Re: The Stronalacher Saga
On 12/10/2016 00:32, 'Colin Rainsbury'
COLINR@... [O14] wrote:
That said, I am sure
Wrightlines used to do Prince and the?Darjeeling B tank and we
know that EDM will have the L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage,
and I think chivers fines lines used to do a 7mm scale Vale of
Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others don't have kits,
so there is a lot of scratch building to do in that case.?????
EDM also do an etched
kit of the Darjeeling B tank in 7mm.
--
Brian Rumary
England
brian(at)rumary.co.uk
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
Hi David
?
This appears to have?taken on?a
life of its own,?in a private email I have been told that Adrian has done
contract castings for other people and hence the reason why some kits in other
scales are not currently available.
?
I am not saying that Adrian should not make
a living on this basis, far from it, but it just goes to show?how dependant
the whole model railway world has become on say one or two people to produce all
these kits.
?
I don't think any one white metal kit is
going to make anyone rich over night, as I dont expect them to be sold in the
thousands, but more likely they will be sold only in
the?hundreds?over a much longer
period and for that reason,?I can see that what started out as a cottage
industry has become an industry with-in itself.
?
If however Adrian decides to call time on
all his kit production, then it is going to be a very sad day?for anyone
who would like to get in to narrow gauge modelling. I guess this the trouble as
we are all getting older and new technologies are coming along. But
even?they cannot keep up with?the?amount of kit production that
some scales demand, also we should not forget that there are some company's
which have to put bread on the table first of all, as they are currently not
producing anything.
?
Thanks for that about the different
catalogues, lets hope we can find out more in due course. I am sure that as
Adrian does not use computers this has not helped the situation in trying to
work out just how many of the different kits he needs to produce, or keep in
stock. One thing he did tell me,?was that he?was having to keep making
new moulds and he was having difficulty in being able to buy the correct type of
rubber for the moulds and that each mould will only take?twenty
mouldings?or so before it is no good.?
?
There is? a lot more to this than I
suspect many people realise or understand to this process.
?
Regards
?
Colin????????
?
?
??
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 8:26
AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
Hi Colin
Gosh having to dredge the memory
for this - please take what follows as my best recollections but not
necessarily gospel.?
What I am sure about is
that only 7mm narrow gauge models appeared under the Wrightlines 'brand' and,
as far as I know, the last catalogue is marked "2011 Catalogie D Edition 2 and
Price ?1-50",? At sometime there was an update increasing the unit price
from 90p to ?1-00.
I am aware there were
other lists from ABS and I saw one for 0 Gauge detail parts for wagons - I was
looking for some obscure GWR wagon brake gear - and to be honest I am not sure
whether the list I had was from ABS, it could have been the GWR or Historical
Model Rail Societies.
I also remember a
conversation with David Voice (the tramway modeller) in which he said the
Anbrico range (00n3 kits) was with ABS.
I was never aware of a
full ABS list, but now you have started me thinking it would be logical if
there were also Catalogues A, B and C and perhaps E and beyond?
Hope this is of use?
Cheers
David
From: "'Colin Rainsbury'
COLINR@... [O14]" To: O14@...
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October
2016, 20:40
Subject: Re:
[O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
?
Hi David can I ask?does anyone have
any idea of what was in the last wrightline catalogue? I know Adrian
also?had some tramkits and the IOMR railcars?for 00n3?amongst
all?his patterns and I think he has other interesting bits as well, but
he never has time to produce them all.
?
Regards
?
Colin Rainsbury
?
??
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 3:55
PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
Colin
Adrian Swain (Mr
Wrightlines) is not at all well at the moment.? He is unable to do any
casting and his appearance at ExpoNG is doubtful/unlikely.? Could I
respectfully suggest you do not contact him for a while as he is
concentrating on far more important things than model railways?? If he
is at ExpoNG then talk to him by all means - otherwise I would leave it for
two to three months.
As far as
I know Wrightlines has always been Wrightlines.? It was started (35 to
40 years ago?) by Russell Wright (hence the logo a double-bassist with the
Bournemouth Philharmonic, taken over by Kay Butler and when she
retired? Aidrian.? Adrian (the ABS of ABS Castings) always did the
mould-making and castings and things have reverted back to him.?
Sinilarly, other brands (like IKB and BEC) reverted to ABS once the
originators moved on.
Their
non-availability leaves many of us frustrated but all we can really do is to
wish Aidrian well and hope he gets better as soon as possible.
Hope this
helps
David
From: "'Colin Rainsbury'
COLINR@... [O14]"
To:
O14@...
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2016,
13:40
Subject:
Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
You are correct Andrew
?
No sooner than I had posted my reply,
than I looked around the web and found that some of the kits which I though
had been done where in fact figments of my imagination.
?
I will have to have a chat to that nice
man who has all the wrightline moulds to see what can be done and just what
kits he is doing.
?
Just out of interest, but what where
wrightlines called before wrightlines, I am sure they took over another
model manufacture before they started or am I just dreaming that as
well?
?
Colin.???
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016
10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The
Stronalacher Saga
?
That said, I am sure Wrightlines
used to do Prince and the?Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM
will have the L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think chivers
fines lines used to do a 7mm scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I
am sure the others don't have kits, so there is a lot of scratch
building to do in that case.?????
Colin,
Sadly, your memory is playing tricks with you, the only part of that
which is correct is that EDM will be bringing out the L&B 2-6-2!
Wychbury Loco Works brought out the Ffes England loco which is now
sold by Mercian.
The Darj B Class is available through EDM Models, the only other 7mm
scale version I know of was a French manufactured kit, others have
proposed it but not brought it out.
Wrightlines got to the stage of producing patterns and castings for
the VoR tanks but this never got to the stage of being a released
kit.
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
Hi Colin
Gosh having to dredge the memory for this - please take what follows as my best recollections but not necessarily gospel.?
What I am sure about is that only 7mm narrow gauge models appeared under the Wrightlines 'brand' and, as far as I know, the last catalogue is marked "2011 Catalogie D Edition 2 and Price ?1-50",? At sometime there was an update increasing the unit price from 90p to ?1-00.
I am aware there were other lists from ABS and I saw one for 0 Gauge detail parts for wagons - I was looking for some obscure GWR wagon brake gear - and to be honest I am not sure whether the list I had was from ABS, it could have been the GWR or Historical Model Rail Societies.
I also remember a conversation with David Voice (the tramway modeller) in which he said the Anbrico range (00n3 kits) was with ABS.
I was never aware of a full ABS list, but now you have started me thinking it would be logical if there were also Catalogues A, B and C and perhaps E and beyond?
Hope this is of use?
Cheers
David
From: "'Colin Rainsbury' COLINR@... [O14]"
To: O14@...
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2016, 20:40
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
?
Hi David can I ask?does anyone have any
idea of what was in the last wrightline catalogue? I know Adrian also?had
some tramkits and the IOMR railcars?for 00n3?amongst all?his
patterns and I think he has other interesting bits as well, but he never has
time to produce them all.
?
Regards
?
Colin Rainsbury
?
??
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 3:55
PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
Colin
Adrian Swain (Mr Wrightlines) is
not at all well at the moment.? He is unable to do any casting and his
appearance at ExpoNG is doubtful/unlikely.? Could I respectfully suggest
you do not contact him for a while as he is concentrating on far more
important things than model railways?? If he is at ExpoNG then talk to
him by all means - otherwise I would leave it for two to three months.
As far as I know
Wrightlines has always been Wrightlines.? It was started (35 to 40 years
ago?) by Russell Wright (hence the logo a double-bassist with the Bournemouth
Philharmonic, taken over by Kay Butler and when she retired?
Aidrian.? Adrian (the ABS of ABS Castings) always did the mould-making
and castings and things have reverted back to him.? Sinilarly, other
brands (like IKB and BEC) reverted to ABS once the originators moved on.
Their non-availability
leaves many of us frustrated but all we can really do is to wish Aidrian well
and hope he gets better as soon as possible.
Hope this helps
David
From: "'Colin Rainsbury'
COLINR@... [O14]"
To: O14@...
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2016,
13:40
Subject: Re: [O14] Re:
The Stronalacher Saga
?
