Re: 160 meters with AT1000Proll
Les,
?
I've never run an EFHW antenna but I have an AT1000ProII, 315' EF (non-resonant) wire with a DG0SA-designed 9:1 unun that I built. I used my nanoVNA Ultra to obtain a good 160m SWR and performance. I noticed that the AT1000ProII's tuning range is less on 160m than what it provides on other bands. In particular, it doesn't handle low impedance on 160m very well and I've read online (DJ0IP's websites) that poor low impedance matching is a common limitation with auto tuners in general--particularly on the low bands. It took a bit of work, even with the 315' wire, to find a good counterpoise length using choke placement. I've tried much shorter wires but 315' has worked the best for 160m and all ham frequencies are under 3:1 with my current 315' wire w/ coax counterpoise setup--easily within range of my AT1000ProII.
?
My antenna is not an EFHW like you're running but, without getting into too many details right now, a choke and/or counterpoise can be useful with EFHW antennas too. Have you tried using them as an antenna tuning aid? I don't know what length EFHW wire wire you're using but a multiband EFHW antenna is running a bit like a "random" or "long" wire outside of its harmonic sweet spots! Retired DEC? engineers, "Bob^2" (W1IS and KC1DSQ / ) have made made many public lectures about antennas and you'll find some of them on YouTube. They have posted materials and articles on their website that might be useful to you. I've had great luck tuning my EF "long" wire using chokes and a counterpoise segment, which W1IS and KC1DSQ also advocate for an EFHW. I think it might be worth trying a 36:1 unun, as discussed by Bob^2 too, if you've been using 49:1. There's an example here with a coax counterpoise realized using a choke:
but checkout their entire website.
?
BTW, my LDG AT1000ProII could never tune 160m with my previous 80m OCF antenna (not one of the super fancy Bob^2 OCF designs--just the simple B10 hybrid dual balun that DJ0IP reported to work well in his "Battle of the Baluns" on-line article feeding plain wire with no caps, etc.).
?
73,
Cal (AD8Q)
?
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Re: 160 meters with AT1000Proll
?With regards to SWR readings- are they being read on the tuner in use? I use an AT1000P2 and an AT600P2, both show SWR reading vastly different than my rigs, my amps and in-line SWR meters. The latter 3 are in close agreement. On some bands/antenna combinations, the LDGs are pegged, the rest of the meters show less than 1.5 to 1. No amount of cable changing or ferrites can clear it up.
Comparing the LDG to a 991B, the MFJ claims a wider range. I don't think there is anything wrong with your LDG, just asking it to do something it's not designed for.?
Mike N3PM
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Re: Z-11ProII with two transceivers
Thanks for answers to all!
About my switch - i'm use Daiwa CS-201A 2 Position Coax Switch form Amazon, judging by the reviews, it provides quite sufficient isolation of the disconnected device.
About LDG device - yes, Z-11ProII was bought for FT-891, since it does not have a built-in tuner - but in this scheme I plan to use it with FTDX10, since an external tuner is better than an internal one in any case ( i hope so).
For "separate" use I have a control cable for FT891 (Y-ACC-1) and now Y-ACC-2 for DX10 is on the way.
I will not use them in this scheme, since the tuner can be tuned without them.
Thanks, Maksym, UT3UDX
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IT-100 vs. AT-200ProII and RFI
I will try to make this as brief as possible, but anyone who has worked in support dreads nothing more than the "It's broke! What's wrong?" message.
?
Common Items
- IC-7300, 100 watts. SSB only.
- 2 Ulitmax 100 end-end antennas (49') , call them AntA and AntB (not Ishmael).
- Apex of both about 19'. End points are about 12' above ground. One runs east-west, the other north-south.
- Coax for each antenna is run to a window passthrough.?
- The tuner, IC-7300, and other XCVRs each have a 5/16" copper flat strap going from the device ground connection to a single point connection on a 2-foot long copper tube.
- The USB port of the IC-7300 was connected to the computer to interface with the N3JFP logging program (aka ACLog).
IT-100 Setup
- From the passthrough, the two coaxes went to a manual A/B switch.?
- The single output of the switch went to a line isolator (Ultimax)
- The output of isolator went to the IT-100
- The output of the tuner went to the IC-7300
- The single point connection was routed through the passthrough to an 8' copper grounding rod about 6' away with about 2" showing above ground.
RFI Issues: NONE, save one CO2 detector triggering when working around 7.180 MHz.
