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FTDX5000 with LA1K
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Hello Friends,
Am wondering if any of you are using the FTDX5000 with the LA-1K? Reason why im asking is i am getting frequent BYPASS amp cut outs on FT8/SSB/CW with minimum drive and dont know why. I have the QSK time in the radio set to 30ms. I do not use full break in and my semi for CW is set to 500 (quite long so no hot switching) and i never use VOX for SSB. Amp always goes into BYPASS at the START of the TX. Sometimes even at the end not so much. This tells me its got something to do with possibility of overshoot, however, at 10w drive, how? I also notice at the start of the TX, the AMP shows a slightly higher hang at the start of the TX then drops to proper power for the rest of the TX on FT8. This could be an indicator of the FTDX either overshooting or putting out a slightly more power right at the start and fooling the amp into it looking like something is wrong. Note that it is not SWR BYPASS, but just a flashing BYPASS randomly. Its kinda getting on my nerves for DXing right when it BYPASSes i send my report which the DX doesnt hear and just 10 watts goes out to the DX. Frustrating. Thanks. Barry VE6UM |
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On Thu, Jun 22, 2023 at 01:44 PM, Barry wrote:
This could be an indicatorI pair my LA-1K with a MFJ-998, as seen on my QRZ page with a FT-857D as the exciter.? In doing manual tuning with the MFJ-998, my LA-1K is on STBY mode, with my FT-857D in FM mode and RF power set at 20W.? When keying up the exciter, I can tell the orange-ish power bar on my LA-1K touch-screen display reaching immediately to the left of the "20" mark (almost touching the number 2) on the amp's RF power scale.? Accordingly, I'd think you can check the possible RF power output transience characteristics of your FTDX5000 in like manner. 73, Ray KJ5MI |
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Note that you will always hot-switch the input relay of the LA-1K in "Normal" CW mode regardless of your transceiver settings. You transceiver will also see an "open circuit" for 20ms at the beginning of the CW transmission.
Here is a little discussion of the problem of hot switching in Normal mode CW from my website. 73 .... Bill K3HZP |
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What about SSB?? On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 09:29 Bill K3HZP <hzp_electronics@...> wrote: Note that you will always hot-switch the input relay of the LA-1K in "Normal" CW mode regardless of your transceiver settings.? You transceiver will also see an "open circuit" for 20ms at the beginning of the CW transmission. |
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Also Bill. Note that I am using direct mode with my yaesu ftdx 5000. Im wondering if anyone using the ftdx with direct keying has bypass issues.? Thanks On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 10:49 Barry via <barplo=[email protected]> wrote:
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Hi Bill, Exactly is why i went direct mode. Here is the thing. In rf sensing it bypasses immediately. So i was pretty much forced into direct mode right from the start. What’s interesting is, on a friends icom756pro rf sensing works 100% so this is why im asking if others out there are using this amp with the ftdx5000.? It doesn’t alway go into bypass either. Its totally random and its not an SWR bypass. Does it all modes all bands. Most of the time its fine, but it likes to go into bypass right when i send the exchange and causes me nothing but headache when it does. Because it does it always seems at the wrong times. So random. I also did the overshoot 9v battery alc thing. No difference. My radio is also set to 30ms for the delay and makes no difference.? I am puzzled, why on the icom its fine but not my ftdx5000. 73 Barry On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 11:40 Bill K3HZP <hzp_electronics@...> wrote: Barry, |
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Barry,
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The only think that I ever heard "not to do" from Palstar is to not key the amp with 2 key lines. Use one or the other but not both. I don't know why. In direct mode you may be accidentally keying the amp with 2 key lines? Out of ideas! 73 & GL .... Bill K3HZP ---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Barry" <barplo@...> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [la1k] FTDX5000 with LA1K Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2023 11:46:37 -0600 Hi Bill, Exactly is why i went direct mode. Here is the thing. In rf sensing it bypasses immediately. So i was pretty much forced into direct mode right from the start. What’s interesting is, on a friends icom756pro rf sensing works 100% so this is why im asking if others out there are using this amp with the ftdx5000.? It doesn’t alway go into bypass either. Its totally random and its not an SWR bypass. Does it all modes all bands. Most of the time its fine, but it likes to go into bypass right when i send the exchange and causes me nothing but headache when it does. Because it does it always seems at the wrong times. So random. I also did the overshoot 9v battery alc thing. No difference. My radio is also set to 30ms for the delay and makes no difference.? I am puzzled, why on the icom its fine but not my ftdx5000. 73Barry On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 11:40 Bill K3HZP <hzp_electronics@...> wrote: Barry, If you using direct mode, things should be fine.? Maybe someone with an LA-1K can help. Normal mode is not as much a problem in SSB.? The rise time of voice is slower, and the transmission does not usually start at max power like CW. ? ? ?73 .... Bill K3HZP |
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Hello Barry,
Please check out this post /g/la1k/ Maybe the same corrective actions would work for your FTDX5000 situation? A better corrective action is for Palstar to eliminate the LA-1K amp's "threshold value" problem that's a nonissue with other solid-state HF amplifiers, such as my Ameritron ALS-600 that I paired with my ICOM IC-7300 (acquired both brand new in 2016) for years; never did the amplifier/transceiver ALC arrangements, as Mark suggested above. Since the IC-7300 is such a popular transceiver from day-1, one would think HF amplifier manufacturers should have accomplished an all-exhaustive compatibility testing of their amps (marketed after 2016) with the IC-7300.? For example, in their Application Note (as early as June 2018) "KPA1500 Connections to the Icom IC-7300" , Elecraft states in part, "While the KPA1500 can accommodate it, there is no need to use the ALC connection with the KPA1500 unless the transceiver vendor requires its use."? Accordingly, I don't use ALC connection to pair the FTDX101D with my KPA1500. Oh just to see it for myself, I have captured the RF power transience as observed on my ICOM IC-7300 in this video clip , earlier today; please note RF power out had reached close to 75+% and 90+% on two (2) separate occasions, with the IC-7300 RF POWER setting = 40%. I would have done a similar experience with my FTDX101D to see its RF power transience, unfortunately the FTDX101D power meter doesn't show peak power.? Barry, I have read somewhere that power meters of other high-end YAESU transceivers, like yours, can be configured to read peak power, so you might be able to see if there is any much-elevated RF power transience on your FTDX5000. 73, Ray KJ5MI |
开云体育Hi Ray, ? REF: ."? Palstar's suggested corrective actions: "He suggested using an ALC connection between the ICOM transceivers and the LA-1K, and playing with the ALC settings on both the ICOM transceivers and the LA-1K to find a value that stops the RF OVERLOAD peaks.” ? BARRY> I Also Contacted Palstar and Mark told me not to use ALC on CW as ALC is only for SSB. ? “A better corrective action is for Palstar to eliminate the LA-1K amp's "threshold value" problem that's a nonissue with other solid-state HF amplifiers, such as my Ameritron ALS-600 that I paired with my ICOM IC-7300 (acquired both brand new in 2016) for years; never did the amplifier/transceiver ALC arrangements, as Mark suggested above.” ? BARRY> I agree, but we still don’t know that’s the issue with the FTDX-5000. ICOM IC-7300 is not the FTDX-5000 and not to be rude here but, I was asking if anyone out there is using the FTDX-5000 integration with the Palstar LA-1K. This I would like to find out from others using same radio and amp. I would like to hear Their experiences as at this point, I am thinking of using a Scope on my radio to get down to finding out just what the heck is going on. Both of these pieces of Gear are not LOW END and I would expect both of them to be fully operation without “Hiccups” sort of speak. Something is just not right here and if another Operator using FTDX-5000 with LA-1K integration, I am looking for their experiences. Not saying your information is invalid, as could be right on course, but I have played around with the Audio and ALC on radio, I even tried connecting an ALC cord just to test it all out and made adjustments on the radio and Amp and made no difference. ? I shouldn’t have to use an ALC cord with this amp anyways, but tried it with no success. ? ? “Barry, I have read somewhere that power meters of other high-end YAESU transceivers, like yours, can be configured to read peak power, so you might be able to see if there is any much-elevated RF power transience on your FTDX5000.” ? BARRY> I will use a scope on it for that. Not my scope and is not easy to get one over here from a person I don’t even know, is why I wanted to post Anyone out There reading this using the 2 together first. ? I cant help to think, the LA-1K is just too sensitive for protective measures. But, I could be wrong and its my FTDX-5000 causing the BYPASS. ? I also sent an email to Yaesu if they are aware of any Overshoot or overpower of radio during key up. ? 73 Barry VE6UM ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of tuneupmagic (null) via groups.io
