Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Larry, I assume the user guide you wanted me to look at is this one: /g/nanovna-users/files/NanoVNA-User-Guide-English-reformat-Jan-15-20.pdfI tried using an earlier version of that guide a year ago, got stumped. Section 5 looked interesting: 5. Starting a measurement" But then the instructions just say: Basic measurement sequence
1. Set the frequency range to be measured ¨C Use START/STOP or SPAN/CENTER
2. Perform calibration (and save!)
3. Connect the Device Under Test (DUT) and measure The HexAndFlex tutorial breaks this down into specific moves through the menu system which I found much easier (ie possible) to follow. Perhaps another hour or two of fiddling with the thing could have got me going with the cho45 guide. But my touchscreen interface was flaking out and the tog wheel was almost impossible to use. The nanoVNA ignored the togwheel most of the time, making it difficult to explore the menu. Let me know if there are specific links in /g/nanovna-users/wiki/12395 that you want me to follow. Jerry, KE7ER On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 07:46 PM, Larry Rothman wrote:
Jerry,
I placed links in the Wiki that reference what a VNA is/does.
Look here at the misc links
/g/nanovna-users/wiki/12395
... Larry
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 04:24 PM, Larry Rothman wrote: Jerry,
Did you have a look at the User Guide I edited, located in the files area?
I used feedback from several members to make sure the user interface info was
fairly clear.
... Larry
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
The presentation is very good.
However, slide 12 is not correct in the suggestion that Return Loss is always a negative number. That is simply not the case.
The reflection magnitude in db is always a negative number, yes. Expressing it in terms of "LOSS" is negative by implication and is thereby expressed as a positive number. A reflection -20db down (negative) from the incident is a return loss of 20db (positive loss). This shouldn't be confusing to anybody, much less HP or even tomatoes.
Danny
K5CG
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Oristo" <ormpoa@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 4:55:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nanovna-users] Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing #docs #edit You might find this presentation on the NanoVNA, complex numbers etc.
interesting. Newer version:
/g/nanovna-users/filessearch?q=on7dq
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 05:03 PM, Lawrance A. Schneider wrote:
IT SURE WOULD BE HELPFUL!! I ended up ordering a nanoVNA-F Why?? I haven't the
foggiest. If I may paraphrase from a private email: it is worse than trying to
buy a car.
Well, I think you made a great choice! I started out with a fairly early NanoVNA in October, 2019 and liked it, but had a hard time reading it outdoors, and sometimes indoors. I got a -F this June and I think it's great! (There is more firmware versions for the -H and -H4, but unless you _really_ need that, the -F does just fine.) Doug, K8RFT
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Re: Simple stand for holding VNA
On 8/11/20 4:59 AM, Spike wrote: Before you scrap your wonderful stand there Dallas check to see if it is an ESD hazard.
Most of the food prep boards I have used for construction (yes, they are an excellent and cheap source of flatish, non-conducting material) are actually polyethylene (LDPE & HDPE) rather than Nylon. As you say, most cutting boards are PE, but it is also a significant ESD hazard - Unless you buy a piece of dissipative plastic (McMaster Carr) most plastics are a hazard. You could coat it with a dissipative film (maybe) May not be as much an issue as it seems :)
'spose you can check by rubbing it against a cat on a dry day or something ;-)
Spike
On 11/08/2020 11:51, Dallas wrote:
? Dallas 3:48am?? #16466
Good point on ESD. Thin metal, plywood, paneling, or Masonite might be a better material choice. I will make up a new one.
Thanks,
Dallas, N5fee
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Re: Simple stand for holding VNA
Before you scrap your wonderful stand there Dallas check to see if it is an ESD hazard.
Most of the food prep boards I have used for construction (yes, they are an excellent and cheap source of flatish, non-conducting material) are actually polyethylene (LDPE & HDPE) rather than Nylon.
May not be as much an issue as it seems :)
'spose you can check by rubbing it against a cat on a dry day or something ;-)
Spike
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On 11/08/2020 11:51, Dallas wrote: Dallas 3:48am #16466
Good point on ESD. Thin metal, plywood, paneling, or Masonite might be a better material choice. I will make up a new one.
Thanks,
Dallas, N5fee
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Re: Bad V2 clones incoming
Hi Hugen,
how is status of V2 with 4 inches!
may I ask 617DB-1023 or YB006T-1023 is used in yours?
Do your product support same firmware+software from S-A-A-2, mean direct updates?
bcos I am interested in 4 inches ver. stilled finding out original 2.8" upgrade to 4" or buying product like yours, or wait for official 4" version.
thxs,
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Re: Simple stand for holding VNA
Dallas 3:48am #16466
Good point on ESD. Thin metal, plywood, paneling, or Masonite might be a better material choice. I will make up a new one.
