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Locked Struggles with warrants - cont'd #warrants

 

Group;
?
I am making progress but i am a little bit confused, as I don't think the the warrants are acting like they should.? Allow me to explain:
?
Some background:
?
My layout runs from Buffalo to Chicago, with seven (7) passing sidings.? All are signalled, and the O-Block checker says all is well, as the portals and paths are correct, and all portals have signal? masts assigned and correctly functioning.? All blocks and paths have lengths included, accurate to the nearest inch.? Loco's speed matched and limited to 50 MPH top speed.
?
What I am trying to accomplish is to get a "cleaning train" from a siding, make a couple of loops on the layout min lines, and again a couple of loops including the passing sidings, then park abck into the siding it came from.? Somethin like this:
?
Warrant 1 - I call this Cleaning train lap 1: Runs from its Storage siding in Buffalo to the Chicago Yard main, on the main only, no sidings are traversed.
Warrant 2 - Cleaning train Lap 2:? Runs from Chicago to Buffalo on the main, no sidings traversed, ends up on the Buffalo Yard Main line.
Warrant 3 - Cleaning train Lap 3:? Runs from Buffalo to Chicago, and travels through all of the passing sidings, ending up on the Chicago Yard Main Line.
Warrant 4 - Cleaning train Lap 4:? Runs from Chicago to Buffalo, again traversing the passing sidings, end in on the main in Buffalo Yard.
Warrant 5 - Cleaning train lap 5:? Runs from Buffalo main line to the storage siding for the cleaning train (this one is not completed yet)
?
?
Case #1 -?If i run a train via Warrants 1 or 2,? regardless of the direction (B to C, or C to B) without taking any passing sidings, the warrant works like i think it should, meaning the train respects the speed limits and restrictions quite nicely.? However, with Warrants 3 or 4, with a speed restriction on the sidings, the train will slow down to the required speed in the preceding block, which is a main line and should be traversed at "normal" speed.? Essentially what is happening is that the train is traveling the entire length of the layout at "medium" speed, or about 25 MPH.? I think the train should traverse the track between passing sidings at 'Normal" speed and only reduce the speed to traverse the turnouts leading into and out of the passing siding.? Some of my passing sidings are long (the shortest is 10') so I think the train speed should ramp up to normal on these sidings.? ?Is it fixable? If so, how do I fix this???
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? S1
Case #2.? When a train is enters a block, and the other end of the block has a turnout thrown against it, the train will slow to a stop at the entry end, about 25% of the way into the block, rather than travel the length of the block and stop short of the? signal.? Is it fixable? If so, how do I fix this???
?
I hope I have explained this clearly, and sorry for the long post, but this is really got me stumped!? Hopefully someone else has run into this and can offer some advice!
 

Keith,

On your track plan, the signal aspect for entering the siding has a medium speed. ?That means the train has to reduce the speed to medium "before" reaching the signal mast. ?When you are going from siding to siding, the speed will stay at medium. ?If there are intermediate signals showing clear, then the train should speed up until it passes the intermediate signal.


Dave Sand



----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd
Date: Wednesday, September 25, 2024 5:10 PM

Group;
?
I am making progress but i am a little bit confused, as I don't think the the warrants are acting like they should.? Allow me to explain:
?
Some background:
?
My layout runs from Buffalo to Chicago, with seven (7) passing sidings.? All are signalled, and the O-Block checker says all is well, as the portals and paths are correct, and all portals have signal? masts assigned and correctly functioning.? All blocks and paths have lengths included, accurate to the nearest inch.? Loco's speed matched and limited to 50 MPH top speed.
?
What I am trying to accomplish is to get a "cleaning train" from a siding, make a couple of loops on the layout min lines, and again a couple of loops including the passing sidings, then park abck into the siding it came from.? Somethin like this:
?
Warrant 1 - I call this Cleaning train lap 1: Runs from its Storage siding in Buffalo to the Chicago Yard main, on the main only, no sidings are traversed.
Warrant 2 - Cleaning train Lap 2:? Runs from Chicago to Buffalo on the main, no sidings traversed, ends up on the Buffalo Yard Main line.
Warrant 3 - Cleaning train Lap 3:? Runs from Buffalo to Chicago, and travels through all of the passing sidings, ending up on the Chicago Yard Main Line.
Warrant 4 - Cleaning train Lap 4:? Runs from Chicago to Buffalo, again traversing the passing sidings, end in on the main in Buffalo Yard.
Warrant 5 - Cleaning train lap 5:? Runs from Buffalo main line to the storage siding for the cleaning train (this one is not completed yet)
?
?
Case #1 -?If i run a train via Warrants 1 or 2,? regardless of the direction (B to C, or C to B) without taking any passing sidings, the warrant works like i think it should, meaning the train respects the speed limits and restrictions quite nicely.? However, with Warrants 3 or 4, with a speed restriction on the sidings, the train will slow down to the required speed in the preceding block, which is a main line and should be traversed at "normal" speed.? Essentially what is happening is that the train is traveling the entire length of the layout at "medium" speed, or about 25 MPH.? I think the train should traverse the track between passing sidings at 'Normal" speed and only reduce the speed to traverse the turnouts leading into and out of the passing siding.? Some of my passing sidings are long (the shortest is 10') so I think the train speed should ramp up to normal on these sidings.? ?Is it fixable? If so, how do I fix this???
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? S1
Case #2.? When a train is enters a block, and the other end of the block has a turnout thrown against it, the train will slow to a stop at the entry end, about 25% of the way into the block, rather than travel the length of the block and stop short of the? signal.? Is it fixable? If so, how do I fix this???
?
I hope I have explained this clearly, and sorry for the long post, but this is really got me stumped!? Hopefully someone else has run into this and can offer some advice!
 

Dave,
So I can install Virtual signals at critical points?? They dont?need to be "on the layout"?