?
AT-200ProII Setup
I bought the 200ProII so that I could quickly switch between the two antennas after tuning each to the same frequency. Sometimes AntA did better, other times AntB was better.
?
- From the passthrough, each coax went into its own line isolator, 1-foot coax was used to go from passthrough to isolator.
- The coax from each isolator was run to one of the two antenna inputs on the tuner.
- The output of the tuner went to the IC-7300.
- The single-point connection was not connected to the external ground round. After a multitude of "Grounding" and "Bonding" articles and YouTube videos, I felt like the guy in that famous painting, "The Scream." The disconnect from the ground rod was advised since a lightning strike finding a path to the rod would also see a way to get into the shack.
RFI Issues: MANY.
My wife could hear my transmissions through stand speakers upstairs.
All the CO2 detectors went off when working 7/14/28 MHz.
Transmitting caused the computer to open GMail! I don't even use it.
?
I went back to the IT-100, hooking one of the antennas directly into it, no switch, and repeated my tests.
The only problem was a very faint pickup by the speakers on 14 MHz (Assuming a similar TV, set the sound setting to 2 - that was the volume in the speaker).? The CO2 detectors were all quiet on the household front.
?
I'm looking for any insights, thoughts, things to try, and so on. In particular why the problems when using the 200ProII? I would really like to be able to use it.?
?
Thanks
Brian D. Warner
WB0NWZ
?
?
?
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Re: 160 meters with AT1000Proll
Remember the basic rule of using odd quarter wavelengths for feedlines and also dedicated single band wire antennas. ? My LDG tunes across 160m to 6m w/o problems; but then I have a Endfed Multi-band Fractal Wire antenna and switching to a 6m Yagi or using the wire antenna for 6m, as well and the feedline is rather long rolled up into a balun at the base of the antenna masts. ? For 160m I had experienced similar problems with short feedlines. ? For 6m the feedlines were too long so I now have about a 110 foot feedline and that allowed operation using wire across 160-6m with the typical difficulty of 20m regardless of whatever tuner one uses. ? W4JDY ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Les Long N8LES via groups.io Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 9:48 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [ldgelectronics] 160 meters with AT1000Proll ? Brian no resolution. Talked to Mark at LDG and all he could offer was to add more coax (feed line). -------- Original message -------- Date: 12/1/24 9:24 AM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [ldgelectronics] 160 meters with AT1000Proll Did you find a resolution to this problem Les? I've had a similar issue with an LDG-1000ProII on 160m since install November of 2023. Mine also seems to be displaying the wrong SWR at 160m so I'm tracking down other topics here.
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Re: 160 meters with AT1000Proll
No I unhooked the LDG and put my MFJ back in line. It tunes 160
with no problem. I bought the LDG because the MFJ didn't do 6
meters. The LDG doesn't work very well on 6 meters either. The
internal tuner in my 7300 is able to touch up the swr on 6 meters.
So disappointed in the LDG.
On 12/1/2024 7:20 PM, Paul-Ka5pmv via
groups.io wrote:
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I had trouble getting my AT1000 to tune my 160M
loop.? I was experimenting with various baluns.? I have 100ft of
LMR400 going to a 1:1 choke, then a 4:1 balun, then 30ft of
450ohm ladder line up to the corner of the loop.? A full wave
loop is supposed to be around 100 ohms, which would seem like a
better match would be a 2:1 balun, however, there is the 450 ohm
ladder line, so not sure what the actual impedance is.? I tried
1:1, 2:1, 4:1, and the tuner would only tune if I was using a
4:1 balun.
Have you tried analyzing your EFHW with a NanoVNA or other
analyzer to see what the SWR and impedance is?
Brian no resolution. Talked to Mark at LDG
and all he could offer was to add more coax (feed line).
Les N8LES?
-------- Original message --------
Date: 12/1/24 9:24 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [ldgelectronics] 160 meters with
AT1000Proll
Did you find a resolution to this problem Les? I've had
a similar issue with an LDG-1000ProII on 160m since
install November of 2023. Mine also seems to be displaying
the wrong SWR at 160m so I'm tracking down other topics
here.
?
73
Brian
KB9TBB
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Re: Z-11ProII with two transceivers
Alpha Delta, or a Bird coaxial sleeve type switch.? I use both.
?
Dave WA4WX
?
I would use nothing less than an Alpha-Delta switch. Try not to transmit into the grounded unused switch position.
