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Automatic Dispatching

 

I've tried several different ways to get trains to run automatically, but I keep running into ( maybe I should say "creating my own") roadblocks.? At 83, I'm not sure how many more wrong ways to do it I can afford to try.
?
I've set signal heads all around the layout.? I try to set Blocks, Sections and a Transit to run a train and I get it set to go through several Sections, but then I get to a turnout and it will allow me to set the diverging route out, but the continuing route isn't available.? I can't find what's different between the Block on he diverging leg and the one on the continuing leg of the turnout.
?
So, I read some of the JMRI documentation and decided to try using Signal Masts and letting JMRI set up Sections and Transits on the fly.? I took a portion of the Panel and deleted the signal heads around a turnout to use the Set Signal Masts menu.? It sets the Masts for both routes entering the frog end of the turnout, but there's no option to set a Mast with signals for the points end of the same turnout.
?
Before I waste any more time on rabbit holes, can someone steer me to the easiest way to set up my goals?? Or point me at the page in the JMRI documents where I can read the proper steps to take and the order to build it?
I'd like to:
1.? Be able to send a train autonomously from the modeled layout into a specific staging track.
2.? Be able to have trains scheduled to come out of staging into the modeled area at preprogrammed clock times or upon specified events.
3.? Be able to manually trigger a train in staging? by selecting either the train or the track it's on and select where it needs to go.
?
?
This forum has been so great thanks to the helpful folks here who have been so willing to share their time and experience.
 

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Did you do the following
Create train length blocks / make each block into a section / create a layout panel without any switches / create the blocks physically by isolating the ends of each block and add detection to each block / physically on the actual layout ?include the switches you have at the end of a block / create sml virtual signals at the ends of every block on the layout panel-no real signals are needed / create transits /run trains.

That will enable you to run trains automatically from one point to an end point or continuously in loops including trains chasing each other.

If you want to use switching then create a second layout panel. ?Without changing your wiring physically now create a second layout panel with every switch in its own block.
Create ghost blocks for the switches-need latest test version of jmri software.
Or use logix to tell the virtual blocks you put switches in when to occupy them.

Tony




On Mar 24, 2025, at 10:25?PM, sontrak via groups.io <sontrak@...> wrote:

?
I've tried several different ways to get trains to run automatically, but I keep running into ( maybe I should say "creating my own") roadblocks.? At 83, I'm not sure how many more wrong ways to do it I can afford to try.
?
I've set signal heads all around the layout.? I try to set Blocks, Sections and a Transit to run a train and I get it set to go through several Sections, but then I get to a turnout and it will allow me to set the diverging route out, but the continuing route isn't available.? I can't find what's different between the Block on he diverging leg and the one on the continuing leg of the turnout.
?
So, I read some of the JMRI documentation and decided to try using Signal Masts and letting JMRI set up Sections and Transits on the fly.? I took a portion of the Panel and deleted the signal heads around a turnout to use the Set Signal Masts menu.? It sets the Masts for both routes entering the frog end of the turnout, but there's no option to set a Mast with signals for the points end of the same turnout.
?
Before I waste any more time on rabbit holes, can someone steer me to the easiest way to set up my goals?? Or point me at the page in the JMRI documents where I can read the proper steps to take and the order to build it?
I'd like to:
1.? Be able to send a train autonomously from the modeled layout into a specific staging track.
2.? Be able to have trains scheduled to come out of staging into the modeled area at preprogrammed clock times or upon specified events.
3.? Be able to manually trigger a train in staging? by selecting either the train or the track it's on and select where it needs to go.
?
?
This forum has been so great thanks to the helpful folks here who have been so willing to share their time and experience.
 

If you upload the layout data xml file to the group's ProblemsBeingWorkedOn file folder we can review what you have done so far. ?Which turnout has the issue with the continuing route?

