Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Hi,
I looked at just a little bit of information here and chose a 4 inch screen on the H4 with the latest, greatest software. I am not using it with a computer and I have no interest in installing newer software just because the software is newer. If it will replace my coffeemaker or sweep the floor for me I might be interested in that:)
I wanted to see more than just the SWR of my antennas (aerials in other countries). I wanted enough info to make choices about what to do to improve them. It has paid off and quickly. I can now work into Europe on 20 meters. I know that is no big deal but my antennas would NOT do it before even with *perfect* SWR. Come to thinkof it my dummy load has perfect SWR;) I do have other uses for it that I am starting to play with.
73,
Bill KU8H
bark less - wag more
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On 8/10/20 5:03 PM, Lawrance A. Schneider wrote: On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 10:11 PM, Larry Rothman wrote:
And given all the hardware choices out there these days, there should
be a comprehensive description of each, specs, differences, firmware
suggestions, suitable host software, ...
IT SURE WOULD BE HELPFUL!! I ended up ordering a nanoVNA-F Why?? I haven't the foggiest. If I may paraphrase from a private email: it is worse than trying to buy a car.
Thanks, larry
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
In whatever modification the wikis will undergo, I think that placing a link to Alan's videos is a must have
they are a treasure.
73,
Christos SV1EIA
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Love it!! Well done Bill!!
Don, K5DW
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On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:21 PM Bill Cromwell <wrcromwell@...> wrote: Hi Jerry,
I started with one or two files that looked from the titles like "newbie
start here". I may have been directed to the first one from a message
posted here. I quickly found out how to turn it on. Then I found how to
calibrate it, how, why, when. I already knew enough about it to run it
and avoid damaging it before the battery could be charged:)
I never saw or used a VNA before. I almost never heard of a VNA before.
I quickly found out about the expensive ones. This one is good enough.
When I was 10 I learned about the libraries. Not the software files. The
book repositories. For younger list members libraries are places where
they have books of all sorts that you can borrow. You can do research in
libraries to help find the books you may want to borrow. People called
librarians will even help you find what you are looking for. In the
library you can look up explanations of the new words that you encounter
while reading those borrowed library books. I learned to use the
libraries when I was 9. I am very sure adults can learn to use them too.
If that sounds like a lot of work you can go to the internet and use
Google or other search engines. They function close to the same as the
libraries with maybe a little more duff. When you encounter new words
and ideas by all means follow the rabbit holes to an understanding.
Yes..it takes time and effort. I already did it. I cannot do it for you.
The authors here cannot do it for you. You must consume it for yourself.
To be fair I have used sweepers with markers and O'scopes so the basic
idea is not entirely unfamiliar. At this time I am acquiring a better
understanding of Smith charts :)
Books and articles about ideas and concepts that are new to you come
with bibliographies. Those will point you to other books with even more
information. That is akin to those pesky 'links' on the web pages.
73,
Bill KU8H
bark less - wag more
On 8/10/20 11:19 AM, Jerry Gaffke via groups.io wrote:
Bill,
A few quick questions, one word answers are fine:
Was there a specific tutorial that got you over the hump
in figuring out the nanoVNA well enough for a first successful use?
If so, which tutorial?
Did you step into this having already used some other VNA?
Jerry
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 07:08 AM, Bill Cromwell wrote:
I am happy with the WIKI and the group files. I went from zero to successful
use of my nanoVNA strictly on the info I found through the group and
the WIKI
:)
.
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 10:11 PM, Larry Rothman wrote:
And given all the hardware choices out there these days, there should
be a comprehensive description of each, specs, differences, firmware
suggestions, suitable host software, ...
IT SURE WOULD BE HELPFUL!! I ended up ordering a nanoVNA-F Why?? I haven't the foggiest. If I may paraphrase from a private email: it is worse than trying to buy a car. Thanks, larry
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
I'm not aware of anything getting thrown out of the pram.
The nanoVNA-V2 (or whatever they wind up calling it) looks promising if you want to
work with the 2400 mhz ISM band, but for most of us anything *nanoVNA* will do.
