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Layout editor - connecting slips to turnouts
#layouteditor
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Peter,
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The length and angle of turnout, slip, and level crossing legs can be changed by dragging the end points. For you scenario I place the turnout and the slip on the panel and connect the related end points with the required track segment. I then drag the turnout diverging leg and the related slip leg until they look good. I normally draw track plans with 45? angles on everything so I use the grid to position the objects and their end points. Dave Sand On Sep 17, 2019, at 12:58 AM, peter.s.drury via Groups.Io <peter.s.drury@...> wrote: |
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Thank you for your reply Dave. I cannot find a way of selecting and dragging the end points. In the Help files it talks about using a META key but I have tried several keys CTRL ALT Fn but these do not seem to help.
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Best wishes Peter -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Sand Sent: 17 September 2019 07:20 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Layout editor - connecting slips to turnouts Peter, The length and angle of turnout, slip, and level crossing legs can be changed by dragging the end points. For you scenario I place the turnout and the slip on the panel and connect the related end points with the required track segment. I then drag the turnout diverging leg and the related slip leg until they look good. I normally draw track plans with 45? angles on everything so I use the grid to position the objects and their end points. Dave Sand On Sep 17, 2019, at 12:58 AM, peter.s.drury via Groups.Io <peter.s.drury@...> wrote: |
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Peter,
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Select "Options >> Show Help Bar in Edit Mode" from the Layout Editor menu. ?This will show the key and mouse actions based on your operating system. Dave Sand On Sep 17, 2019, at 2:21 AM, peter.s.drury via Groups.Io <peter.s.drury@...> wrote: |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Dave Sorry for the delay in replying. Was away yesterday. I have set up as you suggested and what I am finding is the HELP info below the layout display appears to be greater width than the main display window w/o the ability to adjust it or see the hidden info. Is there a way of modifying the turnout angles to be 45 deg in all cases? Currently the LH RH turnouts have a 22.5 deg angle between normal and diverging routes. Thanks for your help. Best wishes Peter ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Sand
Sent: 17 September 2019 15:37 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Layout editor - connecting slips to turnouts ? Peter, ? Select "Options >> Show Help Bar in Edit Mode" from the Layout Editor menu. ?This will show the key and mouse actions based on your operating system. ? Dave Sand ?
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¿ªÔÆÌåÓýDave,If I may, I would comment that the ability to create a Double Crossover using 4 turnouts and a Diamond Crossing would be a great help as would the ability to have a smooth transition/join between Slips and Turnouts. The sheer number of different designs, by manufacturers around the World that are available to us, matching the actual angles for individual Turnouts, Slips and Crossings is one thing but the creation of set formations may require separate icons that use different angles just to fit more neatly into a track plan.? Dave ?
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¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThanks for your swift reply Dave. Point taken regarding the number of variations on the market. I still have a problem of viewing the HELP info below the layout. I am using a Surface GO laptop in Windows 10. Best wishes Peter ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Roberts
Sent: 18 September 2019 09:25 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Layout editor - connecting slips to turnouts ? Dave, ? If I may, I would comment that the ability to create a Double Crossover using 4 turnouts and a Diamond Crossing would be a great help as would the ability to have a smooth transition/join between Slips and Turnouts. ? The sheer number of different designs, by manufacturers around the World that are available to us, matching the actual angles for individual Turnouts, Slips and Crossings is one thing but the creation of set formations may require separate icons that use different angles just to fit more neatly into a track plan.? ? ? Dave ?
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¿ªÔÆÌåÓýUPDATE I have fixed this. The reason was a large number of spaces was slipped in the start of the messages destroying the formatting stc. I cleared these and now I can read the HELP file properly. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of peter.s.drury via Groups.Io
Sent: 18 September 2019 09:59 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Layout editor - connecting slips to turnouts ? Thanks for your swift reply Dave. Point taken regarding the number of variations on the market. I still have a problem of viewing the HELP info below the layout. I am using a Surface GO laptop in Windows 10. Best wishes Peter ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Roberts ? Dave, ? If I may, I would comment that the ability to create a Double Crossover using 4 turnouts and a Diamond Crossing would be a great help as would the ability to have a smooth transition/join between Slips and Turnouts. ? The sheer number of different designs, by manufacturers around the World that are available to us, matching the actual angles for individual Turnouts, Slips and Crossings is one thing but the creation of set formations may require separate icons that use different angles just to fit more neatly into a track plan.? ? ? Dave ? ?