Sent: June 24, 2023 1:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [la1k] FTDX5000 with LA1K ? On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 01:46 PM, Barry wrote:
Hello Barry, |
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On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 05:47 PM, Barry wrote:
I cant help to think, the LA-1K is just too sensitive for protective measures. But, I could be wrong and its my FTDX-5000 causing the BYPASS.Hi Barry, I seriously doubt it's your FTDX1500 that is causing the BYPASS.? In this 3-May-23 post /g/la1k/message/1257 I shared my FTDX101D / LA-1K experience with a fellow victim of the LA-1K BYPASS anomaly, stating in part, "I believe the LA-1K protection circuitry is way too conservative, and needs to be optimized to match the performance of my dirt cheap Ameritron ALS-600S."? This video clip captured one such anomaly literally just days after I took delivery of my brand new LA-1K, acquired directly from Palstar back in January 2023. Found this 7-Jan-2021 (2+ years earlier) post /g/la1k/message/645 in which Peter N4UP (using the Yaesu FTdx5000mp) writing in part, "I have swapped out the LA-1K for another SS Amp ( TokyoHyPower ) and the THP SS Amp works flawlessly." While the LA-1K seems to work okay with my low-end FT-857D transceiver, sounds like it sure has some critical compatibility issues with high-end transceivers. Oh btw unlike the LA-1K, my brand new Elecraft KPA1500 and the FTDX101D have been working perfectly together since day one!? Here's a video clip capturing my dynamite KPA1500/FTDX101D combo in action this 2023 field day making contact with KJ4KKB a moment ago on 40M; with the exciter power set at 33W, the amp's power output, as shown in its status display, reaching as high as 1373W on peak.? No issues of any kind.. just pure fun on field day. 73, Ray KJ5MI |
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A few months back, I encountered overshoot problems while operating the LA-1K amplifier, driving it with an IC-7300 transceiver with 40 watts in SSB. Upon further investigation, I learned that the IC-7300 is notorious for its overshoot issues. I decided to purchase an FTDX-10 transceiver, and I'm happy to report that I no longer experience any bypass or overshoot problems with the LA-1K amplifier. The amplifier is functioning precisely as advertised, and I am thoroughly satisfied with its performance. And I'm also very happy with FTDX-DX as well. WW8X Joe |
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On Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 10:55 AM, Joe Loverti WW8X wrote:
I learned that the IC-7300 is notorious for its overshoot issues.Good point, Joe, I'd like to take this opportunity to share with everyone.. there is a cautionary note on this product page stating in part, "Even when output power is turned down, many 100 watt transceivers send out an instantaneous high power RF pulse that will blow out the Solid State final transistors of this amplifier. So why wouldn't we see a similar cautionary note on the LA-1K product page advising prospective purchasers that quite a few 100W transceivers operating at the specified "Input Drive Level: 45W - 55W" have been known to produce a RF power transience high enough to cause an unwanted BYPASS in the LA-1K amplifier? Oh btw, that's a rhetorical question. 73, Ray KJ5MI |
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Good point, Joe, I'd like to take this opportunity to share with everyone.. there is a cautionary note on this product page??stating in part, "Even when output power is turned down,?many 100 watt transceivers send out an instantaneous high power RF pulse?that will blow out the Solid State final transistors of this amplifier. The BLA350 finals are power FET's and the LA1K uses a pair of LD-MOS devices.? I don't think you can do a apples to apples comparison.? Everything I have read seems to indicate LD-MOS devices are more rugged than FET's.?? There is an interesting video on YouTube from the 2018 Dayton Hamvention.? The presenter was introducing the NEW LA-1K and relates an extreme condition that caused damage but did not destroy the LD-MOS devices.? It's at about the 4:47 point in the video.? I've been using my LA-1K with my 7300 since March of 2019.? I have a band data cable attached and do not use the ALC line.? Pleased overall with operation but YMMV. 73, Allen, W9DZ |
