|
I was reading a similarly titled pamphlet over the weekend and feel that we could really do with something similar with a finescale focus - and open to all via our wiki.
The aforementioned pamphlet seems to assume the reader will be starting railway modelling in 7mm NG, whereas my experience is many are existing modellers and want to model NG properly.?
I'm thinking we could have sections covering approaches to modelling different types of track, couplings, wheels, etc and specific prototypes. Perhaps a para or two on each aspect with links and/or dedicated pages for more in depth material. I think we should focus on NG specific things rather than general modelling stuff such as DCC and baseboard joints. However, Paul's superb accomplishments with sound and smoke do deserve a section.
I welcome your thoughts.
John
|
John,
I think we've been having similar thoughts while reading the same pamphlet!
I have no particular skills to offer to the wiki, but here are some of the things that have?worried me (still do!) and might usefully?be addressed:
- building?turnouts or other complex track formations;
- wheel profiling;
- outside frames and
- running gear/motions.
'Getting started' in the context of these issues has, as you know,?meant leaning heavily on other people's skills and generosity, and I have been very blessed in this respect. I have also been fortunate in finding at least one loco kit?which was within my build
skills because it is a tram engine so I could hide much?behind its skirts. I know the running gear issue is not peculiar to NG but I think?it has a lot to do with a 'finescale' frame of mind. As we have found at Burton, many people come to finescale NG having
experience of EM/P4/S4 et al, but for some like me O14 is our first toe-in-the-water.
Food for thought for the O14 table at the 7mmNGA Convention, perhaps?
Just my two-penn'orth,
David H
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I was reading a similarly titled pamphlet over the weekend and feel that we could really do with something similar with a finescale focus - and open to all via our wiki.
The aforementioned pamphlet seems to assume the reader will be starting railway modelling in 7mm NG, whereas my experience is many are existing modellers and want to model NG properly.?
I'm thinking we could have sections covering approaches to modelling different types of track, couplings, wheels, etc and specific prototypes. Perhaps a para or two on each aspect with links and/or dedicated pages for more in depth material. I think we should
focus on NG specific things rather than general modelling stuff such as DCC and baseboard joints. However, Paul's superb accomplishments with sound and smoke do deserve a section.
I welcome your thoughts.
John
|
Hello,
I hope I do not cause offence, I too came to 7mm NG because I want to run L&B next to my 7mm O Gauge LSWR Pink and Brown Carriages, before I got to O Gauge I was modelling 4mm EM, I think I still have my handbook from the EM Gauge Society, though I never got a Handbook from the O gauge Guild, I looked at things as being, modelling in a bigger scale is the same as modelling in the smaller scale, I do see the reason for having a handbook, new beginners to the hobby do need help and guidance, after all, we were newbies to the hobby when we started, I will be very interested to see how how this goes, even now I can still learn something new.
Philippa-Kristiana
|
I think this is a really good idea and doing it through the wiki means that it can evolve rather than having to be produced all in one go.? Perhaps we need
to think of an initial structure to provide some sort of ‘sign-post’ to areas and then link in what is already available (e.g. John’s track articles now on the NG&IMR web site plus other articles on alternative track construction).? Contributions on kit construction
or just tips that have been found to be helpful (like I just realised that cutting and filing short lengths of tube is so much easier if the tube is held in a pin vice) could help foster ideas that, whilst may not be unique to 7mm finescale NG, are very relevant?
?
Regards,
?
Robin
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of John C via Groups.Io
Sent: 08 April 2018 9:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [o14] Getting started in 7mm finescale NG
?
I was reading a similarly titled pamphlet over the weekend and feel that we could really do with something similar with a finescale focus - and open to all via our wiki.
The aforementioned pamphlet seems to assume the reader will be starting railway modelling in 7mm NG, whereas my experience is many are existing modellers and want to model NG properly.?
I'm thinking we could have sections covering approaches to modelling different types of track, couplings, wheels, etc and specific prototypes. Perhaps a para or two on each aspect with links and/or dedicated pages for more in depth material. I think we should
focus on NG specific things rather than general modelling stuff such as DCC and baseboard joints. However, Paul's superb accomplishments with sound and smoke do deserve a section.
I welcome your thoughts.
John
|
How much crossover with Roy Links O14 guides from years past?
On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Robin Edwards <robinglos@...> wrote:
I think this is a really good idea and doing it through the wiki means that it can evolve rather than having to be produced all in one go.? Perhaps we need
to think of an initial structure to provide some sort of ‘sign-post’ to areas and then link in what is already available (e.g. John’s track articles now on the NG&IMR web site plus other articles on alternative track construction).? Contributions on kit construction
or just tips that have been found to be helpful (like I just realised that cutting and filing short lengths of tube is so much easier if the tube is held in a pin vice) could help foster ideas that, whilst may not be unique to 7mm finescale NG, are very relevant?
