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--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "Terry" <terry+yg@...> wrote:

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "figureloop" <crobc@> wrote:

What are you planning to do with them? I am working on a 12 IV-17 PCB and somewhat universal VFD driver that will be done soon (hopefully, but I keep wasting time on the internet).

I plan on (eventually) producing clock kits and assembled clocks. Since these tubes are a lot less expensive than nixies (and are alpha-numeric) I think they'll be popular.

Do you have a www? I don't right now, but will probably get one going again within the next year.

(general stuff)
(my race car, which keeps me away from electronics)

Interesting.

(work - not much there that's visible to the public)

That's encouraging for a numitron. I have been thinking about how I might make a constant current driver, but for each segment that's a lot of parts and work! Apparently filament life is inversely proportional to volts to the fourth power, so a large change in lifetime can be afforded by just a slight moderation in voltage.

Take a look at the Allegro A6278/9 parts. Quickly - the A6278's are pre-eol and one of the A6279's is last-time buy. I believe in using dedicated drivers (like the Supertex on Nixies) - it frees me up to play with the cool stuff in software and not have to worry about a program error burning out a tube or more.

I just bought 240 Supertex HV5812 since the A6812 was in last time buy status. I doubt I'll plan on any quantity production of Numitron clocks (ugh, the last thing I need is more ideas!), so if anything I may look at a higher voltage driver for Nixies. My first clock design just used MPSA42 transistors and 'HC595s.

About the processor screwing the tubes, this is an interesting design issue that I will be grappling with in my VFD driver. I wanted to accomplish a biased AC filament drive, with no magnetics. So I have a drive scheme that will start out being guided by a microcontroller PWM output. If the PWM duty gets set too high, then it is pretty bad--it could take out all the VFD filaments! But if the PWM output simply locks up, then it is no problem since the power drive is AC coupled.

For a final design I'll probably make a dedicated PWM circuit not dependent on the uC, but then again, having the uC do it makes it possible to gently ramp the filament drive.

A tradeoff might be to just ensure that the supply voltage for the filament power circuit is such that close to full duty % is needed to power the filaments in the first place. Then a little bit of overdrive caused by a development error won't be catastrophic. I think that once a piece of software is ready for prime time, it's possible to place high confidence that it will control power electronics without faults. This is the direction things are going these days.

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Kevin B <hedon_man@...> wrote:

--- On Fri, 8/13/10, DanielK <kuriloff@...> wrote:
-snippd by kb-
How can I specifically use the Neonixie 6 Digit Controller to dim the 6
LEDS and what driver transistor should I use? What base resistor? WIll this
sink or source too much curretn from the microcontroller? Current sourced or
sinked from outputs should not exceed 15ma per pin.

I need help to pull this off with Moses' microcontroller.
---

A couple of questions first:
1. Is Moses' microcontroller running off 5V or 3.3V?
2. Does your microcontroller have a spare PWM output pin or perhaps an
interrupt driven timer/counter?
3. Are your LEDs all the same color? What is/are the color(s)?
4. Are your LEDs high/medium/low effeciency (mcd @ 10mA)?
5. Are you currently dimming your Nixies with Moses' microcontroller? Is
it based on ambient light?

1. Is Moses' microcontroller running off 5V or 3.3V? Running off of 5
volts (regulated)

2. Does your microcontroller have a spare PWM output pin or perhaps an
interrupt driven timer/counter?

It has what Moses calls Option #53: Digit Blanking Method.

Controls the digit blanking method and blanking output pin (#27). See
assembly instructions for details.

NOTE: This option refers to the logic levels used to BLANK (or turn off) the
display.

- 1: BCD all high, BLANK pin high

- 2: BCD all high, BLANK pin low (default)

- 3: BCD all low, BLANK pin high

- 4: BCD all low, BLANK pin low


*DIGIT BLANKING*

*By default the controller 慴lanks� digits by outputting all ones on the BCD
lines. Blanking is required for PWM dimming,*

*leading zero blanking and cross-fading to work properly. This default
setting works well with 74141 Nixie Driver ICs, but*

*if you are using other display drivers you might want to review the Digit
Blanking option (#53). For example if you are*

*using the controller as a simple LED binary clock, you would want to set
this option to either 3 or 4. This will result in a*

*low output on the BCD lines during dimming, correct for individual LEDs. A
separate blanking output pin is also*

*provided (pin 27), which can be used for dimming display drivers with
separate blanking inputs. It can be set for low or*

*high blanking.*

*NOTE: If using the blanking output pin of the controller wired to all the
displays, the clock will not cross-fade or blank a*

*leading zero properly since each digit needs its own blanking output. A
simple solution is to hook up a NAND gate (for*

