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--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "threeneurons" <threeneurons@...> wrote:

I have a couple of those CA3162 chips on order. I'll play with them, to verify
my version.

Cool, please let me know if you indeed get it to work - after 10 days of tinkering with a similar circuit i gave up, and laid out the PCB for all those Chips...

The switcher Hans uses is the MKI version of the MC34063. Its of limited use.
Here's a schematic of my MK1.5 Version:



There are several improvements. (1) C1 in the feedback path adds stability to
the circuit. Its gets rid of what you call noise.

Ah cool - i'm no expert at SMPS's i'll admit that, so i just do what ever i can to make it work.

The FET drive is improved, so it now both actively pulls Up, and
Down, the signal applied to the power FETs gate. The old version
only pulls up, and has a passive pull down (a 330 ohm resistor).
This greatly improves efficiency. The old circuit could only
deliver ~10mA. The new circuit, is the one I sell on eBay, and can
easily deliver 45mA.

Cool - i'll try to make it asap and see how it works.

Finally, he probably used the IRF830, just because he had them in
his junk box. Its a crappy FET. Use the ones mention in the
schematic. Any of those is much better than the IRF830. The IRF740A
has been the standard used in this group. As important as voltage
and ON resistance, an important spec is the gate charge. Like the
ON resistance, it should be as low as possible. Its the Power
FETs 'dirty secret', since it means the impedance of gate goes
down, as frequency goes up. That means you need a circuit to drive
the FET, that can move current, exactly what they advertise a FET
doesn't need. High impedance at DC (zero hertz) means nothing other
than the marketing people just stroking themselves.

Ah yeah i see it now - if the gate capacitance is too high, switching losses go trough the roof, and the smps controller can't fully charge the gate in the on-period, and that messes with the circuit.

I just looked in my junk box, and the "best" i can come up with is IRF630, IRF640,IRFP560,IRFX32N500 etc.

I think the best one of them is the IRF630, as mentioned on your schematic too, but 200 volts are a little low - what will happen when the circuit hits the 200 volts ? Does the transistor go into saturation, or will it simply breakdown and short out ?

Another important component is of course the switching diode. In my test, i have been using an MUR1560, it seems that it does the job quite nicely - but are a little on the big side, mechanically. I guess the same appiles here - faster diode equals lower losses, and hence lower heat.

// Per.

"ian_6500" <ianmartinphotography@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Can anyone point me to a circuit diagram and/or a controller
chip that will let me build a clock that chimes on the hour?
(One chime for 1 o'clock, three chimes for 3 o'clock, etc.)
I was thinking of using a solenoid to ping a piece of metal
or energy chime... Thanks!

Some of my links:

Drawings and binary (.HEX) code of my third nixie clock (with dekatron):



Drawings and binary (.HEX) code of my one dekatron clock:



You need to have some Atmel tools, like the AVRisp (~$35US, or equivalent), or the AVR SDK (pricy-er) to burn the code into the respective AVR uCs, to use it. Also AVRStudio (or similar) loaded on your computer, to control the AVR device.

If you look at sheet 2 of 2, of the one dekatron clock schematic, that's an analog 'ding' generator. There are two versions '12' & '12a'. It makes a nice decaying ding, instead of boring constant tone. But if you manage to get your hands on a solenoid driven gong, such as a telephone ringer, you can still use these clock circuits.

Just use the signal labeled 'ramp'. It pulses on the hour, 'n' times. 'n' being the hour, once for 1 o'clock, 12 times for 12 o'clock, and so on. The pulses are 50mS in duration, and spaced 2 seconds apart. Just note that a telephone ringer was designed to see roughly 90VAC, so you'll need a high voltage to drive it. Fortunately, this is the nixie group, and its probably a nixie clock, so you'll probably have 180V on hand. You may want to add a resistor and a capacitor to the circuit. Say a 10uf/250V cap across the (+) side of the ringer and the other side (of the cap) to gnd. The (-) side of the ringer to a transistor (MPSA42) on to its collector. Emitter to Gnd. Base thru a 10K resistor to the 'ramp' signal. Tie the (+) of the ringer (and cap) to the 180V, thru a 22K resistor. If you don't the ringer may drag down the nixie supply. The 10uf cap should give you enough charge to get a good ding.

All right, all right, NOT the best wording choice for a message title! :)


I'm referring to the use of miniature neon bulbs and such for the purpose of creating a colon SIGN (:) to separate the pairs of tubes corresponding to hours, minutes and seconds on our clocks.