?
Regards,
?
Robin
?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of John C via Groups.Io
Sent: 08 April 2018 9:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [o14] Getting started in 7mm finescale NG
?
I was reading a similarly titled pamphlet over the weekend and feel that we could really do with something similar with a finescale focus - and open to all via our wiki.
The aforementioned pamphlet seems to assume the reader will be starting railway modelling in 7mm NG, whereas my experience is many are existing modellers and want to model NG properly.?
I'm thinking we could have sections covering approaches to modelling different types of track, couplings, wheels, etc and specific prototypes. Perhaps a para or two on each aspect with links and/or dedicated pages for more in depth material. I think we should
focus on NG specific things rather than general modelling stuff such as DCC and baseboard joints. However, Paul's superb accomplishments with sound and smoke do deserve a section.
I welcome your thoughts.
John
|
Bill,
Given that Roy based?the O14 standards on those for?EM, the potential for 'crossover' is huge. After John's initial post I took a look at the Scalefour Society's 'Moving to P4' booklet (available online), which sums up
many of the pros and cons of its own take on finescale. If there were enough of us in O14, many similar solutions would also be available such as stores and workshops.
As John and I have found, our bigger brothers in the Scale7 Group are not 'gaugist'. Two regular S7 demonstrators at UK's Bristol O Gauge Guild trade show are Lynton & Barnstaple modellers. Perhaps we might align with
them rather than 're-invent (or?re-profile) the wheel'?
David H
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
How much crossover with Roy Links O14 guides from years past?
Bill Uffelman
On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Robin Edwards
<robinglos@...> wrote:
I think this is a really good idea and doing it through the wiki means that it can evolve rather than having to be produced all in one go.? Perhaps we need to think of an initial structure to
provide some sort of ‘sign-post’ to areas and then link in what is already available (e.g. John’s track articles now on the NG&IMR web site plus other articles on alternative track construction).? Contributions on kit construction or just tips that have been
found to be helpful (like I just realised that cutting and filing short lengths of tube is so much easier if the tube is held in a pin vice) could help foster ideas that, whilst may not be unique to 7mm finescale NG, are very relevant?
?
Regards,
?
Robin
?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of John C via Groups.Io
Sent: 08 April 2018 9:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [o14] Getting started in 7mm finescale NG
?
I was reading a similarly titled pamphlet over the weekend and feel that we could really do with something similar with a finescale focus - and open to all via our wiki.
The aforementioned pamphlet seems to assume the reader will be starting railway modelling in 7mm NG, whereas my experience is many are existing modellers and want to model NG properly.?
I'm thinking we could have sections covering approaches to modelling different types of track, couplings, wheels, etc and specific prototypes. Perhaps a para or two on each aspect with links and/or dedicated pages for more in depth material. I think we should
focus on NG specific things rather than general modelling stuff such as DCC and baseboard joints. However, Paul's superb accomplishments with sound and smoke do deserve a section.
I welcome your thoughts.
John
|
Gentlemen,
We need to consider what we mean by ‘Finescale’ - a term that owes its existence to the early years of the last century when manufacturers struggled with standards for various scales. In truth, a model is either to scale, or it is not, but we tend to use ‘finescale’ largely to indicate an accuracy in the gauge of the model.
Many model narrow gauge ‘to 7mm scale’ without bothering about the track gauge being 16.5mm. This might be for various reasons, lack of skills, primarily the inability to lay track or build working mechanisms being prime.
There are those that build their models to the correct gauge (or nearly so) and base their locos and stock on prototypes, but set in fictional landscape and maybe, even a fictional railway.
Then there are the modellers following a stricter regime, correct gauge, prototype locos and stock all running on a layout based closely on a prototype location, albeit with adaption to fit the layout room.
Finally, a completely detailed model, down to the last fish bolt and blade of grass, with scale radius curves and actual prototype scenes modelled foot by foot exactly to scale. I would warrant there cannot be many of these . . .
So, where does ‘finescale’ kick in with the above? ?The word itself, in relation to model railways, originally meant something a little closer to the prototype than ‘coarse’ scale and was used with regard to O gauge. As time has passed, it has developed into something less easy to pin down, an implication of better modelling standards - but very difficult to define.
Personally, I would like to see the O14 group develop into a home for those building narrow gauge models in all scales, who strive for evermore realism and authenticity.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Bill, Given that Roy based?the O14 standards on those for?EM, the potential for 'crossover' is huge. After John's initial post I took a look at the Scalefour Society's 'Moving to P4' booklet (available online), which sums up many of the pros and cons of its own take on finescale. If there were enough of us in O14, many similar solutions would also be available such as stores and workshops. As John and I have found, our bigger brothers in the Scale7 Group are not 'gaugist'. Two regular S7 demonstrators at UK's Bristol O Gauge Guild trade show are Lynton & Barnstaple modellers. Perhaps we might align with them rather than 're-invent (or?re-profile) the wheel'? David H
How much crossover with Roy Links O14 guides from years past?