*drivers with low blanking inputs) or a AND gate (for drivers with high
blanking inputs) to the C and D connection of each*

*BCD output (with BCD blanking set to high). Run the output of the gate to
the digits blanking input. This works because*

*BCD C and D will only be high when the controller commands a blank digit.*

*NOTE: If you will be using the blanking pin, it is recommended to install a
3-way jumper in order to disconnect the*

*drivers from the blanking output and connect them to a logic level that
will result in an active display. This can be used in*

*case the digit blanking option is accidentally modified to blank the
display.*



3. Are your LEDs all the same color? What is/are the color(s)? All blue,
430 nm

4. Are your LEDs high/medium/low effeciency (mcd @ 10mA)?

2,000 mcd, rated current 20-3-mA, volt drop 3.3 v, power consumpt at 20 mA =
66mW

5. Are you currently dimming your Nixies with Moses' microcontroller? Is it
based on ambient light?

PWM dimming at timed start and stop intervals 20-100% user defined by
setting options.



Dan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., Kuriloff <kuriloff@...> wrote:

On Aug 13, 2010, at 9:52 PM, "A.J." <a.j.franzman@...> wrote:

There are now quite a few options available online, for switch-mode
direct-replacements for the 78xx regulators, with the same pinout
and only slightly larger packages.

Where can I purchase such a 5 v switcher?

A.J.

Major thing I just noticed.....
All my tubes have always had the CCCP logo on the back.

Hi,

As I used to leave in the USSR for a while ;-), there is my knowledge about product quality in the USSR:

CCCP on the item only means Made in the USSR, but if it's inside pentagon shape sign called Sign of quality, then it's almost the best USSR quality product. This sign picture you can see here:

OTK is equals QC (Quality check/control) and virtually all products must have it, but not nessesary it should be seen on the item. It could be in the item passport or User Manual/ datasheet.

Another quality check is the military one. The item, which has passed military check has the highest quality and items/components for military devises could be selected from hundreds or thousands item stock. The problem is that they usually does not have any specific sign, sometimes these items stamped with 2 Russian letters "脗脧"

I hope it helps.

Best regards, Konstantin
www.kosbo.com

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "figureloop" <crobc@...> wrote:

What are you planning to do with them? I am working on a 12 IV-17 PCB and somewhat universal VFD driver that will be done soon (hopefully, but I keep wasting time on the internet).

I plan on (eventually) producing clock kits and assembled clocks. Since these tubes are a lot less expensive than nixies (and are alpha-numeric) I think they'll be popular.

Do you have a www? I don't right now, but will probably get one going again within the next year.

(general stuff)
(my race car, which keeps me away from electronics)
(work - not much there that's visible to the public)

That's encouraging for a numitron. I have been thinking about how I might make a constant current driver, but for each segment that's a lot of parts and work! Apparently filament life is inversely proportional to volts to the fourth power, so a large change in lifetime can be afforded by just a slight moderation in voltage.

Take a look at the Allegro A6278/9 parts. Quickly - the A6278's are pre-eol and one of the A6279's is last-time buy. I believe in using dedicated drivers (like the Supertex on Nixies) - it frees me up to play with the cool stuff in software and not have to worry about a program error burning out a tube or more.

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., Charles MacDonald <cmacd@...> wrote:

The CCCP stamp seems to indicates some sort of Standards approval, I
have seen it on some "Leningrad" Light meters.

I think you mean the "OTK ##" stamp. I've jokingly told other tube collectors that that means "nobody from the factory faced a firing squad this week". Given some of the quality variations I've seen, I don't think it means the tubes were each inspected.

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "Terry" <terry+yg@...> wrote:

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "figureloop" <crobc@> wrote:

Did you buy those from Sphere's? Their Russian stuff is overpriced. I made the mistake of buying some IV-22 (for $12/ea!) from Sphere. I thought they were something special until I discovered all the Russian stuff being liquidated on Ebay. I only buy stuff that is truly only available from Sphere's now.

No, I picked up a couple large batches on eBay and some others from a private seller I found. My average price for the thousand or so I got was 57 cents each.

What are you planning to do with them? I am working on a 12 IV-17 PCB and somewhat universal VFD driver that will be done soon (hopefully, but I keep wasting time on the internet).

I have enough tubes to sell a few boards with tubes, then keep a few for my own amusement. I figure I'll make the boards available bare if people like them, once I run low on IV-17 tubes.

Do you have a www? I don't right now, but will probably get one going again within the next year.

That is a great price. Now I have a dillemma. The IV-9 has mediocre Russian quality, whereas the western made stuff is really quite precise. The Nocrotec clock, for instance, is truly beautiful.

But the price to get two sets of western tubes is 10x the price of the Russians'. Ugh!