After a few years (yeah, that bad), I'm finally coming to terms into finishing the case for my first clock, Tubehobby's IN-18 kit. Inasmuch as I like shiny metal cases best, I realized that a clock without a case is a sad clock, and worse than having a clock with a less-than perfect case is not having a clock at all. So, for the time being, I settled for a wooden box.

Now, I like every aspect from the Tubehobby kit, except that, in my opinion, they left little phisical space between the pairs of tubes, to the extent that an onlooker may have the impression that it is not a clock but some kind of seconds counter. So... colon signs would alleviate that problem.

What are the best bulbs to be squeezed in that position? I've heard of people removing small neon bulbs from old-timey camera flashes, but I'd have to find four identical flashes to draw from.

I've also seen pictures of inverted small "laboratory tubes" or other types of assemblies being used to hold the bulbs in place.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, also from other Tubehobby kit owners.

Cheers,

Marco

"per.zapro" <per.zapro@...> wrote:

Yep. I breadborded the circuit to death before
going with Hans' schematic all the way. I simply could
not get it to work! - I had problems with ghosting,
strange noise issues and so on...

Wiring up his schematic works wonderfull, and gives me
stable readout, and no flickering.

You can see the outcome here:

I just need to make a board like this for the Amp section
and then a power supply.

At the moment i tried making the exact power supply with
the MC34063A switcher, but i have problems with noise. ...

// Per.

I have a couple of those CA3162 chips on order. I'll play with them, to verify my version.

The switcher Hans uses is the MKI version of the MC34063. Its of limited use. Here's a schematic of my MK1.5 Version:



There are several improvements. (1) C1 in the feedback path adds stability to the circuit. Its gets rid of what you call noise.

The FET drive is improved, so it now both actively pulls Up, and Down, the signal applied to the power FETs gate. The old version only pulls up, and has a passive pull down (a 330 ohm resistor). This greatly improves efficiency. The old circuit could only deliver ~10mA. The new circuit, is the one I sell on eBay, and can easily deliver 45mA.

Finally, he probably used the IRF830, just because he had them in his junk box. Its a crappy FET. Use the ones mention in the schematic. Any of those is much better than the IRF830. The IRF740A has been the standard used in this group. As important as voltage and ON resistance, an important spec is the gate charge. Like the ON resistance, it should be as low as possible. Its the Power FETs 'dirty secret', since it means the impedance of gate goes down, as frequency goes up. That means you need a circuit to drive the FET, that can move current, exactly what they advertise a FET doesn't need. High impedance at DC (zero hertz) means nothing other than the marketing people just stroking themselves.

"per.zapro" <per.zapro@...> wrote:

"threeneurons" <threeneurons@> wrote:
Here's a drawing of my last rant:

Care to explain what that 1K resistor i circled in red, does ???

// Per.

You mean the 1K off the 470 ohm. Its part of a divider, so the base of all the transistors (tied to it) see ~3.4V. I pick a voltage somewhere between Vcc (5V) and Gnd because I don't know how far the outputs swing. If the chip is CMOS, I don't need to worry, because it will swing far 0 to 5V, as long as its not loaded down too much. If its bipolar, then it may not go up all the way to +5V. Look at the specs for any real TTL chip (74xx, 74S, 74LS,). Same goes for NMOS. They are really asymmetrical. The datasheet only mentions the BCD outputs, but doesn't give specs on the 'digit drive' (MSD, NSD, LSD) outputs.

If you want a pretty sound, you may consider a chime rod like they use in
older (and some newer) clocks. www.timesavers.com has a fair selection and
hammers as well. Here is a direct link to the page in their catalog.



-joe

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 3:21 PM, gnuvvekaavaali
<gnuvvekaavaali@...>wrote:

--- In NEONIXIE-L@... <NEONIXIE-L%40yahoogroups.com>,
"ian_6500" <ianmartinphotography@...> wrote:

Can anyone point me to a circuit diagram and/or a controller chip that
will let me build a clock that chimes on the hour? (One chime for 1 o'clock,
three chimes for 3 o'clock, etc.) I was thinking of using a solenoid to ping
a piece of metal or energy chime... Thanks!

There are chine/ding dong ICs -SAE800, SAB0600. M602

There is also an alarm accessory to Raymond Weisling's
Geekclock which has a Chime circuit -

Hi,
the "GAM module" from Raymond Weisling is waiting for the IC to be finished,
spoke to him via email about 3 weeks ago, I got the four letter word clock
& GeekKlok from him about 6 months ago, just waiting on the IC to finish
the alarm side of it.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There are chine/ding dong ICs -SAE800, SAB0600. M602

There is also an alarm accessory to Raymond Weisling's
Geekclock which has a Chime circuit -

The CD47 is a freak of nature! I sure do want one (better yet, 6)! I've always
had a thing for freaks :).

