I just joined the group. I have built a Magloop for 20 and 40 meters
and it's great for taking camping! It is made from 20 feet of old RG-
8 coax which I am using the shield for the element and an old split
stator capacitor with a motor drive for tuning. Holding the motor
drive, capacitor, and RG-8 coax loop element are two 8 feet long
fiberglass round rods with a 3/8 inch bold running through both in
the middle to form a X shape which folds for transport. No more
slinging wire and rope in trees that might not be available and only
take 5 minutes to setup and start operating! No tuner required so
less stuff to take along. It outperforms mobile HF antennas and low
hanging dipoles. I am thinking about improving the design by making
the element of 3/4 inch copper plumbing pipe and make the shape to
just fit the inside of my truck bed for transport. The copper tubing
would work much better than the coax.

Hi There

Maybe you could try some of these links. :










Kind regards
Lui





<mcparkmob04@j...> wrote:

Will someone direct me to any write-ups on basic vhf rdf loop

antenna

theory? I want to find out how to best use a 6" diameter loop

antenna

with my handheld vhf reciever to locate signals in Search and

rescue

applications.

Will someone direct me to any write-ups on basic vhf rdf loop antenna
theory? I want to find out how to best use a 6" diameter loop antenna
with my handheld vhf reciever to locate signals in Search and rescue
applications.

开云体育

Ahhhh... BPL! Just say no! And file interference reports and more
interference reports and more interference reports... and mebbe even
drop a few cheap buzzers around the base of utility poles. Lean up
against them for hours calling "Breaker 19". Use them as convenient
hiding spots for foxhunt transmitters. Conduct a RACES exercise in
near proximity then file reports with CD authorities about all the
unwarranted and capricious interference.

BPL has to coexist with licensed services on a non-interfering basis
which it is not capable of doing therefore BPL has to go and so it
will. It's a bottom-line losing proposition for the utility companies.

73,

'Bear' NH7SR

--- In loopantennas@..., "Scott Savage KC7WDG"
<kc7wdg@c...> wrote:

*cough* BPL *cough*


not wireless in a sense in all points of the system but its an RF

trash generator

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Hebert
To: loopantennas@...
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 12:10 AM
Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Please add me back to the list


Wireless DSL??? First I've heard of that one. I would say that if
you're hearing it on the FR-200 there's probably a Part 15

violation

going on. It's probably being radiated from the telephone lines and
may be due to an excessively high signal level. Wireless broadband
devices (access points, routers and the like) should be

undetectable

on the FR-200 since they're based at 2.4 GHz or higher.

73,

'Bear' NH7SR

--- In

loopantennas@..., "Tom,webmaster,indigotalkradio"

<indigotalkradio@y...> wrote:

Jim in Ontario and To whom it may concern:

Please add my name back to the loop antennas
list.
As soon as I added another yahoo group I stopped
receiving messages from this list.

As to the buzzing from 570kHz-1150kHz and
3mHz-8mHz, Jim, thanks for the reply.
I just discovered yesterday that the wires at the
streetlight nearby had been vandalized, pulled
down, and cut, with water leaking into the entire
assembly. It is a electricution hazard and a fire
hazard. That explains why other residents have
the problem and why it is worse in rain. It has
nmothing to do with DSL, thankfully! However, in
bicycling around with a grundig FR-200, there
definitely are problems with some people who have
wireless DSL covering several homes yet the
"pitch is much higher" and not a "buzzing."

sincerely
-tom
--- Jim Dunstan <> wrote:

At 11:59 PM 8/10/04 -0700, you wrote:

Installation of DSL has caused terrible

overnight

buzzing from the 500's to about 1000kHz.

Phone company made adjustments at street and
house.

Buzzing on portable radios re-radiated in

vicinity


Hi:

I'm sorry I am no help re your problem... but I
will be reading the mail as
I am curious about your EMI situation and the
DSL installation. Does your
phone line come to your house via buried cable
or is an overhead line from
the pole? I have a DSL installation at this
location .... in fact the
outlet for the DSL modem and the modem itself
are located about 1 1/2 ft
from my operating position ..... I experience
no noise from it what so ever
.... however, I will check a little more
closely on the frequencies you
mention. By the way the phone line here comes
in via a buried cable (6
pairs) the local telephone company installed
about 3 or 4 years ago.

