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Hello Everyone and Thank You in advance for your time answering my post. I know this post seems rather vague but figured I got to start somewhere. I currently have a set up in JMRI Ops Pro that I'm embarrassed to say, I think I may have bit off too much at one time. I can build Trains and view the switchlist but with errors and/or issues of which I'm not sure how to resolve. Ops Pro is an AWESOME and am very excited to get it running for my layout, I'm just not sure where to go from here. I don't mean to be such a knob but any help I can get is greatly appreciated. Again, Thank You for your help.

System Configuration:
Device name DESKTOP-9452OFP
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 5500U with Radeon Graphics 2.10 GHz
Installed RAM 8.00 GB (7.34 GB usable)
Device ID 9CF6C9CF-1CC3-453B-9AC9-267A30434245
Product ID 00325-82189-49410-AAOEM
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Pen and touch Pen and touch support with 10 touch points

Windows Specifications:
Edition Windows 10 Home
Version 22H2
Installed on ?8/?19/?2021
OS build 19045.2846
Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.4190.0

Mel

Hey Mel,

Is there a specific question for which we may try to help?? If it is just a train not building correctly, try providing the build report generating the errors/issues for us to analyze...

Or at the very least, copy and paste the error message...

Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>??

Hi Pete. Thank You for getting back to me. I have attached two files, one is the switchlist for the Dayton Transfer Job coming from staging, the other is the Build Report for this job. To help you better understand what I'm trying to do, my layout is a 13'x18' three times around single track mainline with 5 passing sidings and a small Yard (Arnold Yard). There is also a 4 track staging Yard underneath Arnold Yard for which I am super excited to incorporate into my operations plan using JMRI Ops Pro. What I'm ultimately trying to do like so many other Model Railroaders is to have cars coming onto the layout via staging or interchange to serve the different industries then move off the layout via staging or interchange. I would also like to use Ops Pro to rotate my rollingstock and Locomotives so everything gets used.

I have begun reading your Quick Start Guide which I believe has already helped to resolve some issues, so I'll keep reading this excellent guide. Thank You for your time in putting this together Pete, it has helped me a lot.

The questions I have (for now) are:
1.) How can I get the Dayton Transfer job to setout it's cars in the Arnold Yard arrival/departure track only, pick up the cars meant for it to go off the layout and return to an arrival track in staging? (I know, that's a mouth full!)
2.) Need I understand everything the Build Report is telling me or that will come in time?
3.) I am terrified to click the "Move" button once I have built a Train and created a switchlist as I'm afraid something will happen that I won't be able to recover from. Maybe I should try using the Demo files for this?
4.) Is how I have the switchlist configured i.e. Road, Number, Type, Lgth, Color, To, From, Blocking an ok way of doing things or am I creating more work for myself by doing it this way?

Thank You Pete for your time and patients helping me with all of this, it is so very much appreciated.

Mel

Well Mel,

I will be the first to admit that the fine work of writing the Quick Start Guide was not my doing!? It is extremely useful and I thoroughly digested it myself some time ago.? I am, however, the author for the short "How-to" guides that I hope help new users navigate some of the basics for set-up...

But enough of the platitudes and accolades, let's get to helping with the issues you have raised.

1.) How can I get the Dayton Transfer job to setout it's cars in the Arnold Yard arrival/departure track only?

You can tell a C/I track which trains are allowed to set out and pick up.? This is found in the Edit window for the particular track in question.? In your case, one of the cars (UP 161200) did?go into your Arnold Yd (Arr/Dep Trk 1), but this was because of how the program chooses tracks, not how you have things set up.? The good news is that it is not that hard to make this work all the time!

For each track where you do NOT wish the Dayton Transfr to place it's inbound cars, you simply "Exclude" that train from setting out. Here again, you select this option while in the specific "Edit C/I track" window.
Conversely, the tracks from which the Dayton Transfr should pull cars should "Allow only" this train to do pick ups.? This will take some trial and error to figure out exactly, but keep at it, and write it out if you so need.

Once you have the cars exchanging, you need to get the Transfer back to staging.

and return to an arrival track in staging?