Do you have any ideas with respect to the stopping distance being too far from the signal?

On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 6:49?PM Dave Sand via <ds=[email protected]> wrote:
Keith,

On your track plan, the signal aspect for entering the siding has a medium speed.? That means the train has to reduce the speed to medium "before" reaching the signal mast.? When you are going from siding to siding, the speed will stay at medium.? If there are intermediate signals showing clear, then the train should speed up until it passes the intermediate signal.


Dave Sand



----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd
Date: Wednesday, September 25, 2024 5:10 PM

Group;
?
I am making progress but i am a little bit confused, as I don't think the the warrants are acting like they should.? Allow me to explain:
?
Some background:
?
My layout runs from Buffalo to Chicago, with seven (7) passing sidings.? All are signalled, and the O-Block checker says all is well, as the portals and paths are correct, and all portals have signal? masts assigned and correctly functioning.? All blocks and paths have lengths included, accurate to the nearest inch.? Loco's speed matched and limited to 50 MPH top speed.
?
What I am trying to accomplish is to get a "cleaning train" from a siding, make a couple of loops on the layout min lines, and again a couple of loops including the passing sidings, then park abck into the siding it came from.? Somethin like this:
?
Warrant 1 - I call this Cleaning train lap 1: Runs from its Storage siding in Buffalo to the Chicago Yard main, on the main only, no sidings are traversed.
Warrant 2 - Cleaning train Lap 2:? Runs from Chicago to Buffalo on the main, no sidings traversed, ends up on the Buffalo Yard Main line.
Warrant 3 - Cleaning train Lap 3:? Runs from Buffalo to Chicago, and travels through all of the passing sidings, ending up on the Chicago Yard Main Line.
Warrant 4 - Cleaning train Lap 4:? Runs from Chicago to Buffalo, again traversing the passing sidings, end in on the main in Buffalo Yard.
Warrant 5 - Cleaning train lap 5:? Runs from Buffalo main line to the storage siding for the cleaning train (this one is not completed yet)
?
?
Case #1 -?If i run a train via Warrants 1 or 2,? regardless of the direction (B to C, or C to B) without taking any passing sidings, the warrant works like i think it should, meaning the train respects the speed limits and restrictions quite nicely.? However, with Warrants 3 or 4, with a speed restriction on the sidings, the train will slow down to the required speed in the preceding block, which is a main line and should be traversed at "normal" speed.? Essentially what is happening is that the train is traveling the entire length of the layout at "medium" speed, or about 25 MPH.? I think the train should traverse the track between passing sidings at 'Normal" speed and only reduce the speed to traverse the turnouts leading into and out of the passing siding.? Some of my passing sidings are long (the shortest is 10') so I think the train speed should ramp up to normal on these sidings.? ?Is it fixable? If so, how do I fix this???
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? S1
Case #2.? When a train is enters a block, and the other end of the block has a turnout thrown against it, the train will slow to a stop at the entry end, about 25% of the way into the block, rather than travel the length of the block and stop short of the? signal.? Is it fixable? If so, how do I fix this???
?
I hope I have explained this clearly, and sorry for the long post, but this is really got me stumped!? Hopefully someone else has run into this and can offer some advice!
 

Keith,

The only intermediate signals I see on your layout are EB10/WB11. ?Intermediate signals are automatic signals between control points.

I don't know what you mean by virtual signals. ?In any case, they behave like real signals. ?They are placed at portals, aka block boundaries. ?They have signal mast logic and are destinations for signal mast logic.

I don't know anything about warrant stopping logic.

Dave Sand


----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd
Date: Wednesday, September 25, 2024 6:30 PM

Dave,
So I can install Virtual signals at critical points?? They dont?need to be "on the layout"?

Do you have any ideas with respect to the stopping distance being too far from the signal?

On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 6:49?PM Dave Sand via <ds=[email protected]> wrote:

Keith,

On your track plan, the signal aspect for entering the siding has a medium speed.? That means the train has to reduce the speed to medium "before" reaching the signal mast.? When you are going from siding to siding, the speed will stay at medium.? If there are intermediate signals showing clear, then the train should speed up until it passes the intermediate signal.


Dave Sand



----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd
Date: Wednesday, September 25, 2024 5:10 PM

Group;
?
I am making progress but i am a little bit confused, as I don't think the the warrants are acting like they should.? Allow me to explain:
?
Some background:
?
My layout runs from Buffalo to Chicago, with seven (7) passing sidings.? All are signalled, and the O-Block checker says all is well, as the portals and paths are correct, and all portals have signal? masts assigned and correctly functioning.? All blocks and paths have lengths included, accurate to the nearest inch.? Loco's speed matched and limited to 50 MPH top speed.
?
What I am trying to accomplish is to get a "cleaning train" from a siding, make a couple of loops on the layout min lines, and again a couple of loops including the passing sidings, then park abck into the siding it came from.? Somethin like this:
?
Warrant 1 - I call this Cleaning train lap 1: Runs from its Storage siding in Buffalo to the Chicago Yard main, on the main only, no sidings are traversed.
Warrant 2 - Cleaning train Lap 2:? Runs from Chicago to Buffalo on the main, no sidings traversed, ends up on the Buffalo Yard Main line.
Warrant 3 - Cleaning train Lap 3:? Runs from Buffalo to Chicago, and travels through all of the passing sidings, ending up on the Chicago Yard Main Line.
Warrant 4 - Cleaning train Lap 4:? Runs from Chicago to Buffalo, again traversing the passing sidings, end in on the main in Buffalo Yard.
Warrant 5 - Cleaning train lap 5:? Runs from Buffalo main line to the storage siding for the cleaning train (this one is not completed yet)
?
?
Case #1 -?If i run a train via Warrants 1 or 2,? regardless of the direction (B to C, or C to B) without taking any passing sidings, the warrant works like i think it should, meaning the train respects the speed limits and restrictions quite nicely.? However, with Warrants 3 or 4, with a speed restriction on the sidings, the train will slow down to the required speed in the preceding block, which is a main line and should be traversed at "normal" speed.? Essentially what is happening is that the train is traveling the entire length of the layout at "medium" speed, or about 25 MPH.? I think the train should traverse the track between passing sidings at 'Normal" speed and only reduce the speed to traverse the turnouts leading into and out of the passing siding.? Some of my passing sidings are long (the shortest is 10') so I think the train speed should ramp up to normal on these sidings.? ?Is it fixable? If so, how do I fix this???
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? S1
Case #2.? When a train is enters a block, and the other end of the block has a turnout thrown against it, the train will slow to a stop at the entry end, about 25% of the way into the block, rather than travel the length of the block and stop short of the? signal.? Is it fixable? If so, how do I fix this???
?
I hope I have explained this clearly, and sorry for the long post, but this is really got me stumped!? Hopefully someone else has run into this and can offer some advice!
 