Now I did have some noise problem from the
telephone installation about 2
years ago. The distribution within the house
comes from the power
panel. That is they terminate the lines from
outside and distribute lines
within the house from that location. At one
point I had 4 lines terminated
from outside and 5 cables going off to
different locations within the
house. Over the years it became a rats nest of
connections and
wires. Even when the phone company installed
the new underground cable
from the lane the rats nest remained. Finally
I couldn't stand it any more
and I found a couple of 24 place barrier strips
in the junk box and I
mounted them on the wood backing of the power
panel. I then methodically
terminated the incoming lines and the internal
lines to the barrier
strips. I then drew up a schematic with the
termination numbers. I then
cross connected the terminals to effect the
desired distribution. I used a
'LED' test tool to make sure the polarity of
every line showed 'green' at
every telephone jack. Magically the noise
stopped and the terminations
really looked professional. When they came to
install the DSL service the
installer was amazed at the setup .... 'this
can't be our work' , he said!



Jim Dunstan
Thunder Bay, ON

=====
Tom, webmaster, indigotalkradio
www.geocities.com/indigotalkradio



_______________________________
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Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





--------------------------------------------------------------------

------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:


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c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

Service.

开云体育

Wireless DSL??? First I've heard of that one. I would say that if
you're hearing it on the FR-200 there's probably a Part 15 violation
going on. It's probably being radiated from the telephone lines and
may be due to an excessively high signal level. Wireless broadband
devices (access points, routers and the like) should be undetectable
on the FR-200 since they're based at 2.4 GHz or higher.

73,

'Bear' NH7SR

--- In loopantennas@..., "Tom,webmaster,indigotalkradio"
<indigotalkradio@y...> wrote:

Jim in Ontario and To whom it may concern:

Please add my name back to the loop antennas
list.
As soon as I added another yahoo group I stopped
receiving messages from this list.

As to the buzzing from 570kHz-1150kHz and
3mHz-8mHz, Jim, thanks for the reply.
I just discovered yesterday that the wires at the
streetlight nearby had been vandalized, pulled
down, and cut, with water leaking into the entire
assembly. It is a electricution hazard and a fire
hazard. That explains why other residents have
the problem and why it is worse in rain. It has
nmothing to do with DSL, thankfully! However, in
bicycling around with a grundig FR-200, there
definitely are problems with some people who have
wireless DSL covering several homes yet the
"pitch is much higher" and not a "buzzing."

sincerely
-tom
--- Jim Dunstan <> wrote:

At 11:59 PM 8/10/04 -0700, you wrote:

Installation of DSL has caused terrible

overnight

buzzing from the 500's to about 1000kHz.

Phone company made adjustments at street and
house.

Buzzing on portable radios re-radiated in

vicinity


Hi:

I'm sorry I am no help re your problem... but I
will be reading the mail as
I am curious about your EMI situation and the
DSL installation. Does your
phone line come to your house via buried cable
or is an overhead line from
the pole? I have a DSL installation at this
location .... in fact the
outlet for the DSL modem and the modem itself
are located about 1 1/2 ft
from my operating position ..... I experience
no noise from it what so ever
.... however, I will check a little more
closely on the frequencies you
mention. By the way the phone line here comes
in via a buried cable (6
pairs) the local telephone company installed
about 3 or 4 years ago.

Now I did have some noise problem from the
telephone installation about 2
years ago. The distribution within the house
comes from the power
panel. That is they terminate the lines from
outside and distribute lines
within the house from that location. At one
point I had 4 lines terminated
from outside and 5 cables going off to
different locations within the
house. Over the years it became a rats nest of
connections and
wires. Even when the phone company installed
the new underground cable
from the lane the rats nest remained. Finally
I couldn't stand it any more
and I found a couple of 24 place barrier strips
in the junk box and I
mounted them on the wood backing of the power
panel. I then methodically
terminated the incoming lines and the internal
lines to the barrier
strips. I then drew up a schematic with the
termination numbers. I then
cross connected the terminals to effect the
desired distribution. I used a
'LED' test tool to make sure the polarity of
every line showed 'green' at
every telephone jack. Magically the noise
stopped and the terminations
really looked professional. When they came to
install the DSL service the
installer was amazed at the setup .... 'this
can't be our work' , he said!



Jim Dunstan
Thunder Bay, ON

=====
Tom, webmaster, indigotalkradio
www.geocities.com/indigotalkradio



_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.

--- "Tom,webmaster,indigotalkradio" <indigotalkradio@...>
wrote:

Jim in Ontario and To whom it may concern:

Please add my name back to the loop antennas
list.
As soon as I added another yahoo group I stopped
receiving messages from this list.