You are correct Andrew
?
No sooner than I had posted my reply, than
I looked around the web and found that some of the kits which I though had
been done where in fact figments of my imagination.
?
I will have to have a chat to that nice
man who has all the wrightline moulds to see what can be done and just what
kits he is doing.
?
Just out of interest, but what where
wrightlines called before wrightlines, I am sure they took over another model
manufacture before they started or am I just dreaming that as
well?
?
Colin.???
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 10:27
AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
?
That said, I am sure Wrightlines used
to do Prince and the?Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM will have
the L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think chivers fines lines used
to do a 7mm scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others
don't have kits, so there is a lot of scratch building to do in that
case.?????
Colin,
Sadly, your memory is playing tricks with you, the only part of that
which is correct is that EDM will be bringing out the L&B 2-6-2!
Wychbury Loco Works brought out the Ffes England loco which is now sold
by Mercian.
The Darj B Class is available through EDM Models, the only other 7mm
scale version I know of was a French manufactured kit, others have proposed
it but not brought it out.
Wrightlines got to the stage of producing patterns and castings for the
VoR tanks but this never got to the stage of being a released kit.
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
Hi Brian,
I'm seriously impressed if you do your own etching! It also
explains why you don't have any issues using a bitmap format for
the images: PNG is a bitmap format. As to scaling I didn't? mean
for scaling the entire artwork for differing modelling scales,
more changing the size of a part if you initially mis-measured
etc. Clearly if you do the entire process yourself (still really
impressed by that!) then you'll have found a process that works
perfectly for you, I'd just be concerned for anyone starting out
from scratch and wanting to have a company do the actual etching,
and in that instance I'd strongly suggest they use a vector
drawing program or at least check with the etcher first before
investing lots of time in producing drawings as bitmaps,
Mark
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
Mark,
While it is possible to save drawings in a
multitude of file types with Paintshop Pro, I save all
my artwork as “.png” [Portable Network Graphic], and I
do all my own etching, as far as “scaling” goes
artwork cannot be successfully enlarged or reduced to
suit a particular scale, because the artwork if done
properly is designed to use a particular material
thickness, if you were to reduce the artwork in size,
that would mean you also reduce the width of the fold
lines and after the etching is done you wouldn’t get
the brass to fold neatly on those lines because the
lines would be too fine.
?
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 4:04
PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The
Stronalacher Saga
?
Without wanting to suggest that you are doing
anything wrong Brian, I'd suggest that anyone
wanting to learn to produce artwork for etching
avoids using Paintshop Pro or any other bitmap based
software. There are two reasons for this 1) bitmap
based drawings can be difficult to edit, especially
scaling and 2) most companies will refuse to take
bitmap artwork for etching now. Brian, I assume you
have a local company you've been using for a while
and as they know your artwork point 2 is slightly
less relevant.
For those starting to learn to draw the artwork
what you really want to look at isn't necessarily
CAD? (which can be expensive and difficult to learn)
but a vector drawing programme (I use a free
programme called Inkscape: ).
The difference between these two types of programmes
is that a bitmap image just records the colour of
each pixel whereas a vector image is essentially a
set of instructions for how to draw the image. This
means that scaling an image becomes easy as you just
change the instructions, and lines etc. remain
smooth rather than becoming jagged as they do in a
bitmap. It's also easy to move parts around as again
you just change the instructions so the starting
point for a shape changes (all done through the
normal drawing tool interactions you don't have to
worry about the maths yourself). One of the
companies many people in the UK use is PPD Ltd and
they have a set of guides for producing artwork that
are a good starting point for understanding the
process:
All this of course only refers to how you produce
the drawings, and so anyone starting out would do
well to avail themselves of Brian's very kind offer
to help with basic techniques and issues like fold
points etc. that can easily catch out the unwary.
If you are going to ExpoNG then talking to Stephen
on the Narrow Planet stand might be a good idea as
he's been producing etch artwork for a number of
years, not only for name/number plates but also for
their range of kits, as well as custom pieces -- I'm
slightly biased here as I designed their OO9 kit of
the 24hp Hudson-Hunslet diesel loco.
Hope that helps,
Mark
?
Colin,
Making your own etchings isn’t as hard to
do as you may think, the set up cost for the
basic items will cost you about AUD$600 or
about 300UK pound, the hard part is learning
to design your own artwork, instead of using
CAD I use Paintshop Pro7 and instead of
actually working is a scale I simply use
pixels at 72000 resolution each pixel is
equal to .1mm. so I can etch components as
accurate as within .1mm.
Anyone who would like to learn how to
accurately draw there artwork you can
contact me, I can teach you the basic
techniques of how I start to work out how to
establish the fold points etc.
?
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Wednesday, October 12,
2016 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The
Stronalacher Saga
?
?
Thanks
Guys
?
We have
Expong coming up so I hope to be able to
talk to a few people who are making 3D
prints in 009, I realise that if making
a brass etch kit was easy we would all
be doing them, that said, I do take my
hat off to you guys who spend your time
making these kits for the rest of us to
b***er up, I am not going to promise
anything as it could all change over
night so to speak, but the idea behind
this thread was to see if any of the
locos I listed where produced in brass
for 014, I think I have the answer is
generally no.
?
That
said, I am sure Wrightlines used to do
Prince and the Darjeeling B tank and we
know that EDM will have the L&BR
2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think
chivers fines lines used to do a 7mm
scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but
I am sure the others don't have kits, so
there is a lot of scratch building to do
in that case.????
?
There is
one photo of the 4mm version of
Stronalacher which always makes me go
Wow after all this time and the
Darjeeling Garrett with a long slate
train on a Wooden trestle bridge, I
think that would look really cool in
014, it was about 5ft in 009, that would
be somewhere near 2.6 metres in length
in 014.
?
Regards
?
Colin
?
?
?
?
?
???????
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday, October 11, 2016 9:01 PM
Subject:
Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
From what I have seen and heard,
a lot of etchings that have been
done in the past, they have tried to
use too thick of a material which
means it is very hard to get folds
correct, all of the etching I do is
designed to use .4mm. brass sheet,
sometimes after spending countless
hours designing the artwork, the
first test etch will reveal some
problems, mainly because I got mixed
up with which side some fold points
had to be on. Take a look at the
photos of a 91 Class SAR loco I am
building, and study the steps, one
photos shows both sides of the steps
as etched and also what the steps
look like after being folded, all
one piece each.
<>
?
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Wednesday,
October 12, 2016 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [O14]
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
Very true.
Producing
a working CAD drawing that can be
turned in to a pattern or an etch
takes a bit of doing for 3D parts
you need to add shrinkage factors
these change depending on the
material being used to cast the
item.
?
For
etches you have to flatten the
part add bending lines which
change depending on thickness of
material and the level of
distortion you need.
?
I have
lost count of the number of etches
I have ditched and started again
with.
And if you want to just produce a
3D print all parts have interlock
or be drawn from a solid as if
it's just touching and unioned the
printer will see two parts not
one.
?
I
produced our first kit in 1999 and
I'm still getting things wrong on
test etches and you would never
know until you build the
prototype.
Marc
?
Colin,
I
think you'll find a
major difference between
a drawing of a loco even
in CAD and what is
needed for an etched
kit. The 7mm Narrow
Gauge Association has
books of drawings but
most predate home CAD
systems and were
probably done originally
by someone to scratch
build a model. A lot of
the ones published in
NG&IRMR are proper
works drawings. Both
sources need treating
with care, in the former
case one doesn't know
how much information the
draughtsman had and in
the latter you need to
watch what was actually
built as opposed to what
was designed. All of
course, thanks to
someone's, efforts far
better than nothing at
all.
Nothing
like publishing anything
for some further
information to crawl out
of the woodwork and make
a fool of you.
Frank
?
I might be wrong in
thinking this,
but for me an
014 loco kit
will need to
have weight, I
would guess that
if I had a half
decent computer
and the Auto Cad
programme I
would have a go
at producing 7mm
drawings to make
up brass etched
kits and to also
make the masters
for the 3D Cad
castings as
well.
