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Re: Building the firmware

Dr. David Kirkby from Kirkby Microwave Ltd
 

On Wed, 4 Sep 2019 at 07:42, <erik@...> wrote:

A word of warning when using DfuSEDemo.exe
Uploading means downloading from the device into your computer
Upgrade/Verify is for loading new software into your device

So ALWAYS first do a "Upload" (e.g. a download) from your device into your
computer to create a backup of the firmware in a safe place
Then you can test new SW and restore to the old if needed.
I tested and the restore works!!!!

As a matter of interest, should one get a power failure during the
¡°download¡± does that render the device useless or can one just restart the
process when power is restored?

Dave
--
Dr. David Kirkby,
Kirkby Microwave Ltd,
drkirkby@...

Telephone 01621-680100./ +44 1621 680100

Registered in England & Wales.
Company number 08914892.
Registered office:
Stokes Hall Lodge,
Burnham Rd,
Althorne,
Chelmsford,
Essex,
CM3 6DT,
United Kingdom


Re: Early app for the NanoVNA

 
Edited

Currently NanoVNA has 4 calibration slots.
How about limit sweep count up to 4?
*User must calibrate done every 1/4 bandwidth then save 0 to 3 calibration slot.
*nanovna-saver loads every 1/4 bandwidth calibration slots prior to sweeps every 1/4 bandwidth.
It would be more static(?) results we get - Just I my 2 cent


Re: Early app for the NanoVNA

 

Does not have NanoVNA or professional lab gears. Also I'm not RF expert too. But...
If lots of sweep count, calibrated data still acceptable/trustworthy?
ie) 1-800MHz /w 10x => sweep every 1/10 bandwidth. but calibrated full range(1-800MHz)


Re: Building the firmware

 

A word of warning when using DfuSEDemo.exe
Uploading means downloading from the device into your computer
Upgrade/Verify is for loading new software into your device

So ALWAYS first do a "Upload" (e.g. a download) from your device into your computer to create a backup of the firmware in a safe place
Then you can test new SW and restore to the old if needed.
I tested and the restore works!!!!


Re: Building the firmware

 

On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 12:43 PM, DMR wrote:


Replace Makefile.
Thanks!!!
All ok now


Re: Upgrade MCU from STM32F072C8T6 to STM32F303CCT6

 

I don't know if the STM32F303 is pin-compatible with the existing chip, but
I did check earlier that STM32F104 should be a direct drop-in, and offers
slightly more RAM (20kB) and 128kB of flash memory at the max spec.

If cost is a concern, this may also be slightly cheaper.

--
Rune / 5Q5R

On Wed, 4 Sep 2019 at 07:35, Rune Broberg <mihtjel@...> wrote:

Hi Reginald,
in my experience, you can run the serial port at whatever speed you desire
(within reason, I'm sure) - it is a USB serial port, and I'm happily
running it at 115200 in my software with few problems. There is the
occasional single-bit/byte transmission error, but I think that's purely
from the large number of bytes sent. (If anyone has other suggestions, let
me know - it's a TODO on the list).

TLDR: The USB driver negotiates the speed, higher speeds are fine.

--
Rune / 5Q5R

On Wed, 4 Sep 2019 at 01:26, Reginald Beardsley via Groups.Io <pulaskite=
[email protected]> wrote:

One could always use the serial port to control the nano via the console
commands.

I would expect that the speed could be raised to 115200 baud from the
9600 baud default. It might require disabling the display, but if you're
adding a larger display on the Pi Zero it doesn't matter.

In any case, the scripting language of your choice and gnuplot will
produce very nice figures.




Re: Upgrade MCU from STM32F072C8T6 to STM32F303CCT6

 

Hi Reginald,
in my experience, you can run the serial port at whatever speed you desire
(within reason, I'm sure) - it is a USB serial port, and I'm happily
running it at 115200 in my software with few problems. There is the
occasional single-bit/byte transmission error, but I think that's purely
from the large number of bytes sent. (If anyone has other suggestions, let
me know - it's a TODO on the list).

TLDR: The USB driver negotiates the speed, higher speeds are fine.

--
Rune / 5Q5R

On Wed, 4 Sep 2019 at 01:26, Reginald Beardsley via Groups.Io <pulaskite=
[email protected]> wrote:

One could always use the serial port to control the nano via the console
commands.

I would expect that the speed could be raised to 115200 baud from the 9600
baud default. It might require disabling the display, but if you're adding
a larger display on the Pi Zero it doesn't matter.

In any case, the scripting language of your choice and gnuplot will
produce very nice figures.