On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 08:10 AM, Keith Williams wrote:
I don't think the the warrants are acting like they should.?
Welcome to the club. I've had lots of 'fun' getting things to function the way I thought they should in respect of signals and train speed.
The signal system will impact how speed changes (or doesn't). I employ SML and/or LogixNG to control 'real' and 'internal' signals although they are currently all internal as I'm developing my JMRI as I build the layout. On problem I had was trains not ramping up to a higher speed on a proceed signal.
It also seems oblock speeds are not applied as I would expect. It appears the warrant logic will look at the signal, apply the signal speed and disregard any block speed. If you have set a restrictive block speed and the entry signal is at proceed (at normal), the train won't slow to the lower block speed but run at the speed defined for 'normal'.
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10
 

Nags, thanks for the response.? I have had a LOT of issues.? These all started out as a way to automate my cleaning train.? I want to make a lap from Buffalo Yard to Chicago Yard, on the normal straight through path (not going into any sidings.? Then go from Chicago to Buffalo, again on the main line only in Lap 2.? Then in Lap 3. I want to go from Buffalo to Chicago, hitting all of the passing Sidings, and in Lap 4 Chicago to Buffalo again hitting all of the sidings.? ?This led me to the following issues:

1. When a warrant allocates a route, it does not ALWAYS allocate it correctly.? I got around this by making a button?on the panel?that sets a "Route" (In this case all Main Line turnouts are closed) prior to allocating the Warrant - cleaning train (Lap 1).? ?At the end of the warrant it sets a sensor? which?sets " Route?2" then runs Warrant - Lap 2, Lap 2 Calls Lap 3, and Lap 3 calls Lap 4.? The routes?set the turnouts?every time reliably.

2.? Like you, I use SML to get speeds set for each block.? JMRI does not allow ramping up to "normal speed between control points.? For example, I have a main block 3 and a side block 3, a main block 4 then a main block 5 and a side block 5.? When the turnouts at each end of the siding a set to the main, trains on the Main run at "Normal" speed for that block, and at Normal on block 4.? However, when the sidings are thrown, the trains on the Main block 4 stay on a medium speed rather than ramping up to Normal between turnouts.??

3.? " Normal " speed seems to change over time.? On my layout, Normal speed is 50MPH, with all main blocks set to operate at that speed.? However, over time, the normal speed (especially coming from a siding to the main) will remain at the medium speed, But NOT ALL THE TIME!? Drives me crazy!

4.? I have a special block with a grade crossing with gates and flashers.? On this block I want to do a Grade crossing sequence - Long, Long, Short, Long with the horn.? Working the block from the right to left direction, it works out okay, timing wise, and I can tweak?it to?get it just right.? Going from Left to right, I cannot get the block to allow me to adjust the timing?of the horn.? I change the?"on" time?(from 6 seconds to 8 or 9) but the timing does not change.? The horn starts to sound about 2 seconds into the block.? Again, drives me crazy....

5.? This gets me to the timing changes.? The way the program logs the milliseconds as elapsed time is not always constant.? For example, Normal speed is 50 scale miles per hour, or 9.99 inches/second.? When I look at the throttle?command list, it does not always match up, and I dont?know why.

My experience with block speed vs signal speed is that JMRI will ALWAYS (well mostly) reduce the speed as I described above, even when I think it should?be running at Normal speed.

If you have any insight to any of this?stuff, I am all ears!? It has been quite the learning curve.....!

On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 5:43?PM Nags via <snowy999=[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 08:10 AM, Keith Williams wrote:
I don't think the the warrants are acting like they should.?
Welcome to the club. I've had lots of 'fun' getting things to function the way I thought they should in respect of signals and train speed.
The signal system will impact how speed changes (or doesn't). I employ SML and/or LogixNG to control 'real' and 'internal' signals although they are currently all internal as I'm developing my JMRI as I build the layout. On problem I had was trains not ramping up to a higher speed on a proceed signal.
It also seems oblock speeds are not applied as I would expect. It appears the warrant logic will look at the signal, apply the signal speed and disregard any block speed. If you have set a restrictive block speed and the entry signal is at proceed (at normal), the train won't slow to the lower block speed but run at the speed defined for 'normal'.
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10
 

Hi Keith,
I'm very much on the learning curve and you seem to be far ahead of me in what you're attempting.
When simulating train runs using NX Warrants (saved) I've had (have) issues with speed. I'm not a java programmer but I've attempted to read through the code and raised questions on this forum to clarify with varying luck. There's a lot going on in the code and it's pretty confusing, with numerous places where it calculates speed changes. There are a number of factors it considers.
?Now because I'm simulating a train, I don't need to take into account the physical condition of a 'loco'. However, during a run JMRI may change the speed profile, this manifested itself when a Warrant ran at a different speed after the first run - the throttle settings were unchanged but the throttle to speed ratio had changed.
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10
 

Keith,

For item 2, maintaining a medium speed between sidings is valid. ?There is no signal indication to run at a higher speed. ?If you had multiple intermediate ABS or ABP signals between the control points, then you can have higher speeds between the control points.