I've had a dozen or so IV-9's running continually (including the decimal points) for 14 months now and there's no appreciable dimming and no segments have burned out.

That's encouraging for a numitron. I have been thinking about how I might make a constant current driver, but for each segment that's a lot of parts and work! Apparently filament life is inversely proportional to volts to the fourth power, so a large change in lifetime can be afforded by just a slight moderation in voltage.

I expect that the lifetimes of the Russian parts (including VFD's and the Nixies with mercury added) are vastly underestimated in the published data sheets. Someone on this list (or was it the smartsocket list?) did an accelerated-aging test on the IV-4 (datasheet lifetime: 1000 hours) and found no discernable difference in brightness. The IV-17 is the same part as the IV-4, but with a longer rated lifetime.

I hope that's the case for all Russian VFD's, as I have a bunch of the 猫毛枚I_1/7's (I have no idea if the Cyrillic will make it into this message in one piece - I believe that's ILTSI-1/7 in English) which are 5.5" tall single-digit 7-segment VFD tubes. The datasheet says "To be determined" for useful service life.

Well I hope the VFDs last as well!

Good day!

No, his tube has the OTK stamp.

It does not have the CCCP stamp.

I have not been able to find a difference in used vs new tubes. The only
difference I see in his is that his tubes do not have the CCCP stamp.

Quote from another....
Actually, OTK means Quality Control Departments. Such mark has a personal
number of the worker who tested the tube, and found it is within specs. If
later discovered that the product is out of specs OTK manager knows who is
guilty, by the personal number that belongs to the tester.

It does not mean "Highest Quality". It means, "Tested by Worker Number
###" -- the way to force workers to test actually, being afraid to loose bonus
that is a significant part of a salary.

On 10-08-13 11:59 PM, michail1@... wrote:

What is the meaning of CCCP?

Russian for Union of Soviet Socialist republics (SSSR)

The CCCP stamp seems to indicates some sort of Standards approval, I have seen it on some "Leningrad" Light meters.

--
Charles MacDonald Stittsville Ontario
cmacd@... Just Beyond the Fringe

No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail.

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "figureloop" <crobc@...> wrote:

Did you buy those from Sphere's? Their Russian stuff is overpriced. I made the mistake of buying some IV-22 (for $12/ea!) from Sphere. I thought they were something special until I discovered all the Russian stuff being liquidated on Ebay. I only buy stuff that is truly only available from Sphere's now.

No, I picked up a couple large batches on eBay and some others from a private seller I found. My average price for the thousand or so I got was 57 cents each.

That is a great price. Now I have a dillemma. The IV-9 has mediocre Russian quality, whereas the western made stuff is really quite precise. The Nocrotec clock, for instance, is truly beautiful.

But the price to get two sets of western tubes is 10x the price of the Russians'. Ugh!

I've had a dozen or so IV-9's running continually (including the decimal points) for 14 months now and there's no appreciable dimming and no segments have burned out.

I expect that the lifetimes of the Russian parts (including VFD's and the Nixies with mercury added) are vastly underestimated in the published data sheets. Someone on this list (or was it the smartsocket list?) did an accelerated-aging test on the IV-4 (datasheet lifetime: 1000 hours) and found no discernable difference in brightness. The IV-17 is the same part as the IV-4, but with a longer rated lifetime.

I hope that's the case for all Russian VFD's, as I have a bunch of the 猫毛枚I_1/7's (I have no idea if the Cyrillic will make it into this message in one piece - I believe that's ILTSI-1/7 in English) which are 5.5" tall single-digit 7-segment VFD tubes. The datasheet says "To be determined" for useful service life.

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., michail1@... wrote:

_
()

Do you notice a difference between the ones with and without the CCCP
stamp?

Michail

Nothing of significance. The melding of the tube base to the envelope on the CCCP ones is gray, while the others are transparent. But every aspect of the internal construction is the same, except for very slight differences in texture and color of some materials.

[edited by A.J. - please trim quoted material]
On Aug 13, 2010, at 9:52 PM, "A.J." <a.j.franzman@...> wrote:

There are now quite a few options available online, for switch-mode
direct-replacements for the 78xx regulators, with the same pinout
and only slightly larger packages.

AJ~

Where can I purchase such a 5 v switcher?


Sent from iPhone off & running

On 8/13/10 8:41 PM, figureloop wrote:

I have half of my tubes with CCCP and half without.

What is the meaning of CCCP?

CCCP is Russian for USSR.


--
David Forbes, Tucson AZ

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., michail1@... wrote:

Just noticed your link changed in your post. It is supposed to be a T at
the end, instead of a slash T.

Major thing I just noticed.....
All my tubes have always had the CCCP logo on the back.

Your tube(s) does not.

