Hello All,

I bench tested everything, everything being the command station, PM42, BDL168 and DS64s at home and got them setup properly in JMRI.?

I took it all to club and have started setting things up and now am not getting any feedback. I can throw turnouts from JMRI and from the manual push buttons and from throttles but no feedback is indicated when their thrown manual push button/from throttle.

I also am not getting any feedback from block detection. I’ve checked sensors and blocks and all look correct. I can run trains from JMRI throttle so I know it’s “talking”. NO block is being detected which makes me think it’s more of a global setting.?

I’m sure that’s a pretty minimal start for troubleshooting but where do I start and what information do you need??

Thanks,
Wayne

Check your LocoNet connections. What you describe is consistent with the connection between JMRI and the command being OK, but something preventing LocoNet connections beyond the command station to the PM42, BDL168, etc boards.

Bob

On Aug 14, 2019, at 6:03 PM, Wayne Swearingen <wayne.swearingen@...> wrote:

Hello All,

I bench tested everything, everything being the command station, PM42, BDL168 and DS64s at home and got them setup properly in JMRI.

I took it all to club and have started setting things up and now am not getting any feedback. I can throw turnouts from JMRI and from the manual push buttons and from throttles but no feedback is indicated when their thrown manual push button/from throttle.

I also am not getting any feedback from block detection. I’ve checked sensors and blocks and all look correct. I can run trains from JMRI throttle so I know it’s “talking”. NO block is being detected which makes me think it’s more of a global setting.

I’m sure that’s a pretty minimal start for troubleshooting but where do I start and what information do you need?

Thanks,
Wayne

--
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...

It's unclear if you're using the same computer and panel(s) from home and at the club., and how JMRI is configured, nor what you're looking at, so unsure where your issue is, so I'm goign to go over some high level things

Same computer, same components, different loconet cable. The cables I used in bench testing at home were homemade CAT5 wired between the PM/BDL then used the short little pigtails that came with the command station and booster to connect each of those together plus connection to the PM. Last night I replaced ALL of the loconet cat5 I was fighting with at the club with the recommended flat phone wire and wired per Digitrax instructions and tested each connection with the LT1.?

As far as JMRI configuration 4.16.xx is what I am running. The bulk of the work building the panel and configuring was done on 4.14 however everything still worked while on the bench at home after I upgraded versions. JMRI has the system connection preferences set to Digitrax/DCS240 and DCS240 (Advanced Command Station).?

?

the DS64 doesn't have feedback capabilities (without doing a bunch of weird wiring and jrmi route trickery), so I'm assuming at home you had feedback state of type 'monitoring'. Make sure you have that set for all the turnouts on the club computer..

Yea feedback wasn't quite the right terminology, though same principal. Feedback state is set to monitoring. I played around a bit and tried?one sensor and?two sensor and entered LT807 and LT808, for the turnout I was working on at the moment, which didn't make any difference.?

?

For those wondering, with loconet, this makes it listen for messages from the command station, telling a turnout to throw or close, and assumes it succeeds, and updates the 'known state'.??

?

Is the DS64 hooked up to loconet? (The alternative is it's getting power and signals from track power)

DS64 has its own power supply, as do the BDL and PM boards.?

?

BDL168: Does the LT5 indicate that it's seeing track occupancy? For all the sections? Is It hooked up to loconet?

Dang it.. I should have thought of that. I did not think to test with that last night. I will do that and report back.?

?

?

Assuming everything is hooked up to loconet, and has non-track power wiring (if something has both track power wiring and loconet, I'd suggest trying a wallwart, and see if things change. also, long-term, you'll like it better with non-track power) open up loconet monitor in JMRI. plug in a digitrax throttle, aquire an engine(engine doesn't actually need to be on the tracks for this), and spin the throttle wheel. you should see a lot of noise. If you don't, something very strange is goign on, in that JMRI can talk to command station, but can't hear it.

Throttles show up in the monitor and show speed steps up and down while driving an engine.
I can open a throttle window from JMRI, acquire and run engines.?

?

clear the history of the loconet monitor (to make your life easier in spotting things) and press one of the DS64's buttons to throw a switch. verify switch actually throws, and then chec loconet monitor.? you should see messages about requesting switch LT#### requested thrown/, and possible a start and stop message

I don't recall at the moment. I know I saw that message, I don't know if it was in relation to MY pressing the button in JMRI or on the layout.?