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Re: Z-11ProII with two transceivers
I would use nothing less than an Alpha-Delta switch. Try not to transmit into the grounded unused switch position.
Mike? N3PM
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Re: 160 meters with AT1000Proll
I had trouble getting my AT1000 to tune my 160M loop.? I was experimenting with various baluns.? I have 100ft of LMR400 going to a 1:1 choke, then a 4:1 balun, then 30ft of 450ohm ladder line up to the corner of the loop.? A full wave loop is supposed to be around 100 ohms, which would seem like a better match would be a 2:1 balun, however, there is the 450 ohm ladder line, so not sure what the actual impedance is.? I tried 1:1, 2:1, 4:1, and the tuner would only tune if I was using a 4:1 balun. Have you tried analyzing your EFHW with a NanoVNA or other analyzer to see what the SWR and impedance is?
Brian no resolution. Talked to Mark at LDG and all he could offer was to add more coax (feed line).
Les N8LES?
-------- Original message -------- Date: 12/1/24 9:24 AM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [ldgelectronics] 160 meters with AT1000Proll
Did you find a resolution to this problem Les? I've had a similar issue with an LDG-1000ProII on 160m since install November of 2023. Mine also seems to be displaying the wrong SWR at 160m so I'm tracking down other topics here.
?
73
Brian
KB9TBB
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Re: Z-11ProII with two transceivers
Yes switching between rigs will work fine.??
The Z11 in auto mode when sees RF from the transmitter then samples the SWR and if above 1.5:1 will automatically tune.? No control cables are needed although does work better if you have them.? Many rigs in tune mode put out lower power for the tuners to tune, but can use the Z11 without the control cables.
73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE/R Hernando Co ARES EC
Spring Hill, Florida also n9ee55@...
On Sunday, December 1, 2024 at 11:23:58 AM EST, Maksym Shaposhnikov via groups.io <shaposhnikoff@...> wrote:
I want to use a Z-11ProII with two transceivers - will this setup work?
All grounded, no control cables from radio to tuner.
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Re: Z-11ProII with two transceivers
Have to be sure the switch has a good isolation rating, I wouldn¡¯t want to ruin one receiver or the other.
?
Dave WA4WX
?
I want to use a Z-11ProII with two transceivers - will this setup work?
All grounded, no control cables from radio to tuner.
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Z-11ProII with two transceivers
I want to use a Z-11ProII with two transceivers - will this setup work?
All grounded, no control cables from radio to tuner.
|
Re: 160 meters with AT1000Proll
Brian no resolution. Talked to Mark at LDG and all he could offer was to add more coax (feed line).
Les N8LES?
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-------- Original message -------- From: Brian Schousek <brian@...> Date: 12/1/24 9:24 AM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [ldgelectronics] 160 meters with AT1000Proll
Did you find a resolution to this problem Les? I've had a similar issue with an LDG-1000ProII on 160m since install November of 2023. Mine also seems to be displaying the wrong SWR at 160m so I'm tracking down other topics here.
?
73
Brian
KB9TBB
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Re: 160 meters with AT1000Proll
Did you find a resolution to this problem Les? I've had a similar issue with an LDG-1000ProII on 160m since install November of 2023. Mine also seems to be displaying the wrong SWR at 160m so I'm tracking down other topics here.
?
73
Brian
KB9TBB
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Re: Vertical Antenna Project Planning
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On Fri, Nov 29, 2024 at 11:04?AM David McGaw via <david.g.mcgaw= [email protected]> wrote:
Vertical antennas give poor coverage close-in as their null is
straight up.? A OCFD or EFHW may have complex lobes, but they will
have some vertical radiation on odd harmonics.? A good reason to
have more than one antenna.? :-)
73,
David N1HAC
On 11/29/24 10:02 AM, Chuck Cole via
wrote:
I
know that?100w is enough, and am familiar with the fact that
antennas boost both reception and transmission while
amplifiers do not help reception.? I have no need or desire to
own an amplifier for my 3 FT-991a's.
73
Chuck
K4TZO
100 watts will get you farther than what you
think.? You might try dx you would be surprised where you
can talk
FYI - My CHA-250hd multiband vertical
doesn't seem to do as well for my nearest 1000 miles on
80m and 40m as my EFHW. it's fine for DX, beyond that,
but I don't do DX. I don't run high power either.. just
100w.? K4TZO
On Fri, Nov 29, 2024,
1:42 AM Jim Snider < w8bs@...>
wrote:
Looking at a possible
antenna change.? Rig is Icom IC-7300 feeding an
AL-80B, into a LDG AT-1000 pro II Tuner.?