Dave Sand


----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd
Date: Sunday, October 06, 2024 6:41 PM

Nags, thanks for the response.? I have had a LOT of issues.? These all started out as a way to automate my cleaning train.? I want to make a lap from Buffalo Yard to Chicago Yard, on the normal straight through path (not going into any sidings.? Then go from Chicago to Buffalo, again on the main line only in Lap 2.? Then in Lap 3. I want to go from Buffalo to Chicago, hitting all of the passing Sidings, and in Lap 4 Chicago to Buffalo again hitting all of the sidings.? ?This led me to the following issues:

1. When a warrant allocates a route, it does not ALWAYS allocate it correctly.? I got around this by making a button?on the panel?that sets a "Route" (In this case all Main Line turnouts are closed) prior to allocating the Warrant - cleaning train (Lap 1).? ?At the end of the warrant it sets a sensor? which?sets " Route?2" then runs Warrant - Lap 2, Lap 2 Calls Lap 3, and Lap 3 calls Lap 4.? The routes?set the turnouts?every time reliably.

2.? Like you, I use SML to get speeds set for each block.? JMRI does not allow ramping up to "normal speed between control points.? For example, I have a main block 3 and a side block 3, a main block 4 then a main block 5 and a side block 5.? When the turnouts at each end of the siding a set to the main, trains on the Main run at "Normal" speed for that block, and at Normal on block 4.? However, when the sidings are thrown, the trains on the Main block 4 stay on a medium speed rather than ramping up to Normal between turnouts.??

3.? " Normal " speed seems to change over time.? On my layout, Normal speed is 50MPH, with all main blocks set to operate at that speed.? However, over time, the normal speed (especially coming from a siding to the main) will remain at the medium speed, But NOT ALL THE TIME!? Drives me crazy!

4.? I have a special block with a grade crossing with gates and flashers.? On this block I want to do a Grade crossing sequence - Long, Long, Short, Long with the horn.? Working the block from the right to left direction, it works out okay, timing wise, and I can tweak?it to?get it just right.? Going from Left to right, I cannot get the block to allow me to adjust the timing?of the horn.? I change the?"on" time?(from 6 seconds to 8 or 9) but the timing does not change.? The horn starts to sound about 2 seconds into the block.? Again, drives me crazy....

5.? This gets me to the timing changes.? The way the program logs the milliseconds as elapsed time is not always constant.? For example, Normal speed is 50 scale miles per hour, or 9.99 inches/second.? When I look at the throttle?command list, it does not always match up, and I dont?know why.

My experience with block speed vs signal speed is that JMRI will ALWAYS (well mostly) reduce the speed as I described above, even when I think it should?be running at Normal speed.

If you have any insight to any of this?stuff, I am all ears!? It has been quite the learning curve.....!

On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 5:43?PM Nags via <snowy999=[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 08:10 AM, Keith Williams wrote:
I don't think the the warrants are acting like they should.?
Welcome to the club. I've had lots of 'fun' getting things to function the way I thought they should in respect of signals and train speed.
The signal system will impact how speed changes (or doesn't). I employ SML and/or LogixNG to control 'real' and 'internal' signals although they are currently all internal as I'm developing my JMRI as I build the layout. On problem I had was trains not ramping up to a higher speed on a proceed signal.
It also seems oblock speeds are not applied as I would expect. It appears the warrant logic will look at the signal, apply the signal speed and disregard any block speed. If you have set a restrictive block speed and the entry signal is at proceed (at normal), the train won't slow to the lower block speed but run at the speed defined for 'normal'.
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10
 

I agree with what you say, as far as it goes, but why does the loco go through a turnout?at the medium speed, then speed up quickly, then slow down again just as quickly, then travel the rest of?the block at the Medium speed?
And, why when coming upon a red signal, the loco stops at the very entrance to the block, rather than a foot or so befor?the red signal?

On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 9:48?PM Dave Sand via <ds=[email protected]> wrote:
Keith,

For item 2, maintaining a medium speed between sidings is valid.? There is no signal indication to run at a higher speed.? If you had multiple intermediate ABS or ABP signals between the control points, then you can have higher speeds between the control points.

Dave Sand


----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd
Date: Sunday, October 06, 2024 6:41 PM

Nags, thanks for the response.? I have had a LOT of issues.? These all started out as a way to automate my cleaning train.? I want to make a lap from Buffalo Yard to Chicago Yard, on the normal straight through path (not going into any sidings.? Then go from Chicago to Buffalo, again on the main line only in Lap 2.? Then in Lap 3. I want to go from Buffalo to Chicago, hitting all of the passing Sidings, and in Lap 4 Chicago to Buffalo again hitting all of the sidings.? ?This led me to the following issues:

1. When a warrant allocates a route, it does not ALWAYS allocate it correctly.? I got around this by making a button?on the panel?that sets a "Route" (In this case all Main Line turnouts are closed) prior to allocating the Warrant - cleaning train (Lap 1).? ?At the end of the warrant it sets a sensor? which?sets " Route?2" then runs Warrant - Lap 2, Lap 2 Calls Lap 3, and Lap 3 calls Lap 4.? The routes?set the turnouts?every time reliably.

2.? Like you, I use SML to get speeds set for each block.? JMRI does not allow ramping up to "normal speed between control points.? For example, I have a main block 3 and a side block 3, a main block 4 then a main block 5 and a side block 5.? When the turnouts at each end of the siding a set to the main, trains on the Main run at "Normal" speed for that block, and at Normal on block 4.? However, when the sidings are thrown, the trains on the Main block 4 stay on a medium speed rather than ramping up to Normal between turnouts.??