?

clear history again, and put an engine one one of the detected tracks. confirm that the LT5 lit up appropriatly, then look for lines about LSXXXX? (loconet sensor) going high/low

I'm 99% sure I saw LSxx go low but I only saw it once and it didn't happen when traversing between two different detection blocks.?

?

?

side note: the digitrax group strongly recommends leaving nothing on board ID 1, so when something looses it's memory, there's only 1 thing at ID 1, and it's easier to figure out what happens.

I'm aware of that rule :) My PMs are set to 5, 10, 20, 30 and the three BDLs the same at 10, 20, 30.?

?

?

If the above didn't point to wher the issues are, and it appears to be a JMRI problem,? list what version of JMRI you're using, what the command station is, and how you're connecting to it ( PR3, PR4, Locobuffer,? USB cable directly into DCS240 etc)

?

You may also want to open up the JMRI system log, and see if there's any error messages there.?

I mentioned above for connections and versions. USB connection from PC to DCS240. System log did mention missing blocks, however the ones listed were correct in that that section/BDL board is not connected to the layout yet.?

Bob,?

I did have a fight with the CAT5 cable and Rj12 connectors I was using. Last night I scrapped all of that and re-installed all new using the flat grey satin RJ12 wire everyone recommends. Double checked every connection with the LT1, re-read the directions multiple times had other members read the directions and test cables as well.?

I'll gladly re-check all the connections and make sure their all good.?

Wayne

Being able to use throttles means that JMRI is talking to the command station.

Perhaps it’s not the problem, but you can confirm Loconet by triggering some messages from the remote boards: A short to get a PM4 to report, adding an engine to a block to get a BDL16 to report, etc. Those should show up in the JMRI Loconet monitor window. If they’re there, the LocoNet wiring is OK. If not….

Bob

On Aug 15, 2019, at 8:01 AM, Wayne Swearingen <wayne.swearingen@...> wrote:

Throttles show up in the monitor and show speed steps up and down while driving an engine.
I can open a throttle window from JMRI, acquire and run engines.

--
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...

Wayne,

Another way to confirm a working LocoNet is to click on 'Monitor LocoNet Stats...' The interface should respond with some meaningful data. If if doesn't, and instead just shows 'Raw Data' and some empty boxes, then there is some issue, connections, settings, etc. It is not a helpful debugging tool other than to confirm that life is good. <g> It is useless at figuring out why it does not work, other than to keep you looking.

Dick :)

Bob said:

Perhaps it’s not the problem, but you can confirm Loconet by triggering some messages from the remote boards: A short to get a PM4 to report, adding an engine to a block to get a BDL16 to report, etc. Those should show up in the JMRI Loconet monitor window. If they’re there, the LocoNet wiring is OK.

Nope, shorts do not show up and neither does adding an engine to a detected track. No messages trigger in the loconet monitor.?


Dick said:

Another way to confirm a working LocoNet is to click on 'Monitor LocoNet Stats...' The interface should respond with some meaningful data. If if doesn't, and instead just shows 'Raw Data' and some empty boxes, then there is some issue, connections, settings, etc. It is not a helpful debugging tool other than to confirm that life is good. <g> It is useless at figuring out why it does not work, other than to keep you looking

I looked in there, it was mostly empty boxes :(?

So it's safe to assume there is a wire crossed somewhere?? I printed this page from Digitrax and made my cables exactly as they describe:


Wayne

I may have found a possible problem.. correct me if I'm wrong.?

This PDF: ?page 9 has the following diagram:

?

Condition	LEDs Lighted	Comment
OK	3	The outside Rail-sync LEDs should always light, and either one of the two inside LEDs should light
OK, Properly Phased	3	LEDs 1, 2 and 4 should light.
OK, Reverse Phased	3	LEDs 1, 3 and 4 should light.
Both LocoNet + and – shorted (Note)	4	All 4 LEDs should light.
Any Other LocoNet Device Connected	4	All 4 LEDs should light.

I know for sure I had a couple cables test with four LED's and no throttle connected. In my tired mind I think I figured three is good four is better and didn't give it much extra though since Digitrax didn't say anything in their write up about four lights and no throttle.?
So that being said, if Digitrax didn't mention anything about four lights no throttle is the above information accurate? And, why can I run things just fine but the feedback is messed up? My thinking would say that nothing should work with shorted LocoNet.?


Wayne

?

