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I found this of more than passing interest.
After reading a long, damning article on how Amazon manipulates their products, I thought I would see what I could learn.
Using Safari, I went to , and in their search bar put [mens beard trimmers]. ?At the top of the results, clearly marked as sponsored, were those items whose manufacturers had paid Amazon to place them at the top of their search results. ?So far, so good. ?Oh, when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got 19 matches.
Next, using Brave, I did exactly the same thing. ?Not one single item was identified as sponsored and when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got no matches.
Finally, Google Chrome produced the same results as Brave: ?no sponsored items were so marked.
I find it disturbing that only Safari correctly identified all those items which paid to be sponsored whereas Brave and Google Chrome do not.
An argument for using Safari when you go shopping on Amazon?
Can anyone else replicate these findings?
Happy Thanksgiving to those of us in the U.S.?
Bob ===== 割れ鍋に綴じ蓋 — Warenabe ni tojibuta.? “A perfect lid for any cracked pot.” There is someone out there for everyone.
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On Nov 27, 2024, at 1:37?PM, Bob Gerard via groups.io <rowerbob@...> wrote: An argument for using Safari when you go shopping on Amazon?
Can anyone else replicate these findings? Happy Thanksgiving to those of us in the U.S.? Bob Hi Bob,
Now that's an interesting surprise to me. Thank you for testing and reporting. I would have thought the results to be reversed, so much appreciate you shedding light on this type of thing. All the best, John?
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No one can exactly replicate your results, because the algorithm uses your history to adjust the results. So if you want a totally unbiased results, you cannot have ever used a computer before. ??
Or the sad analogy I tend to use for AI, but also applies here(your) history has shit in your very limited water supply, affecting the results. By this, I mean your existing views, conservative or liberal, Democratic or Republican, this way or that, shades where you look fir answers, and that source tends to want to have you return so tries to give you answers you will like. Very few sources are unbiased.?
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On Nov 27, 2024, at 10:37, Bob Gerard via groups.io <rowerbob@...> wrote:
? I found this of more than passing interest.
After reading a long, damning article on how Amazon manipulates their products, I thought I would see what I could learn.
Using Safari, I went to , and in their search bar put [mens beard trimmers]. ?At the top of the results, clearly marked as sponsored, were those items whose manufacturers had paid Amazon to place them at the top of their search results. ?So far, so good. ?Oh, when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got 19 matches.
Next, using Brave, I did exactly the same thing. ?Not one single item was identified as sponsored and when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got no matches.
Finally, Google Chrome produced the same results as Brave: ?no sponsored items were so marked.
I find it disturbing that only Safari correctly identified all those items which paid to be sponsored whereas Brave and Google Chrome do not.
An argument for using Safari when you go shopping on Amazon?
Can anyone else replicate these findings?
Happy Thanksgiving to those of us in the U.S.?
Bob ===== 割れ鍋に綴じ蓋 — Warenabe ni tojibuta.? “A perfect lid for any cracked pot.” There is someone out there for everyone.
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I have seen the phrase "surveillance capitalism" used to describe this sort of thing.
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On Nov 27, 2024, at 3:32?PM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
No one can exactly replicate your results, because the algorithm uses your history to adjust the results. So if you want a totally unbiased results, you cannot have ever used a computer before.
Or the sad analogy I tend to use for AI, but also applies here(your) history has shit in your very limited water supply, affecting the results. By this, I mean your existing views, conservative or liberal, Democratic or Republican, this way or that, shades where you look fir answers, and that source tends to want to have you return so tries to give you answers you will like. Very few sources are unbiased.
Brent
On my iPhone Xr
On Nov 27, 2024, at 10:37, Bob Gerard via groups.io <rowerbob@...> wrote:
?I found this of more than passing interest.
After reading a long, damning article on how Amazon manipulates their products, I thought I would see what I could learn.
Using Safari, I went to Amazon.com, and in their search bar put [mens beard trimmers]. At the top of the results, clearly marked as sponsored, were those items whose manufacturers had paid Amazon to place them at the top of their search results. So far, so good. Oh, when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got 19 matches.
Next, using Brave, I did exactly the same thing. Not one single item was identified as sponsored and when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got no matches.
Finally, Google Chrome produced the same results as Brave: no sponsored items were so marked.