Michail Wilson
206-920-6312

Thanks for the input, Michail.

I have half of my tubes with CCCP and half without.

What is the meaning of CCCP?

--- On Fri, 8/13/10, DanielK <kuriloff@...> wrote:
-snippd by kb-
How can I specifically use the Neonixie 6 Digit Controller to dim the 6 LEDS and what driver transistor should I use? What base resistor? WIll this sink or source too much curretn from the microcontroller? Current sourced or sinked from outputs should not exceed 15ma per pin.

I need help to pull this off with Moses' microcontroller.
---

A couple of questions first:
1. Is Moses' microcontroller running off 5V or 3.3V?
2. Does your microcontroller have a spare PWM output听pin or perhaps an interrupt driven timer/counter?
3. Are your LEDs all the same color?听 What is/are the color(s)?
4. Are your LEDs high/medium/low effeciency (mcd听@ 10mA)?
5. Are you currently dimming your Nixies with Moses' microcontroller?听 Is it based on ambient light?
听
...kevin

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "threeneurons" <threeneurons@...> wrote:

"figureloop" <crobc@> wrote:

I'm fascinated mainly by Nixies and CRTs, with VFDs in third.
... I seem to have recently gotten bitten by interest in
dekatrons.

I consider buying a handful of numitrons ... for the sake of
"completeness."

Good day!

Yes, getting into these ancient tubes tend to get you off into various tangents. To make you really spend more of your money, I see that you didn't mention magic eyes:



If you like CRTs and VFDs, then you're going to have to get a few of their magic eye cousins. Like nixies, dekatrons, VFDs, & numitrons, there are Russian versions available at fairly low cost. Or you can go crazy and try to get a 6T5, for a mere $500US, last I checked.

Thanks for the input.

I've been familiar with magic eyes for a long time. I acquired a capacitor tester with one as a kid, and sold it off a few years ago.

Compared to CRTs and numeric or alpha readouts, they just aren't useful enough.

But dekatrons are really looking interesting, and potentially useful as a 1/10 second spinner for a Nixie clock.

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "Terry" <terry+yg@...> wrote:

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "figureloop" <crobc@> wrote:

Anyone here want to fess up?

Wasn't me. I bought all the IV-17 VFD's 8-)

Did you buy those from Sphere's? Their Russian stuff is overpriced. I made the mistake of buying some IV-22 (for $12/ea!) from Sphere. I thought they were something special until I discovered all the Russian stuff being liquidated on Ebay. I only buy stuff that is truly only available from Sphere's now.

The IV-9 is a nice part and is available from $1.00 to $1.50 each depending on quantity. Oddly, the current eBay listings have the price per tube go UP as quantity increases 10/100/1000.

That is a great price. Now I have a dillemma. The IV-9 has mediocre Russian quality, whereas the western made stuff is really quite precise. The Nocrotec clock, for instance, is truly beautiful.

But the price to get two sets of western tubes is 10x the price of the Russians'. Ugh!

If you don't want to start from scratch, I'd suggest the Numimini kit from Jon Ellis. He posts here from time to time. He sells them in full kit, partially-assembled (surface mount components pre-installed) and fully-assembled versions.

Well that looks nice, but I prefer 6 digit clocks. Also, I'm into circuit design and programming, so getting a kit would take away most of the fun.

Thanks for the comments!

"figureloop" <crobc@...> wrote:

I'm fascinated mainly by Nixies and CRTs, with VFDs in third.
... I seem to have recently gotten bitten by interest in
dekatrons.

I consider buying a handful of numitrons ... for the sake of
"completeness."

Good day!

Yes, getting into these ancient tubes tend to get you off into various tangents. To make you really spend more of your money, I see that you didn't mention magic eyes:



If you like CRTs and VFDs, then you're going to have to get a few of their magic eye cousins. Like nixies, dekatrons, VFDs, & numitrons, there are Russian versions available at fairly low cost. Or you can go crazy and try to get a 6T5, for a mere $500US, last I checked.

--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., Eli Dayan <eli.dayan@...> wrote:
<snip>

I wonder why you wouldn't just feed the unregulated 12V from the
transformer into your nixie supply. You don't necessarily need to
regulate the input voltage to your boost converter since it is a
regulator in itself.

<snip>

Dan,

I don't know why I didn't catch that before; I'm going to have to agree with Eli -- you don't need to feed a regulated voltage into the HV switchmode supply. Doing so is just a waste of components, board space, and power.

Also, if you're concerned about thermal issues, why not use a switching regulator for the 5V logic supply as well? You can feed both the 5V regulator and the HV switcher from just one filtered bridge rectifier. There are now quite a few options available online, for switch-mode direct-replacements for the 78xx regulators, with the same pinout and only slightly larger packages.

A.J.