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This is good?news. Apparently the FTDX5000 of mine may have this overshoot issue as well. I need to scope it to be certain. If so, i may be upgrading to the FTDX-10.? Barry VE6UM? On Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 08:55 Joe Loverti WW8X <jloverti@...> wrote:
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开云体育Just for info, the FT-991A that Rob Sherwood tested did not exhibit overshoot either.73, Kent K9ZTV ? On 6/26/2023 3:15 PM, Barry wrote:
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On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 02:44 PM, Allen Jones wrote:
The BLA350 finals are power FET's and the LA1K uses a pair of LD-MOS devices.? I don't think you can do a apples to apples comparison.? Everything I have read seems to indicate LD-MOS devices are more rugged than FET's.??Hello Allen, In their datasheet the OEM referred to the device in question as "RF Power Field Effect Transistors"? In other words, the LA-1K is also using field effect transistor (FET); more precisely for the device in question "N-Channel Enhancement-Mode Lateral MOSFETs" where MOS stands for Metal Oxide Semiconductor. All that device physic talk aside, I had absolutely no intention to do "a apples to apples comparison" between the two amplifiers.? I was simply asking a rhetorical question why wouldn't we see a similar cautionary note on Palstar's LA-1K product page to advise prospective purchasers of Mr. Mark Ward (Palstar technician) acknowledging that, according to this post /g/la1k/ Said anomaly isn't the damage of their N-Channel Enhancement-Mode Lateral MOSFETs (referred to as LDMOS in Palstar's literature) installed in the LA-1K. 73, Ray KJ5MI |
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Hey, Ray...It seems like you put in a considerable amount of time and effort criticizing the LA-1K's specifications, documentation, and customer support. How about this suggestion: Why not sell your LA-1K and let the rest of us deal with the things you don't like about it? Problems solved. On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 7:04?PM tuneupmagic (null) via <tuneupmagic=[email protected]> wrote: On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 02:44 PM, Allen Jones wrote: |
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Points well taken, Joe!? Instead of getting rid of my LA-1K, as Peter N4UP appeared to have done with his LA-1K (see his post /g/la1k/message/645) I happen to have kept my low-end now-out-of-production YAESU FT-857D that seems to work okay with the LA-1K, so I have decided to keep the two of them around as backup and use for all those casual operating situations, as well.
For my beloved high-end top-of-the-line YAESU FTDX101D (top-ranking on as of this writing) I have paired it with the high-end top-of-the-line KPA1500 amplifier.? Life's good! 73, Ray KJ5MI |
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To you all:?
Just letting everyone know that the issue using my FTDX5000 and the LA1K amp is resolved by the support of my local ham radio experts. I could not have resolved this issue without them and would like to share it with those of you who may also be running these in combination.? First off, the issue was, the LA1K was constantly (since day 1 going into bypass for no apparent reason). One would think, it was the Amp doing this. It was not. Im no expert or technician so will to the best of my knowledge try to explain this the best i can. There was no extra obstructions or devices other than the test equipment along the coax during these tests. The problem occurred even with a dummy load (SWR BYPASS as well as BYPASS) between the radio and the amp. What is happening is, (and the only way to find this out was with a scope and a RIGOL). My FTDX5000 sends out a transient 250hz pulse for approx 1.3 microsecond of each TX. Because the amp wont be operational outside of the Ham Bands, and 250hz is outside, it kept going into bypass which by design, the LA1K is built for. The solution was to, install a HF band pass filter (from 1.8-34Mhz) between the FTDX5000 and the LA1K. This blocks the transient from being sent to the LA1K and has now been trouble free. No more Bypass!!!!? What is interesting about this BYPASS is that it would occassionally send a SWR BYPASS which would make one believe it was antenna or coax or whatever you may think but, that also went away and i believe the SWRBYPASS was due to this transient as i no longer have SWR BYPASS either. I gotta say, this issue has been quite the PAIN and would make one either get rid of the LA1K or the FTDX5000 and i dont want to part with either. Why my FTDX5000 is sending out this transient signal is beyond everyone involved and we all agreed this was the best solution to the issue (money wise) and I am happy.? Possibly this information could be of value to others in the community. 73 Barry VE6UM |
Bill K3HZP
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