Re: Early app for the NanoVNA

 

Hi Harry,
it certainly needs both error handling, and documentation! ;-) It was
getting late and I wanted it released.

The calibration buttons require you to run a sweep of the standard in
question first - not just connect it - before clicking it. I'm not sure if
you did this? Otherwise, this would certainly lead to the division by zero
error, as each standard would be seen as the same.

The sweeps for the 3 standards need to be the same length, and across the
same frequency span. Full span of the NanoVNA is probably most useful, and
10+ sweep count (to get 1000+ data points) is probably good. For detailed
work you can of course recalibrate at the span you intend to use the device
for a specific measurement.

The two-port measurements - through and isolation - are not available yet,
as I'm not entirely certain on the calculations needed. If someone's really
into this, and knows how to do 1.5 port calibration in a way that can be
explained to a numpty like me - please let me know! :D

I hope these quick notes lead you to more success with the calibration
function.

--
Rune / 5Q5R

On Wed, 4 Sep 2019 at 05:21, Harry McGavran Jr <w5pny@...> wrote:

Hi Rune --

Well, I ran pdb to look at a few things in Calibration.py --
gm1, gm2, and gm3 all come up with the same values, hence denominator is 0.
I didn't have time to see why s11short, s11open and s11load led to that
though.
I only looked at the first interation through that loop.

Maybe this will help give you a head start on the problem...

73 --
Harry




Re: Early app for the NanoVNA

 

Hi Rune --

Well, I ran pdb to look at a few things in Calibration.py --
gm1, gm2, and gm3 all come up with the same values, hence denominator is 0.
I didn't have time to see why s11short, s11open and s11load led to that though.
I only looked at the first interation through that loop.

Maybe this will help give you a head start on the problem...

73 --
Harry


Re: How to measure source impedance?

 
Edited

Thnx, Alan.

I saw someone introduced 75Ohm load side's VSWR with 50Ohm matched VSWR measurement gear
- Easy formular, but it does not suitable for measure sourceZ I think.
Also I already thought coupler that has reference load connectors(4 port with 1:1 balun)
- Coupler input port circuit was already 50 Ohm matched( If unknown sourceZ not matched 50 Ohm, power will reflected before reaching coupler circuit I think ), I already know my loadZ(antenna) through 50 Ohm calibrated VNA.

COLD method I will try with shorter than 1/10F cable lengths :-)
I wish to know further more knowledge about 10W powered sourceZ proper/right measurment method.


Re: NanoVNA RF Calibration Considerations and Procedure-v1.0 - Possible Typo?

 

Hi Tom,

I should probably get the document out in front of me and minimize the risk of trying to fix my errors. However, let me see if I can address any misunderstanding from your email message. The CAL feature we were trying to address in this portion of the procedure is to achieve the best port to port isolation as well achieve the corrected insertion loss of the test set. So there are a set of 50 ohm cables connected to CH0 and CH1 and we have in hand the SMA adapter, a bullet, a female-to-female adapter, that will be used to join the 2- cables together. We then do a THRU CAL. I suppose our wording may be confusing... stating CH1 instead of CH0. I can revisit. We also need to update the document to call out what terminations are what... That is to say, the SHORT, OPEN and LOAD, p/o the kit are not labeled. Most folks got it, but many did not!

Thanks for the feedback on the document. Suggestions are very welcome.

Alan Victor


Re: How to measure source impedance?

 

Do not try to measure the source impedance of an active device using a VNA. It is possible but it is not a straight forward measurement and requires additional devices to complement the measurement. This is particularly problematic at large RF power levels. If you wish to measure the COLD non RF output power level that is certainly safe but of course only an estimate as the active device is OFF.

There is a rather simple method for measurement of an active device source impedance and it is defined by the LOAD PULL METHOD. It requires a variable line stretcher, that is a transmission line with adjustable physical length, a known load impedance, for example 100 ohms, a directional coupler and a spectrum analyzer. The heart of the method is based on the principle that if I sample the ratio of the power change between the incident and reflected power from the directional coupler for a known load pull range, I can deduce the magnitude of the source impedance. If this is of interest, I can try to find the details of the measurement system.

Alan


Re: How to measure source impedance?

 
Edited



AND... Some of FB group users reports/Vendor official account also confirmed '50 Ohm is theory. Anyway our stock antenna matched our transceiver. If you want more ranges, use stock antenna'
-'3rd party antenna's loading coil parts burnt': Photos/Videos
-'poor reception ranges when I change antennas'
-Screenshot of professional lab gear and descriptions that 30 Ohm source impedance he said( I remember. he/she did not answered 'how to measure source impedance of 10W RF output port' )

I don't want '20 Ohm is not a problem/VSWR over 2.x that will be acceptable/Transceiver burnt? lie!'
I already addressed 'for better ranges and eliminate heat as far as I can' - Without trial/error

Now. Its your turn 'How can I measure output impedance of 10W RF source right/correct/safe way?'