If you create a staging-type track that allows only a certain train in and out (much the same set up as the C/I, using "allow only"), you can have the Transfer leave from, and return to, the same track.? From the build report, I see you have already selected the staging option that "makes departure track available after train is built".? This allows the train to return into the same track from which it departed.

2.) Need I understand everything the Build Report is telling me or that will come in time?

Short answer here is Nope!? The detail of the build report can be set to give more or less info for the report itself.? Since you have it set to "very detailed", you can leave it alone.? And since you are not using Custom loads (yet), you need not turn up the Router detail level at this point.? It just takes time to associate what you read in the report with the parts you set up in the program itself, so be patient and read those BRs a lot!

3.) I am terrified to click the "Move" button once I have built a Train and created a switchlist as I'm afraid something will happen that I won't be able to recover from. Maybe I should try using the Demo files for this?

I would caution you against trying to figure out the basics from the demo files.? My experience was that they were kind of confusing at first since they are fully fleshed out examples of how the program can do things.? So for now, I would get used to what you have built from what you can see in front of you.? As far as testing your trains, become friends with the "Back Up" button found at the bottom of the Settings window.? It is your Friend!? When you do a Manual backup, use a name that will be easy to re-type, like "train 123 test" (no Caps).? When the backup is created, the program will date and time stamp the named file, so you will know for sure which one you attempt to open each time.? Then run a train and see where it goes and what is does with the cars.? If you don't like the outcome, use the "restore" button (also at the bottom of the Settings window) to reload the railroad as it was before you "moved" or "terminated" a train.

4.) Is how I have the switchlist configured i.e. Road, Number, Type, Lgth, Color, To, From, Blocking an ok way of doing things or am I creating more work for myself by doing it this way?

Here again the short answer is... Leave it as it is.? As you explore more about what the program can do, you may wish to have the list formatted a different way, but for now, if you can read it ok, go with it!

Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>??

OK Pete, I'm working on the things you said in your last response as well as reading the Quick Start Guides and mulling over the Forum. I will be back with more questions. Thank You very much for your help, I'm feeling much better about all of this. Talk with You soon.

Mel

I'm not much more experienced than you, but one thing I found buried in a tutorial is that you need to reset car counts if there are failures. (if the build fails you won't break anything)
Try this: Operations=>Cars=>Tools=>Car Roster=>Reset Move Count All Cars
This will clear any locations that may have cars in the wrong place due to previous failed builds.? Note in your build report where it says this:?
Can't send (PFE 301527-2) to C/I (Class Trk 5) due to rolling stock length 58 feet, available track space 21 feet Can't send (PFE 301527-2) to C/I (Class Trk 4) due to rolling stock length 58 feet, available track space 1 feet This indicates the track is full.? Possibly from past build attempts.

Take a look at the car list and it will show the location, destination and the train it is assigned to.? If you terminate the train (check the box and click on "Terminate" at the bottom) the location of the cars are changed so they will only be available from that new location, and they will occupy space on that track possibly preventing setouts there.
That is where the reset function comes in, it will put all the cars back in their original locations.

Also, the error message could point to the cause, like "Could not find a departure staging track at Storage_3 that meets the train requirements".? That is an error I get when trying to build a train, telling me I need to look at the train or route for problems.? And no, I haven't fixed that part yet.? lol

Hope this helps, and it would be great to get feedback from more experienced folks.

Ken

Hi Ken and Thank You so very much for your feedback. This is sure to be a HUGE help as I have experienced the dreaded "Can't send (PFE 301527-2) to C/I (Class Trk 5) due to rolling stock length 58 feet" issue but was unaware of this fix until now. The thing I really like about Operations Pro is it will point me in the direction of the problem. I dealt a lot with this during my years as an Elevator Mechanic and loved it so this is right up my alley as I enjoy the "Chase" and learning how I can make Ops Pro work for me and do the things I intend it to do. I so appreciate the help I'm receiving from this group as it has opened a floodgate for me and makes me even more excited to make this all work! Thanks again Ken!

Mel

Hi Pete,

I'm making progress however slow it may be. I have attached the most recent Build Report and Switch List for the Mina Turn and Dayton Transfer Job. What I'm striving to have happen is to not allow any car to go straight from an industry to an Interchange track or staging or another industry but rather go to Arnold Yard for processing first. As you can see from the Train Manifest for Mina, I have a car going from the Hanford Warehouse straight to State Recycling in Mina.