-joe

On Monday 30 August 2010 05:01:05 jensboos wrote:

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., Dmitri Vorobiev <dmitri.vorobiev@...>

wrote:

Just out of curiosity: what kind of a Nixie would be drawing 20mA
without a risk of being destroyed?

The CD47 for instance:


Anyway, a larger current can also be required when "depoisoning" cathodes.

______


I was thinking of paralleling the two MHV's with diodes.. But I am not sure
if this will work.

Jens



------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links

Good to know I am not the only one. (It has been bugging me for years)

PS. Doesn't the B-7971 take 21ma?

Michail

It's what I am also looking for. Preferrably in discrete components, even relay's.
I think about two sound sources: A chime, what you can find easyly on eBay searching for clock parts. They there also offer chime hammers.
There are several options: A bell, a spring gong and a metal rod are offered most frequently. Brass bells sound the best. You can get bells also from doorbells, I have even found one in glass!!
What about the inerts of a cukoo clock?
An other idea, I want to use is a small electrically driven music box that pays just before the chime. Google is your friend.

You see, there is much space to vent your creativiyy!

For me at the moment the electronic/logic part is the greatest problem.

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., Dmitri Vorobiev <dmitri.vorobiev@...> wrote:

Just out of curiosity: what kind of a Nixie would be drawing 20mA
without a risk of being destroyed?

The CD47 for instance:

Anyway, a larger current can also be required when "depoisoning" cathodes.

______


I was thinking of paralleling the two MHV's with diodes.. But I am not sure if this will work.

Jens

I would like to have 300V @20mA peak at my disposal for *one* Nixie tube.

Just out of curiosity: what kind of a Nixie would be drawing 20mA
without a risk of being destroyed?

Thanks,
Dmitri

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "Brian Stuckey" <brian@...> wrote:

I just found more NEO-8000 looking display but this one has neither the support columns nor the little circle at the top left corner of the tube. The pins are a slightly different shape and there are no markings of any kind on the tube. Oddly, this one is transparent too. It is in pretty bad shape but I'll clean it up and post photos in the next day or so.

Here is the other NEO 8000 I have. This one is significantly different: translucent background, different internal configuration...and it is in really poor condition:

Photos:


Video:

I just came across some old info in my files that Matsushita made equivalents of the NEO-5000 and NEO-8000, their part numbers S6135 (50 mm digit height) and S6136 (85 mm digit height) respectively. Perhaps this is what you have.

A.J.

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 8:52 PM, ian_6500 <ianmartinphotography@...>wrote:

Can anyone point me to a circuit diagram and/or a controller chip that will
let me build a clock that chimes on the hour? (One chime for 1 o'clock,
three chimes for 3 o'clock, etc.) I was thinking of using a solenoid to ping
a piece of metal or energy chime... Thanks!

Using a physical bell sounds like a lot more fun. If you can find one with a
tone that you like, I'd imagine that an old telephone would be a perfect
source for a ready to go bell / striker, and I'd imagine that you could
change the chime with a little ambition.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

NEONIXIE-L/photos/album/1114661270/pic/list >

While we're on the subject, does anyone have a good "filmstrip" clock display to add to the album? How about a vertical split-flap readout (I've seen them used in "Take a Number" display units)? Any other mechanical display styles? I know David "Westdave" Weiner has some odd rotary numeric units with the rotors on a *vertical* axis, as opposed to the horizontal style used in pinball machines.

A.J.

I have a filmstrip clock, I'll upload the image.

Terry

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., Tom Harris <celephicus@...> wrote:

Does this forum cater for magflip displays?

Sure. We have some photos of a small flip-segment unit, some split-flap displays, and several rotary pinball scorewheels in
Photos > NonNixieDisp/Electromech

< >

While we're on the subject, does anyone have a good "filmstrip" clock display to add to the album? How about a vertical split-flap readout (I've seen them used in "Take a Number" display units)? Any other mechanical display styles? I know David "Westdave" Weiner has some odd rotary numeric units with the rotors on a *vertical* axis, as opposed to the horizontal style used in pinball machines.

A.J.

Oh, I see.? What about just putting the outputs from each through a diode and say a .05 ohm resistor to balance the load and isolate one supply from the other?