Locked Signal heads/ masts
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While reading the “Signal” thread description of how to setup Signals, it spurred a question. Since I only have single headed masts, do I setup signal heads or signal masts. Currently I use my three lamp heads as signal heads to indicate the turnout positions but that will be moved to dwarf red/green signal heads at the turnouts so the three lamp displays will be used for block control signals, so I’m not sure which way to go for block control, heads or masts. I do not have any multiple head signal masts for blocks so what should I consider to use? Heads or masts?
I can find multi-head mast graphic files but I was looking for a three lamp single head display graphic for blocks on the layout editor but couldn’t find the right file. Does one exist? BTW - kudos to the original JMRI creators and to all those who picked up the torch along the way. Great program. John Bauchiero - D&H Model Railroad - NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4B, DCC-EX - JMRI current test version |
开云体育Jerry,Yes, Agree and understand that statement but there are two separate ways to program the logic to support of the hardware. SSL and SML. I would like to do this setup only once. I have read that SSL works but SML has extra features which I don’t understand the difference. I can setup SML as long as I don’t need to use Logix or LogixNG. I was looking for a quick description between why SSL or SML, what’s ?the difference.? John ?Bauchiero - D&H Model Railroad -?NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4b, DCC-EX - JMRI current test version
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John, it sounds like for your purposes signal heads would be sufficient, but you could do either.? ?As Billybob stated, depends on what hardware you are using to drive the signals.? An NCE Light-It for example could be either a signal head or a signal mast decoder.? Other hardware might require you to build signal heads and then assign them to the mast which is an extra step that may or may not be worth it depending on your ultimate goal.?
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In my opinion, the reason for using signal mast logic would be to set up prototypical ABS signaling and then layering CTC over it.? SML makes it very easy to get up and running without having to invent a lot of the logic along the way and covers complex track arrangements that SSL does not.? The problem with using SML is when you do not follow what the prototype does.? ?For example, if you use the B&O-1980 system, then you need to construct your signal system the same way as the B&O, else you are going to run into problems.??
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Here is an example of SML.? This plan represents Allen McClelland's V&O if signaling using JMRI.? The system is the Basic Signal System which is designed to work a lot like SSL.? It's also designed to be more generous with clear signals as compared to one of the proto systems included with JMRI.? As you can see in the photo, ABS logic is in effect.? Next step would be to layer control over it so signals wouldn't be clear in both directions.
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Greg McCartney |
开云体育Thanks Greg for the description.John ?Bauchiero - D&H Model Railroad -?NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4b, DCC-EX - JMRI current test version
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I agree that it would be a lot of work to emulate SML using logix, but I don't think one would want to take that approach. replicating signal logic with JMRI logix is simple, for a simple signal system, and complicated for a complicated signal system. In either case Logix are the way to make the system do precisely what you want since they are explicit. Most are not a "Signal Rivet Counter" as I am so SML is a fantastic tool for most.?
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I also recommend the OP use SML if his hardware supports it. |
开云体育Thanks to all who clarified my signaling question. Now I understand where I was going wrong. Currently I am using light-it with dwarf signals for turnouts. To move on to full block signaling I want to use masts not as 'DCC Signal Mast Decoder' but as ‘Signal Head Controlled Mast’, specifying each decoder separately, if I understand correctly. As the former I wasn’t sure how to incorporate the turnout position into the signals.?By constructing the mast from two light-it heads I can use one double searchlight mast on the LE display but have two distinct physical signals, a three light high mast for blocks and, a dwarf for turnout position? I assume that was the method everyone offered. There are so many options that it took a while to find the right combination.? John ?Bauchiero - D&H Model Railroad -?NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4b, DCC-EX - JMRI current test version |
开云体育One question I forgot to add. Maybe this is obvious but for 'Add/Edit Signal Mast' do I use IHxx signal heads or NH$xx signal heads. I assume NH$xx is just to drive the light-it.John ?Bauchiero - D&H Model Railroad -?NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4b, DCC-EX - JMRI current test version |
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John B,
The bulk of the signal mast logic systems have aspects that refer to the turnout as part of the aspect. Generally labeled diverging and usually another word of two like diverging approach or diverging slow. Physically using a dwarf combined with a high mast is not something in most if not any of the systems. Can you roll your own, yes. But that's a lot more work. Also that high and dwarf combo would not be something immediately understood by most operators. Generally the rule systems expect that you have a mast with one or more heads to display the appearance of the aspects. Never on two different physical devices. But maybe somebody can provide a prototype example. -Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team www.jmri.org www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org www.cnymod.com |
开云体育Ok Thanks Ken and Dave. Being the single operator I was _not_ trying to emulate a prototypical system but instead make something as a layout visual. More reading to do then if I am to use multi-headed SML masts. Since all of my physical masts and dwarfs are single headed, I’ll start with single headed high masts for traffic until I add multi-head masts when I understand rolling everything together, blocks and turnouts.John ?Bauchiero - D&H Model Railroad -?NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4b, DCC-EX - JMRI current test version
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开云体育Ken, Dwarf signals are typically used in low speed applications, so a dwarf green would be Slow Clear, and a high green Clear. This could be done with a dwarf on the siding and high signal on the main. An example from the DRGW Tennessee Pass. Photo Eric Haas Dick :) On 9/15/2024 4:21 PM, Ken Cameron
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John B, The bulk of the signal mast logic systems have aspects that refer to the turnout as part of the aspect. Generally labeled diverging and usually another word of two like diverging approach or diverging slow. Physically using a dwarf combined with a high mast is not something in most if not any of the systems. Can you roll your own, yes. But that's a lot more work. Also that high and dwarf combo would not be something immediately understood by most operators. Generally the rule systems expect that you have a mast with one or more heads to display the appearance of the aspects. Never on two different physical devices. But maybe somebody can provide a prototype example. -Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team |
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Two and three head masts indicate speed and route at turnouts (particularly at the points) as in this interlocking ...
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Approaching the frog may be a single head mast or dwarf if simple main or entry to main.
Track configuration beyond the turnout might be multiple head if there are other elements or routes.
One on my prototype had a double headed mast on simple entry to the main (at one time, there was a passenger station beyond).
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Ken NYNH&H, Old Colony Division, Cape Cod Branch (1949-1959) Loconet * JMRI 5.9.3 * OSX,Win10,Ubuntu Blog: ?
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开云体育Ken,I am creating SSLs and now I understand how they work. All of the signals were created as virtual heads so I could place them on the LE panel and populate the Simple Signal Logic. Now that I am ready to add physical signals I believe I will need to re-create all of the logic again, this time as NH$xxx heads? If they both display aspects on the LE panel and have the same logic dialog box, what is the purpose to create virtual logic at all? Or am I missing something again.? I know when I graduate to SML all bets are off, changes will need to be made.? ? John ?Bauchiero - D&H Model Railroad -?NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4b, DCC-EX - JMRI current test version
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John Bauchiero
Dave Barraza
Ken Cameron
Ken Heywood