I think 014 has a lot
going for it,
and if I had the
space then I
would consider
building a model
in this size,
One thing which
I am surprised
with and that is
the lack of
narrow gauge
loco and rolling
stock Cad
drawings which
are available
(you watch, some
one will come on
here now and
tell me where I
can find them),
but why stop
there? as you
are half way to
getting an etch
of that item
done.
May be it is just me
getting older
and trying to
cope with all
this new
technology.
----- Original Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday,
October 11,
2016 12:20 PM
Subject: Re:
[O14] Re: The
Stronalacher
Saga
There
was a kit
actually for
the Darjeeling
Garratt in 7mm
scale and I
have seen the
etchings and
resin
castings, now
in the
possession of
a friend and
7mm NGA
member.? BUT
this was, I
gather, one of
just two test
etches and has
never been
released.? If
anyone can
track? down
its heritage
then the
possibility
remains!!
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
Mark,
While it is possible to save drawings in a multitude of file types with
Paintshop Pro, I save all my artwork as “.png” [Portable Network Graphic], and I
do all my own etching, as far as “scaling” goes artwork cannot be successfully
enlarged or reduced to suit a particular scale, because the artwork if done
properly is designed to use a particular material thickness, if you were to
reduce the artwork in size, that would mean you also reduce the width of the
fold lines and after the etching is done you wouldn’t get the brass to fold
neatly on those lines because the lines would be too fine.
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
Without wanting to suggest that you are doing anything wrong Brian, I'd
suggest that anyone wanting to learn to produce artwork for etching avoids using
Paintshop Pro or any other bitmap based software. There are two reasons for this
1) bitmap based drawings can be difficult to edit, especially scaling and 2)
most companies will refuse to take bitmap artwork for etching now. Brian, I
assume you have a local company you've been using for a while and as they know
your artwork point 2 is slightly less relevant.
For those starting to learn to draw the artwork what you really want to look
at isn't necessarily CAD? (which can be expensive and difficult to learn)
but a vector drawing programme (I use a free programme called Inkscape: ). The difference
between these two types of programmes is that a bitmap image just records the
colour of each pixel whereas a vector image is essentially a set of instructions
for how to draw the image. This means that scaling an image becomes easy as you
just change the instructions, and lines etc. remain smooth rather than becoming
jagged as they do in a bitmap. It's also easy to move parts around as again you
just change the instructions so the starting point for a shape changes (all done
through the normal drawing tool interactions you don't have to worry about the
maths yourself). One of the companies many people in the UK use is PPD Ltd and
they have a set of guides for producing artwork that are a good starting point
for understanding the process:
All this of course only refers to how you produce the drawings, and so anyone
starting out would do well to avail themselves of Brian's very kind offer to
help with basic techniques and issues like fold points etc. that can easily
catch out the unwary.
If you are going to ExpoNG then talking to Stephen on the Narrow Planet stand
might be a good idea as he's been producing etch artwork for a number of years,
not only for name/number plates but also for their range of kits, as well as
custom pieces -- I'm slightly biased here as I designed their OO9 kit of the
24hp Hudson-Hunslet diesel loco.
Hope that helps,
Mark
?
Colin,
Making your own etchings isn’t as hard to do as you may think, the set up
cost for the basic items will cost you about AUD$600 or about 300UK pound, the
hard part is learning to design your own artwork, instead of using CAD I use
Paintshop Pro7 and instead of actually working is a scale I simply use pixels
at 72000 resolution each pixel is equal to .1mm. so I can etch components as
accurate as within .1mm.
Anyone who would like to learn how to accurately draw there artwork you
can contact me, I can teach you the basic techniques of how I start to work
out how to establish the fold points etc.
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
?
Thanks Guys
?
We have Expong coming up so I hope to be
able to talk to a few people who are making 3D prints in 009, I realise that
if making a brass etch kit was easy we would all be doing them, that said, I
do take my hat off to you guys who spend your time making these kits for the
rest of us to b***er up, I am not going to promise anything as it could all
change over night so to speak, but the idea behind this thread was to see if
any of the locos I listed where produced in brass for 014, I think I have the
answer is generally no.
?
That said, I am sure Wrightlines used to
do Prince and the Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM will have the
L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think chivers fines lines used to do a
7mm scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others don't have
kits, so there is a lot of scratch building to do in that
case.????
?
There is one photo of the 4mm version of
Stronalacher which always makes me go Wow after all this time and the
Darjeeling Garrett with a long slate train on a Wooden trestle bridge, I think
that would look really cool in 014, it was about 5ft in 009, that would be
somewhere near 2.6 metres in length in 014.
?
Regards
?
Colin
?
?
?
?
?
???????
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 9:01
PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
?
From what I have seen and heard, a lot of etchings that have been done
in the past, they have tried to use too thick of a material which means it
is very hard to get folds correct, all of the etching I do is designed to
use .4mm. brass sheet, sometimes after spending countless hours designing
the artwork, the first test etch will reveal some problems, mainly because I
got mixed up with which side some fold points had to be on. Take a look at
the photos of a 91 Class SAR loco I am building, and study the steps, one
photos shows both sides of the steps as etched and also what the steps look
like after being folded, all one piece each.
<>
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
Very true.
Producing a working CAD drawing that can be
turned in to a pattern or an etch takes a bit of doing for 3D parts you need
to add shrinkage factors these change depending on the material being used
to cast the item.
?
For etches you have to flatten the part add
bending lines which change depending on thickness of material and the level
of distortion you need.
?
I have lost count of the number of etches I have
ditched and started again with.
And if you want to just produce a 3D
print all parts have interlock or be drawn from a solid as if it's just
touching and unioned the printer will see two parts not one.
?
I produced our first kit in 1999 and I'm still
getting things wrong on test etches and you would never know until you build
the prototype.
Marc
?
Colin,
I think
you'll find a major difference between a drawing of a loco even in CAD and
what is needed for an etched kit. The 7mm Narrow Gauge Association has
books of drawings but most predate home CAD systems and were probably done
originally by someone to scratch build a model. A lot of the ones
published in NG&IRMR are proper works drawings. Both sources need
treating with care, in the former case one doesn't know how much
information the draughtsman had and in the latter you need to watch what
was actually built as opposed to what was designed. All of course, thanks
to someone's, efforts far better than nothing at all.
Nothing
like publishing anything for some further information to crawl out of the
woodwork and make a fool of you.
Frank
?
I
might be wrong in thinking this, but for me an 014 loco kit will need to
have weight, I would guess that if I had a half decent computer and the
Auto Cad programme I would have a go at producing 7mm drawings to make up
brass etched kits and to also make the masters for the 3D Cad castings as
well.
I
think 014 has a lot going for it, and if I had the space then I would
consider building a model in this size, One thing which I am surprised
with and that is the lack of narrow gauge loco and rolling stock Cad
drawings which are available (you watch, some one will come on here now
and tell me where I can find them), but why stop there? as you are half
way to getting an etch of that item done.
May
be it is just me getting older and trying to cope with all this new
technology.
----- Original Message
-----
Sent:
Tuesday, October 11, 2016 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
There was a kit actually for the
Darjeeling Garratt in 7mm scale and I have seen the etchings and resin
castings, now in the possession of a friend and 7mm NGA member.?
BUT this was, I gather, one of just two test etches and has never been
released.? If anyone can track? down its heritage then the
possibility remains!!
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
Hi David can I ask?does anyone have any
idea of what was in the last wrightline catalogue? I know Adrian also?had
some tramkits and the IOMR railcars?for 00n3?amongst all?his
patterns and I think he has other interesting bits as well, but he never has
time to produce them all.
?
Regards
?
Colin Rainsbury
?
??
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 3:55
PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
Colin
Adrian Swain (Mr Wrightlines) is
not at all well at the moment.? He is unable to do any casting and his
appearance at ExpoNG is doubtful/unlikely.? Could I respectfully suggest
you do not contact him for a while as he is concentrating on far more
important things than model railways?? If he is at ExpoNG then talk to
him by all means - otherwise I would leave it for two to three months.