Current antenna is 160 meter OCF.? ?I have the
IC-PAC cable between the radio and tuner.? I
always match the antenna with the amp in standby
using the tuner button on the radio.
I¡¯m thinking about
the Zero-Five 43 foot vertical.? Tom recommends
the AT-1000 Pro with his antenna when using an
amp.? Most articles recommend a remote tuner for
the 43 foot vertical mounted at the base to
minimize coax losses.? My install may use 250 of
coax.
I¡¯m wondering about
doing it this way.? Get a rain-tight Hoffman
junction box and mount the antenna¡¯s unun and
the 1000 Pro tuner in the box.? Using
multi-conductor cable splice the IC-PAC cable
and run it along with the RG-8 out to the
tuner/unun box.? I would then still use the
Tuner button on the IC-7300 to tune the system
before taking the amp off standby.? I can use
the SWR readout on the IC-7300 to make sure we
have a match.??
The ultimate way is a
remote high-power tuner but as you know, no body
makes one anymore.? I¡¯m thinking this would be
the next best thing.
Jim W8BS
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Re: Vertical Antenna Project Planning
I did the same thing with an AT-1000 ProII and my 756 Pro III to tune a 20¡¯ OCF flagpole.? I didn¡¯t have an amp and had a much shorter run, but it worked well.? I put the tuner and balun in a poly storage container.? I ultimately replaced that setup with an RT-600 mainly because I was concerned that the poly storage container wasn¡¯t weatherproof enough due to cuts I had to make to get it all to fit.? I was too cheap to buy a good Hoffman box. ? Al K5TAN ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jim Snider
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2024 7:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [ldgelectronics] Vertical Antenna Project Planning? Looking at a possible antenna change.? Rig is Icom IC-7300 feeding an AL-80B, into a LDG AT-1000 pro II Tuner. ?Current antenna is 160 meter OCF.? ?I have the IC-PAC cable between the radio and tuner.? I always match the antenna with the amp in standby using the tuner button on the radio. I¡¯m thinking about the Zero-Five 43 foot vertical.? Tom recommends the AT-1000 Pro with his antenna when using an amp.? Most articles recommend a remote tuner for the 43 foot vertical mounted at the base to minimize coax losses.? My install may use 250 of coax. I¡¯m wondering about doing it this way.? Get a rain-tight Hoffman junction box and mount the antenna¡¯s unun and the 1000 Pro tuner in the box.? Using multi-conductor cable splice the IC-PAC cable and run it along with the RG-8 out to the tuner/unun box.? I would then still use the Tuner button on the IC-7300 to tune the system before taking the amp off standby.? I can use the SWR readout on the IC-7300 to make sure we have a match.?? The ultimate way is a remote high-power tuner but as you know, no body makes one anymore.? I¡¯m thinking this would be the next best thing. ? Jim W8BS
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Re: Vertical Antenna Project Planning
Vertical antennas give poor coverage close-in as their null is
straight up.? A OCFD or EFHW may have complex lobes, but they will
have some vertical radiation on odd harmonics.? A good reason to
have more than one antenna.? :-)
73,
David N1HAC
On 11/29/24 10:02 AM, Chuck Cole via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I
know that?100w is enough, and am familiar with the fact that
antennas boost both reception and transmission while
amplifiers do not help reception.? I have no need or desire to
own an amplifier for my 3 FT-991a's.
73
Chuck
K4TZO
100 watts will get you farther than what you
think.? You might try dx you would be surprised where you
can talk
FYI - My CHA-250hd multiband vertical
doesn't seem to do as well for my nearest 1000 miles on
80m and 40m as my EFHW. it's fine for DX, beyond that,
but I don't do DX. I don't run high power either.. just
100w.? K4TZO
On Fri, Nov 29, 2024,
1:42 AM Jim Snider < w8bs@...>
wrote:
Looking at a possible
antenna change.? Rig is Icom IC-7300 feeding an
AL-80B, into a LDG AT-1000 pro II Tuner.?
Current antenna is 160 meter OCF.? ?I have the
IC-PAC cable between the radio and tuner.? I
always match the antenna with the amp in standby
using the tuner button on the radio.