Long story: a LocoNet cable can be thought of as three pairs:

*) Two ground wires - lots of hardware connect those together, they’re basically the same

*) Two Rail-sync wires - these carry _opposite_ signals representing the DCC track signal. In some cases, things will work if these carry DC power (+ on one, - on the other). The DCC signal is used by block detectors to understand what they see; DC power (or the DCC signal) is used by e.g. throttles to provide their power

*) And two LocoNet signals sometimes called L+ and L-. These are the _same_ signal, not opposites. Some command stations drive just one; some drive both. (Most) LocoNet devices look at just one. To make sure that both are available, some devices (typically throttles) short them together.

Yes, there are a lot of cases there.

Digitrax recommends a way of wiring the cables that keeps all this straight. “Phone style” cables switch left-and-right in the cable from end to end, so swap each of those pairs (Rail-synch + to -, L+ to L-) That can cause problems if

*) You have BDL168’s configured in various ways. There’s an op switch there that tells it to swap them back.

*) Or if nothing on the layout is shorting L+ and L- together, as then some boards will be looking at the LocoNet line that’s the wrong one (the one not driven by the command station)

If you’re seeing all 4 LEDs lit, then that last one isn’t the case; that indicates that both LocoNet wires have a signal. So that’s not it.

But the first can still be true. You might not be seeing reports from BDL168s due to this. But your PM4s should still be reporting.

Bob

I know for sure I had a couple cables test with four LED's and no throttle connected. In my tired mind I think I figured three is good four is better and didn't give it much extra though since Digitrax didn't say anything in their write up about four lights and no throttle.
So that being said, if Digitrax didn't mention anything about four lights no throttle is the above information accurate? And, why can I run things just fine but the feedback is messed up? My thinking would say that nothing should work with shorted LocoNet.

--
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 08:15 AM, Dave Suess wrote:

Wayne,

?

We had a similar problem on our large layout at K-10's Model Trains. We found that the PM42's would not communicate with JMRI until we removed some old DCS100's that were being used as boosters. Op switch 2 was set to configure as boosters, but for some reason the communication was not working. We replaced these with DB200's and the problem cleared up. I can't explain it, but if you have boosters check to see if any are converted from old DCS 100's or like.

?

Dave

We have all new gear purchased this spring; DCS240 Command Station and three DB210 boosters. The command station is set to be a booster as well.?

Wayne

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 08:29 AM, Dave Suess wrote:

Wayne, what is meant by DCS configured as a booster as well. The DCS240 powers a block on our layout as well, but op switch 2 should not be configured as a booster. Not sure if that's what you meant.

Dave

Configured was probably the wrong term but for clarity: The DCS240 is used in our application as a command station and booster. Op Switch 2 is set to Command Station.?
Wayne

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I know of no Digitrax unit that at the same time is both a command and booster.

??? Humm, how about a DCS100, a DB150, and the newer ones.?? I think we are having a problem with words here!? A booster is simply a power output device.? For example the DCS100 is a CS (a computer if you will) coupled with a power output (4.5-5 amps).

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 03:21 PM, David Klemm wrote:

Wayne,

It is an either or. The unit is a command station or a booster. I know of no
Digitrax unit that at the same time is both a command and booster. So even
your clarification below is still worded wrong.

You said “The DCS240 is used in our application as a command station and
booster.“. Nope it can’t be this at one time.

David Klemm
Sent from my iPhone Xs Max

David,
From the Digitrax website:
Combination Advanced LocoNet? Command Station and 8 amp CTC booster

--
Peter Ulvestad

JMRI Users Group Moderator - ( )
Tam Valley Group Moderator - ( )
Sprog-DCC Group Moderator - ( )
Edmonton Model Railroad Association -

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 02:29 PM, Peter Ulvestad wrote:

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 03:21 PM, David Klemm wrote:

Wayne,

It is an either or. The unit is a command station or a booster. I know of no
Digitrax unit that at the same time is both a command and booster. So even
your clarification below is still worded wrong.

You said “The DCS240 is used in our application as a command station and
booster.“. Nope it can’t be this at one time.

David Klemm
Xs Max

David,
From the Digitrax website:
Combination Advanced LocoNet? Command Station and 8 amp CTC booster

--
Peter Ulvestad

Thanks Peter, I was scratching my head trying to figure out how it was working as both a command station and booster if that was the case.?


Wayne

Wayne,

All Digitrax DCS's (and the DB150) can be a CS and booster or as just a booster only..

--
Peter Ulvestad

JMRI Users Group Moderator - ( )
Tam Valley Group Moderator - ( )
Sprog-DCC Group Moderator - ( )
Edmonton Model Railroad Association -