Re: Early app for the NanoVNA

 

Many thanks Rune, Oristo, hwalker, and Larry, for your advice!

I just got in (spent the day building wood-cribs and stacking oak in preparation for winter), and I've been able to do some very brief testing...

Right-clicking on the icon revealed the path, which, interestingly, is not visible if I do a search for python items on my c: drive.

The directory pointed to is: C:\Users\Jeff\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python37-32

If I look under C:\Users\Jeff, I do not see the AppData directory. Weird (at least, weird to a hw guy).

But I can run python in this directory, and check its version (i.e. type 'python --version'), which is something I couldn't do before.

Not sure if I can run pip yet. It is supposed to be loaded, but if I simply type 'pip' or 'pip install' (or substitute pip3 for pip) at the command prompt, I get a reply that pip "is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file'. So maybe it is hiding somewhere else.

Anyway -- my better half has just arrived with a Negroni for me, and dinner is not far off, so I will continue the quest tomorrow morning.

Thanks again!

- Jeff, k6jca


Re: Building the firmware

 

I'm doing a little research on this issue with not having enough space on the chip. From what I can make out in this thread, the firmware is using ChibiStudio which uses gcc as it's base compiler. The thing is, gcc does not optimize the code for the ARM fully compared to ADS (Arm Development Studio). The problem is their programs are expensive. I've written to them to see if there is a free community version.

There are many other options as well. One of the more professional options is TrueStudio by Atollic which is available here:



Apparently they have stopped development on the product. Last release was 02/22/19.



I read some where on the ARM site that there was a about a 8% code optimization savings with their ADS over GCC. I'm not sure what TrueStudio can offer, but there may be a possibility of gaining additional space for features by optimizing the code.

Sheer speculation on my part as I'm just looking into it.

Vince

On 9/3/19 5:49 PM, Dr. David Kirkby from Kirkby Microwave Ltd wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 at 18:18, Rune Broberg <mihtjel@...> wrote:

Hello David,
following a request to add better calibration to my app for the NanoVNA, I
have implemented it in the software, but using "ideal" calibration
standards as the reference, as I have nothing better to go on.

I understand from your post that relevant data would be C0-3 of opens, and
offset delays on opens and shorts. Would there be any correction data for a
load? Could you perhaps give an example of values, so I can use appropriate
units for the input fields?
Hi,

The delays offset delays, which are going to be in ps, are likely to be in
the range 0 to 200 ps, but I would suggest the software accept values in
the range of at least -200 to +200 ps. Negative values are very rare but
can have their uses. A very crude female N open standard would have a
negative value for the delay. A resolution of 0.01 ps is necessary.

The values of C0, C1, C2 and C3 should be in the range -10000 to +10000.
It is normal in modern VNA to refer to a female short as being "SHORT -F-"

A value for the load would be a good idea, especially if someone wanted to
work in 75 ohms.

The coefficients of the kits can be found on the Keysight website here



I would suggest you read the values from the column marked "*PNA, ENA,
FieldFox" *as they are defined in the modern format, where the male short,
like that, supplied with the NanoVNA kit, "SHORT -M-" There was an older
convention, that reversed the gender, but all modern VNAs would use that.

Here I will provide links to the kits I suggest are implemented in the
firmware, without the user having to enter them, as these kits are common.

*85033D/D 3.5 mm cal kit. *
85033D/E - the 85033D, 85033E use the same coefficients. So do some other
high-end kits, but you can ignore them.


You can ignore the inductance of the short, and also the loss terms. These
are all going to be negligible at 900 MHz.

** 85032B N cal kit*


Note that one significant difference between these two kits is the 85032B
(N kit) has different coefficients for the male and female parts, whereas
the 85033D/E (3.5 mm kit) has the same coefficients for each.

When one presses the "SHORT" on the screen, you want a menu that offers the
choice of "SHORT -M-" or "SHORT -F-" so the user selects whether the
shorts, and opens are male or female. This is unnecessary on the 85033D/E,
as the coefficients are the same.

*APC7*
For completeness, you might want to define an APC7 cal kit. It's not that
common now, but one can often pick up cheap RF parts with APC7 connectors
on them. The 85031B kit would be the most common. But there are a ton of
APC7 cal kits that are goin to be almost identical



*An annoying problem - I'm not sure the best way around this. *

All the Keysight kits assume that the delay of the thru standard is zero.
This is true if one cable is male and the other female. When performing a
calibration with a female-female adapter, or a male-male adapter, one needs
to take into account the delay of that adapter. It might be best, when one
selects thru, one gets a menue like this.