Thanks,
Dallas, N5fee
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nanovna saver pc software
ive downloaded the vna saver s.w with the drivers,as soon as my win7pc connects,it displays for about 2 seconds then vanishes,any idears?,its like the program closes,im running 64 bit win 7
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Jerry, I placed links in the Wiki that reference what a VNA is/does. Look here at the misc links /g/nanovna-users/wiki/12395... Larry On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 at 8:18 PM, Jerry Gaffke via groups.io<jgaffke@...> wrote: Larry:? I'll definitely look that over. Bill: You did well.? For most amateur radio operators, I suspect a VNA will be difficult to fully understand.? Very seldom in the amateur magazines is there mention of the complications that phase introduces, and hardly ever are there calculations that include phase. Few evaluate an antenna any further than finding the SWR. I'm trying to write a short concise description of a VNA that introduces the concept of phase, impedance, and complex numbers.? It isn't easy. Which explains why most tutorials assume this stuff is already understood. Once I get something down I'll poke around further and see if it has been done better.? Probably has, but it is a good exercise for me. Minor details pop up when trying to explain something like this, demonstrating that I don't quite understand it as well as I thought. Jerry, KE7ER.
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 06:20 PM, Jerry Gaffke wrote: Great!
Keep them coming!
Jerry Another good one Jerry... Roger
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 06:20 PM, Jerry Gaffke wrote: Great!
Keep them coming!
Jerry
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Re: Simple stand for holding VNA
Just keep ESD (electrostatic discharge) in mind when using the stand. I guess I have had ESD precautions hammered into me after years of working in electronics! About ever two years an ESD refresher course had to be signed-off.
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Great!
Keep them coming!
Jerry
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 05:17 PM, Jerry Gaffke wrote:
I'm trying to write a short concise description of a VNA that introduces
the concept of phase, impedance, and complex numbers. It isn't easy.
Which explains why most tutorials assume this stuff is already understood.
Once I get something down I'll poke around further and see if
it has been done better. Probably has, but it is a good exercise for me.
Minor details pop up when trying to explain something like this,
demonstrating that I don't quite understand it as well as I thought.
You might find this presentation on the NanoVNA, complex numbers etc. interesting. Roger
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Larry: I'll definitely look that over.
Bill:
You did well. For most amateur radio operators, I suspect a VNA will be
difficult to fully understand. Very seldom in the amateur magazines
is there mention of the complications that phase introduces,
and hardly ever are there calculations that include phase.
Few evaluate an antenna any further than finding the SWR.
I'm trying to write a short concise description of a VNA that introduces
the concept of phase, impedance, and complex numbers. It isn't easy.
Which explains why most tutorials assume this stuff is already understood.
Once I get something down I'll poke around further and see if
it has been done better. Probably has, but it is a good exercise for me.
Minor details pop up when trying to explain something like this,
demonstrating that I don't quite understand it as well as I thought.
Jerry, KE7ER.
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Hi Larry,
I haven't looked. If you made things easier or more clear (or both) for others then I say Good on you:)
73,
Bill KU8H
bark less - wag more
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On 8/10/20 7:24 PM, Larry Rothman wrote: Jerry,
Did you have a look at the User Guide I edited, located in the files area?
I used feedback from several members to make sure the user interface info was fairly clear.
... Larry
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Hi Jerry,
I will have tp take another look but the environment has probably changed since I looked the first time. I may not be able to find all the same rabbit holes. There are likely to be other rabbit holes that will work just as well. "Stumbling" is an apt choice of words - especially for an old Michigan Hillbilly.
With no help from any mentor or "Elmer" I had to dig it all from myself. There was some simple info in "Boy's Life" and I was lucky to find a copy of the ARRL Handbook in the library.
As for my life's work; I operated, maintained, made machinery. I had training from Ford Motor Company, General Motors, and the US Navy. No funny little wires anywhere. Electricity, Electronics, and Radio have been my *hobby*.
73,
Bill KU8H
bark less - wag more
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On 8/10/20 4:14 PM, Jerry Gaffke via groups.io wrote: Bill,
That's good to know.
I am curious if you can remember what "newbie start here" document got you going with the nanoVNA.
Finding technical information of any sort is much easier with the web than when we were young.
When I was 10, I was digging into every encyclopedia I could find to figure out how a radio worked,
but never found anything that did more than name a bunch of elements (microphone, oscillator, etc).
I eventually bought an ARRL Handbook (a major expense!) which helped considerably,
but the handbook of the time did not have much to say about complex impedances.
I had no idea how to gain access to anything better.
Digging about in the wiki or the web at large for information on VNA's is pot luck at best.
