--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., Adam Jacobs <jacobs.adam@...> wrote:
I can provide physical hosting on the Sun in my garage (5mbit
upstream), if that is of use to anyone at all.
--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "Nick" <nick@...> wrote:
I have been quietly automatically shadowing neonixie-l since January
at: - anyone can join
(subject to the usual caveats to prevent spamming).
Others have done similar. AJ - If you want the Google Group, you are
welcome...
As I believe I said in another post, I want to take a break from administrating for a while, though I would be honored to be a moderator or co-owner of the Google group, or its successor (if there is to be one). Regarding technical aspects of server management, web hosting, mailservers, domain registration, copying content, replicating features, adding new features, etc., and otherwise acting as a webmaster -- I'm not well-versed in the IT and webforum/mailserver world, so I would much rather leave that stuff up to those who are. Anything within reason I can do to help from my current position, I will, but I don't want to get involved in the rest of it. I have copies here of the Yahoo NEONIXIE-L member lists in several formats, which I made immediately after my announcement the other night, and which I expect to be sending to Nicko soon for the purpose of inviting those who aren't yet aware of the situation to join the Google group.
--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "Nick" <nick@...> wrote:
...should also have pointed at the topic list:
...and also to point out that I have absolutely no desire to run
this on my own, or even at all - the group was created 6 years ago
in case it was needed - it update[d] automatically from Yahoo every
few minutes, and is otherwise pretty much as per here.
Not having participated in a Google Group before now, I notice that yours does not (yet?) have a Photos section, but there are (only) several photos in the Files section. Do Google Groups offer a Photos section? If so, does it allow the feature that Yahoo trashed on us a few years ago, the ability to create nested albums? It sure would be nice to restore our Photos to that format.
The files section has not been moved, but that could be done
reasonably easily... (I think!).
As I mentioned, others have done similar things - the Google groups
are pretty much identical in format & facilities to the Yahoo ones
Does "pretty much" include the all of the features we've made use of (Web and Email forum with archive, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Calendar) and those we haven't (such as Chat and all of the Yahoo Applications -- Address Book, Birthdays, Favorites, For Sale, Give Away, Group Profile, How To, Jobs, People Map, Places Map, Questions & Answers, Quote Me, RSVP, Rate My Pics, Recipes, Reviews)? I realize that some of those would be rather pointless, but one never knows what the membership might want. What options does Google Groups offer for handling email attachments?
--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "jensboos" <neuss.boos@...> wrote:
I turned on my omputer today and found these mails, and I am a
little surprised, my Yahoo looks the same as it has ever looked,
frankly I see no difference.
But in case the "crap" returns, what should we do? The Google group
from Nick seems a good option, but weren't there discussions about
a "real" forum lately given all the disadvantages of mailing lists?
I think this could be the time that we settle a whole new system,
i.e. a PHP based forum, they are really easy to create, the only
problem is webspace.
Per my earlier comments, PHP is over my head. If that's what is decided upon, someone else will have to handle it.
--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "fixitsan2" <fixitsan@...> wrote:
There are no changes evident here too. I run two other groups and
they look the same as they ever have.
Perhaps it's being done country by country, or has anyone else in
the UK already experienced a change ?
--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., Quixotic Nixotic <nixotic1@...> wrote:
Same as it ever was for me too, in the UK. What were/are they doing?
They had completely re-skinned (not sure if that's the correct terminology) the home page and the message viewing pages in a "modern" black on gray, gray and more gray scheme (which made no use of the custom colors I selected for this group long ago). Many of the nice little features that we've become accustomed to being available by links or buttons were gone. Viewing messages was a nightmare, as there was very limited ability to sort (only by topic or in order of posting, with no ascending/descending option) and many messages were truncated with no obvious means to show their entirety. Absolutely all indications of what was quoted (vs. original material) in posts were stripped away: no rows of dashes, no ">"s, no indentation, no header lines identifying the prior posters, etc. Someone had to have worked very hard to screw that up so royally (no offense intended to the monarchophiles among us). I didn't see any option to view a single post at a time either -- there was always a stack of several onscreen no matter which options I chose.