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Dave, There are NO track ¡°icons" on a layout editor panel. ?Everything is a set of lines drawn between xy coordinates. ?A level crossing has two Ines. ?A regular turnout has at least 5 lines, one of which is not drawn depending on turnout position. ?Cross overs and slips have many more lines. By moving the endpoints of the implied icon, an infinite variety can be created. Dave Sand ? |
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Hi Dave. Many thanks for your help re editing connections. Got the hang of it now and started to create a panel including part of the layout. I have used MERG parts only and entered these as hardware addresses within the tables as a first step. I then used these addresses when creating the panel.
JMRI and the panel are working together but, try as I may, I find that the positioning of the toggle switches I am using do not align with that displayed in the editor. I have tried to correct this by resetting the Servo drives by reversing the ON and OFF events in my servo driver module but this seem to have no impact on the result in the editor. I must be missing something and wonder if you can help. I shall upload my panel to the group slot when I can find out how to do this. Best wishes Peter |
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Peter,
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I am not sure what you are talking about. I assume the toggle switches are on the layout and that they are used to drive the turnouts. I don¡¯t see any toggles on the panel. If so, JMRI will not know about turnout changes since there is no feedback defined to let JMRI know what the current turnout state is. I noticed in the test panel that turnout P1a is also controlling P1b. Since P1b is part of the double slip turnout pair, P2a may also need to be positioned depending on the desired route. Dave Sand On Sep 22, 2019, at 8:11 AM, peter.s.drury via Groups.Io <peter.s.drury@...> wrote: |
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Hi Dave
Sorry for the confusion. I take it that you have seen my panel file. I am using toggle switches on the layout and these are entered in the sensor table: Node 262. Events 1 - 8 I have also entered two feedback entries (more to follow) for P1a to indicate this turnout is at the closed (Servo Off end) or thrown (Servo at ON end). The turnouts are all in the turnout table and controlled by a CANMIO SVO Node 257. With the above setup, The panel Editor showed the operation of the toggle switches acting on the turnouts but, I operate the toggles with the OFF position forward and the ON position with the toggle switch pulled. I adjust this sense by setting up each servo within the CANMIO SVO. The conflict I have is that the toggle switch settings seem to be reversed in JMRI. Hope this helps Best wishes Peter |
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Peter,
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You need to change the mode in the turnout table from DIRECT to TWOSENSOR. ?Also, when Sensor1 is active, that indicates Thrown while sensor2 is used to indicate Closed. ?For slow motion switch machine, a turnout goes from one state, to Inconsistent, to the other state. My policy that is that I never invert anything in JMRI. ?I manipulate the hardware as needed to get the proper input into JMRI. Dave Sand On Sep 22, 2019, at 5:34 PM, peter.s.drury via Groups.Io <peter.s.drury@...> wrote: |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi, While developing my DIY turnout servos I discovered something that should have been obvious... the servo direction, ie.push to close vs. pull to close, depends on which side of the turnout (main vs. diverging) the servo is mounted on. I had to make the connector for the 2 feedback switches allow swapping to avoid any JMRI inverting.? I tried a few software solutions first, but they got kinda' messy.? I second Dave's policy. Steven On 09/22/2019 04:48 PM, Dave Sand
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Peter, |
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Dave
Thanks for your feedback. I fully agree with you that I should ensure the conditions are correctly set up in MERG and to avoid using JMRI to inverting anything. Spent some time last night checking through my application and found that I need to get further information on the MERG sensor inputs to jmri. I found that the P1a sensors conflicted when trying to set the turnout to the OFFl (closed) position. This was due to the MERG CANMIO SVO output events simultaneously providing a high to both Events 1 & 2 resulting in both being active at the same time in the sensor table. Not surprisingly, The Turnout on the panel showed the correct movement and then reverted back to the ON (thrown) position. Both Sensors at this time were 'Active'. More work to do in MERG to resolve this before applying the other sensors inputs from the turnouts. In the mean-time. Can you please remind me of how I was able to set the sensors to provide feedback for the other turnouts? I have a still have a bit more time to continue with this before other things get in the way. I am determined to try to ensure I can do this in a concentrated way and avoid the long delays between sessions. One other thing, I have left the default ' No Pull Ups/Down' in the JMRI sensor settings. Best wishes Peter? |