As far as I know
Wrightlines has always been Wrightlines.? It was started (35 to 40 years
ago?) by Russell Wright (hence the logo a double-bassist with the Bournemouth
Philharmonic, taken over by Kay Butler and when she retired?
Aidrian.? Adrian (the ABS of ABS Castings) always did the mould-making
and castings and things have reverted back to him.? Sinilarly, other
brands (like IKB and BEC) reverted to ABS once the originators moved on.
Their non-availability
leaves many of us frustrated but all we can really do is to wish Aidrian well
and hope he gets better as soon as possible.
Hope this helps
David
From: "'Colin Rainsbury'
COLINR@... [O14]"
To: O14@...
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2016,
13:40
Subject: Re: [O14] Re:
The Stronalacher Saga
?
You are correct Andrew
?
No sooner than I had posted my reply, than
I looked around the web and found that some of the kits which I though had
been done where in fact figments of my imagination.
?
I will have to have a chat to that nice
man who has all the wrightline moulds to see what can be done and just what
kits he is doing.
?
Just out of interest, but what where
wrightlines called before wrightlines, I am sure they took over another model
manufacture before they started or am I just dreaming that as
well?
?
Colin.???
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 10:27
AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
?
That said, I am sure Wrightlines used
to do Prince and the?Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM will have
the L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think chivers fines lines used
to do a 7mm scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others
don't have kits, so there is a lot of scratch building to do in that
case.?????
Colin,
Sadly, your memory is playing tricks with you, the only part of that
which is correct is that EDM will be bringing out the L&B 2-6-2!
Wychbury Loco Works brought out the Ffes England loco which is now sold
by Mercian.
The Darj B Class is available through EDM Models, the only other 7mm
scale version I know of was a French manufactured kit, others have proposed
it but not brought it out.
Wrightlines got to the stage of producing patterns and castings for the
VoR tanks but this never got to the stage of being a released kit.
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
Hi David this is of some concern not only to
you but to many others as well, I recall that Adrian was looking for someone to
take over the whole range as he was very ill two years ago, the last time I
spoke to him he had not found anyone willing to take it over, like you I wish
him well and maybe it is time to think about what happens next.
?
Colin??
?
?
?
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 3:55
PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
Colin
Adrian Swain (Mr Wrightlines) is
not at all well at the moment.? He is unable to do any casting and his
appearance at ExpoNG is doubtful/unlikely.? Could I respectfully suggest
you do not contact him for a while as he is concentrating on far more
important things than model railways?? If he is at ExpoNG then talk to
him by all means - otherwise I would leave it for two to three months.
As far as I know
Wrightlines has always been Wrightlines.? It was started (35 to 40 years
ago?) by Russell Wright (hence the logo a double-bassist with the Bournemouth
Philharmonic, taken over by Kay Butler and when she retired?
Aidrian.? Adrian (the ABS of ABS Castings) always did the mould-making
and castings and things have reverted back to him.? Sinilarly, other
brands (like IKB and BEC) reverted to ABS once the originators moved on.
Their non-availability
leaves many of us frustrated but all we can really do is to wish Aidrian well
and hope he gets better as soon as possible.
Hope this helps
David
From: "'Colin Rainsbury'
COLINR@... [O14]"
To: O14@...
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2016,
13:40
Subject: Re: [O14] Re:
The Stronalacher Saga
?
You are correct Andrew
?
No sooner than I had posted my reply, than
I looked around the web and found that some of the kits which I though had
been done where in fact figments of my imagination.
?
I will have to have a chat to that nice
man who has all the wrightline moulds to see what can be done and just what
kits he is doing.
?
Just out of interest, but what where
wrightlines called before wrightlines, I am sure they took over another model
manufacture before they started or am I just dreaming that as
well?
?
Colin.???
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 10:27
AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
?
That said, I am sure Wrightlines used
to do Prince and the?Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM will have
the L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think chivers fines lines used
to do a 7mm scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others
don't have kits, so there is a lot of scratch building to do in that
case.?????
Colin,
Sadly, your memory is playing tricks with you, the only part of that
which is correct is that EDM will be bringing out the L&B 2-6-2!
Wychbury Loco Works brought out the Ffes England loco which is now sold
by Mercian.
The Darj B Class is available through EDM Models, the only other 7mm
scale version I know of was a French manufactured kit, others have proposed
it but not brought it out.
Wrightlines got to the stage of producing patterns and castings for the
VoR tanks but this never got to the stage of being a released kit.
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
I sold Russell Wright my 0-16.5 kits when I decided to concentrate exclusively on O14 products - this must have been about 1986. He took the Bagnall 0-4-0ST, Hudswell/Hunslet 0-6-0WT (which I later bought back from Kay Butler and is now part of the KBscale range) the Simplex kit and the parts for a tipper and bolster wagon (actually 1:32 scale).
I also produced parts for Russell Wright and drew up instruction sheets. The only complete kit I did for Wrightlines was the loco, Dolgoch, where I created the patterns, etch and instruction artwork and driving wheel centre tool (moulded by Alan Gibson). I also used to draw up line illustrations of the loco kits for Russell to use as box art.
As noted, Wrightscale has no connection with Wrightlines.
Roy
email: rclpubs@...website:www.narrowgaugeandindustrial.co.uk
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Colin, ? IF I've got this correct, some of the Wrightlines kits originated or had masters made by Roy Link, Robin Wright took them over and passed them on later to Kay Butler. I think Robin now trades in 16mm as Wrightscale. Don't quote me, but I think that is (W)right. ? Frank ? ? ? No sooner than I had posted my reply, than I looked around the web and found that some of the kits which I though had been done where in fact figments of my imagination. I will have to have a chat to that nice man who has all the wrightline moulds to see what can be done and just what kits he is doing. Just out of interest, but what where wrightlines called before wrightlines, I am sure they took over another model manufacture before they started or am I just dreaming that as well? ----- Original Message ----- Sent:?Wednesday, October 12, 2016 10:27 AM Subject:?Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga ? That said, I am sure Wrightlines used to do Prince and the?Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM will have the L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think chivers fines lines used to do a 7mm scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others don't have kits, so there is a lot of scratch building to do in that case.?????
Colin, Sadly, your memory is playing tricks with you, the only part of that which is correct is that EDM will be bringing out the L&B 2-6-2! Wychbury Loco Works brought out the Ffes England loco which is now sold by Mercian. The Darj B Class is available through EDM Models, the only other 7mm scale version I know of was a French manufactured kit, others have proposed it but not brought it out. Wrightlines got to the stage of producing patterns and castings for the VoR tanks but this never got to the stage of being a released kit.
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
Hi Frank
Not quite,? Wrightlines was Russell Wright - but thence as you say.
The 16mm one is Malcolm Wright and he trades as Wrightscale; lives near Arbroath up here.? Malcolm's wife Sarah wrote the recent book on Col. Pechot and his 60 cm railways.
Cheers
David
From: "'Frank Sharp' frank.j.sharp@... [O14]"
To: O14@...
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2016, 16:44
Subject: RE: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
Colin, ? IF I've got this correct, some of the Wrightlines kits originated or had masters made by Roy Link, Robin Wright took them over and passed them on later to Kay Butler. I think Robin now trades in 16mm as Wrightscale. Don't quote me, but I think that is (W)right. ? Frank ? From: O14@... [mailto:O14@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October, 2016 13:41
To: O14@...
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga ? ? No sooner than I had posted my reply, than I looked around the web and found that some of the kits which I though had been done where in fact figments of my imagination. I will have to have a chat to that nice man who has all the wrightline moulds to see what can be done and just what kits he is doing. Just out of interest, but what where wrightlines called before wrightlines, I am sure they took over another model manufacture before they started or am I just dreaming that as well? ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga ? That said, I am sure Wrightlines used to do Prince and the?Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM will have the L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think chivers fines lines used to do a 7mm scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others don't have kits, so there is a lot of scratch building to do in that case.?????
Colin, Sadly, your memory is playing tricks with you, the only part of that which is correct is that EDM will be bringing out the L&B 2-6-2! Wychbury Loco Works brought out the Ffes England loco which is now sold by Mercian. The Darj B Class is available through EDM Models, the only other 7mm scale version I know of was a French manufactured kit, others have proposed it but not brought it out. Wrightlines got to the stage of producing patterns and castings for the VoR tanks but this never got to the stage of being a released kit.
