TurnoutBoss 2.0 Update.
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So with this tariff deal I canceled the order from China (got to complicated) and the US supplier is not responsive so we redesigned TB so it is much easier for me to build them at home. It now uses SOIC integrated circuits so it grew a bit but we also reduced part count elsewhere. It will now offer the following: 1) Signals A-D with G/Y/R plus Lunar Lights 2) Servo Drive as well as stall motor drive (you must supply the 5V power for the servo through a screw connector) 3) Barrett Hill Touch Toggle Interface (other input controls could be substituted if needed) 4) 3 current (amps) based detectors for the previously included block detectors 5) 1 optical block detector interface 6) 0-2 turnout feedback sensor inputs (no feedback sensors, one sensor or 2 sensors) 7) 1 or 2 pushbutton turnout control inputs (your choice toggle with 1 or individual for each direction) Here are some 3D images of the new board: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JsB2pF6CgugMkl3p03ELmgwshpNhru7d/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TpHakkiLuo5PdJyw36lliE6ewYfY_Y9p/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WoyWW26_5smZnijcCTs4_utBwmrHoyU4/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aPAJhFd6ZDAEEk0hJG8lMi9oWowqw1ej/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lBW45xPa1aY7NVbaiiJ4DT-ekv5ROaF7/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yWFfHGGldK4k50ihX-6hLPLM2ktozunF/view?usp=sharing If you have not heard about this before here is some info on what this LCC node will do: https://drive.google.com/file/d/12K3jsdJ4diqzBGjHEXsU5cIWWHoTAvs7/view?usp=drive_link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H7TqttrZnYRZBe7oEutzJL6zLCzH3XLN/view?usp=drive_link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P2TNEoLM9zw6gqEsB-cAp22m1l1eXIb2/view?usp=drive_link If you contacted me about buying some please PM me with confirmation you still want them and if you did not and these new features make it appealing let me know so I can get the parts and board on order. Right now the price will still be $90 each. I don't want to take your money until I have board in hand but I do want an accurate count for how many to buy. Thanks, Jim
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LCC tools is great
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I had completely forgotten about the LCCtools app and to my surprise it can be used to adjust the ServoIO board. This is really handy for adjusting the servo throw when leaning over the layout. -- Kelly R. Regan Georgetown Branch Model Railroad FullScale Home Inspection
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A Short allgory for LCC
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In 1903, Dr. Horatio Jackson of Vermont made a bet in San Francisco that he could drive a new-fangled automobile from San Francisco to New York. That had never been done at that time, and many thought it impossible. In May 1903 Horatio started out without a map or any guidance except local directions. He had no formal roads, just paths and sometimes the railroad to follow. He had to have gasoline delivered by Wells Fargo or sometimes by rail. Through many trials, he made it to New York, beating two other teams supported by Auto mobile companies. In less than 10 years, the AAA was formed, road maps were available and hard surfaced roads with definite signs were everywhere. The mobile nation was going everywhere. The thirties were a time for public works and many highways were put in. Later after WW2, Eisenhower got the Interstate Highway system started. All of this because one man showed it could be done. LCC may be at the point of “see we can do this.” We have many installations that prove the concept. What we do not have is a strong Ecosystem to guide users along the way. We need Road Maps to take users on the journey from start to finish. I do not see the videos as the kind of road map needed. When traveling in a car, we don’t look at videos, we look at maps, paper or digital. In the future we may have guidance like the Google oy Ways, but we need to concentrate on real road maps first. Nothing substitutes for a reference you can flip back and forth to find what you want. And t deviate off-course once in a while. (If you want to watch Horatio’s journey find the movie “Horatio’s Drive.”) Dana Zimmerli
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DIY modules what are people looking for?
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After trying out the Arduino Nano modular approach with LCC examples. To move forward it seems a logical move to either ESP32 or Pi Pico's for modular future modules, I am keen to stay with Can at the moment as I am involved with clubs that run exhibition layouts, and are concerned about Wi-Fi. There are other MCU's that could be used, but trying to cover lots of MCU's cause other issues with library examples. What would be interesting is to hear from other who maybe interested in trying out such modules in the future. What would you be interested in seeing these able to do? The thing to remember is the more complex the module the more complex the CDI configuration in JMRI. I feel limiting each module to a maximum of 8 servo's is key to avoid using long servo cable runs. Do we look at separate channels for Inputs and outputs to make the CDI easier to use?