Getting access to a PDP8 in college is what really hooked me on digital design.
The user interface may have been cumbersome, but was easy to understand.
Had a couple dozen switches to toggle some bootstrap code into core.
That and a power switch.
Jerry, KE7ER
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On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 01:15 PM, Stephen Laurence wrote:
It is sad that two sets of teddybears have been thrown out of the pram now
(nano and the v2), by very valuable contributors to the development of our
precious devices. I may just have to stick with the stock issue devices as
launched rather than upgrade and modify them.
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Dear Bill,
What a refreshing response. We must be about the same age ( I am 70, retired doctor).
I learned about valves, transistors and electronics from 1960, by doing it, reading monthly magazines and self-teaching for the Amateur Radio exam which I passed in 1964 ( age 14).
I learned about computers as well, although at hardware level I am stuck in the late 60 and early 70¡¯s architecture. A spectrum analyser was not built until 1992 and when I saw what could be done, I bought a boatanchor HP141 analyser ( or three!).
Yes I knew about matching and tuning aerials but had never used a vna until I bought a nano.
I am used to finding things out for myself, but draw the line at complex programming such as the firmware and pc component of the nano (and Tinysa).
It is sad that two sets of teddybears have been thrown out of the pram now (nano and the v2), by very valuable contributors to the development of our precious devices. I may just have to stick with the stock issue devices as launched rather than upgrade and modify them.
Oh well, if all else fails I carry on using my amateur radio gear, fixing my vintage cars and vintage computers (several pdp8 machines and a very rare Elliott 920). I still have more to do than I have time for.
Steve L. G7PSZ
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Bill,
That's good to know.
I am curious if you can remember what "newbie start here" document got you going with the nanoVNA.
Finding technical information of any sort is much easier with the web than when we were young.
When I was 10, I was digging into every encyclopedia I could find to figure out how a radio worked,
but never found anything that did more than name a bunch of elements (microphone, oscillator, etc).
I eventually bought an ARRL Handbook (a major expense!) which helped considerably,
but the handbook of the time did not have much to say about complex impedances.
I had no idea how to gain access to anything better.
Digging about in the wiki or the web at large for information on VNA's is pot luck at best.
Most of it would be incomprehensible to somebody starting out.
And terribly discouraging.
Telling somebody in that situation to just poke around out there
and follow the rabbit holes is not good advice, IMHO.
Way too many rabbits.
As stated before, I'm a retired EE with a career in digital design.
By no means an RF engineer, but I have a fair grip on the fundamentals.
The couple of nanoVNA guides I saw mentioned as of mid 2019 did not
adequately describe how to use the standalone menus of the nanoVNA.
I did eventually find that FlexAndHex tutorial, which I can recommend.
There might be better out there.
At the start of this thread, I asked what the preferred firmware for a
classic nanoVNA might be. The answer is not obvious.
The firmware repositories may not state what hardware they are intended for.
There is no document that compares the various possible firmware repositories.
A bunch of information popped up in the responses that really should be in the wiki.
That was my experience, perhaps my tolerance for poorly documented
user interfaces is lower than yours.
My preferred user interface is a unix shell prompt, most 10 year olds today
would have a much easier time than I with my android phone.
Or perhaps you stumbled upon a decent tutorial more quickly than I.
.
Jerry, KE7ER
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On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:21 PM, Bill Cromwell wrote:
Hi Jerry,
I started with one or two files that looked from the titles like "newbie start
here". I may have been directed to the first one from a message posted here. I
quickly found out how to turn it on. Then I found how to calibrate it, how,
why, when. I already knew enough about it to run it and avoid damaging it
before the battery could be charged:)
I never saw or used a VNA before. I almost never heard of a VNA before. I
quickly found out about the expensive ones. This one is good enough.