3.? " Normal " speed seems to change over time.? On my layout, Normal speed is 50MPH, with all main blocks set to operate at that speed.? However, over time, the normal speed (especially coming from a siding to the main) will remain at the medium speed, But NOT ALL THE TIME!? Drives me crazy!

4.? I have a special block with a grade crossing with gates and flashers.? On this block I want to do a Grade crossing sequence - Long, Long, Short, Long with the horn.? Working the block from the right to left direction, it works out okay, timing wise, and I can tweak?it to?get it just right.? Going from Left to right, I cannot get the block to allow me to adjust the timing?of the horn.? I change the?"on" time?(from 6 seconds to 8 or 9) but the timing does not change.? The horn starts to sound about 2 seconds into the block.? Again, drives me crazy....

5.? This gets me to the timing changes.? The way the program logs the milliseconds as elapsed time is not always constant.? For example, Normal speed is 50 scale miles per hour, or 9.99 inches/second.? When I look at the throttle?command list, it does not always match up, and I dont?know why.

My experience with block speed vs signal speed is that JMRI will ALWAYS (well mostly) reduce the speed as I described above, even when I think it should?be running at Normal speed.

If you have any insight to any of this?stuff, I am all ears!? It has been quite the learning curve.....!

On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 5:43?PM Nags via <snowy999=[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 08:10 AM, Keith Williams wrote:
I don't think the the warrants are acting like they should.?
Welcome to the club. I've had lots of 'fun' getting things to function the way I thought they should in respect of signals and train speed.
The signal system will impact how speed changes (or doesn't). I employ SML and/or LogixNG to control 'real' and 'internal' signals although they are currently all internal as I'm developing my JMRI as I build the layout. On problem I had was trains not ramping up to a higher speed on a proceed signal.
It also seems oblock speeds are not applied as I would expect. It appears the warrant logic will look at the signal, apply the signal speed and disregard any block speed. If you have set a restrictive block speed and the entry signal is at proceed (at normal), the train won't slow to the lower block speed but run at the speed defined for 'normal'.
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10
 

Keith,

Look at the Warrant script. ?That should tell you the loco plans to do. ?If it plans to speed up it might start that process and then it discovers that a slower speed is needed at the next signal.

The stop on block entry sounds like a problem with the ramping configuration (whatever that means).

Dave Sand


----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd
Date: Friday, October 11, 2024 10:58 AM

I agree with what you say, as far as it goes, but why does the loco go through a turnout?at the medium speed, then speed up quickly, then slow down again just as quickly, then travel the rest of?the block at the Medium speed?
And, why when coming upon a red signal, the loco stops at the very entrance to the block, rather than a foot or so befor?the red signal?

On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 9:48?PM Dave Sand via <ds=[email protected]> wrote:

Keith,

For item 2, maintaining a medium speed between sidings is valid.? There is no signal indication to run at a higher speed.? If you had multiple intermediate ABS or ABP signals between the control points, then you can have higher speeds between the control points.

Dave Sand


----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd
Date: Sunday, October 06, 2024 6:41 PM

Nags, thanks for the response.? I have had a LOT of issues.? These all started out as a way to automate my cleaning train.? I want to make a lap from Buffalo Yard to Chicago Yard, on the normal straight through path (not going into any sidings.? Then go from Chicago to Buffalo, again on the main line only in Lap 2.? Then in Lap 3. I want to go from Buffalo to Chicago, hitting all of the passing Sidings, and in Lap 4 Chicago to Buffalo again hitting all of the sidings.? ?This led me to the following issues:

1. When a warrant allocates a route, it does not ALWAYS allocate it correctly.? I got around this by making a button?on the panel?that sets a "Route" (In this case all Main Line turnouts are closed) prior to allocating the Warrant - cleaning train (Lap 1).? ?At the end of the warrant it sets a sensor? which?sets " Route?2" then runs Warrant - Lap 2, Lap 2 Calls Lap 3, and Lap 3 calls Lap 4.? The routes?set the turnouts?every time reliably.

2.? Like you, I use SML to get speeds set for each block.? JMRI does not allow ramping up to "normal speed between control points.? For example, I have a main block 3 and a side block 3, a main block 4 then a main block 5 and a side block 5.? When the turnouts at each end of the siding a set to the main, trains on the Main run at "Normal" speed for that block, and at Normal on block 4.? However, when the sidings are thrown, the trains on the Main block 4 stay on a medium speed rather than ramping up to Normal between turnouts.??

3.? " Normal " speed seems to change over time.? On my layout, Normal speed is 50MPH, with all main blocks set to operate at that speed.? However, over time, the normal speed (especially coming from a siding to the main) will remain at the medium speed, But NOT ALL THE TIME!? Drives me crazy!

4.? I have a special block with a grade crossing with gates and flashers.? On this block I want to do a Grade crossing sequence - Long, Long, Short, Long with the horn.? Working the block from the right to left direction, it works out okay, timing wise, and I can tweak?it to?get it just right.? Going from Left to right, I cannot get the block to allow me to adjust the timing?of the horn.? I change the?"on" time?(from 6 seconds to 8 or 9) but the timing does not change.? The horn starts to sound about 2 seconds into the block.? Again, drives me crazy....

5.? This gets me to the timing changes.? The way the program logs the milliseconds as elapsed time is not always constant.? For example, Normal speed is 50 scale miles per hour, or 9.99 inches/second.? When I look at the throttle?command list, it does not always match up, and I dont?know why.

My experience with block speed vs signal speed is that JMRI will ALWAYS (well mostly) reduce the speed as I described above, even when I think it should?be running at Normal speed.

If you have any insight to any of this?stuff, I am all ears!? It has been quite the learning curve.....!