Um... you -are- on the list. You are not on the "bouncing" list
either, and you are set to "individual emails" so there is no
reason on this end that you should not be getting messages.

Steve, listowner of the "new" loopantennas

=====
Steve Greenfield // Digital photography, scanning,
Polymorph Digital Photography // retouching, and photomorphing
253-318-2473 voice // to your specs.
polymorph@... //
// Based in Tacoma, WA, USA

Jim in Ontario and To whom it may concern:

Please add my name back to the loop antennas
list.
As soon as I added another yahoo group I stopped
receiving messages from this list.

As to the buzzing from 570kHz-1150kHz and
3mHz-8mHz, Jim, thanks for the reply.
I just discovered yesterday that the wires at the
streetlight nearby had been vandalized, pulled
down, and cut, with water leaking into the entire
assembly. It is a electricution hazard and a fire
hazard. That explains why other residents have
the problem and why it is worse in rain. It has
nmothing to do with DSL, thankfully! However, in
bicycling around with a grundig FR-200, there
definitely are problems with some people who have
wireless DSL covering several homes yet the
"pitch is much higher" and not a "buzzing."

sincerely
-tom
--- Jim Dunstan <> wrote:

At 11:59 PM 8/10/04 -0700, you wrote:

Installation of DSL has caused terrible

overnight

buzzing from the 500's to about 1000kHz.

Phone company made adjustments at street and
house.

Buzzing on portable radios re-radiated in

vicinity


Hi:

I'm sorry I am no help re your problem... but I
will be reading the mail as
I am curious about your EMI situation and the
DSL installation. Does your
phone line come to your house via buried cable
or is an overhead line from
the pole? I have a DSL installation at this
location .... in fact the
outlet for the DSL modem and the modem itself
are located about 1 1/2 ft
from my operating position ..... I experience
no noise from it what so ever
.... however, I will check a little more
closely on the frequencies you
mention. By the way the phone line here comes
in via a buried cable (6
pairs) the local telephone company installed
about 3 or 4 years ago.

Now I did have some noise problem from the
telephone installation about 2
years ago. The distribution within the house
comes from the power
panel. That is they terminate the lines from
outside and distribute lines
within the house from that location. At one
point I had 4 lines terminated
from outside and 5 cables going off to
different locations within the
house. Over the years it became a rats nest of
connections and
wires. Even when the phone company installed
the new underground cable
from the lane the rats nest remained. Finally
I couldn't stand it any more
and I found a couple of 24 place barrier strips
in the junk box and I
mounted them on the wood backing of the power
panel. I then methodically
terminated the incoming lines and the internal
lines to the barrier
strips. I then drew up a schematic with the
termination numbers. I then
cross connected the terminals to effect the
desired distribution. I used a
'LED' test tool to make sure the polarity of
every line showed 'green' at
every telephone jack. Magically the noise
stopped and the terminations
really looked professional. When they came to
install the DSL service the
installer was amazed at the setup .... 'this
can't be our work' , he said!



Jim Dunstan
Thunder Bay, ON

=====
Tom, webmaster, indigotalkradio
www.geocities.com/indigotalkradio



_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.

Tony, I took a folded dipole, (one using coax) opened it up and put it
in a hula hoop. It works well for me, especially on radios that accept
75 ohm inputs. An impedance matcher allows good reception with 300 ohm
inputs as well. Here's the text of my message from this other group. The
tilt feature I incorporated helps too.
John

Here's an idea that I had that works well for me for FM. It is made of
coax cable so the impedance will be low to begin with, (whatever the
impedance of the cable is) RG-58a/u works for me. Anything will work as
long as it is not too big, (you'll see why) If You have a hula-hoop
handy, pull out the plug that splices it together. Install a half inch
PVC "T" on one end. Take 18-20 feet of the coax, (depending on how much
lead cable you need, about 9 feet will be in the loop). Bare back the
lead end of the cable so just a 1/4 inch of bare center conductor is
showing. Thread this end through the hula-hoop and tee until it just
protrudes out the other end. At this point, carefully bare a small area
of the coax shielding where it first entered the hula-hoop. Solder the
bared center conductor end back to the bared spot on the shield.
Incorporating the tee in this joint so that the lead in cable comes out
the center of the tee is the tricky part. Leave yourself enough cable to
work with when soldering and, if the coax is small gage, it will easily
go back in the hoop when the tee is made up. A little tape will make the
tee fitting snugger, the idea being that this antenna will TILT as will
as be directional. I've found this to be an important feature.
Flattening this arrangement down, (no hula-hoop) works well too. It, in
effect, becomes a coaxial folded dipole, (75ohm) If this is used with a
radio that takes a 300 ohm balanced input, just add a matcher, I
guarantee this will be worth the effort!