When I was 10 I learned about the libraries. Not the software files. The book
repositories. For younger list members libraries are places where they have
books of all sorts that you can borrow. You can do research in libraries to
help find the books you may want to borrow. People called librarians will even
help you find what you are looking for. In the library you can look up
explanations of the new words that you encounter while reading those borrowed
library books. I learned to use the libraries when I was 9. I am very sure
adults can learn to use them too.
If that sounds like a lot of work you can go to the internet and use Google or
other search engines. They function close to the same as the libraries with
maybe a little more duff. When you encounter new words and ideas by all means
follow the rabbit holes to an understanding. Yes..it takes time and effort. I
already did it. I cannot do it for you. The authors here cannot do it for you.
You must consume it for yourself.
To be fair I have used sweepers with markers and O'scopes so the basic idea is
not entirely unfamiliar. At this time I am acquiring a better understanding of
Smith charts :)
Books and articles about ideas and concepts that are new to you come with
bibliographies. Those will point you to other books with even more
information. That is akin to those pesky 'links' on the web pages.
73,
Bill KU8H
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Hi Jerry,
I started with one or two files that looked from the titles like "newbie start here". I may have been directed to the first one from a message posted here. I quickly found out how to turn it on. Then I found how to calibrate it, how, why, when. I already knew enough about it to run it and avoid damaging it before the battery could be charged:)
I never saw or used a VNA before. I almost never heard of a VNA before. I quickly found out about the expensive ones. This one is good enough.
When I was 10 I learned about the libraries. Not the software files. The book repositories. For younger list members libraries are places where they have books of all sorts that you can borrow. You can do research in libraries to help find the books you may want to borrow. People called librarians will even help you find what you are looking for. In the library you can look up explanations of the new words that you encounter while reading those borrowed library books. I learned to use the libraries when I was 9. I am very sure adults can learn to use them too.
If that sounds like a lot of work you can go to the internet and use Google or other search engines. They function close to the same as the libraries with maybe a little more duff. When you encounter new words and ideas by all means follow the rabbit holes to an understanding. Yes..it takes time and effort. I already did it. I cannot do it for you. The authors here cannot do it for you. You must consume it for yourself.
To be fair I have used sweepers with markers and O'scopes so the basic idea is not entirely unfamiliar. At this time I am acquiring a better understanding of Smith charts :)
Books and articles about ideas and concepts that are new to you come with bibliographies. Those will point you to other books with even more information. That is akin to those pesky 'links' on the web pages.
73,
Bill KU8H
bark less - wag more
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On 8/10/20 11:19 AM, Jerry Gaffke via groups.io wrote: Bill,
A few quick questions, one word answers are fine:
Was there a specific tutorial that got you over the hump
in figuring out the nanoVNA well enough for a first successful use?
If so, which tutorial?
Did you step into this having already used some other VNA?
Jerry
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 07:08 AM, Bill Cromwell wrote:
I am happy with the WIKI and the group files. I went from zero to successful
use of my nanoVNA strictly on the info I found through the group and the WIKI
:)
.
|
Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
I'm thinking hard about doing a README for the wiki. After some initial comments about VNA's and the nanoVNA in particular, it would then attempt to describe at least some of the other materials in the wiki. Will post it for corrections, and to see if the group can agree on where it should be placed. Browsing the materials in the wiki and making a few notes to myself is something I should do anyway. I had previously said: The three part nanoVNA tutorial from DG8GB looks very promising,
Part 2 looks like good stuff, but is by no means an introductory tutorial: On page 10 he starts on how to use nanovna-saver with your nanoVNA-H. He recommends 18ghz Huber Suhner coax, torquing the SMA's to 0.45Nm, using a Wheatstone bridge to determine the true resistance of your 50 ohm load, and describes how to compensate for the 50.7ps delay through an SMA adapter. On page 12 he lists the various display options, you had best know what a VNA is. The wiki gives the DG8GB tutorial equal footing with HexAndFlex, which is quite basic: I think that's a fair example of why we need some sort of guide. Jerry, KE7ER On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 04:52 AM, Oristo wrote:
no one has approached me to help them with adding content
(I can't speak for Oristo, Herb or the other wiki contributors).