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
Colin, ? IF I've got this correct, some of the Wrightlines kits originated or had masters made by Roy Link, Robin Wright took them over and passed them on later to Kay Butler. I think Robin now trades in 16mm as Wrightscale. Don't quote me, but I think that is (W)right. ? Frank ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: O14@... [mailto:O14@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October, 2016 13:41
To: O14@...
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga? ? No sooner than I had posted my reply, than I looked around the web and found that some of the kits which I though had been done where in fact figments of my imagination. I will have to have a chat to that nice man who has all the wrightline moulds to see what can be done and just what kits he is doing. Just out of interest, but what where wrightlines called before wrightlines, I am sure they took over another model manufacture before they started or am I just dreaming that as well? ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga ? That said, I am sure Wrightlines used to do Prince and the?Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM will have the L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think chivers fines lines used to do a 7mm scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others don't have kits, so there is a lot of scratch building to do in that case.?????
Colin, Sadly, your memory is playing tricks with you, the only part of that which is correct is that EDM will be bringing out the L&B 2-6-2! Wychbury Loco Works brought out the Ffes England loco which is now sold by Mercian. The Darj B Class is available through EDM Models, the only other 7mm scale version I know of was a French manufactured kit, others have proposed it but not brought it out. Wrightlines got to the stage of producing patterns and castings for the VoR tanks but this never got to the stage of being a released kit.
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
Colin
Adrian Swain (Mr Wrightlines) is not at all well at the moment.? He is unable to do any casting and his appearance at ExpoNG is doubtful/unlikely.? Could I respectfully suggest you do not contact him for a while as he is concentrating on far more important things than model railways?? If he is at ExpoNG then talk to him by all means - otherwise I would leave it for two to three months.
As far as I know Wrightlines has always been Wrightlines.? It was started (35 to 40 years ago?) by Russell Wright (hence the logo a double-bassist with the Bournemouth Philharmonic, taken over by Kay Butler and when she retired? Aidrian.? Adrian (the ABS of ABS Castings) always did the mould-making and castings and things have reverted back to him.? Sinilarly, other brands (like IKB and BEC) reverted to ABS once the originators moved on.
Their non-availability leaves many of us frustrated but all we can really do is to wish Aidrian well and hope he gets better as soon as possible.
Hope this helps
David
From: "'Colin Rainsbury' COLINR@... [O14]"
To: O14@...
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2016, 13:40
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
You are correct Andrew
?
No sooner than I had posted my reply, than I
looked around the web and found that some of the kits which I though had been
done where in fact figments of my imagination.
?
I will have to have a chat to that nice man
who has all the wrightline moulds to see what can be done and just what kits he
is doing.
?
Just out of interest, but what where
wrightlines called before wrightlines, I am sure they took over another model
manufacture before they started or am I just dreaming that as well?
?
Colin.???
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 10:27
AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
?
That said, I am sure Wrightlines used to
do Prince and the?Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM will have the
L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think chivers fines lines used to do
a 7mm scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others don't
have kits, so there is a lot of scratch building to do in that
case.?????
Colin,
Sadly, your memory is playing tricks with you, the only part of that
which is correct is that EDM will be bringing out the L&B 2-6-2!
Wychbury Loco Works brought out the Ffes England loco which is now sold
by Mercian.
The Darj B Class is available through EDM Models, the only other 7mm
scale version I know of was a French manufactured kit, others have proposed it
but not brought it out.
Wrightlines got to the stage of producing patterns and castings for the
VoR tanks but this never got to the stage of being a released kit.
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
You are correct Andrew
?
No sooner than I had posted my reply, than I
looked around the web and found that some of the kits which I though had been
done where in fact figments of my imagination.
?
I will have to have a chat to that nice man
who has all the wrightline moulds to see what can be done and just what kits he
is doing.
?
Just out of interest, but what where
wrightlines called before wrightlines, I am sure they took over another model
manufacture before they started or am I just dreaming that as well?
?
Colin.???
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 10:27
AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
?
That said, I am sure Wrightlines used to
do Prince and the?Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM will have the
L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think chivers fines lines used to do
a 7mm scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others don't
have kits, so there is a lot of scratch building to do in that
case.?????
Colin,
Sadly, your memory is playing tricks with you, the only part of that
which is correct is that EDM will be bringing out the L&B 2-6-2!
Wychbury Loco Works brought out the Ffes England loco which is now sold
by Mercian.
The Darj B Class is available through EDM Models, the only other 7mm
scale version I know of was a French manufactured kit, others have proposed it
but not brought it out.
Wrightlines got to the stage of producing patterns and castings for the
VoR tanks but this never got to the stage of being a released kit.
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
That said, I am sure Wrightlines used to do
Prince and the?Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM will have the
L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think chivers fines lines used to do a
7mm scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others don't have
kits, so there is a lot of scratch building to do in that
case.?????
Colin,
Sadly, your memory is playing tricks with you, the only part of that which is correct is that EDM will be bringing out the L&B 2-6-2!
Wychbury Loco Works brought out the Ffes England loco which is now sold by Mercian.
The Darj B Class is available through EDM Models, the only other 7mm scale version I know of was a French manufactured kit, others have proposed it but not brought it out.
Wrightlines got to the stage of producing patterns and castings for the VoR tanks but this never got to the stage of being a released kit.
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
Thanks Mark
?
Funnily enough it was Stephen I wanted to
have a chat to, due to various reasons I have not been able to get to any of the
Greenwich meetings of late, but having a chat to him would help the long term
process.
?
I have to admit that I would like to do a
couple of 00n3 locos as well, now I have the?works drawings and photos to
go with them.
?
Regards
?
Colin
?
?
?
?
?
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 7:04
AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
Without wanting to suggest that you are doing anything wrong Brian, I'd
suggest that anyone wanting to learn to produce artwork for etching avoids
using Paintshop Pro or any other bitmap based software. There are two reasons
for this 1) bitmap based drawings can be difficult to edit, especially scaling
and 2) most companies will refuse to take bitmap artwork for etching now.
Brian, I assume you have a local company you've been using for a while and as
they know your artwork point 2 is slightly less relevant.
For those starting to learn to draw the artwork what you really want to
look at isn't necessarily CAD? (which can be expensive and difficult to
learn) but a vector drawing programme (I use a free programme called Inkscape:
). The difference
between these two types of programmes is that a bitmap image just records the
colour of each pixel whereas a vector image is essentially a set of
instructions for how to draw the image. This means that scaling an image
becomes easy as you just change the instructions, and lines etc. remain smooth
rather than becoming jagged as they do in a bitmap. It's also easy to move
parts around as again you just change the instructions so the starting point
for a shape changes (all done through the normal drawing tool interactions you
don't have to worry about the maths yourself). One of the companies many
people in the UK use is PPD Ltd and they have a set of guides for producing
artwork that are a good starting point for understanding the process:
All this of course only refers to how you produce the drawings, and so
anyone starting out would do well to avail themselves of Brian's very kind
offer to help with basic techniques and issues like fold points etc. that can
easily catch out the unwary.
If you are going to ExpoNG then talking to Stephen on the Narrow Planet
stand might be a good idea as he's been producing etch artwork for a number of
years, not only for name/number plates but also for their range of kits, as
well as custom pieces -- I'm slightly biased here as I designed their OO9 kit
of the 24hp Hudson-Hunslet diesel loco.
Hope that helps,
Mark
?
Colin,
Making your own etchings isn’t as hard to do as you may think, the set
up cost for the basic items will cost you about AUD$600 or about 300UK
pound, the hard part is learning to design your own artwork, instead of
using CAD I use Paintshop Pro7 and instead of actually working is a scale I
simply use pixels at 72000 resolution each pixel is equal to .1mm. so I can
etch components as accurate as within .1mm.
Anyone who would like to learn how to accurately draw there artwork you
can contact me, I can teach you the basic techniques of how I start to work
out how to establish the fold points etc.
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
?
Thanks Guys
?