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Peter
Does your MIO have a ULN2803 chip beside the servo connections or an 8-way resnet? If it's a resnet then that probably explains your output reversal. I believe the default is the ULN2803 and that reverses the PIC output to operate correctly with active to reverse the switch (point blades) and inactive to return the switch to the normal position. The resnet does not do that inversion so active is normal and inactive is reverse. By far and away the best way to sort these things out is to create a small demo board with just a few bits of track and a point or two and get all the switching, block detection, tie bar position detection, servo orientation etc all working before attempting to start on the layout proper. All the bits will be transferrable to the final layout once confidence in the interaction between CBUS and JMRI is gained. It sounds like wasted work but I can assure you it's exactly the opposite. Changes to things are MUCH, MUCH easier done on the demo rather than the final layout. Another question, do you actually have two sensors or micro switches to monitor the tie bar position of all your switches? Fraser |
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Hello Fraser, thanks for your reply.
My bench test setup I have a rather long break from this exercise in combining MERG with JMRI. I decided right from the start NOT to attempt to? incorporate JMRI on the layout proper until I understood what I am doing. I have extended my asic Bench Test facilty of CANGIZMO, CANPAN and Activity Monitor to include new build CANUSB4 and CANCMD.with a piece of Test Track for Programming and test running. These items can be seen on the small board at the top of the photo. I realised that individual modules might create quirks when interfacing with JMRI so I have built and installed the following modules on the larger board in the foreground. 2 * CANACE8C (for the toggle switches), 2 * CANACC8 (for 6 home made test signals) 1 * CANMIO-SVO (for 8 * servos representing turnouts on the main layout) and a CANDISP (for use for mixed Common Cathode signals). Getting back to the issue at hand I can confirm that the CANMIO is fitted with a resnet and not the ULN 2803. I was not aware of the option to fit the ULN 2803 and shall check if this is an easy remedy. I do no longer install microswitches on the servo mounts, although some there are some on my test servos. I have gone for the servo crossing switch module as a more reliable interface than the microswitches. The photo will be uploaded to the JMRI photo folder as soon as I can. Best wishes Peter |
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Peter,
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Now you are getting into the hardware specific actions. My experience is with RR-CirKits TowerMan boards. These are configured so that when the circuit is closed (connected to ground), a sensor active is sent to JMRI. We have the Tortoise switch machines wired with both internal switches connected to the TowerMan. When the turnout starts moving, both inputs are held high which show as Inactive. When this occurs, JMRI sets the turnout state to Inconsistent. When the turnout finishes moving, the appropriate switch is closed and sends an Active. Now JMRI knows the actual state. Note: There is an issue with running in simulation mode. The P1a turnout has P1b as a supporting turnout. This causes a Java stack overflow and JMRI hangs. The requires killing JMRI from the operating system. Dave Sand On Sep 23, 2019, at 3:53 AM, peter.s.drury via Groups.Io <peter.s.drury@...> wrote: |
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Hi Dave. Good evening and thanks for your reply.
Fraser has also replied regarding my Servo Driver (CANMIO - SVO). It would seem that there is a known failure area regarding feedback with the released kits. This was a new design and I am looking at a specific post in the MERG Forum which mentions this but I need to go through the full thread (22 Pages of entries!) to fathom out what my response should be. I do have the original version on my layout and could substitute this on my test bed. I am out all day tomorrow but shall look at this on Wednesday if nothing else comes up. I had toggle switches mounted on my Servo Mounts to tell me when the end of travel occurred but discontinued this due to reliability problems (the switches occasionally moved on the mount over time). Solving the problem above will provide? a robust way of signalling? to JMRI of the turnout state. I have also removed the need to set P1a turnout to also move P1b turnout in JMRI. This is already done in the MERG system and therefore is unnecessary. ?I have enough hardware on the test bed to avoid using Simulation Mode. Best wishes Peter |