Comments?
Occasional private emails suggest or provoke Wiki edits,
but (so far) neither volunteers nor requests for assistance editing it,
much less pull requests to linked GitHub deliverables.
Some of the material in the wiki is excellent. Much of it is not.
I can imagine:
1) adding a "Welcome! read this first!!!" pointer to some best-of,
step-by-step introductory guide
at the Wiki main page top
2) relocating "Much of it is not" materials to "for more information" or
"related content" pages
... but such actions suppose specific consensuses of opinion about excellence
Lacking access to (and motivation to acquire) other than a second generation
clone,
I am poorly positioned to generate / edit content for other / new (e.g. -F, V2
or V3) hardware;
my clone has VBAT diode and bootloader switch modifications
(failed EMI shielding and absorber mods since removed)
but component changes for neither bridge, bypass nor SD card..
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Bill,
A few quick questions, one word answers are fine:
Was there a specific tutorial that got you over the hump
in figuring out the nanoVNA well enough for a first successful use?
If so, which tutorial?
Did you step into this having already used some other VNA?
Jerry
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On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 07:08 AM, Bill Cromwell wrote: I am happy with the WIKI and the group files. I went from zero to successful
use of my nanoVNA strictly on the info I found through the group and the WIKI
:)
|
Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Hi,
I am happy with the WIKI and the group files. I went from zero to successful use of my nanoVNA strictly on the info I found through the group and the WIKI :)
73,
Bill KU8H
bark less - wag more
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On 8/10/20 10:03 AM, Oristo wrote: Hi Bill -
some of the information in the io group useful and productive. Specific feedback about which are more and less useful can promote improvements.
I am not qualified to edit the WIKI Wiki editing can be tedious, but it is not hard.
On the other hand I have not complained about it For those uncomfortable complaining about something "free",
I more often than not make edits >>in response to specifics<< from direct emails.
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Hi Bill - some of the information in the io group useful and productive. Specific feedback about which are more and less useful can promote improvements. I am not qualified to edit the WIKI Wiki editing can be tedious, but it is not hard. On the other hand I have not complained about it For those uncomfortable complaining about something "free", I more often than not make edits >>in response to specifics<< from direct emails.
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Simple stand for holding VNA
The small lightweight nanoVNA is hard for me to hold, so I made stand to hold it. The fold up stand is very convenient to use, holds the unit at the proper angle for viewing and protects the switches and connectors from damage.
The stand is built from a scrap piece of nylon from a kitchen cutting board my wife threw away. Dollar Tree has a suitable small $1.00 cutting board that would work perfectly. I removed the back cover of the vna and used it as a drill template to drill the four small mounting holes. I carefully countersunk the small holes leaving a 0.030 inch flange for the mounting screw head to catch in order to secure the unit. The other holes were drilled freehand and used to form the hinge on top and The tension straps on the bottom. I used wax coated wire lacing string to tie the front and back leg together as shown.
After attaching the vna to the front piece, I drilled two more holes to strain relief the USB cable. I folded a business card up to form a shim underneath the USB cable so when I tied it no pressure was introduced to the socket/plug assembly. I leave my coax cables attached all the time too and was considering a similar strain relief, but I left plenty of material to the left of the connectors and have not seen the need yet. I leave the coax cables attached to put all the wear on the cables rather than the VNA¡¯s connectors. The large hole On the top right is used to tie a safety string when I am working outside. I use a stylus to tun the unit off and on and operate the touch screen which has a cell phone screen protector attached.
I power the unit with a small USB battery pack that powers the unit for several days. I also left material on the right hand side for attaching a post it note where I can make notes of how the unit is calibrated. A small laptop bag is used to store the unit adapters etc.
Dallas N5fee
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Hi, I am in low orbit around all of this with a nanoVNA in my tool kit and a tinySA ordered. I have found the WIKI and some of the information in the io group useful and productive. I am not qualified to edit the WIKI :) On the other hand I have not complained about it. 73, Bill KU8H bark less - wag more On 8/10/20 7:52 AM, Oristo wrote: no one has approached me to help them with adding content
(I can't speak for Oristo, Herb or the other wiki contributors).