I find it disturbing that only Safari correctly identified all those items which paid to be sponsored whereas Brave and Google Chrome do not.
An argument for using Safari when you go shopping on Amazon?
Can anyone else replicate these findings?
Happy Thanksgiving to those of us in the U.S.
Bob
=====
割れ鍋に綴じ蓋 — Warenabe ni tojibuta.
“A perfect lid for any cracked pot.”
There is someone out there for everyone.
|
I’ve wondered, if you do the search in a Private window, do you get an unbiased result, which would presumably be the same, or very similar, from user to user?
shalom, ncoom
???? ??????? small-odds-man We’re all here because we’re not all there
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On 27 Nov 2024, at 23:32, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
No one can exactly replicate your results, because the algorithm uses your history to adjust the results. So if you want a totally unbiased results, you cannot have ever used a computer before. ??
Or the sad analogy I tend to use for AI, but also applies here(your) history has shit in your very limited water supply, affecting the results. By this, I mean your existing views, conservative or liberal, Democratic or Republican, this way or that, shades where you look fir answers, and that source tends to want to have you return so tries to give you answers you will like. Very few sources are unbiased.? On Nov 27, 2024, at 10:37, Bob Gerard via groups.io <rowerbob@...> wrote:
? I found this of more than passing interest.
After reading a long, damning article on how Amazon manipulates their products, I thought I would see what I could learn.
Using Safari, I went to , and in their search bar put [mens beard trimmers]. ?At the top of the results, clearly marked as sponsored, were those items whose manufacturers had paid Amazon to place them at the top of their search results. ?So far, so good. ?Oh, when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got 19 matches.
Next, using Brave, I did exactly the same thing. ?Not one single item was identified as sponsored and when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got no matches.
Finally, Google Chrome produced the same results as Brave: ?no sponsored items were so marked.
I find it disturbing that only Safari correctly identified all those items which paid to be sponsored whereas Brave and Google Chrome do not.
An argument for using Safari when you go shopping on Amazon?
Can anyone else replicate these findings?
Happy Thanksgiving to those of us in the U.S.?
Bob ===== 割れ鍋に綴じ蓋 — Warenabe ni tojibuta.? “A perfect lid for any cracked pot.” There is someone out there for everyone.
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Apart from the “sponsored” marking …. were the results the same??
Peter
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On 27 Nov 2024, at 19.37, Bob Gerard via groups.io <rowerbob@...> wrote:
I found this of more than passing interest.
After reading a long, damning article on how Amazon manipulates their products, I thought I would see what I could learn.
Using Safari, I went to , and in their search bar put [mens beard trimmers]. ?At the top of the results, clearly marked as sponsored, were those items whose manufacturers had paid Amazon to place them at the top of their search results. ?So far, so good. ?Oh, when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got 19 matches.
Next, using Brave, I did exactly the same thing. ?Not one single item was identified as sponsored and when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got no matches.
Finally, Google Chrome produced the same results as Brave: ?no sponsored items were so marked.
I find it disturbing that only Safari correctly identified all those items which paid to be sponsored whereas Brave and Google Chrome do not.
An argument for using Safari when you go shopping on Amazon?
Can anyone else replicate these findings?
Happy Thanksgiving to those of us in the U.S.?
Bob ===== 割れ鍋に綴じ蓋 — Warenabe ni tojibuta.? “A perfect lid for any cracked pot.” There is someone out there for everyone.
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Also, it would be interesting to know, if you were logged in to an account on Amazon - that way the results would be affedted on stuff yiu have previously searced for or bought …?
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On 27 Nov 2024, at 19.37, Bob Gerard via groups.io <rowerbob@...> wrote:
I found this of more than passing interest.
After reading a long, damning article on how Amazon manipulates their products, I thought I would see what I could learn.
Using Safari, I went to , and in their search bar put [mens beard trimmers]. ?At the top of the results, clearly marked as sponsored, were those items whose manufacturers had paid Amazon to place them at the top of their search results. ?So far, so good. ?Oh, when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got 19 matches.
Next, using Brave, I did exactly the same thing. ?Not one single item was identified as sponsored and when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got no matches.
Finally, Google Chrome produced the same results as Brave: ?no sponsored items were so marked.