We have Expong coming up so I hope to be
able to talk to a few people who are making 3D prints in 009, I realise that
if making a brass etch kit was easy we would all be doing them, that said, I
do take my hat off to you guys who spend your time making these kits for the
rest of us to b***er up, I am not going to promise anything as it could all
change over night so to speak, but the idea behind this thread was to see if
any of the locos I listed where produced in brass for 014, I think I have
the answer is generally no.
?
That said, I am sure Wrightlines used to
do Prince and the Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM will have the
L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think chivers fines lines used to do
a 7mm scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others don't
have kits, so there is a lot of scratch building to do in that
case.????
?
There is one photo of the 4mm version of
Stronalacher which always makes me go Wow after all this time and the
Darjeeling Garrett with a long slate train on a Wooden trestle bridge, I
think that would look really cool in 014, it was about 5ft in 009, that
would be somewhere near 2.6 metres in length in 014.
?
Regards
?
Colin
?
?
?
?
?
???????
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 9:01
PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The
Stronalacher Saga
?
From what I have seen and heard, a lot of etchings that have been
done in the past, they have tried to use too thick of a material which
means it is very hard to get folds correct, all of the etching I do is
designed to use .4mm. brass sheet, sometimes after spending countless
hours designing the artwork, the first test etch will reveal some
problems, mainly because I got mixed up with which side some fold points
had to be on. Take a look at the photos of a 91 Class SAR loco I am
building, and study the steps, one photos shows both sides of the steps as
etched and also what the steps look like after being folded, all one piece
each.
<>
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
Very true.
Producing a working CAD drawing that can be
turned in to a pattern or an etch takes a bit of doing for 3D parts you
need to add shrinkage factors these change depending on the material being
used to cast the item.
?
For etches you have to flatten the part add
bending lines which change depending on thickness of material and the
level of distortion you need.
?
I have lost count of the number of etches I
have ditched and started again with.
And if you want to just
produce a 3D print all parts have interlock or be drawn from a solid as if
it's just touching and unioned the printer will see two parts not
one.
?
I produced our first kit in 1999 and I'm still
getting things wrong on test etches and you would never know until you
build the prototype.
Marc
?
Colin,
I think
you'll find a major difference between a drawing of a loco even in CAD
and what is needed for an etched kit. The 7mm Narrow Gauge Association
has books of drawings but most predate home CAD systems and were
probably done originally by someone to scratch build a model. A lot of
the ones published in NG&IRMR are proper works drawings. Both
sources need treating with care, in the former case one doesn't know how
much information the draughtsman had and in the latter you need to watch
what was actually built as opposed to what was designed. All of course,
thanks to someone's, efforts far better than nothing at
all.
Nothing
like publishing anything for some further information to crawl out of
the woodwork and make a fool of you.
Frank
?
I might be
wrong in thinking this, but for me an 014 loco kit will need to have
weight, I would guess that if I had a half decent computer and the Auto
Cad programme I would have a go at producing 7mm drawings to make up
brass etched kits and to also make the masters for the 3D Cad castings
as well.
I think
014 has a lot going for it, and if I had the space then I would consider
building a model in this size, One thing which I am surprised with and
that is the lack of narrow gauge loco and rolling stock Cad drawings
which are available (you watch, some one will come on here now and tell
me where I can find them), but why stop there? as you are half way to
getting an etch of that item done.
May be it
is just me getting older and trying to cope with all this new
technology.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday, October 11, 2016 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
There was a kit actually for the
Darjeeling Garratt in 7mm scale and I have seen the etchings and resin
castings, now in the possession of a friend and 7mm NGA member.?
BUT this was, I gather, one of just two test etches and has never been
released.? If anyone can track? down its heritage then the
possibility remains!!
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
Without wanting to suggest that you are doing anything wrong
Brian, I'd suggest that anyone wanting to learn to produce artwork
for etching avoids using Paintshop Pro or any other bitmap based
software. There are two reasons for this 1) bitmap based drawings
can be difficult to edit, especially scaling and 2) most companies
will refuse to take bitmap artwork for etching now. Brian, I
assume you have a local company you've been using for a while and
as they know your artwork point 2 is slightly less relevant.
For those starting to learn to draw the artwork what you really
want to look at isn't necessarily CAD? (which can be expensive and
difficult to learn) but a vector drawing programme (I use a free
programme called Inkscape: ). The
difference between these two types of programmes is that a bitmap
image just records the colour of each pixel whereas a vector image
is essentially a set of instructions for how to draw the image.
This means that scaling an image becomes easy as you just change
the instructions, and lines etc. remain smooth rather than
becoming jagged as they do in a bitmap. It's also easy to move
parts around as again you just change the instructions so the
starting point for a shape changes (all done through the normal
drawing tool interactions you don't have to worry about the maths
yourself). One of the companies many people in the UK use is PPD
Ltd and they have a set of guides for producing artwork that are a
good starting point for understanding the process:
All this of course only refers to how you produce the drawings,
and so anyone starting out would do well to avail themselves of
Brian's very kind offer to help with basic techniques and issues
like fold points etc. that can easily catch out the unwary.
If you are going to ExpoNG then talking to Stephen on the Narrow
Planet stand might be a good idea as he's been producing etch
artwork for a number of years, not only for name/number plates but
also for their range of kits, as well as custom pieces -- I'm
slightly biased here as I designed their OO9 kit of the 24hp
Hudson-Hunslet diesel loco.
Hope that helps,
Mark
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
Colin,
Making your own etchings isn’t as hard to do as you
may think, the set up cost for the basic items will
cost you about AUD$600 or about 300UK pound, the hard
part is learning to design your own artwork, instead
of using CAD I use Paintshop Pro7 and instead of
actually working is a scale I simply use pixels at
72000 resolution each pixel is equal to .1mm. so I can
etch components as accurate as within .1mm.
Anyone who would like to learn how to accurately
draw there artwork you can contact me, I can teach you
the basic techniques of how I start to work out how to
establish the fold points etc.
?
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 9:32
AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The
Stronalacher Saga
?
?
Thanks Guys
?
We have Expong
coming up so I hope to be able to talk to a few
people who are making 3D prints in 009, I realise
that if making a brass etch kit was easy we would
all be doing them, that said, I do take my hat off
to you guys who spend your time making these kits
for the rest of us to b***er up, I am not going to
promise anything as it could all change over night
so to speak, but the idea behind this thread was
to see if any of the locos I listed where produced
in brass for 014, I think I have the answer is
generally no.
?
That said, I am
sure Wrightlines used to do Prince and the
Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM will have
the L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think
chivers fines lines used to do a 7mm scale Vale of
Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others
don't have kits, so there is a lot of scratch
building to do in that case.????
?
There is one photo
of the 4mm version of Stronalacher which always
makes me go Wow after all this time and the
Darjeeling Garrett with a long slate train on a
Wooden trestle bridge, I think that would look
really cool in 014, it was about 5ft in 009, that
would be somewhere near 2.6 metres in length in
014.
?
Regards
?
Colin
?
?
?
?
?
???????
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Tuesday,
October 11, 2016 9:01 PM
Subject: Re:
[O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
From what I have seen and heard, a lot of
etchings that have been done in the past, they
have tried to use too thick of a material
which means it is very hard to get folds
correct, all of the etching I do is designed
to use .4mm. brass sheet, sometimes after
spending countless hours designing the
artwork, the first test etch will reveal some
problems, mainly because I got mixed up with
which side some fold points had to be on. Take
a look at the photos of a 91 Class SAR loco I
am building, and study the steps, one photos
shows both sides of the steps as etched and
also what the steps look like after being
folded, all one piece each.
<>
?
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Wednesday, October 12,
2016 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The
Stronalacher Saga
?
Very true.
Producing a
working CAD drawing that can be turned in to
a pattern or an etch takes a bit of doing
for 3D parts you need to add shrinkage
factors these change depending on the
material being used to cast the item.
?
For etches you
have to flatten the part add bending lines
which change depending on thickness of
material and the level of distortion you
need.
?
I have lost count
of the number of etches I have ditched and
started again with.