On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 5:43?PM Nags via <snowy999=[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 08:10 AM, Keith Williams wrote:
I don't think the the warrants are acting like they should.?
Welcome to the club. I've had lots of 'fun' getting things to function the way I thought they should in respect of signals and train speed.
The signal system will impact how speed changes (or doesn't). I employ SML and/or LogixNG to control 'real' and 'internal' signals although they are currently all internal as I'm developing my JMRI as I build the layout. On problem I had was trains not ramping up to a higher speed on a proceed signal.
It also seems oblock speeds are not applied as I would expect. It appears the warrant logic will look at the signal, apply the signal speed and disregard any block speed. If you have set a restrictive block speed and the entry signal is at proceed (at normal), the train won't slow to the lower block speed but run at the speed defined for 'normal'.
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10
 

Maybe this?
The checkbox Don't Ramp Speed changes Sets an option on how to change the speed when a signal or rogue occupation is detected ahead. The default is to incrementally slow the train before reaching the end of the approach block. Selecting the option will make an immediate speed change upon entering the approach block.
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10
 

Nags,
this statement "The default is to incrementally slow the train before reaching the end of the approach block." is what I want to happen!? It does not.

On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 7:32?PM Nags via <snowy999=[email protected]> wrote:
Maybe this?
The checkbox Don't Ramp Speed changes Sets an option on how to change the speed when a signal or rogue occupation is detected ahead. The default is to incrementally slow the train before reaching the end of the approach block. Selecting the option will make an immediate speed change upon entering the approach block.
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10
 

Keith,

If you upload your current xml file to the group's ProblemsBeingWorkedOn file folder and indicated which warrant is not behaving as expect, we might be able to figure out what is happening.

Dave Sand


----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd #warrants
Date: Saturday, October 12, 2024 8:18 AM

Nags,
this statement "The default is to incrementally slow the train before reaching the end of the approach block." is what I want to happen!? It does not.

On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 7:32?PM Nags via <snowy999=[email protected]> wrote:
Maybe this?
The checkbox Don't Ramp Speed changes Sets an option on how to change the speed when a signal or rogue occupation is detected ahead. The default is to incrementally slow the train before reaching the end of the approach block. Selecting the option will make an immediate speed change upon entering the approach block.
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10
 

Dave, I just uploaded? it.? See if you can see anything im doing?wrong or not doing right, lol!


On Sat, Oct 12, 2024 at 2:54?PM Dave Sand via <ds=[email protected]> wrote:
Keith,

If you upload your current xml file to the group's ProblemsBeingWorkedOn file folder and indicated which warrant is not behaving as expect, we might be able to figure out what is happening.

Dave Sand


----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd #warrants
Date: Saturday, October 12, 2024 8:18 AM

Nags,
this statement "The default is to incrementally slow the train before reaching the end of the approach block." is what I want to happen!? It does not.

On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 7:32?PM Nags via <snowy999=[email protected]> wrote:
Maybe this?
The checkbox Don't Ramp Speed changes Sets an option on how to change the speed when a signal or rogue occupation is detected ahead. The default is to incrementally slow the train before reaching the end of the approach block. Selecting the option will make an immediate speed change upon entering the approach block.
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10
 

On Sat, Oct 12, 2024 at 02:59 AM, Keith Williams wrote:
And, why when coming upon a red signal, the loco stops at the very entrance to the block, rather than a foot or so befor?the red signal?
Perhaps just check the location of the signal in the oblock (signal) table, is the portal correct? I've done this myself.
?
BTW, OBlock, Path and signal offset lengths are how it calculates ramp up and speeds. The code also uses the length for dynamic speed profiling - for instance here the path is 2000mm but the code has determined it covered a longer distance and thus the speed/throttle ratio is incorrect. If issue occurs again (I think three times) then it amends that ratio.?
?
09:33:37,361 jmri.jmrit.logix.SpeedUtil ? ? ? ? ? ?INFO ?- Bad speed measurements data for block 282D CTA(S) 282-350. aveThrottle= 0.55232996, ?measuredSpeed= 223.33891,(TGVmax= 563.6746), distTravelled= 2284.7302, pathLen= 2000.0 [AWT-EventQueue-0]
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10
 

Keith,

I did a simulated test of Cleaner 3rd Lap. ?Was this created using learning mode or as a NX warrant? ?Does the loco roster entry have a speed profile?

I used Side Block 3 as the test case where the train has to stop for a Stop signal indication.

The general behavior is that when a train enters a block it ramps up to the block speed if necessary. ?If a reduced speed is required at the end of the block, the down ramp time is calculated based on the current speed and the target speed. ?The ramp values are in Preferences -> Warrants. ?

The elapsed time for Side Block 3 in the Warrant was about 22 seconds. ?When the time expired, I would get a delayed arrival for SM55. ?If I did nothing, eventually it would ramp down and stop for the signal. ?Based on that clue, I tried several elapsed times. ?60 seconds worked. ?The train ran at normal speed for 45 seconds and then spent 11 seconds ramping down to stop.

These are preliminary results and are not consistent from run to run.

Dave Sand



----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd #warrants
Date: Sunday, October 13, 2024 1:38 PM

Dave, I just uploaded? it.? See if you can see anything im doing?wrong or not doing right, lol!

On Sat, Oct 12, 2024 at 2:54?PM Dave Sand via <ds=[email protected]> wrote:

Keith,

If you upload your current xml file to the group's ProblemsBeingWorkedOn file folder and indicated which warrant is not behaving as expect, we might be able to figure out what is happening.

Dave Sand


----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd #warrants
Date: Saturday, October 12, 2024 8:18 AM

Nags,
this statement "The default is to incrementally slow the train before reaching the end of the approach block." is what I want to happen!? It does not.