Dave Sand


----- Original message -----
From: "sontrak via groups.io" <sontrak=[email protected]>
Subject: [jmriusers] Automatic Dispatching
Date: Monday, March 24, 2025 9:25 PM

I've tried several different ways to get trains to run automatically, but I keep running into ( maybe I should say "creating my own") roadblocks.? At 83, I'm not sure how many more wrong ways to do it I can afford to try.
?
I've set signal heads all around the layout.? I try to set Blocks, Sections and a Transit to run a train and I get it set to go through several Sections, but then I get to a turnout and it will allow me to set the diverging route out, but the continuing route isn't available.? I can't find what's different between the Block on he diverging leg and the one on the continuing leg of the turnout.
?
So, I read some of the JMRI documentation and decided to try using Signal Masts and letting JMRI set up Sections and Transits on the fly.? I took a portion of the Panel and deleted the signal heads around a turnout to use the Set Signal Masts menu.? It sets the Masts for both routes entering the frog end of the turnout, but there's no option to set a Mast with signals for the points end of the same turnout.
?
Before I waste any more time on rabbit holes, can someone steer me to the easiest way to set up my goals?? Or point me at the page in the JMRI documents where I can read the proper steps to take and the order to build it?
I'd like to:
1.? Be able to send a train autonomously from the modeled layout into a specific staging track.
2.? Be able to have trains scheduled to come out of staging into the modeled area at preprogrammed clock times or upon specified events.
3.? Be able to manually trigger a train in staging? by selecting either the train or the track it's on and select where it needs to go.
?
?
This forum has been so great thanks to the helpful folks here who have been so willing to share their time and experience.
 

Thanks you both for the replies.? I'm very thankful for the effort to solve my questions.? I'll work on them later today if I can.
?
Tony, I have my panel set up with Blocks and Sections, and was working on Transits.? A couple of the Turnouts are in Blocks by themselves, but most of them are part of the Block on the points side of the turnout.? I can't wire them separately at this point.? I've never heard of Ghost Blocks.? I also use only the stable versions of JMRI.? I will look into your suggestions.? I will look this up when I get chance.
?
Dave, I will also get the layout uploaded later today.? I should have thought of uploading it, you and others helped me once before by doing that.? Per your question, I ran into the continuing route problem on the Layout Panel, trying to get the Transit to exit Block Apex Gate via LT501 into Block Ramp 1.? It only offered diverging route Ramp 2.? I also noted that trying to go the reverse direction, a Transit exiting Block Ramp1 and intending to continue into Block Apex Gate.? The Apex Gate Block was not available.? Astoundingly, though, exiting turnout LT501 via Ramp 2, the diverging route, was available.? quite a tight turn!
 

Tony, I forgot to address some of your questions.
?
Most of my blocks are train length.? Some are not; a couple of? turnouts and the yard ladders, for example. Blocks where a train might stop are programmed with their length in inches.
?
Blocks are physically isolated, with BDL168 occupancy detection.
?
I have? not created a simple loop panel with no turnouts.? I was workking on SML? and placing masts when I ran into the software setting up masts on the frog end of a turnout, but not offering a mast on the points end.? This is, however the same turnout I couldn't get a Transit to cross from Block Apex Gate to Ramp 1.
?
I stopped at this ooint, fearing I was chasing down the wrong path to getting my trains to stage properly/
?
I saw a YouTube video of a Brit having his trains stop before a train alredy in staging track and moe forwatd automatically when the train ahead departs.? Trouble is, he showed the rains stopping aand moving, but no display of the JMRI setup.
?
Bill
 

Hi Bill
?
I don’t suppose you are up for trying a totally different approach? But I too was trying a few different aproaches to automate trains via JMRI 10 years ago on my very small layout.
?
I ended up creating signal controlled warrants and a Jython script.
?
You can see the history on my homepage. Use the translate button to the lower left, if your Danish is a bit rusty.
?
?
The past few years, I did not have a layout. But now that I am setting up a new layout (on shelves and with a train elevator in the middle - but that is a different story), I realized that the pages above did not really tell me, how I actually had been setting it all up. Hence I tried to document that here:
?
If you are interested in the latest version of the Jython script including control og the train elevator (not fully tested yet), you can find it here:
?
BR
KJ
 