TONY,

Instead of a Loop Antenna, try using a basic (Ready Made)
300 Ohm TV Twin Lead "FM" Folded Dipole Antenna.
(Cost about $3)

The FM Folded Dipole Antenna can be layed out Horizontally
or 'formed' around a Hula Hoop.

Then the FM Folded Dipole can be rotated for the best Null
of the unwanted FM Station, or for the best Peak Signal of
the wanted FM Station.

READ: FM Reception and FM Relex Antenna


READ: The Search... For FM Radio Reception Excellence !



iane ~ RHF
.
.
= = = In loopantennas@...,
= = = "Tony" <Plutonyum@v...> wrote:

I posted this on the other group, but did not know if I was

sounding

too crazy here.

I wanted to know if there was any way to design a loop antenna for
the FM broadcast band (88-108 MHz) which would have the same

nulling

ability/technique as the Radio Shack AM loop or the Terk loop on

the

AM broadcast band. Another example would be comparable to the

Palomar

loops, or something I could construct myself. I want something

that

has the ability to null out the stronger stations in favor of the
more distant ones. I know this is a popular/common aspect with LW

&

AM broadcast antennas, but what about 88-108 MHz?
I am aware of an array which would consist of at least 2 Yagis,

but

do not have the space to implement/employ such. Again, the key is
nulling out the strong stations.

Does such a concept exist? I would like to null out some of the

semi-

local (roughly 40 miles away) FM stations to allow reception of

other

stations.

Please let me know, & thanks in advance.

Tony

.

These kind of antennas for the 3meter band (88-108 MHz) are usually not
called loops but square dipoles. If you make a metal square with sides of 50
cm., slit the bottom in in the middle and connect your feed wires to the
receiver to these two points you automatically have a tuned, directional
sensitive antenna, with the right feed impedance. You might want a 1:1 balun
to connect your 50-75 Ohm coax to it. No capacitor is needed. The bandwidth
will be such that you can receive the complete band with it, but at the
sides you will have some attenuation. By changing the length of the sides
you can make it sensitive for a specific section of the band.
A circular version can also be made, provided the length of the conductor is
200 cm's.

On remark about Q and bandwidth. The Q is a quality factor, independent of
the frequency. It gives the relation of bandwidth and center frequency. So
a Q factor that give a bandwidth of 10kHz at 1MHz will give 1 MHz at 100 MHz
center frequency. If you ever succeed in achieving this , which I doubt, you
will not have any problem with the modulation being filtered out.

regards,

Cor Beijersbergen van Henegouwen

Tony,

You could probably use the same construction method
and calculations used for MW and LW loops but the
problem you might have is that the Q would be too
high. AM signals found on MW are about 10KhZ wide
while FM signals are 200KHz wide. From what I hear a
good loop has a Q that gives you a 25KHz bandwidth (or
better). You would loose much of the FM signal and
since it is frequency modulated it may be
indisguishable. You could purposely decrease the Q to
widen the received bandwidth by adding resistance
across the loop; but this would end up decreasing the
nulling effect that the loop has and defeat the whole
purpose of the loop in the first place.

I just started reading up on loops 6 months ago so I
could be wrong. It may be that the bandwidth is
actually a percentage of the received frequency in
which case the loop would work. I'm sure the other
guys in the group will correct me if I'm wrong.

Steve




--- Tony <Plutonyum@...> wrote:

I posted this on the other group, but did not know
if I was sounding
too crazy here.

I wanted to know if there was any way to design a
loop antenna for
the FM broadcast band (88-108 MHz) which would have
the same nulling
ability/technique as the Radio Shack AM loop or the
Terk loop on the
AM broadcast band. Another example would be
comparable to the Palomar
loops, or something I could construct myself. I want
something that
has the ability to null out the stronger stations in
favor of the
more distant ones. I know this is a popular/common
aspect with LW &
AM broadcast antennas, but what about 88-108 MHz?
I am aware of an array which would consist of at
least 2 Yagis, but
do not have the space to implement/employ such.
Again, the key is
nulling out the strong stations.

Does such a concept exist? I would like to null out
some of the semi-
local (roughly 40 miles away) FM stations to allow
reception of other
stations.