On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 7:32?PM Nags via <snowy999=[email protected]> wrote:
Maybe this?
The checkbox Don't Ramp Speed changes Sets an option on how to change the speed when a signal or rogue occupation is detected ahead. The default is to incrementally slow the train before reaching the end of the approach block. Selecting the option will make an immediate speed change upon entering the approach block.
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10
 

Dave,
Very interesting.? To answer your questions:
1.? I tried both - created with an N-X and also with the learning?route.? The learning?route is the current one.? In learning?mode (auto run) the train runs at full "normal" speed, causing the late arrival messages to the next block when it is run at the real?"normal" speed for that block..
2.? Yes the loco roster has speed profiles for most of the loco's.? I was using 8235 (part of a consist w/8241) for my tests.

Comments about your results:
1.? I was not aware you could (should) revise the elapsed time, as the instructions say that if changes in the block require changes in the individual timing of a line, the overall timing of the block should?stay the same.
2.? Your?third point is where I am having difficulty.? The down ramp time may in fact be correct, but it starts at the wrong time
3.? Regarding Block 3 testing: when you say "When the time expired, I would get a delayed arrival for SM55.? If I did nothing, eventually it would ramp down and stop for the signal."? Where exactly did it ramp down for the red?? Normally (without messing with?the elapsed time values) it would enter the block, ramp up to the "normal speed, then realize that this was a siding block between divirging?points, and ramp back down to the required speed, normally "medium", then stop, usually only 15% or 20% into the block.? This would imply that the timing is fixed, based on the warrant "teach" speed, rather than?dynamic, based on the current speed.? This leads to your comment about changing the timing of the sidings.? I?will work on that.....!
4.? 60 Seconds is about 3 times the normal timing.? My "normal" speed is 50 sMPH, and "medium" is 25 sMPH
5.? This problem also occurs when running lap 1 or lap 2, which does not traverse any of the passing sidings. For example, if in MB1, traveling?toward MB2, and SM45 is thrown, giving a red signal, the train will stop about 20% into MB1, (Varies from 20% to 60%, but always very short of the signal) and send a message that it is waiting for the signal to clear before?it can proceed.

I will continue to test, to see if I can improve it.? Thank you?very?much for your efforts!? I do appreciate this!

On Tue, Oct 22, 2024 at 1:35?AM Dave Sand via <ds=[email protected]> wrote:
Keith,

I did a simulated test of Cleaner 3rd Lap.? Was this created using learning mode or as a NX warrant?? Does the loco roster entry have a speed profile?

I used Side Block 3 as the test case where the train has to stop for a Stop signal indication.

The general behavior is that when a train enters a block it ramps up to the block speed if necessary.? If a reduced speed is required at the end of the block, the down ramp time is calculated based on the current speed and the target speed.? The ramp values are in Preferences -> Warrants. ?

The elapsed time for Side Block 3 in the Warrant was about 22 seconds.? When the time expired, I would get a delayed arrival for SM55.? If I did nothing, eventually it would ramp down and stop for the signal.? Based on that clue, I tried several elapsed times. ?60 seconds worked.? The train ran at normal speed for 45 seconds and then spent 11 seconds ramping down to stop.

These are preliminary results and are not consistent from run to run.

Dave Sand



----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd #warrants
Date: Sunday, October 13, 2024 1:38 PM

Dave, I just uploaded? it.? See if you can see anything im doing?wrong or not doing right, lol!

On Sat, Oct 12, 2024 at 2:54?PM Dave Sand via <ds=[email protected]> wrote:

Keith,

If you upload your current xml file to the group's ProblemsBeingWorkedOn file folder and indicated which warrant is not behaving as expect, we might be able to figure out what is happening.

Dave Sand


----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd #warrants
Date: Saturday, October 12, 2024 8:18 AM

Nags,
this statement "The default is to incrementally slow the train before reaching the end of the approach block." is what I want to happen!? It does not.

On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 7:32?PM Nags via <snowy999=[email protected]> wrote:
Maybe this?
The checkbox Don't Ramp Speed changes Sets an option on how to change the speed when a signal or rogue occupation is detected ahead. The default is to incrementally slow the train before reaching the end of the approach block. Selecting the option will make an immediate speed change upon entering the approach block.
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10
 

Keith,

In "Preferences -> Warrants" there is "Trace warrant activity on console" option. ?If you enable the option, you will get useful information on the system console.

Here is the result from a test configuration.

15:51:16,702 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" on warrant "Left to Right" launched. runState= Running [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:51:16,706 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" sets Signal "Alpha-Left-A" for block "OB::Alpha-Left". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:51:44,727 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" entering block "OB::Alpha-Left". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:51:44,728 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" sets Signal "Alpha-Right-B" for block "OB::Alpha-Right". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:51:55,506 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" entering block "OB::Alpha-Main". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:51:55,511 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" decrease speed to "Medium" in 1,692ms due to Signal at block "OB::Alpha-Main". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:51:57,257 jmri.jmrit.logix.Engineer???????????? INFO? - Train "1243" begins ramp to speed "Medium" in block "OB::Alpha-Main". [CommandDelay(1243-Medium)]
15:52:00,277 jmri.jmrit.logix.Engineer???????????? INFO? - Train "1243" ends ramp to speed "Medium" at block "OB::Alpha-Main". [Ramp(1243)]
15:52:07,772 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" entering block "OB::Alpha-Right". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:52:07,774 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" sets Signal "Beta-Left-A" for block "OB::Beta-Left". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:52:13,662 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" entering block "OB::Middle". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:52:13,664 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" decrease speed to "Stop" in 2,048ms due to Signal at block "OB::Middle". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:52:15,760 jmri.jmrit.logix.Engineer???????????? INFO? - Train "1243" begins ramp to speed "Stop" in block "OB::Middle". [CommandDelay(1243-Stop)]
15:52:22,554 jmri.jmrit.logix.Engineer???????????? INFO? - Train "1243" ends ramp to speed "Stop" at block "OB::Middle". [Ramp(1243)]
15:52:37,513 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" can proceed. Signal "Beta-Left-A" sets aspect "Normal". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:52:39,564 jmri.jmrit.logix.Engineer???????????? INFO? - Train "1243" begins ramp to speed "Normal" in block "OB::Middle". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:52:49,374 jmri.jmrit.logix.Engineer???????????? INFO? - Train "1243" ends ramp to speed "Normal" at block "OB::Middle". [Ramp(1243)]
15:52:55,410 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" entering block "OB::Beta-Left". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:52:55,412 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" sets Signal "Beta-Right-B" for block "OB::Beta-Right". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:52:55,412 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" decrease speed to "Medium" in 54ms due to Signal at block "OB::Beta-Main". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:52:55,517 jmri.jmrit.logix.Engineer???????????? INFO? - Train "1243" begins ramp to speed "Medium" in block "OB::Beta-Left". [CommandDelay(1243-Medium)]
15:53:00,799 jmri.jmrit.logix.Engineer???????????? INFO? - Train "1243" ends ramp to speed "Medium" at block "OB::Beta-Left". [Ramp(1243)]
15:53:04,957 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" entering block "OB::Beta-Main". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:53:09,403 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" entering block "OB::Beta-Right". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:53:15,165 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" entering block "OB::Right-Approach". [AWT-EventQueue-0]
15:53:32,222 jmri.jmrit.logix.Warrant????????????? INFO? - Train "1243" ends warrant "Left to Right". Now occupying block "OB::Right-Approach". [Engineer(1243)]