Question #1: How would I be able to configure it so any car must go to Arnold Yard first either coming onto the layout or leaving the layout?

Question #2: Why are some cars not under the "TO" column but rather the "Blocking" column? I know this probably is pretty obvious but the old brain sometimes can't see the trees through the Forest.

Question #3: I have several Train Cases and storage bins I keep my Trains in while not being used. How could I use these as an off layout destination using Operations Pro or am I getting too far ahead of myself?

Question #4: And last but by not least, what do I need to do to get the Dayton Transfer Job to take any cars back with it to staging? I got the Dayton Transfer Job to drop off it's cars only on the Arnold Yard A/D Track and shows it returning back to staging, just isn't taking anything back with it.

OK, enough talking, now time for listening and learning.

Thank You again Pete for your assistance

Mel

Hey Mel,

Real quickly, I believe you reposted the manifest for the Mina rather than the Build Report, since they look the same on my screen...

As far as question #2, its a matter of formatting the print out. For now don't worry too much about how it looks, we'll get to that eventually.
And question #3, I would wait on that little trick until you can get these pesky buggers to work in one fashion at a time... ;-)

I'll wait for an updated Mina BR before addressing question #1...

Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>

Hi Pete, I've got the latest Mina Manifest and Build Report attached dated 4/30/23. I've been reading the Build Reports as you suggested and am beginning to understand however slowly how the program looks at every car and location in order to build a Train. As you can see, I'm still getting one car going from the Hanford Team Trk. to the Mina Interchange Trk. without going to Arnold Yard first. (NKP 18878 Boxcar 45' Brown Team Trk 2 Mina, PRE Interchange)

Thank You Pete,

Mel

Mel,

Once again, the .txt files are both for the manifest of the Mina Turn,?one built on 4/30 at 20:32

Manifest for train (Mina Turn) Arnold to Hearne Job Valid 4/30/1967 20:32 Works Arnold to Hearne

And one built on 4/30 at 21:06

Manifest for train (Mina Turn) Arnold to Hearne Job Valid 4/30/1967 21:06 Works Arnold to Hearne

So, still lacking the details from the build report, let's at least get one of the question answered...

Why doesn't the Dayton Transfer take any cars back to staging from Arnold Yard?
Simple Answer:? The track to which the train returns doesn't service Eastbound trains.

Dayton appears to be made up of 4 tracks

1. Bellsman Yard A/D Trk 1
2. Bellsman Yard A/D Trk 2
3. Bellsman YD Trk 3
4. Bellsman YD Trk 4

Since the (B)uild (R)eport for the Dayton T. states that "A/D track has 13 cars" and the "Exclude Cars" section of the BR shows cars in YD 3 & 4 trks, we can fairly conclude that the only track to which the Dayton T. can return is A/D Trk 2.? And since the reason given for each car check rejection is...

Destination (Dayton) does not service Eastbound trains

I suggest you change Dayton to service both directions, which is done by checking both direction boxes upper right area of the "Edit Location" window.

As far as the other problem...

...one car going from the Hanford Team Trk. to the Mina Interchange Trk. without going to Arnold Yard first.

This is because it can!?
If the car in question is of a car-type allowed in both spurs, then try allowing only differing "load state" at each, In other words, allow Hanford TT to allow only Boxcars with "L" and Mina Interchange to allow only Boxcars with "E".? If you want the load state to be useable at both, then you need a schedule to point cars where you wish them to go.

Establish a schedule for Hanford Team Track using the Optional Schedule section of the Edit Spur window.? I suggest you name the schedule something other than the name of the spur (gets confusing later) so try "Freight Forward".
Add a Boxcar to the list and then choose to Receive "L" and Ship "E" and most crucial, choose a Destination of Arnold Yard.? This will point any Boxcar unloading at the Hanford Team Track back to Arnold and no other location will "grab" it!
Of course, this trick can be put in place for all your spurs if you wish all cars to return to Arnold Yard first...

Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>

Hi Pete, I am so sorry for the confusion. I've uploaded what I believe are the correct Build Report and Manifest files for the Mina Turn. I did as you suggested and checked both East and West for the Dayton Transfer and it worked! AWESOME!