I¡¯m thinking about
the Zero-Five 43 foot vertical.? Tom recommends
the AT-1000 Pro with his antenna when using an
amp.? Most articles recommend a remote tuner for
the 43 foot vertical mounted at the base to
minimize coax losses.? My install may use 250 of
coax.
I¡¯m wondering about
doing it this way.? Get a rain-tight Hoffman
junction box and mount the antenna¡¯s unun and
the 1000 Pro tuner in the box.? Using
multi-conductor cable splice the IC-PAC cable
and run it along with the RG-8 out to the
tuner/unun box.? I would then still use the
Tuner button on the IC-7300 to tune the system
before taking the amp off standby.? I can use
the SWR readout on the IC-7300 to make sure we
have a match.??
The ultimate way is a
remote high-power tuner but as you know, no body
makes one anymore.? I¡¯m thinking this would be
the next best thing.
Jim W8BS
|
Re: Vertical Antenna Project Planning
?
My concern would be voltage drop and possibly interference on the tuner interface wire. Maybe larger gauge extension, shielded.
I have used desk top units outside, with battery/solar power.
I'd be looking at a bias-tee setup but, I know you want the convenience of the tuning arrangement.
Mike N3PM
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Re: Vertical Antenna Project Planning
Hi Jim - Maybe solicit advice from LDG regarding your proposed setup?
Greg, K3EA
Looking at a possible antenna change.? Rig is Icom IC-7300 feeding an AL-80B, into a LDG AT-1000 pro II Tuner.? Current antenna is 160 meter OCF.? ?I have the IC-PAC cable between the radio and tuner.? I always match the antenna
with the amp in standby using the tuner button on the radio.
I¡¯m thinking about the Zero-Five 43 foot vertical.? Tom recommends the AT-1000 Pro with his antenna when using an amp.? Most articles recommend a remote tuner for the 43 foot vertical mounted at the base to minimize coax losses.?
My install may use 250 of coax.
I¡¯m wondering about doing it this way.? Get a rain-tight Hoffman junction box and mount the antenna¡¯s unun and the 1000 Pro tuner in the box.? Using multi-conductor cable splice the IC-PAC cable and run it along with the RG-8
out to the tuner/unun box.? I would then still use the Tuner button on the IC-7300 to tune the system before taking the amp off standby.? I can use the SWR readout on the IC-7300 to make sure we have a match.??
The ultimate way is a remote high-power tuner but as you know, no body makes one anymore.? I¡¯m thinking this would be the next best thing.
Jim W8BS
|
Re: Vertical Antenna Project Planning
I know that?100w is enough, and am familiar with the fact that antennas boost both reception and transmission while amplifiers do not help reception.? I have no need or desire to own an amplifier for my 3 FT-991a's.
73
Chuck K4TZO
100 watts will get you farther than what you think.? You might try dx you would be surprised where you can talk
FYI - My CHA-250hd multiband vertical doesn't seem to do as well for my nearest 1000 miles on 80m and 40m as my EFHW. it's fine for DX, beyond that, but I don't do DX. I don't run high power either.. just 100w.? K4TZO
On Fri, Nov 29, 2024, 1:42 AM Jim Snider < w8bs@...> wrote:
Looking at a possible antenna change.? Rig is Icom IC-7300 feeding an AL-80B, into a LDG AT-1000 pro II Tuner.? Current antenna is 160 meter OCF.? ?I have the IC-PAC cable between the radio and tuner.? I always match the antenna
with the amp in standby using the tuner button on the radio.
I¡¯m thinking about the Zero-Five 43 foot vertical.? Tom recommends the AT-1000 Pro with his antenna when using an amp.? Most articles recommend a remote tuner for the 43 foot vertical mounted at the base to minimize coax losses.?
My install may use 250 of coax.
I¡¯m wondering about doing it this way.? Get a rain-tight Hoffman junction box and mount the antenna¡¯s unun and the 1000 Pro tuner in the box.? Using multi-conductor cable splice the IC-PAC cable and run it along with the RG-8
out to the tuner/unun box.? I would then still use the Tuner button on the IC-7300 to tune the system before taking the amp off standby.? I can use the SWR readout on the IC-7300 to make sure we have a match.??
The ultimate way is a remote high-power tuner but as you know, no body makes one anymore.? I¡¯m thinking this would be the next best thing.
Jim W8BS
|
Maksym Shaposhnikov
W4JDY1953_G
Les Long N8LES
Chuck Cole
David McGaw