Please let me know, & thanks in advance.

Tony

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!

I posted this on the other group, but did not know if I was sounding
too crazy here.

I wanted to know if there was any way to design a loop antenna for
the FM broadcast band (88-108 MHz) which would have the same nulling
ability/technique as the Radio Shack AM loop or the Terk loop on the
AM broadcast band. Another example would be comparable to the Palomar
loops, or something I could construct myself. I want something that
has the ability to null out the stronger stations in favor of the
more distant ones. I know this is a popular/common aspect with LW &
AM broadcast antennas, but what about 88-108 MHz?
I am aware of an array which would consist of at least 2 Yagis, but
do not have the space to implement/employ such. Again, the key is
nulling out the strong stations.

Does such a concept exist? I would like to null out some of the semi-
local (roughly 40 miles away) FM stations to allow reception of other
stations.

Please let me know, & thanks in advance.

Tony

At 12:37 AM 8/29/04 +0000, you wrote:

I have noticed that the Kiwa loop along with other loops can be
tilted in the axis of the null. Does this help to increase the null
of certain stations or does it have another purpose? Maybe null
skywave reception?

Steve Baker??????????????????????

Hi Steve ... I guess the answer is yes.? I don't have a knowledge of the theoretical aspects of the interaction of incoming radio waves and their interaction with a loop in various planes ... however I know from experience that under some circumstances it will improve the reception situation.? When I use my loop for daytime DX reception the objective is usually to maximize the received signal and reduce local noise .... in this situation I have noticed very little difference in performance when tilting the loop from the vertical plane (i have noticed some).? Under these conditions all of the received stations are coming in with basically the same kind of wave front and I never hear more than one station on a frequency.? Under these conditions the receiver used is also not critical.? Receivers with a built in antenna but with good gain (SR-III for example) are perfectly useable.? In fact mutual coupling between the external loop and the internal loop/antenna is more than adequate.

Night time DX is the situation in which I notice the greatest effect; stations are coming in from all over and I can hear more than one station on most of the frequencies.? In some cases it is possible to reduce the strength of one station in relation to another by fiddling with the orientation of the loop.? The SR-III won't work since its internal loop antenna counteracts the effect of the external loop.

A second observation is that in order to take advantage of this effect the loop not only needs Hi-Q, but it also needs precision mechanical means for tuning and adjustment of the planes of the loop.? The mechanical adjustments are more difficult to achieve the larger the loop.? I believe that the precision construction of the Kiwa loop is one of the main reasons for its success (and high cost). They overcome the loss of signal due to small size with a built in pre-amplifier.? Couple this kind of loop to a quality receiver that requires an antenna input in order to receive any signal and then what it hears is solely what the loop delivers.

Loops I have built are generally good at the first situation and the pits for the second.? A loop that is wobbly when adjusting it just doesn't cut it.? I have tried smaller loops and clamped the base to a camera tripod with some success.? However I guess I don't have a really precision or robust tripod !!? I would like to have one that uses gear drives for the adjustment of angle and azimuth with the strength to handle a 4' loop.? With a crank in each hand I could see myself like a submarine driver hi hi ? This is a job for a machinist not an electronics technician hi hi ..

Jim Dunstan
Thunder Bay, ON

Hi
I have got a sony icf 2010 and used as antenna an external horizontal
wire about 14 meters in lentgh based on 2 aluminium mast 5 meters in
height(+insulators).The problem is that this antenna picked up much
noises and also Iam not be able to grounded antenna and receiver.
any suggestion about an indoor or outdoor antenna?

Thanks

Yiannis

Signals frequently come in at an angle. The ability to tilt the loop
gives you the ability to capitalize on this phenomenon. Often you
can get a higher peak or deeper null with a tilted loop.

John Nelson

I have noticed that the Kiwa loop along with other loops can be
tilted in the axis of the null. Does this help to increase the null
of certain stations or does it have another purpose? Maybe null
skywave reception?

Steve Baker

开云体育

Lupu,

A VHF/UHF fractal antenna is a very, very small animal indeed!
Dimensions and angles are extremely critical.

The only information source I have encountered that actually gives
design information is...

<>

and they require a subscription to get the info on the fractal
antenna.

Sorry I couldn't help you more.

73,

'Bear' NH7SR

--- In loopantennas@..., "Lupu Valerian" <vali_lupu@y...>
wrote:

Does anyone has a schematics for a VHF/UHF multiband fractal

antenna.

I'm very interesting to build one. Thank's.