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From: NEONIXIE-L@... [mailto:NEONIXIE-L@...] On
Behalf Of Mike Harpe
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 9:02 AM
To: neonixie-l@...
Subject: [NEONIXIE-L] "Projection" displays





I am interested in learning more about the so-called "projection"
displays that were used in a lot of 1970s industrial rack-mount type
clocks.

Does anyone on here have a reference or source for them?

Thanks!

Mike Harpe
Sellersburg, IN USA

--
Please note my new email address:
mike@... <mailto:mike%40mikeharpe.com>

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "James" <jamesrsweet@...> wrote:

...There are lies, there are damn lies, there are statistics, there are used
car and real estate sales talk and there are even politicians' promises; and
last on that list are what you might see on a digital scope...

I have both an analog scope (Tek 465) and a DSO (Bitscope) and they both have advantages and disadvantages. I like the "real" aspect of the analog scope. The CRT responds in real time to whatever is on the input. On the other hand, the DSO is able to capture a portion of a complex waveform where it can then be studied in detail. I tend to use the analog scope when I'm first poking around, and the digital scope when I want a close look at something like a serial data stream or transient event.

The answer to that?
Why! A Tek 464 / 466 of course! I know Storage CRTs have pitfalls of their own, the least of them being that the tubes are made of an unobtanium isotope, but that what even quantities were made for! (I have 2, and specifically bought that model as many in the group have confessed, out of the "first love" experience).
I have also worked with DSOs in the past, old ones but DSOs anyway and not toys. They do allow detailed analysis, plus have some other functions that analog scopes don't even dream to have.
But similar things go together so for the digital realm, DSOs seem to be good, however if I suspect a d*rned fast glitch in a digital bus, I won't change my analog scope for anything in the world. After all, at today's switching speeds, square waves simply don't exist.

I am interested in learning more about the so-called "projection"
displays that were used in a lot of 1970s industrial rack-mount type
clocks.

Does anyone on here have a reference or source for them?

Thanks!

Mike Harpe
Sellersburg, IN USA

--
Please note my new email address:
mike@...

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. In the 70's when this tube was first used as a clock display only TTL logic chips were available and a 7 segment number display was the norm even for LEDs. I personally find the 7 segment look to be clean, simple and very retro. The other number permutations utilizing the additional segments seem strange and unfamiliar. To each his/her own I guess.

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "jensboos" <neuss.boos@...> wrote:

Oh what a neat gimmick! Thanks for pointing it out. But I would never
include this on every page of a website, but it has to be done in order
that all visits are counted, am I correct? That is a little sad. ;-)
Hmm, maybe I will start a visitor's center or something like that on my
website and include the globe there.

I only have it on two pages - every page has Google Analytics, so the main info I get from that. The map is really just a bit of fun.

Does anyone know how much memory and bandwidth this little friend
consumes?

Doesn't seem to bad on my PC (but I have an i5-750 cpu now) - about 3% CPU and almost no bandwidth according to task manager.

Nick

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "fixitsan2" <fixitsan@...> wrote:

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "yellow74ghia" <mjrippe@> wrote:

Just saw this on Hack a Day. Haven't even read the writeup yet but knew it would make some folks happy here!

It had to get done, so it gone done !
It is *very* smart.

It may be smart-looking, but algorithmically its somewhat crude - the solver seems to use a tree-walk/brute force attack, which lacks subtlety... it shouldn't have to make guesses.

Nick

Does anyone know where I can source these.

They can drive six B7971 Nixies directly, 12 hour with lead zero blank, brightness control, date, enable
Just add HV power supply at 170v and you are good to go.

Data sheet uploaed to files section.

If it solved it instantly, it wouldn't be fun to watch.

I would be happy with one that just did random numbers. If someone
asked, "What does it do?" You can honestly say, "To make people ask questions."
or "Calculating the meaning of life"

Michail

I try to avoid for sale posts here, but I still have a couple extra of the PCBs for this that I need to unload. They are version 1.1 pcbs, professionally made double sided with plated through holes and solder mask. $25 shipped anywhere in the world, that's pretty close to my cost.

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "yellow74ghia" <mjrippe@...> wrote:

Just saw this on Hack a Day. Haven't even read the writeup yet but knew it would make some folks happy here!

It had to get done, so it gone done !
It is *very* smart.

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "Nick" nick@ wrote:
Yeh. Off topic and all that, but good fun (in a geeky way).

You can get a free rotating globe hit map for your web site - see my

page at for an
example. You can drag & spin the globe, and click on it for more detail.
Google Analytics give some of that info, but not in real-time.

The people behind it are .

Quite cute, I thought...