And if you want to just produce a 3D print
all parts have interlock or be drawn from a
solid as if it's just touching and unioned
the printer will see two parts not one.
?
I produced our
first kit in 1999 and I'm still getting
things wrong on test etches and you would
never know until you build the prototype.
Marc
?
Colin,
I think you'll find a
major difference between a drawing
of a loco even in CAD and what is
needed for an etched kit. The 7mm
Narrow Gauge Association has books
of drawings but most predate home
CAD systems and were probably done
originally by someone to scratch
build a model. A lot of the ones
published in NG&IRMR are
proper works drawings. Both
sources need treating with care,
in the former case one doesn't
know how much information the
draughtsman had and in the latter
you need to watch what was
actually built as opposed to what
was designed. All of course,
thanks to someone's, efforts far
better than nothing at all.
Nothing like publishing
anything for some further
information to crawl out of the
woodwork and make a fool of you.
Frank
?
I might
be wrong in thinking this,
but for me an 014 loco kit
will need to have weight,
I would guess that if I
had a half decent computer
and the Auto Cad programme
I would have a go at
producing 7mm drawings to
make up brass etched kits
and to also make the
masters for the 3D Cad
castings as well.
I think
014 has a lot going for
it, and if I had the space
then I would consider
building a model in this
size, One thing which I am
surprised with and that is
the lack of narrow gauge
loco and rolling stock Cad
drawings which are
available (you watch, some
one will come on here now
and tell me where I can
find them), but why stop
there? as you are half way
to getting an etch of that
item done.
May be it
is just me getting older
and trying to cope with
all this new technology.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday, October 11,
2016 12:20 PM
Subject:
Re: [O14] Re: The
Stronalacher Saga
There was a kit
actually for the
Darjeeling Garratt in
7mm scale and I have
seen the etchings and
resin castings, now in
the possession of a
friend and 7mm NGA
member.? BUT this was, I
gather, one of just two
test etches and has
never been released.? If
anyone can track? down
its heritage then the
possibility remains!!
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
Colin,
Making your own etchings isn’t as hard to do as you may think, the set up
cost for the basic items will cost you about AUD$600 or about 300UK pound, the
hard part is learning to design your own artwork, instead of using CAD I use
Paintshop Pro7 and instead of actually working is a scale I simply use pixels at
72000 resolution each pixel is equal to .1mm. so I can etch components as
accurate as within .1mm.
Anyone who would like to learn how to accurately draw there artwork you can
contact me, I can teach you the basic techniques of how I start to work out how
to establish the fold points etc.
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
?
Thanks Guys
?
We have Expong coming up so I hope to be
able to talk to a few people who are making 3D prints in 009, I realise that if
making a brass etch kit was easy we would all be doing them, that said, I do
take my hat off to you guys who spend your time making these kits for the rest
of us to b***er up, I am not going to promise anything as it could all change
over night so to speak, but the idea behind this thread was to see if any of the
locos I listed where produced in brass for 014, I think I have the answer is
generally no.
?
That said, I am sure Wrightlines used to do
Prince and the Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM will have the L&BR
2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think chivers fines lines used to do a 7mm scale
Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others don't have kits, so
there is a lot of scratch building to do in that case.????
?
There is one photo of the 4mm version of
Stronalacher which always makes me go Wow after all this time and the Darjeeling
Garrett with a long slate train on a Wooden trestle bridge, I think that would
look really cool in 014, it was about 5ft in 009, that would be somewhere near
2.6 metres in length in 014.
?
Regards
?
Colin
?
?
?
?
?
???????
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 9:01
PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
?
From what I have seen and heard, a lot of etchings that have been done in
the past, they have tried to use too thick of a material which means it is
very hard to get folds correct, all of the etching I do is designed to use
.4mm. brass sheet, sometimes after spending countless hours designing the
artwork, the first test etch will reveal some problems, mainly because I got
mixed up with which side some fold points had to be on. Take a look at the
photos of a 91 Class SAR loco I am building, and study the steps, one photos
shows both sides of the steps as etched and also what the steps look like
after being folded, all one piece each.
<>
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
Very true.
Producing a working CAD drawing that can be turned
in to a pattern or an etch takes a bit of doing for 3D parts you need to add
shrinkage factors these change depending on the material being used to cast
the item.
?
For etches you have to flatten the part add bending
lines which change depending on thickness of material and the level of
distortion you need.
?
I have lost count of the number of etches I have
ditched and started again with.
And if you want to just produce a 3D
print all parts have interlock or be drawn from a solid as if it's just
touching and unioned the printer will see two parts not one.
?
I produced our first kit in 1999 and I'm still
getting things wrong on test etches and you would never know until you build
the prototype.
Marc
?
Colin,
I think
you'll find a major difference between a drawing of a loco even in CAD and
what is needed for an etched kit. The 7mm Narrow Gauge Association has books
of drawings but most predate home CAD systems and were probably done
originally by someone to scratch build a model. A lot of the ones published
in NG&IRMR are proper works drawings. Both sources need treating with
care, in the former case one doesn't know how much information the
draughtsman had and in the latter you need to watch what was actually built
as opposed to what was designed. All of course, thanks to someone's, efforts
far better than nothing at all.
Nothing
like publishing anything for some further information to crawl out of the
woodwork and make a fool of you.
Frank
?
I
might be wrong in thinking this, but for me an 014 loco kit will need to
have weight, I would guess that if I had a half decent computer and the Auto
Cad programme I would have a go at producing 7mm drawings to make up brass
etched kits and to also make the masters for the 3D Cad castings as
well.
I
think 014 has a lot going for it, and if I had the space then I would
consider building a model in this size, One thing which I am surprised with
and that is the lack of narrow gauge loco and rolling stock Cad drawings
which are available (you watch, some one will come on here now and tell me
where I can find them), but why stop there? as you are half way to getting
an etch of that item done.
May be it is just me
getting older and trying to cope with all this new
technology.
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 12:20
PM
Subject:
Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
There was a kit actually for the Darjeeling
Garratt in 7mm scale and I have seen the etchings and resin castings, now
in the possession of a friend and 7mm NGA member.? BUT this was, I
gather, one of just two test etches and has never been released.? If
anyone can track? down its heritage then the possibility remains!!
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
Thanks Guys
?
We have Expong coming up so I hope to be
able to talk to a few people who are making 3D?prints in 009, I realise
that if making a?brass etch kit was easy we would all be doing them, that
said, I do?take my hat off to you guys who spend your time making these
kits for the rest of us to b***er up, I am not going to promise anything as it
could all change over night so to speak, but the idea behind this thread was to
see if any of the locos I listed where produced in brass for?014, I think I
have the answer is?generally no.
?
That said, I am sure Wrightlines used to do
Prince and the?Darjeeling B tank and we know that EDM will have the
L&BR 2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think chivers fines lines used to do a
7mm scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but I am sure the others don't have
kits, so there is a lot of scratch building to do in that
case.?????
?
There is one photo of the 4mm version of
Stronalacher which always makes me go Wow after all this time and the Darjeeling
Garrett with a long slate train on a Wooden trestle bridge, I think that would
look really cool in 014, it was about 5ft in 009, that would be somewhere near
2.6 metres in length in 014.
?
Regards
?
Colin
?
?
?
?
?
????????
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 9:01
PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
From what I have seen and heard, a lot of etchings that have been done in
the past, they have tried to use too thick of a material which means it is
very hard to get folds correct, all of the etching I do is designed to use
.4mm. brass sheet, sometimes after spending countless hours designing the
artwork, the first test etch will reveal some problems, mainly because I got
mixed up with which side some fold points had to be on. Take a look at the
photos of a 91 Class SAR loco I am building, and study the steps, one photos
shows both sides of the steps as etched and also what the steps look like
after being folded, all one piece each.
<>
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
Very true.
Producing a working CAD drawing that can be turned
in to a pattern or an etch takes a bit of doing for 3D parts you need to add
shrinkage factors these change depending on the material being used to cast
the item.
?
For etches you have to flatten the part add bending
lines which change depending on thickness of material and the level of
distortion you need.
?
I have lost count of the number of etches I have
ditched and started again with.