Bill Uffelman
On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Robin Edwards I think this is a really good idea and doing it through the wiki means that it can evolve rather than having to be produced all in one go.? Perhaps we need to think of an initial structure to provide some sort of ‘sign-post’ to areas and then link in what is already available (e.g. John’s track articles now on the NG&IMR web site plus other articles on alternative track construction).? Contributions on kit construction or just tips that have been found to be helpful (like I just realised that cutting and filing short lengths of tube is so much easier if the tube is held in a pin vice) could help foster ideas that, whilst may not be unique to 7mm finescale NG, are very relevant? ? Regards, ? Robin ? ? I was reading a similarly titled pamphlet over the weekend and feel that we could really do with something similar with a finescale focus - and open to all via our wiki.
The aforementioned pamphlet seems to assume the reader will be starting railway modelling in 7mm NG, whereas my experience is many are existing modellers and want to model NG properly.?
I'm thinking we could have sections covering approaches to modelling different types of track, couplings, wheels, etc and specific prototypes. Perhaps a para or two on each aspect with links and/or dedicated pages for more in depth material. I think we should focus on NG specific things rather than general modelling stuff such as DCC and baseboard joints. However, Paul's superb accomplishments with sound and smoke do deserve a section.
I welcome your thoughts.
John
|
I'm glad this has spurred some debate and interest. I suggest several of you make a start and let it develop collaboratively - I'm a bit busy again with work but I'll assist where I can.
John
|
I would like to express my agreement with the comments by Roy Link. I am one of those awful members of this group who use 16.5mm track. I moved to 7mm scale many years ago which left an unused quantity of OO track especially points available. It wasn’t until my involvement with John at L&B World in 2012 at the NEC that I realised the merit of 14mm but by then I was so involved with finescale O Gauge that I now concentrate as Roy suggests on the other aspects. ? A home for those building narrow gauge models in all scales, who strive for evermore realism and authenticity. That’s really inclusive. ? Tony S.
|
Good points well made - I've updated the group descritpion to reflect this.
|
I had a quick flick through the new 7mm NGA Getting Started booklet too as it's for sale on the FfWHR Harbour Station shop. ?8 seems a bit steep so did not buy one!?
Thrilled to find there are three photos of my layout (Dinas 1869), but no mention (I think) that it's 14mm Gauge!! Paul?
|
Paul, ? At ?8 the FR are trying to fleece you. Assuming you are a member, ?6 post free from the 7mm nga web site. ? Frank ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Holmes
Sent: Tuesday, 10 April, 2018 14:39
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [o14] Getting started in 7mm finescale NG? I had a quick flick through the new 7mm NGA Getting Started booklet too as it's for sale on the FfWHR Harbour Station shop. ?8 seems a bit steep so did not buy one!?
Thrilled to find there are three photos of my layout (Dinas 1869), but no mention (I think) that it's 14mm Gauge!! Paul?
|
Cheers Frank. Of course I’m still a member! ?6 is still a bit steep for a thin magazine sized booklet and I wonder how many will sell at that price. Might shift more at ?2.95 I would have thought.?
Paul?
|
Dear All,
I came across this which I ran past John about 5 years ago and may be useful. Edited:
"Finescale is a dual approach to railway modelling. It involves both high fidelity (making the model look realistic) and attention to reliable running.
·??????Finescale track gauge is determined by the prototype and scale ratio,?not?by usage, although ...
·??????in practice, 7mm representation for example of 1'11" to 2' or 600mm gauge prototypes all tend to be rounded to 14mm.
·??????Gauges of 15", 18", 2'3", 750mm etc. are noticeably different!
·???????Even if the prototype didn't have tight enough curves to warrant gauge-widening, the chances are that the layout will have, although on the whole …
·???????transition curves are probably more important for reliability.
·???????If the prototype had super-elevation on the curves then model it, but ...
·???????on the model, wheel flanges play a bigger role in keeping stock on the track than super-elevation and wheel-coning do on the real thing, so also use checkrails.
·???????Scale flangeways are one of the easiest ways to recognize finescale track, but ...
·???????be meticulous with wheel profiles and back-to-back measurements, because …
·???????the relationship between back to back, gauge and flangeways is critical for good runningespecially in pointwork.”
I hope it’s of use in the debate,
David H
|
David Hughes
Philippakristiana Grimsley
Robin Edwards
Paul Holmes