Upon following the homepage link to the "Groups Blog" < >, I saw that the change was reportedly being rolled out only in the U.S. There was also a note that "You might notice that your Group might switch between versions as we complete all of the group migrations." So, I noticed that later that night that the 'upgrade' had been reverted. There's no telling when it will return, but I'm certain that it will.
--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "Terry" <tschw10117@...> wrote:
<snip>
Is there any reason to stay with Yahoo? Limited space for files
might be an issue.
It appears to me that Google Groups has the same limit as Yahoo; 100 MB per group for Files.
--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., NeonJohn <jgd@...> wrote:
Not so quick, grasshopper! Before making any sort of move, I think that
we need to discuss whether we want to be at the mercy of another large
corp, in this case Google. Google is well known for dropping services
(such as Google Answers) that it doesn't like anymore. Groups could
disappear at any time.
Well, that was always a possibility at Yahoo too. I don't know whether, even now, anyone (or any combination of people!) has a complete backup of NEONIXIE-L.
Groups is also a spam magnet. I read somewhere (wired?) within the last
couple of days that Google has admitted the problem exists and is going
to do something about it Real Soon Now.
If you've checked out more than a handful of Yahoo Groups, you've probably noticed that spam is epidemic here too. Blame it on Yahoo's not clarifying to group owners and moderators the difference between the posting permissions options "everyone", and "members". I think "everyone" may even be the default!
The alternative, and in my opinion the way to go, is to move the list to
a privately operated server such as the several that have volunteered
including myself. A private server that has been there for awhile is
not likely to go away and is probably going to be better managed. I
like the MailMan system which is why I use it for my mailing lists.
--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., NeonJohn <jgd@...> wrote:
Assuming you'll continue to moderate, I can host the list on my MailMan
system. Just say the word and I can have it set up in a few minutes.
One good thing about neon-john.com, it'll be there as long as I'm living
which will hopefully be a few more decades.
--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., Bjorn Again <mimewar@...> wrote:
If someone can do the web design, I will gladly pay the hosting
fees for a web forum. I have learned a lot from this group, and I
want to keep it as good if not better than it was.
--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., Peter Gammie <peteg42@...> wrote:
Firstly, thanks AJ for your efforts with this group.
John,
On 01/09/2010, at 10:45 PM, NeonJohn wrote:
The alternative, and in my opinion the way to go, is to move the list to
a privately operated server such as the several that have volunteered
including myself. A private server that has been there for awhile is
not likely to go away and is probably going to be better managed. I
like the MailMan system which is why I use it for my mailing lists.
The problem with the private model is that we're at the mercy of an
individual. If you look at the archives at the Yahoo group you will
see that AJ has been the sole moderator precisely because the group
is privately owned, and the owner vanished. The solution is to
spread ownership a bit wider, which Nick seems open to.
If you're worried about Google groups going away, then by all means
mirror the group on your private server, like Nick was doing at
Google Groups before this recent upheaval. You could even make that
archive public.
I'd also strongly advocate that we do not move to a web forum. To
me neonixie-l at Yahoo is a mailing list. It may be something else
to others, but to me that is a critical feature - I can process
email much more flexibly than yet another web forum that requires
me to visit it, that can disappear at any moment, etc.
Which is not to say that we can't have both: Google Groups is the
future, I humbly suggest.
As I wrote above, most of this technical stuff is over my head and I don't really want to get involved with it. However, having the group on a private server could be problematic. Even some of the younger among us, are unfortunately destined to depart this world too soon and suddenly, as Michael Gray did early last year. Similarly, I wouldn't want just one person to be responsible for paying hosting and/or domain registration fees, so something more perpetual would need to be set up (non-profit corporation?)
I also agree with Peter that NEONIXIE-L is different things to different people. Many prefer it to be a mailing list, while others such as myself regard it as a web forum. I would hope that whatever form the group morphs into, it continues to support both of those aspects at the very least.
A.J.