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ESD Protection of Boards
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I have been swirling on the design of this new board that Bob J and I are working with ESD protection. My previous working life job was high reliability military electronics and I spent much of my career on failure review boards so I have hyper sensitive to what _could_ happen to unprotected pins to the outside world. I have been looking at current commercial boards and very few of them have any sort of electrostatic discharge protection on the IO pins. I have an ask of both designers and users. How many failures of IO pins has anyone seen in the real world of model railroading electronics? Is this a non problem these days with modern integrated circuits or have you seen high failure rates of boards and/or IO pins? This is a cost and build complexity though experiment for me. Thanks, Jim
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Two articles from MERG
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Hi All -- Andrew Crosland and John Callingham had two articles in the latest MERG Journal detailing LCC. I asked permission to post them here, and was supplied with watermarked copies. In my opinion, Andrew does a very clear and concise introduction to LCC, and then shows his SERVOIO-LCC product as an example. John describes his journey adapting the OpenLCB-Single_Thread library to make a turnout controller that includes frog control. Cheers David
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LCC, etc.RE: [LayoutCommandControl] A Short allgory for LCC
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I believe, based on clinics and the book, that a series needs to be defined. My cut is: LCC Basics: Producer/Consumer, Events, Network connections, the simplest network (both RR-Cirkits and SPROG have starter kits), connection and Configuration, and Firmware Update. Overview of Boards available – include Power, USB-LCC connections, SMD boards, Occupancy detection, SignalLCC First efforts in Configuration – JMRI LccPro walk theough the various informATION, use an IO board to see how to configure buttons and LEDs. Also, maybe the QuickLink button. Controlling Turnouts – Buttons and turnouts -- Both RR-Cirkits and Servo with SPROG? NX Cascade principles – Buttons (clearing before setting), setting the Cascade and chain. Signalling Part 1 – Inouts for signals – block occupancy, Track Circuits, etc. Signal terms – Hewad, Mast, Aspect, Appearance etc. Source of the aspect definitions. All as used un LCC boards. Signalling Part 2 – This gets into Logic – do we jump into STL as implemented or go for the original? Light Effects – Basics of Real Time Clocksa and EFX16. Overview of the TSC Train Control – Need to address Virtual Train Nodes and Function Descrtioyion. Okay, I’m Tired. This is a long way when limited to a two or three page article. Now it is open for suggestions. I do believe the beginner needs to play with a simple network before leaping into a full blown latout. From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Alex Shepherd via groups.io Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LayoutCommandControl] A Short allgory for LCC Hi Team, Here’s another email that has been in my Draft folder for months but needs to go out... It’s probably timely to raise another related topic/discussion. During the SurfLiner NMRA convention and subsequent LCC discussions, I was asked to coordinate the creation of a series of LCC “How-To” articles for the NMRA Magazine, suitable for new people wanting to experiment with "dipping their toe(s)" into LCC. I didn’t raise this before now, as I’ve been pretty slammed at work with several significant projects that weren’t supposed to happen concurrently. Alas, they did, so I’ve not had much spare headspace for the last few months. However, I’m starting to see "light at the end of the tunnel” now, so it's probably time to start the discussion/brainstorming. The goal is to produce a series (say six or so) of “How-To” articles that are simple, reasonably self-contained or limited in scope so as not to overwhelm the reader. Mark Juett has given some example articles, but he’s hoping for something similar to the DCC and similar articles in the NMRA Magazine. We have several sources of information within the LCC Community, including YouTube Series, Articles in various Magazines, content on OpenLCB, Clinics, and the LayoutCommandControl and OpenLCB 开云体育 folders. We also have Dana’s revised LCC Book. I have a small N-Scale test track loop on a hollow-core door. It has two sidings (4 turnouts) and 16 blocks. It has as much LCC stuff as I can fit to experiment with. I should be able to use that to produce a few articles, but it would be helpful to hear from people who have recently entered the LCC world and what sorts of tutorials/articles might be helpful, and develop a bit of a curriculum. Regards Alex Shepherd On 6 Dec 2024, at 2:00 PM, Dana via groups.io <dwzimmerli@...> wrote: In 1903, Dr. Horatio Jackson of Vermont made a bet in San Francisco that he could drive a new-fangled automobile from San Francisco to New York. That had never been done at that time, and many thought it impossible. In May 1903 Horatio started out without a map or any guidance except local directions. He had no formal roads, just paths and sometimes the railroad to follow. He had to have gasoline delivered by Wells Fargo or sometimes by rail. Through many trials, he made it to New York, beating two other teams supported by Auto mobile companies. In less than 10 years, the AAA was formed, road maps were available and hard surfaced roads with def
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Clinics at the PCR Convention