As for making a schedule to prevent cars from going directly from one industry to another, for now I think it best to keep things as they are until I get more proficient with the program. I can at least at this point build Trains for all four of my Trains so what I would like to do is print out a switchlist and run some Trains to see how it all works unless you feel I'm not there yet. Excited? Yes, very! But want to follow a sensible line of understanding and not get too far ahead of myself.

Thank You Pete for your patience and understanding

Mel,

You may, of course, employ whichever tools this program makes available (there are many).? If you want to avoid schedules for now, you would still have some options to prevent the industry-to-industry moves.

If you want to figure out which locations should take which type of cars, you could limit those car-types from other locations, e.g. you currently have Pratt not servicing Boxcar or HopGrain but do permit HopSand.
This is a good example of how you have already placed limitations on locations to prevent certain car-type movements.? If you continue to carefully plan these limitations, you should be able to get your cars to move to Arnold Yard as you would like.

So what if you need, say, a Boxcar to be able to travel to either Hanford?or Mina in a loaded state (L), and then return to Arnold Yard in an empty state (E). If you prevent other industries in other locations from "servicing" (allowing) the Boxcars in an (E) state, then the only location that should be found to take them would be Arnold Yard.? So, if you change Mina (PRE Interchange) to allow only Boxcars in (L) state, then the Boxcar (E) from Hanford would not be able to go to that spur.

All this results in much planning on your part to get things just right.? If it doesn't bother you where the cars go from one location to another, then not much more need be changed.? Yet if you do want those cars to travel to Arnold Yard before being allowed elsewhere, you should be prepared to do lots of testing and resetting (use BackUp and Restore) as you get the setup dialed in.

You can always continue to post here with your results/questions and keep digging into those Build Reports to find the answers, as they "know all and see all...!!!"

Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>

Hi Pete, I've been digging, trying to find answers on my own these last couple days. I've been trying to print a switchlist using the Tabular, Two Column method like what is shown in this video at 3:30 as the way I was trying to do it before just wasn't working out. I've gone into the TRAINS/TOOLS/MANIFEST PRINT OPTIONS many times to look and see if maybe I don't have something set up correctly but not able to get the result I'm looking for. I have attached two files for your review, one is the Mina Turn Manifest, generated using the Build/Preview buttons on the TRAINS page. The attached Hanford Switchlist file was generated using the "Switchlist" button at the bottom of the TRAINS page.

My question is how can I generate a switchlist using the Tabular, Two Column method or even the Default method like what's used for the DEMO Files as well as what's shown in the video? I've been going back and forth comparing the DEMO files setup to my own setup but keep coming up empty handed.

Thanks again Pete for all your help. I know I keep saying it but I really do appreciate your assistance with all of this.

Mel

Mel,

I believe you have been using the Text Editor when previewing your Manifests and Switch Lists.? Take a look at the Manifest Print Options window below...



This should allow to view your manifest in the manner as shared in the video.? Note that in the video, on his screen, this box I have highlighted is unchecked.

Try this and then let me know what you find out...

Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>

Hi Pete, That seems to have worked as what I did was change the Format in Manifest Print Options to Tabular and Standard and that seems to work pretty well. I want to continue experimenting with this and just run some Trains using JMRI and see what happens as I'm still having a hard time getting my Head around all of this and have to see it at work I think to gain a better understanding. When I do get to running Trains on the layout using JMRI, must I click the MOVE button after each Town or can I wait and do this upon completion of the run?

Thank You Pete

Mel,

You may use either method, but I would print out your manifest before moving or terminating.? If you have the list printed, you can just click terminate and then physically run the train, doing the work as is spelled out on your manifest.? As soon as you click terminate, be aware that the program will now think the cars on the list ARE where it told them to go.? I am a big fan of doing a BackUp before testing anything so you can always Restore it back to where things were (the Reset Car Move Count does NOT do this for you) when you first started...

Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>

Hi Pete, It sounds like I need to get to running some Trains to see how all of this works. I will get back to you with a progress report when I get this going. One question I do have. When I get back to you with my progress, should I start a new post or just make another post on this thread?

Thank You Pete!