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Locked 2 way working on single track - signals

 

My end-to-end layout includes a mainline single track designated for two way working.

It is described in a JMRI Layout Panel that includes Blocks that have occupancy sensor feedback.? Signalling uses Signal Masts to a definition that I have created for Australian Victorian methods and I have also defined Sections (using auto generate) for each signal pair and set up Transits to route from West to East.?

I would expect the signals in the opposite direction to remain RED, however, as a train traverses and vacates the Block that the opposite Signal protects, the signal changes from Red to Caution.

The Sections documentation of JMRI indicates that the internal direction Sensors "may be used in signal logic to force signals for travel in the direction opposite to the allocated direction to RED", but I cannot find anywhere how to achieve this.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in anticipation.

Peter
 

Hi Peter
In tools->Sections>Tools->"Set Direction Sensors In Logic"
If that fails:
tools->tables->Signals->SignalMastLogic", find the signal ->edit->sensor tab,
and select the sensors you want "Apply"
Or via the LayoutPanel: Alternate Click on the mast to bring up the
menu->"signal mast logic : {mastname}"-> find the destination mast in the
list->edit -> select the sensors tab, add the sensors you want and "Apply"
Steve G

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Peter Riggall via Groups.Io" <petermmrs@...>
Date: July 26, 2018 at 7:54 AM


My end-to-end layout includes a mainline single track designated for two way
working.

It is described in a JMRI Layout Panel that includes Blocks that have
occupancy sensor feedback.? Signalling uses Signal Masts to a definition that
I have created for Australian Victorian methods and I have also defined
Sections (using auto generate) for each signal pair and set up Transits to
route from West to East.?

I would expect the signals in the opposite direction to remain RED, however,
as a train traverses and vacates the Block that the opposite Signal protects,
the signal changes from Red to Caution.

The Sections documentation of JMRI indicates that the internal direction
Sensors "may be used in signal logic to force signals for travel in the
direction opposite to the allocated direction to RED", but I cannot find
anywhere how to achieve this.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in anticipation.

Peter
 

Peter:

In US practice the would be either a track direction switch to manually set direction or picking off the first entry point to initiate what's called tumble down... All the signals in the opposing direction go to stop.

Does this sound what you want?

Jim Albanowski
 

Hi Steve

Success! - but with caveats.

Firstly using Section->Tools->Set Direction Sensors in Logic:

The process completed but with numerous errors reported, all along the lines of -"WARN -? Section - IY:AUTO:0028(S4-05:S6-06), 14 anchor point signal heads missing, 38 turnouts missing signals [AWT-EventQueue-0]"

I ignored these messages and the signals did not operate correctly so I proceeded to your second suggestion after using Section->Tools->Remove Direction Sensors from Logic which reported success without any errors.

I selected the West to East pairs of signals along the Mainline in turn and included the Direction Sensors for that signal pair section with? the Forward sensor? set Inactive and the Reverse sensor set Active.? This did not work either.

Finally, after some head scratching I realised that I should be setting the sensors into the opposing signal's Mast Logic.?

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? S2? ¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­. S4...¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­S6...¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­.. S8
West-----------------------------------M a I n l I n e ---------------------------------------------East
? ? ? ? ?? S1? ¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­... S3...¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­. S5...¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­... S7

I selected signal pair S7:S5 and included the Direction Sensors for S6:S8 and S4:S6 (since S7 is in the S6:S8 Section and S5 is in the S4:S6 section) with Forward Inactive and Reverse Active.? I then repeated this for S5:S3 and S3:S1 including the Direction sensors for S4:S6, S2:S4 and S2:S4 respectively (I hope this makes sense).

This worked for an West to East Train and the West East Signals followed the correct sequence once the next section became vacant, whilst the East West signals remained RED through the whole transit.

I then repeated the exercise for an East West train which again worked successfully.

The caveat: Having set the sensors for the East to West movement, the signals in either direction of travel did not reset once the train had exited the section i.e. Caution when the next signal is RED or? Green when the next signal is Caution,

I would welcome your comments on whether I have configured the logic correctly.

Big thanks for your help.

Regards

Peter
 

Hi Jim

Yes I think it is, have you configured JMRI to do this?

Peter
 

Hi

The directional sensors work by being always "Active" and only "Inactive" when
the section is allocated to a train. If the train is going Fwd as defined by the
FWD/REV defined in the section the the Fwd Sensor is set inactive. Ergo the SML
Sensor test is for "Inactive". The sensors are set active when the dispatcher is
first opened.