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If anyone is interested … I gave these two clinics. Recordedf and now on YouTube. Derived from the book refertenced. Intro to Layout Command Control - Dana Zimmerli https://youtu.be/KOCLowwAUeI How to Use Layout Command Control - Dana Zimmerli https://youtu.be/_zBLHkpG2LE
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File /LCC Topics/LCC Topics - READ ME.pdf updated
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#file-notice
The following items have been updated in the Files area of the [email protected] group. /LCC Topics/LCC Topics - READ ME.pdf By: Mark Granville <mfgranville@...> Description: An explanation of LCC Topics and list of references
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Tower LCC+Q Logic Operation
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In the Tower LCC there is a logic operation V1 and then V2. What is the equivalent logic operators to perform this in Tower LL+Q? Wayne
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Tunr BUtton QL Off and only light the Button to the Yard Track
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Tower LCC SMD-8 Button QL - set up to only show green when selected. Solder point for only the green light. I am trying to set up a Yard Ladder where the only Button QL is lite on the selected track I had communications with Dick 2-3 years ago when I first set up my yard latter. I did not implement the one button push at that time. I was told that the first event should be set up to turn off all the Button lights and then only light the button on the selected track. when the turnouts are aligned... I don't seem to be able to get the lights to all turn off. I am not sure how to set up the CDI for the event that turns the light off. I find literature for setting up the yard latter with the cascade event, but don't see any info on turning all the lights off and only showing the selected track. Has anyone set up a CDI to accomplish this project? Steve NJ
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New Book
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If anyone is interested, there is a new book at Amazon. It has basic info and advanced. Especially note the new info on STL logic and Fast Clocks. I did check the STL info pretty carefully; It is more accurate trhan the TowerLCC+Q Manual from RR-CirKits. I did an LCC centric look at Train Control as well. If you find serious errors report them to me. Dana W Zimmerli President Belmont Shore Model Railroad Club http://www.belmontshorerr.com/ See our video at: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz0u5DihLyw-ZsmWrsrQnxA?view_as=subscriber
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Servo turnout control options
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I am considering changing to servos to control my turnouts. The layout is powered with a TCS 105. I want turnout routing in the yards via a single push button per track. Push 1 button to align multiple turnouts. I don’t need LED turnout indicators if that matters. I currently do this with DCC addressed stall motors and a NCE mini panel but would like to replace that with an LCC option. What are my options for something like this? Thank you for the help. -- Kelly R. Regan Georgetown Branch Model Railroad FullScale Home Inspection
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Working up blocks and gaps
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Attached is an existing layout that I am working on to signalize with LCC. We have ordered Signal LCC and Bod4-CP components. We will use the CT Coil sets for detection. This is an O scale 2 rail layout in a large room approximately 20’ by 80’. Current DCC control is a 10 AMP NCE system I have several questions and am open to all answers and even learning where I’ve made proper or improper assumptions. 1. It appears that I will need to consolidate some of the existing drops for proper detection. 2. Have I identified the proper locations for isolation? 3. Can I continue to use the already utilized NCE switch 8’s or do I need to shift turnout control to the Bod-CP? 4. If I can still use the Switch 8’s how do I translate turnout status to the Bod4-CP Thomas Cain, MMR 755 Indianapolis, IN atsf93@... See my layout and website at: www.atsf93.com Modeling the Eastern Illinois Santa Fe from the prototype
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Intro to LCC - Rocky Mountain Train Show
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In case anyone is interested, I'll be doing another Intro to LCC tomorrow, Saturday, at the Rocky Mountain Train Show in Denver CO. Will be presenting at 2:00 - 3:00pm in the Centennial Room. Will have my demo layout there with me, and available and happy to talk LCC after the presentation. -Detlef
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Adding Servo control to TurnoutBoss in next spin
Would those using servos please join the TurnoutBoss list? The tariff thing has put a pause on the TB build which Bob and I are using to incorporate ideas from the announcement and finding cost reduction opportunities for a new spin until the tariff thing settles out. I have some questions about frequency, range, etc that works best. /g/TurnoutBoss Thanks Jim
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New Product for LCC Signaling