Nick

Oh what a neat gimmick! Thanks for pointing it out. But I would never
include this on every page of a website, but it has to be done in order
that all visits are counted, am I correct? That is a little sad. ;-)
Hmm, maybe I will start a visitor's center or something like that on my
website and include the globe there.

Does anyone know how much memory and bandwidth this little friend
consumes?

All the best,
Jens

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "The Fool" <unmitigated_fool@...> wrote:

SUCCESS!! I now have a spinning dekatron!

Ain't no feeling like it !

Jon.

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "DanielK" <DKuriloff@...> wrote:

Can I use a MM5375 clock IC with six B7971 Nixies and a www.tayloredge.com/ HV power supply?

Don't waste your time. The B7971 is a 14 segment tube with a really unique look. When run from a 7 segment driver the result is *UUUGLY*.

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "Morris Odell" <vilgotch@...> wrote:

Nick said:

I'll always vote for an analogue 'scope - never know what you're missing

otherwise...

As it happened I was speaking to an engineer a few months ago about vintage
display devices (of which more in a later post) and the subject of digital
scopes came up. He said :

...There are lies, there are damn lies, there are statistics, there are used
car and real estate sales talk and there are even politicians' promises; and
last on that list are what you might see on a digital scope...

(or words to that effect).

As a long time Tektronix analogue scope user, it was music to my ears.

Morris

I have both an analog scope (Tek 465) and a DSO (Bitscope) and they both have advantages and disadvantages. I like the "real" aspect of the analog scope. The CRT responds in real time to whatever is on the input. On the other hand, the DSO is able to capture a portion of a complex waveform where it can then be studied in detail. I tend to use the analog scope when I'm first poking around, and the digital scope when I want a close look at something like a serial data stream or transient event.

SUCCESS!! I now have a spinning dekatron!

As usual it was loose nut on the user end of the soldering iron.

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "bender2114" <bender2114@...> wrote:

Many good debugging suggestion. !

Dear All,

Is there by any change the possibility to get information on the IC, type MM5458.
Long time ago stripped from a digital clock, but that's it.
National Semiconductor logo.
Further marking: +B8436
Most likely an OEM chip.
I should like to "connect" to ZM1030 tubes
Yahoo, Google and the like don't give any further information.

Regards,

Ben Puylaert
The Netherlands

Neat. I visited your page once again and was able to turn the globe upside down. Now the world turns backwards and I'm afraid my simple gesture could cause worldwide mayhem and flooding! :O

Marco

Yeh. Off topic and all that, but good fun (in a geeky way).

You can get a free rotating globe hit map for your web site - see my page at for an example. You can drag & spin the globe, and click on it for more detail. Google Analytics give some of that info, but not in real-time.

The people behind it are .

Quite cute, I thought...

Nick

Does the buzzer make any noise when you turn it on? If it does, you can test each guide channel by setting the kit to a low speed (the buzzer will click in time to the guide pulses) and connecting an OG4 directly between the anode lug and one of the guide lugs on the main board. Connect the anode lug to pin 3 of the OG-4 and one of the guides to pin 6. If the dekatron blinks on and off in time to the clicks from the buzzer, it means that guide is working properly. If all the guides are working, it means there is a setting problem with the potentiometer R6, or the plugboard is not set set right or has loose connections or cold solder joints. If one of the guides is not working and the three red jumpers are installed on the external pulse interface, it probably means that one of the transistors to the right of the microcontroller is bad. (Note, the third guide will not do anything unless the kit has been set to 3 guide mode! This should not matter for OG-4 dekatrons.)

If the buzzer does not make any noise, or makes a single 'click' sound when you turn it on, try turning on the kit while holding down the Guide button to reset the memory. If the kit makes one 'click' sound when powered up but holding down the Guide button does not do anything, check the continuity of the Guide button, it may have been overheated when soldering. If the kit does not make a single 'click' when powered up, use a voltmeter to test the voltage between the +5 and GND test points next to the buzzer. If you measure five volts here, the microcontroller is probably bad; contact me off list. If you measure zero volts here, it means there is a short or cold solder joint somewhere near the regulator, or possibly that the regulator is bad.

If none of the above works, contact me off list and I will arrange for repair or replacement.

Richard Kline
www.decadecounter.com

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "jonellis32" <jon@...> wrote:

Which tube are you trying to spin? Something pretty vanilla (4kHz neon) or is it more exotic? Does the tube start to step and then stick, or does it never move? Are you trying to spin the tube too fast?

I've tried 3 different OG-4 tubes so far. They light up two cathodes and never move. I've been trying to adjust the configuration jumper pins to get better connections. I think that's my problem but haven't had time to measure the voltages at the tube pins yet. I'm guessing that one of the two guide signals isn't making it to the tube.