Now because Auto Sections are generated mast to mast there is, nearly, always 2
sections defined for simple mast block boundary to simple mast block boundary.
If you manually created the sections that is less likely to happen as most
people find it too much like hard work.

So in your example the signal protecting entry to S5:S3 , the auto section would
have generated a Westbound = fwd section, the S5 Westbound mast would test for
S7-S5:Forward and S5-S3:Forward for being "Inactive". Note the testing of both
sensors the one before and one after the mast. I expect the S4:S6 section was
generated Eastbound = fwd and for east mast at S4 the sensors S2-S4:Forward and
S4:S6: forward should be tested to be "Inactive" . Because of the differing
section names for east and west bound the Auto-Allocate conflict algorithms do
not work correctly.

If you had created these sections manually you would have, likely, 3 section
S1:S3, S3:S5 and S3:S7 set FWD, say, Eastbound and reused these sections for
both east and Westbound trains. In which case All Eastbound Signals would test
the Fwd sensors for the section each side of the mast and Westbound the reverse
sensors. In this case the Auto-Allocate conflict algorithms will work correctly.

Steve G.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Peter Riggall via Groups.Io" <petermmrs@...>
Date: July 27, 2018 at 3:26 AM


Hi Steve

Success! - but with caveats.

Firstly using Section->Tools->Set Direction Sensors in Logic:

The process completed but with numerous errors reported, all along the lines
of -"WARN -? Section - IY:AUTO:0028(S4-05:S6-06), 14 anchor point signal heads
missing, 38 turnouts missing signals [AWT-EventQueue-0]"

I ignored these messages and the signals did not operate correctly so I
proceeded to your second suggestion after using Section->Tools->Remove
Direction Sensors from Logic which reported success without any errors.

I selected the West to East pairs of signals along the Mainline in turn and
included the Direction Sensors for that signal pair section with? the Forward
sensor? set Inactive and the Reverse sensor set Active.? This did not work
either.

Finally, after some head scratching I realised that I should be setting the
sensors into the opposing signal's Mast Logic.?

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? S2? ¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­. S4...¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­S6...¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­.. S8
West-----------------------------------M a I n l I n e
---------------------------------------------East
? ? ? ? ?? S1? ¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­... S3...¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­. S5...¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­... S7

I selected signal pair S7:S5 and included the Direction Sensors for S6:S8 and
S4:S6 (since S7 is in the S6:S8 Section and S5 is in the S4:S6 section) with
Forward Inactive and Reverse Active.? I then repeated this for S5:S3 and S3:S1
including the Direction sensors for S4:S6, S2:S4 and S2:S4 respectively (I
hope this makes sense).

This worked for an West to East Train and the West East Signals followed the
correct sequence once the next section became vacant, whilst the East West
signals remained RED through the whole transit.

I then repeated the exercise for an East West train which again worked
successfully.

The caveat: Having set the sensors for the East to West movement, the signals
in either direction of travel did not reset once the train had exited the
section i.e. Caution when the next signal is RED or? Green when the next
signal is Caution,

I would welcome your comments on whether I have configured the logic
correctly.

Big thanks for your help.

Regards

Peter
 

Thanks Steve, that's much clearer about how it works.

I deleted all the auto generated Sections and manually created them as you suggest and yes the routine works as expected but still without resetting the signals on the direction of travel side.? This means that for a following train, the "signalman" has to set them after the first train has passed through.? Is this by design?? I can understand if it is although it would be good to have the signals reset so that a following train (or the same train on a loop) can continue until a Reverse despatch is initiated.

Peter?
 

Peter,
That's definitely ....... bonkers, and not by design bonkers.(:() The signals
should reset themselves
I find it easier to work out whats going on when I add fwd/rev/occupied sensor
icons next to the track so I can see them change as things happen, and adjust
the SM Logic to conform.
Steve G.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Peter Riggall via Groups.Io" <petermmrs@...>
Date: July 30, 2018 at 6:55 AM


Thanks Steve, that's much clearer about how it works.

I deleted all the auto generated Sections and manually created them as you
suggest and yes the routine works as expected but still without resetting the
signals on the direction of travel side.? This means that for a following
train, the "signalman" has to set them after the first train has passed
through.? Is this by design?? I can understand if it is although it would be
good to have the signals reset so that a following train (or the same train on
a loop) can continue until a Reverse despatch is initiated.

Peter
 

Your tip to place direction sensors on the layout worked a treat and after some forensic debugging have now solved the signalling issues.? Thanks very much for your help.

Peter

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