Most of it would be incomprehensible to somebody starting out.
And terribly discouraging.
Telling somebody in that situation to just poke around out there
and follow the rabbit holes is not good advice, IMHO.
Way too many rabbits.
As stated before, I'm a retired EE with a career in digital design.
By no means an RF engineer, but I have a fair grip on the fundamentals.
The couple of nanoVNA guides I saw mentioned as of mid 2019 did not
adequately describe how to use the standalone menus of the nanoVNA.
I did eventually find that FlexAndHex tutorial, which I can recommend.
There might be better out there.
At the start of this thread, I asked what the preferred firmware for a
classic nanoVNA might be. The answer is not obvious.
The firmware repositories may not state what hardware they are intended for.
There is no document that compares the various possible firmware repositories.
A bunch of information popped up in the responses that really should be in the wiki.
That was my experience, perhaps my tolerance for poorly documented
user interfaces is lower than yours.
My preferred user interface is a unix shell prompt, most 10 year olds today
would have a much easier time than I with my android phone.
Or perhaps you stumbled upon a decent tutorial more quickly than I.
.
Jerry, KE7ER
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Re: Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing
Jerry,
Did you have a look at the User Guide I edited, located in the files area?
I used feedback from several members to make sure the user interface info was fairly clear.?
... Larry
On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 at 4:14 PM, Jerry Gaffke via groups.io<jgaffke@...> wrote: Bill,
That's good to know.
I am curious if you can remember what "newbie start here" document got you going with the nanoVNA.
Finding technical information of any sort is much easier with the web than when we were young.
When I was 10, I was digging into every encyclopedia I could find to figure out how a radio worked,
but never found anything that did more than name a bunch of elements (microphone, oscillator, etc).
I eventually bought an ARRL Handbook (a major expense!) which helped considerably,
but the handbook of the time did not have much to say about complex impedances.
I had no idea how to gain access to anything better.
Digging about in the wiki or the web at large for information on VNA's is pot luck at best.
Most of it would be incomprehensible to somebody starting out.
And terribly discouraging.
Telling somebody in that situation to just poke around out there
and follow the rabbit holes is not good advice, IMHO.
Way too many rabbits.
As stated before, I'm a retired EE with a career in digital design.
By no means an RF engineer, but I have a fair grip on the fundamentals.
The couple of nanoVNA guides I saw mentioned as of mid 2019 did not
adequately describe how to use the standalone menus of the nanoVNA.
I did eventually find that FlexAndHex tutorial, which I can recommend.
There might be better out there.
At the start of this thread, I asked what the preferred firmware for a
classic nanoVNA might be.? The answer is not obvious.
The firmware repositories may not state what hardware they are intended for.
There is no document that compares the various possible firmware repositories.
A bunch of information popped up in the responses that really should be in the wiki.
That was my experience, perhaps my tolerance for poorly documented
user interfaces is lower than yours.
My preferred user interface is a unix shell prompt, most 10 year olds today
would have a much easier time than I with my android phone.
Or perhaps you stumbled upon a decent tutorial more quickly than I.
.
Jerry, KE7ER
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On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:21 PM, Bill Cromwell wrote:
Hi Jerry,
I started with one or two files that looked from the titles like "newbie start
here". I may have been directed to the first one from a message posted here. I
quickly found out how to turn it on. Then I found how to calibrate it, how,
why, when. I already knew enough about it to run it and avoid damaging it
before the battery could be charged:)
I never saw or used a VNA before. I almost never heard of a VNA before. I
quickly found out about the expensive ones. This one is good enough.
When I was 10 I learned about the libraries. Not the software files. The book
repositories. For younger list members libraries are places where they have
books of all sorts that you can borrow. You can do research in libraries to
help find the books you may want to borrow. People called librarians will even
help you find what you are looking for. In the library you can look up
explanations of the new words that you encounter while reading those borrowed
library books. I learned to use the libraries when I was 9. I am very sure
adults can learn to use them too.
If that sounds like a lot of work you can go to the internet and use Google or
other search engines. They function close to the same as the libraries with
maybe a little more duff. When you encounter new words and ideas by all means
follow the rabbit holes to an understanding. Yes..it takes time and effort. I
already did it. I cannot do it for you. The authors here cannot do it for you.
You must consume it for yourself.
To be fair I have used sweepers with markers and O'scopes so the basic idea is
not entirely unfamiliar. At this time I am acquiring a better understanding of
Smith charts :)
Books and articles about ideas and concepts that are new to you come with
bibliographies. Those will point you to other books with even more
information. That is akin to those pesky 'links' on the web pages.
73,
Bill KU8H
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Danny K5CG
oakkar7
Oristo
Roger Need