 April 2018 11:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [o14] Starting up
?
To clarify the background behind the O14 standards - they are derived from data published by the British Railway Modelling Standards Bureau (BRMSB) in 1950.
At the time, there were two standards for 18mm gauge in 4mm scale - EM and EMF. I used the dimensions for the then EM standard, the reason being, that my friend Alan Gibson had chosen the 1950 EM wheel profile for his ‘finescale OO’ range
of wheels for use with 0.16.5mm gauge. At the time, I used to make wheel centre injection tooling for Alan and, once he started putting together a range of wheels for TT scale, I realised I could create a range of my own, for O14. To allow for ‘protothree’
(14.2mm gauge), as well as the standard 12mm, the axles were thus suitable for O14 - and the wheel tyres were the BRMSB ‘EM’ profile noted above. I used to go ‘halves’ with Alan on runs of the 3mm scale axles. To keep the price within reason, this often amounted
to bags of 20,000 axles being delivered.
With these wheels and axles, it was obvious that a practical set of standards were to be had, by modifying the BRMSB EM dimensions by extracting 4mm from the gauge, back to back and other relevant measures - though those for flangeways
of course, remained the same. First published in NG&IRM REVIEW in June 1993, some small corrections were made in the light of practical experience in 1994.?
Fortuitously, the BRMSB EM profile (in 7mm scale) compares well with the profiles published in Vignes Atlas, for the Festiniog Railway, being a little larger than that for wagons/coaches, but a little smaller than locomotives. With regards
the wheels fitted to Hudson skips etc., they are fractionally oversize in all respects apart from tread width, where they are a little narrow. The alternative though, would have meant custom machined wheel tyres, an expense I could not afford. By ‘piggy-backing’
on an established (and emerging) range of wheels and axles, costs were kept down and the commercial success of O14 was established.
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Robin,
Yes, these were the very first products I sold, albeit initially for 16.5mm gauge, back in the early 1980s. Alan Gibson approached me with regards die-sinking wheel tools for him, and subsequently sent me blank centre buttons for his wheel moulding bolsters for pantographing. They were for new 4mm scale wheels in 12, 10.5 and 9mm diameters, so I machined three extra buttons - with 7mm scale NG ‘curly spokes’ which Alan kindly moulded for me and supplied them with blackened steel tyres, ready mounted on pin-point axles. He also sold me the blister packs and top-hat brass bearings. Header cards were printed locally and away I went. Well worth keeping ‘as is’ - a piece of NG modelling history . . .
Roy
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Thanks very much Roy, ? While I think I knew most of this I didn’t feel qualified to write it down as I was bound to get it wrong.? ? I think I still have a pack of your original curly spoke wheels in the yellow card and plastic bubble packaging.? I found them the other day but for nostalgic reasons I am reluctant to open them. ? ? Regards, ? Robin ? ? To clarify the background behind the O14 standards - they are derived from data published by the British Railway Modelling Standards Bureau (BRMSB) in 1950. At the time, there were two standards for 18mm gauge in 4mm scale - EM and EMF. I used the dimensions for the then EM standard, the reason being, that my friend Alan Gibson had chosen the 1950 EM wheel profile for his ‘finescale OO’ range of wheels for use with 0.16.5mm gauge. At the time, I used to make wheel centre injection tooling for Alan and, once he started putting together a range of wheels for TT scale, I realised I could create a range of my own, for O14. To allow for ‘protothree’ (14.2mm gauge), as well as the standard 12mm, the axles were thus suitable for O14 - and the wheel tyres were the BRMSB ‘EM’ profile noted above. I used to go ‘halves’ with Alan on runs of the 3mm scale axles. To keep the price within reason, this often amounted to bags of 20,000 axles being delivered. With these wheels and axles, it was obvious that a practical set of standards were to be had, by modifying the BRMSB EM dimensions by extracting 4mm from the gauge, back to back and other relevant measures - though those for flangeways of course, remained the same. First published in NG&IRM REVIEW in June 1993, some small corrections were made in the light of practical experience in 1994.? Fortuitously, the BRMSB EM profile (in 7mm scale) compares well with the profiles published in Vignes Atlas, for the Festiniog Railway, being a little larger than that for wagons/coaches, but a little smaller than locomotives. With regards the wheels fitted to Hudson skips etc., they are fractionally oversize in all respects apart from tread width, where they are a little narrow. The alternative though, would have meant custom machined wheel tyres, an expense I could not afford. By ‘piggy-backing’ on an established (and emerging) range of wheels and axles, costs were kept down and the commercial success of O14 was established.
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Hi guys.?You’ve all been a great help. I’ll try and make my way to exhibition in June and have a talk to you guys there. I apologise for not responding to all of you but I’ll go though all of it to see what I cane up with. Hopefully getting some drawings tomorrow of a loco I want to build. Once I have them I’ll get started.
Many thanks
thomas?
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Roy,
?
Yes those wheels were a godsend and you introduced them just as I was giving up with my struggle with Stephen Poole plastic curly spoke wheels.? I think I still
have some of the early Wrightlines Tal-y-Llyn Railway slate wagons with solid Jackson wheels as I can’t get the axles out without ruining them.? I used to get away with running them as a rake on Dyffryn as they went straight through the station without stopping.?
You and Alan must have sold a fair few to Wrightlines over the years!
?
I am a bit of a squirrel as I still have the original boxes for your Bagnall, Motor Rail and Hudswell locos (and I might even finish them soon).
?
Regards,
?
Robin
?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Roy C Link
Sent: 21 April 2018 12:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [o14] Starting up
?
Robin,
Yes, these were the very first products I sold, albeit initially for 16.5mm gauge, back in the early 1980s. Alan Gibson approached me with regards die-sinking wheel tools for him, and subsequently sent me blank centre buttons for his wheel
moulding bolsters for pantographing. They were for new 4mm scale wheels in 12, 10.5 and 9mm diameters, so I machined three extra buttons - with 7mm scale NG ‘curly spokes’ which Alan kindly moulded for me and supplied them with blackened steel tyres, ready
mounted on pin-point axles. He also sold me the blister packs and top-hat brass bearings. Header cards were printed locally and away I went. Well worth keeping ‘as is’ - a piece of NG modelling history . . .
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Paul Holmes
David Hughes
Robin Edwards