Comments? Occasional private emails suggest or provoke Wiki edits,
but (so far) neither volunteers nor requests for assistance editing it,
much less pull requests to linked GitHub deliverables.
----snip--------
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
no one has approached me to help them with adding content
(I can't speak for Oristo, Herb or the other wiki contributors).
Comments? Occasional private emails suggest or provoke Wiki edits, but (so far) neither volunteers nor requests for assistance editing it, much less pull requests to linked GitHub deliverables. Some of the material in the wiki is excellent. Much of it is not.
I can imagine: 1) adding a "Welcome! read this first!!!" pointer to some best-of, step-by-step introductory guide at the Wiki main page top 2) relocating "Much of it is not" materials to "for more information" or "related content" pages ... but such actions suppose specific consensuses of opinion about excellence Lacking access to (and motivation to acquire) other than a second generation clone, I am poorly positioned to generate / edit content for other / new (e.g. -F, V2 or V3) hardware; my clone has VBAT diode and bootloader switch modifications (failed EMI shielding and absorber mods since removed) but component changes for neither bridge, bypass nor SD card..
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Re: I think I bricked my nano VNA
Thanks Roger,
If anyone can point me to more information on doing a clearconfig, I'll look into it.
So far, after getting the latest release loaded after having crashed it, it seems to be working. I'll have to do a few more tests with it, but calibration worked, the graphs are stable and some simple VSWR testing did yield the expected results. I'll test more tomorrow.
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Please disregard my last post. It was ment for a different group. It was
due to a person wanting to basically erase that groups WIKI and put an
article he wrote as gospel on how to operate NanoVNA.
I pre wrote the message and clicked on the wrong link for posting.
Again please disregard my previous post.
Sorry for the confusion.
Clyde Lambert KC7BJE
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Re: Odd Behavior of NanoVNA-Saver
In theory
NanoVNA is a USB device as far as the hardware / OS where NanoVNA_Saver is running is concerned.
The actual data passing thru the connection is pretty much immaterial as far as the connection goes.
The connecting process starts from USB device being plugged in and identifying itself to the OS.
In an essence the software running on OS - NanoVNA-Saver - gets the connection passed in by OS after it is already established.
So the "connect" button is pretty much just confirmation that connection has been established between the USB device ( NanoVNA) and OS.
Again - in theory - if you have "running OS " with NanoVNA connected / running and then execute "NanoVNA-Saver" software AND then execute the "connect " it should not crash IF the USB to OS connection is OK .
I do not have NanoVNA_Saver running so I may be using wrong terms for NanoVNA-Saver to connect or disconnect.
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Re: Odd Behavior of NanoVNA-Saver
The idea of video playback never occurred to me, Larry.
I looked in the syslog, and it literally says, "nanovna-saver.py exited with unknown error"
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On 8/9/20 8:20 PM, Larry Rothman wrote: Charles,
When I get split second popups, I video the display and play back the video at a slow speed until I can stop it at the pop-up.
Did you check your syslogs for error messages?
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Re: Odd Behavior of NanoVNA-Saver
You may be right, Jim. I haven't tried waiting more than a few minutes between plugging in the device and launching NonaVNA-Saver.
Then again, letting it crash and immediately relaunching is faster. :)
Thanks!
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On 8/9/20 8:10 PM, Jim Lux wrote:
I'm going to guess something about the drivers for the USB device - is it a serial port, I'm too lazy to go look how my nanoVNA shows up, but I do notice the software imports serial (i.e. Pyserial)
You might try reinstalling the Pyserial package. There's some "pip" command that does it - I use Anaconda, so there's a conda update thing too.
And there's always weirdnesses about USB serial ports - you plug it in, and it takes some amount of time before
a) /dev/tty... shows up
b) /dev/tty... is actually usable
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Don K5DW
Oristo
Clyde Lambert