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Hi everyone, Over the last 6 months Bob Jacobsen and I have been developing a new LCC board that we hope will generate a lot of interest. It's aimed at people who want to do basic signaling without needed to know anything about how LCC events work. We have come up with a board which we call the TurnoutBoss. It is a board that has a specific job: do everything needed to handle a turnout/Control Point in a single package. That includes outputs for up to 4 signal heads; a stall motor switch machine driver; three CT occupancy detectors for detection around the turnout; push button inputs to operate the turnout; feedback sensor inputs for the position of the turnout; and the logic to make this all work together. It is possible to setup a fully operational basic signaling system by just a few presses of buttons on the boards. You can also use of JMRI or other computer-based configuration tool to do full configuration, but for simple installations you don’t have to. The board has the ability to be controlled via event consumers that drive the outputs for those who want to use external control logic. It handles LCC events for optional CTC panel control of the vital logic and turnout position. All events are predefined so if you do want to get in the weeds you don't have to first know what input/output and keep track of mappings you’ve made. For instance, you know which events control a particular signal output because it is pre-defined and connected to the layout in a specific way. To date I have funded 3 PWB spins and have built 7 boards by hand. This is a complex board to build by hand with small surface-mount parts. It takes me 3-4 hours to build, debug and test each board and I have decent equipment to do the job. Those boards are operational, with working firmware. Their basic operation has been tested on several LCC installations. They pass all the current LCC conformance checks. We are offering an opportunity to be part of a test run of 20 assembled boards. It could be more if there is interest. We don't want to be in the business of selling these but we would like to get some out into the real world. We want to prove out the design and see if they are useful before exploring ways of having them produced. If anyone is interested in these we are willing to work through the logistics of getting a small batch made and I will program, test and ship them out. Information can be found in these documents if you are interested. Overview Presentation: https://drive.google.com/file/d/12K3jsdJ4diqzBGjHEXsU5cIWWHoTAvs7/view?usp=drive_link User Manual: (in process) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P2TNEoLM9zw6gqEsB-cAp22m1l1eXIb2/view?usp=drive_link For this small build I think about $90 each will cover the builds and cover a bit of the time to test and get them ready to ship. If interested PM myself or Bob Thanks, Jim and Bob
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Long Distance Pushbutton issue when using same I/O for turnout control
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This is part of an ongoing issue I am having, and I've finally figured out what is causing the issue. TLDR; Assuming a firmware update can't fix the issue, how can a pushbutton be terminated to minimize interference? My setup: Note: Resistors are at the BOB-S. Pushbuttons are at the turnout and are connected to the BOB-S via twisted pairs (from ethernet cable) The pushbutton pair and tortoise power pair is in the same ethernet cable. Issue: Pushbuttons located close (approx. <20 feet) to the node control the turnouts fine. Pushbuttons located further than about 20 feet only have one "stable" state. When they are switched, they will go back to the "stable" state anywhere between near instantly to several seconds. Here is a video of the issue both from the hardware pushbutton and in JMRI. https://youtu.be/_NuH25PoJ0c To verify, on the BOB-S, I swapped the button for one that is closer and gave the closer turnout the button that was further away. The problem followed the input with the most distant pushbutton. This is also an issue on a separate node, also a Signal 32H: the four most distant turnouts only have one "stable" state. If I separate the buttons to a separate Tower LCC board, everything works fine. But in the interest of minimizing cost, I'd like to use the single IO port for both pushbutton input and turnout control. It seems like something is building up on the inputs that eventually causes the node to think there is a low. I tried putting various resistors from about 25K to 1M ohm across the pushbutton but that didn't help. Could a capacitor at the pushbutton possibly eliminate the issue? Or near the BOB-S? What type/value would you recommend?
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Newbie needs a shopping list
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I am new to this group, LCC and JMRI. I am getting back into the hobby after a 10-year hiatus. I would like some advice on the electronic equipment I will need for my layout. Basically, I need a shopping list. I currently have a 15-year-old DCC Digitrax Zephyr and a bunch of Tortoises. I DO NOT have to use the Zephyr on this in the new layout but would like to if there is a way to incorporate it. Layout summary: - About 800’ of track when finished - Three major sections/power districts that will be built one at a time - Two reversing loops - Total of about 75 turnouts, 9 in section 1. What I want to accomplish with LCC: - Tortoise machines for every turnout - Block detection for the entire layout, including individual yard tracks - Signals appropriate for current day Union Pacific operations - Automatic route selection - Ability to have 3 operators - Eventually automate trains (probably no more than 2 or 3 at a time) What do I need?
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48 I/O Arduino Mega Node
Previously I showed a 47 I/O node that had various selections. I have since reworked the sketch so its 48 I/O while it was possible to push this to 53 Digital I/O. By sticking to 48 it allowed me to separate them down to 6 banks of 8. Big shout out to David for the assistance. While this only allows for 1 event to be taught to a single pin. This will work great for my current needs. I next plan to try and adapt one of David's examples he showed me for a 13 output node which had 40 possible teaching actions. This will scale up nicely for various LED animations on my layout in the future.
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