THRU (0)
THRU (41.232 ps)

with the 41.232 ps being able to be changed if one wanted. THRU (0) would
be used if one cabee is male and the other female, and THRU (41.232) if
there's a female-female bullet in there. It is really annoying in the HP
VNAs I have, that there's no way to define the delay of the thru except by
copying the calibration kit to a user cal kit, then modifying it in there.

I hope you can find the time to help.
I hope that's some help. The equations for the phase shift caused by a
given amount of capacitance is in this document. Just be aware, the gender
of the connectors in that document will be something like "SHORT (F)" which
indicates the test port is female, and the standard is female. Later
Agilent switched to the format used by other manufacturers - namely "SHORT
-M-", with hyphens rather than parentheses.



The phase shift caused by an offset delay is easy to work out.

Thanks,
--
Rune / 5Q5R
Dave


Re: Early app for the NanoVNA

 

Hi Rune --

I just tried Calibration in your latest. "Through" and "Isolation" are greyed out.
When I look at the code, it appears the buttons are there, but there doesn't seem
to be any code to deal with them yet, so being greyed out was not surprising.

I went through the procedure with "Closed", "Open", and "Load" and when I clicked
"Apply" I got:

NanoVNASaver 0.0.4
Copyright (C) 2019 Rune B. Broberg
This program comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This program is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 3

See for further details
Max thread count 4
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/local/lib/nanovnasaver/Calibration.py", line 104, in calculate
if self.app.calibration.calculateCorrections():
File "/usr/local/lib/nanovnasaver/Calibration.py", line 151, in calculateCorrections
self.e00[i] = - ((g2*gm3 - g3*gm3)*g1*gm2 - (g2*g3*gm2 - g2*g3*gm3 - (g3*gm2 - g2*gm3)*g1)*gm1) / denominator
ZeroDivisionError: complex division by zero
Abort (core dumped)

I didn't try to debug to see what values actually get passed to line 151.

73 --
Harry, W5PNY


Re: Upgrade MCU from STM32F072C8T6 to STM32F303CCT6

 

On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 11:41 PM, Reginald Beardsley wrote:


Is this a pin compatible alternative? If it is, I'm ordering a 2nd unit from
China. And will be doing LQFP rework for the first time also. I had looked
for a pin compatible device myself, but got rather lost in ST's product
selector.

I did some calculations this morning and there is not enough RAM to add TDR to
the existing FW.. But an extra 24 KB would do the trick. It may be possible
to get a 1 microsecond time window and 100-125 ps time resolution with the
more powerful chip.

However, an alternate FW which just did TDR could provide 1 microsecond and
200-250 ps resolution on the current chip. That would be very useful in a
portable device. And at $35 cheap enough for only occasional use.

Have Fun!
Reg
If you need it, I can send you a NanoVNA with the STM32F303CCT6 installed.

hugen


NanoVNA RF Calibration Considerations and Procedure-v1.0 - Possible Typo?

 

Greetings All,

I would like to thank the authors of the subject document which IMHO clearly describes how to get started with the nanoVNA - it is a very helpful document!

I think I noticed a minor typo in ~Note 6~ which is as follows:

"Note 6:
Connect the two equal length Male-to-Male coaxial cables to CH0 and CH1 of the NanoVNA
with the Female-Female SMA connected to the free end of the cable connected to CH1. Dress
these cables away from the NanoVNA in a parallel line and do not let them cross."

I believe the intent was to state that the Female-Female SMA should be connected to the free end of the cable connected to CH0 not CH1 as stated.

The authors may wish to make a correction if appropriate.

Thanks again for this helpful document!

--
Best Regards,
Tom, VA7TA


Re: Early app for the NanoVNA

 

Hi Rune --

Just tried your latest version (0015Z - Sept. 4, 2019) and it looks quite nice! Haven't
tried the latest features you've judy added yet, but your app is looking really good to me.
I much prefer it the Windows apps for it -- especially since I'm an Ubuntu Linux user
who is dumping Windows for good.

73 --
Harry


Re: Upgrade MCU from STM32F072C8T6 to STM32F303CCT6

 

One could always use the serial port to control the nano via the console commands.

I would expect that the speed could be raised to 115200 baud from the 9600 baud default. It might require disabling the display, but if you're adding a larger display on the Pi Zero it doesn't matter.

In any case, the scripting language of your choice and gnuplot will produce very nice figures.