I"ve been studying the JMRI manual an experimenting, and I've come up with a new question related to auto trains and Signal Masts:
?
Every time I ask to set Signal Masts, the window offers only the Masts on the frog end of the Turnout.? Am I correct if I assume this is because the poitns end of the turnout is part of the Block connected to the points?
?
I had my signals defined by Signal Heads.? For Turnout LT501, for instance, IH 501A controlled the continuing path and IH 50B the diverging path from the points end, and IH501C the continuing path and IH501D the diverging path from the frog end.
?
If the Turnout is not its own discrete Block,how do I set a Signal Mast for trains leaving the Block via this Turnout?
?
Oh, and will I be able to use the Mast to operate auto trains?
 

Another question, my old signal heads changed aspects as I opened and closed the Turnout.? When I set Masts instead of the Heads, they don't seem to respond to turnout postion.? What have I misse here?
 

This is a common problem when moving the signal heads and SSL to signal masts and SML. ?For various reasons, it was common to include the turnout with the track attached to the points end. ?This means that there is no block boundary for signal masts.

For Dispatcher automation purposes, the 5.11.2 (and later) JMRI test release has a "ghost" block feature. ?This makes it possible to create a block for the turnout with an internal sensor. ?This provides the block boundary for a signal mast at the points end. ?See??for information on ghost blocks.

After creating the ghost block, the signal mast logic (SML) for the affected signal mast will need to be updated.

Dave Sand


----- Original message -----
From: "sontrak via groups.io" <sontrak=[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Automatic Dispatching
Date: Sunday, March 30, 2025 3:05 PM

I"ve been studying the JMRI manual an experimenting, and I've come up with a new question related to auto trains and Signal Masts:
?
Every time I ask to set Signal Masts, the window offers only the Masts on the frog end of the Turnout.? Am I correct if I assume this is because the poitns end of the turnout is part of the Block connected to the points?
?
I had my signals defined by Signal Heads.? For Turnout LT501, for instance, IH 501A controlled the continuing path and IH 50B the diverging path from the points end, and IH501C the continuing path and IH501D the diverging path from the frog end.
?
If the Turnout is not its own discrete Block,how do I set a Signal Mast for trains leaving the Block via this Turnout?
?
Oh, and will I be able to use the Mast to operate auto trains?
 

On Sat, Mar 29, 2025 at 05:51 PM, Karl Johan Lisby wrote:
I don’t suppose you are up for trying a totally different approach? But I too was trying a few different aproaches to automate trains via JMRI 10 years ago on my very small layout.
?
I ended up creating signal controlled warrants and a Jython script.
I'm developing my automation based on JMRI Warrants and Signals with SML. Warrants write a script for each autotrain which can be easily modified on the screen.
I can hold an autotrain with a signal at danger until I want it to depart.
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.10 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Java: OpenLogic jre-17.0.12.7 ? Windows 10
 

i have updated to the latest version of JMRI and see the ghost blocks.
?
I set Masts for a Turnout that is now a ghost block by itself.? Now my problem is that I get only three signal heads.? One for each block entering the frog end, and one for the throat or points end.? How now do I get it to set a signal for each route possibility when coming into the points?
 

Signal masts require that you select a signal system. ?When you create a mast, you select the mast type such as single head or double head.

To see the available signal systems, go to?

The links will take you to the details for each signal system including the aspects and the signal mast types.

Dave Sand


----- Original message -----

From: "sontrak via groups.io" <sontrak=[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Automatic Dispatching
Date: Tuesday, April 01, 2025 1:47 PM

i have updated to the latest version of JMRI and see the ghost blocks.
?
I set Masts for a Turnout that is now a ghost block by itself.? Now my problem is that I get only three signal heads.? One for each block entering the frog end, and one for the throat or points end.? How now do I get it to set a signal for each route possibility when coming into the points?

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