And if you want to just produce a 3D
print all parts have interlock or be drawn from a solid as if it's just
touching and unioned the printer will see two parts not one.
?
I produced our first kit in 1999 and I'm still
getting things wrong on test etches and you would never know until you build
the prototype.
Marc
?
Colin,
I think
you'll find a major difference between a drawing of a loco even in CAD and
what is needed for an etched kit. The 7mm Narrow Gauge Association has books
of drawings but most predate home CAD systems and were probably done
originally by someone to scratch build a model. A lot of the ones published
in NG&IRMR are proper works drawings. Both sources need treating with
care, in the former case one doesn't know how much information the
draughtsman had and in the latter you need to watch what was actually built
as opposed to what was designed. All of course, thanks to someone's, efforts
far better than nothing at all.
Nothing
like publishing anything for some further information to crawl out of the
woodwork and make a fool of you.
Frank
?
I
might be wrong in thinking this, but for me an 014 loco kit will need to
have weight, I would guess that if I had a half decent computer and the Auto
Cad programme I would have a go at producing 7mm drawings to make up brass
etched kits and to also make the masters for the 3D Cad castings as
well.
I
think 014 has a lot going for it, and if I had the space then I would
consider building a model in this size, One thing which I am surprised with
and that is the lack of narrow gauge loco and rolling stock Cad drawings
which are available (you watch, some one will come on here now and tell me
where I can find them), but why stop there? as you are half way to getting
an etch of that item done.
May be it is just me
getting older and trying to cope with all this new
technology.
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 12:20
PM
Subject:
Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
There was a kit actually for the Darjeeling
Garratt in 7mm scale and I have seen the etchings and resin castings, now
in the possession of a friend and 7mm NGA member.? BUT this was, I
gather, one of just two test etches and has never been released.? If
anyone can track? down its heritage then the possibility remains!!
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
From what I have seen and heard, a lot of etchings that have been done in
the past, they have tried to use too thick of a material which means it is very
hard to get folds correct, all of the etching I do is designed to use .4mm.
brass sheet, sometimes after spending countless hours designing the artwork, the
first test etch will reveal some problems, mainly because I got mixed up with
which side some fold points had to be on. Take a look at the photos of a 91
Class SAR loco I am building, and study the steps, one photos shows both sides
of the steps as etched and also what the steps look like after being folded, all
one piece each.
<>
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
Very true.
Producing a working CAD drawing that can be turned in
to a pattern or an etch takes a bit of doing for 3D parts you need to add
shrinkage factors these change depending on the material being used to cast the
item.
?
For etches you have to flatten the part add bending
lines which change depending on thickness of material and the level of
distortion you need.
?
I have lost count of the number of etches I have
ditched and started again with.
And if you want to just produce a 3D
print all parts have interlock or be drawn from a solid as if it's just touching
and unioned the printer will see two parts not one.
?
I produced our first kit in 1999 and I'm still
getting things wrong on test etches and you would never know until you build the
prototype.
Marc
?
Colin,
I think
you'll find a major difference between a drawing of a loco even in CAD and
what is needed for an etched kit. The 7mm Narrow Gauge Association has books
of drawings but most predate home CAD systems and were probably done
originally by someone to scratch build a model. A lot of the ones published in
NG&IRMR are proper works drawings. Both sources need treating with care,
in the former case one doesn't know how much information the draughtsman had
and in the latter you need to watch what was actually built as opposed to what
was designed. All of course, thanks to someone's, efforts far better than
nothing at all.
Nothing like
publishing anything for some further information to crawl out of the woodwork
and make a fool of you.
Frank
?
I
might be wrong in thinking this, but for me an 014 loco kit will need to have
weight, I would guess that if I had a half decent computer and the Auto Cad
programme I would have a go at producing 7mm drawings to make up brass etched
kits and to also make the masters for the 3D Cad castings as
well.
I
think 014 has a lot going for it, and if I had the space then I would consider
building a model in this size, One thing which I am surprised with and that is
the lack of narrow gauge loco and rolling stock Cad drawings which are
available (you watch, some one will come on here now and tell me where I can
find them), but why stop there? as you are half way to getting an etch of that
item done.
May
be it is just me getting older and trying to cope with all this new
technology.
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 12:20
PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher
Saga
There was a kit actually for the Darjeeling
Garratt in 7mm scale and I have seen the etchings and resin castings, now in
the possession of a friend and 7mm NGA member.? BUT this was, I gather,
one of just two test etches and has never been released.? If anyone can
track? down its heritage then the possibility remains!!
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
Very true.
Producing a working CAD drawing that can be turned in to a pattern or an etch takes a bit of doing for 3D parts you need to add shrinkage factors these change depending on the material being used to cast the item.?
For etches you have to flatten the part add bending lines which change depending on thickness of material and the level of distortion you need.?
I have lost count of the number of etches I have ditched and started again with.?
And if you want to just produce a 3D print all parts have interlock or be drawn from a solid as if it's just touching and unioned the printer will see two parts not one.
I produced our first kit in 1999 and I'm still getting things wrong on test etches and you would never know until you build the prototype.
Marc?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
Colin,
?
I think you'll find a major difference between a drawing of a loco even in CAD and what is needed for an etched kit. The 7mm Narrow Gauge Association has books of drawings but most predate home
CAD systems and were probably done originally by someone to scratch build a model. A lot of the ones published in NG&IRMR are proper works drawings. Both sources need treating with care, in the former case one doesn't know how much information the draughtsman
had and in the latter you need to watch what was actually built as opposed to what was designed. All of course, thanks to someone's, efforts far better than nothing at all.
?
Nothing like publishing anything for some further information to crawl out of the woodwork and make a fool of you.
?
Frank
?
?
?
I might be wrong in thinking this, but for me an 014 loco kit will need to have weight, I would guess that if I had a half decent computer and the Auto Cad programme I would have a
go at producing 7mm drawings to make up brass etched kits and to also make the masters for the 3D Cad?castings as well.
I think 014 has a lot going for it, and if I had the space then I would consider building a model in this size, One thing which I am surprised with and that is?the lack of?narrow gauge
loco and rolling stock?Cad drawings which are available (you watch, some one will come on here now and tell me where I can find them), but why stop there??as you are half way to getting an etch of that item done.
May be it is just me getting older and trying to cope with all this new technology.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
There was a kit actually for the Darjeeling Garratt in 7mm scale?and I have seen the etchings and resin castings, now in the possession of a friend and 7mm NGA member. ?BUT this was, I gather, one of just two test etches and has
never been released. ?If anyone can track ?down its heritage then the possibility remains!!?
?
|
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
Colin, ? I think you'll find a major difference between a drawing of a loco even in CAD and what is needed for an etched kit. The 7mm Narrow Gauge Association has books of drawings but most predate home CAD systems and were probably done originally by someone to scratch build a model. A lot of the ones published in NG&IRMR are proper works drawings. Both sources need treating with care, in the former case one doesn't know how much information the draughtsman had and in the latter you need to watch what was actually built as opposed to what was designed. All of course, thanks to someone's, efforts far better than nothing at all. ? Nothing like publishing anything for some further information to crawl out of the woodwork and make a fool of you. ? Frank ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: O14@... [mailto:O14@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 October, 2016 14:57
To: O14@...
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga? ? I might be wrong in thinking this, but for me an 014 loco kit will need to have weight, I would guess that if I had a half decent computer and the Auto Cad programme I would have a go at producing 7mm drawings to make up brass etched kits and to also make the masters for the 3D Cad?castings as well. I think 014 has a lot going for it, and if I had the space then I would consider building a model in this size, One thing which I am surprised with and that is?the lack of?narrow gauge loco and rolling stock?Cad drawings which are available (you watch, some one will come on here now and tell me where I can find them), but why stop there??as you are half way to getting an etch of that item done. May be it is just me getting older and trying to cope with all this new technology. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga There was a kit actually for the Darjeeling Garratt in 7mm scale?and I have seen the etchings and resin castings, now in the possession of a friend and 7mm NGA member. ?BUT this was, I gather, one of just two test etches and has never been released. ?If anyone can track ?down its heritage then the possibility remains!!? ?
|