The "sets Signal" lines indicate that the signal mast will be the controlling signal mast. ?It is not changing the aspect.

The "decrease speed" lines indicate the speed will need to be decreased, but the ramp down will be delayed by some time value. ?In theory, the delay and ramp down should result in a stop near the end of the block. ?NOTE: ?There is a bug that causes the message to always display "1ms". ?I have submitted a fix to display the correct value. ?That will be available in the 5.9.6 test release. ?

When testing with your layout, the ramp down delays tend to be in 20 to 60 second range.

Dave Sand



----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd #warrants
Date: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 1:01 PM

Dave,
Very interesting.? To answer your questions:
1.? I tried both - created with an N-X and also with the learning?route.? The learning?route is the current one.? In learning?mode (auto run) the train runs at full "normal" speed, causing the late arrival messages to the next block when it is run at the real?"normal" speed for that block..
2.? Yes the loco roster has speed profiles for most of the loco's.? I was using 8235 (part of a consist w/8241) for my tests.

Comments about your results:
1.? I was not aware you could (should) revise the elapsed time, as the instructions say that if changes in the block require changes in the individual timing of a line, the overall timing of the block should?stay the same.
2.? Your?third point is where I am having difficulty.? The down ramp time may in fact be correct, but it starts at the wrong time
3.? Regarding Block 3 testing: when you say "When the time expired, I would get a delayed arrival for SM55.? If I did nothing, eventually it would ramp down and stop for the signal."? Where exactly did it ramp down for the red?? Normally (without messing with?the elapsed time values) it would enter the block, ramp up to the "normal speed, then realize that this was a siding block between divirging?points, and ramp back down to the required speed, normally "medium", then stop, usually only 15% or 20% into the block.? This would imply that the timing is fixed, based on the warrant "teach" speed, rather than?dynamic, based on the current speed.? This leads to your comment about changing the timing of the sidings.? I?will work on that.....!
4.? 60 Seconds is about 3 times the normal timing.? My "normal" speed is 50 sMPH, and "medium" is 25 sMPH
5.? This problem also occurs when running lap 1 or lap 2, which does not traverse any of the passing sidings. For example, if in MB1, traveling?toward MB2, and SM45 is thrown, giving a red signal, the train will stop about 20% into MB1, (Varies from 20% to 60%, but always very short of the signal) and send a message that it is waiting for the signal to clear before?it can proceed.

I will continue to test, to see if I can improve it.? Thank you?very?much for your efforts!? I do appreciate this!

On Tue, Oct 22, 2024 at 1:35?AM Dave Sand via <ds=[email protected]> wrote:

Keith,

I did a simulated test of Cleaner 3rd Lap.? Was this created using learning mode or as a NX warrant?? Does the loco roster entry have a speed profile?

I used Side Block 3 as the test case where the train has to stop for a Stop signal indication.

The general behavior is that when a train enters a block it ramps up to the block speed if necessary.? If a reduced speed is required at the end of the block, the down ramp time is calculated based on the current speed and the target speed.? The ramp values are in Preferences -> Warrants. ?

The elapsed time for Side Block 3 in the Warrant was about 22 seconds.? When the time expired, I would get a delayed arrival for SM55.? If I did nothing, eventually it would ramp down and stop for the signal.? Based on that clue, I tried several elapsed times. ?60 seconds worked.? The train ran at normal speed for 45 seconds and then spent 11 seconds ramping down to stop.

These are preliminary results and are not consistent from run to run.

Dave Sand



----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd #warrants
Date: Sunday, October 13, 2024 1:38 PM

Dave, I just uploaded? it.? See if you can see anything im doing?wrong or not doing right, lol!

On Sat, Oct 12, 2024 at 2:54?PM Dave Sand via <ds=[email protected]> wrote:

Keith,

If you upload your current xml file to the group's ProblemsBeingWorkedOn file folder and indicated which warrant is not behaving as expect, we might be able to figure out what is happening.

Dave Sand


----- Original message -----
From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd #warrants
Date: Saturday, October 12, 2024 8:18 AM

Nags,
this statement "The default is to incrementally slow the train before reaching the end of the approach block." is what I want to happen!? It does not.

On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 7:32?PM Nags via <snowy999=[email protected]> wrote:
Maybe this?
The checkbox Don't Ramp Speed changes Sets an option on how to change the speed when a signal or rogue occupation is detected ahead. The default is to incrementally slow the train before reaching the end of the approach block. Selecting the option will make an immediate speed change upon entering the approach block.
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10

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