I find it disturbing that only Safari correctly identified all those items which paid to be sponsored whereas Brave and Google Chrome do not.
An argument for using Safari when you go shopping on Amazon?
Can anyone else replicate these findings?
Happy Thanksgiving to those of us in the U.S.?
Bob ===== 割れ鍋に綴じ蓋 — Warenabe ni tojibuta.? “A perfect lid for any cracked pot.” There is someone out there for everyone.
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Shoshana Zuboff wrote a fascinating and scary book about it … The Age of Surveillance Capitalism
Absolutely worth reading.
:-)
Peter
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On 27 Nov 2024, at 23.58, Steve Kane via groups.io <skane-l@...> wrote:
I have seen the phrase "surveillance capitalism" used to describe this sort of thing.
On Nov 27, 2024, at 3:32?PM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
No one can exactly replicate your results, because the algorithm uses your history to adjust the results. So if you want a totally unbiased results, you cannot have ever used a computer before.
Or the sad analogy I tend to use for AI, but also applies here(your) history has shit in your very limited water supply, affecting the results. By this, I mean your existing views, conservative or liberal, Democratic or Republican, this way or that, shades where you look fir answers, and that source tends to want to have you return so tries to give you answers you will like. Very few sources are unbiased.
Brent
On my iPhone Xr
On Nov 27, 2024, at 10:37, Bob Gerard via groups.io <rowerbob@...> wrote:
?I found this of more than passing interest.
After reading a long, damning article on how Amazon manipulates their products, I thought I would see what I could learn.
Using Safari, I went to Amazon.com, and in their search bar put [mens beard trimmers]. At the top of the results, clearly marked as sponsored, were those items whose manufacturers had paid Amazon to place them at the top of their search results. So far, so good. Oh, when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got 19 matches.
Next, using Brave, I did exactly the same thing. Not one single item was identified as sponsored and when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got no matches.
Finally, Google Chrome produced the same results as Brave: no sponsored items were so marked.
I find it disturbing that only Safari correctly identified all those items which paid to be sponsored whereas Brave and Google Chrome do not.
An argument for using Safari when you go shopping on Amazon?
Can anyone else replicate these findings?
Happy Thanksgiving to those of us in the U.S.
Bob
=====
割れ鍋に綴じ蓋 — Warenabe ni tojibuta.
“A perfect lid for any cracked pot.”
There is someone out there for everyone.
|
"No one can exactly replicate your results, because the algorithm uses your history to adjust the results. So if you want a totally unbiased results, you cannot have ever used a computer before."
?
Do you use Amazon, because you have completely misinterpreted my email.
?
We are not talking about results - i.e., which products Amazon offers you when you enter a search term - we are talking about the results being clearly identified as [Sponsored], indicating to the person viewing the page that these results have been placed at the top because the manufacturer paid Amazon to put them there. ?
?
It does not matter whether you have visited the site before using your browser.
It does not matter whether you are visiting the site using a VPN.
It does not matter whether you are visiting the site using Privacy settings.
?
In all instances Amazon is supposed to show you which products are sponsored and which are not.
?
I was pointing out that Safari showed sponsored ads whereas Brave and Chrome did not.
?
Bob
?
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Peter,?
I recently sent some info on a pre-paid cremation plan to a friend by email with Apple Mail with an Apple account to his gmail account. Then on Facebook Messenger I told him to check his email.?
I started to get ads for pre-paid cremation plans on FB. I only need one plan, because I am the last “leaf” on my branch.?
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On Nov 28, 2024, at 01:01, Peter Rasmusen <peter@...> wrote:
? Also, it would be interesting to know, if you were logged in to an account on Amazon - that way the results would be affedted on stuff yiu have previously searced for or bought …?
On 27 Nov 2024, at 19.37, Bob Gerard via groups.io <rowerbob@...> wrote:
I found this of more than passing interest.
After reading a long, damning article on how Amazon manipulates their products, I thought I would see what I could learn.
Using Safari, I went to , and in their search bar put [mens beard trimmers]. ?At the top of the results, clearly marked as sponsored, were those items whose manufacturers had paid Amazon to place them at the top of their search results. ?So far, so good. ?Oh, when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got 19 matches.
Next, using Brave, I did exactly the same thing. ?Not one single item was identified as sponsored and when I did a search on that page for “sponsored”, I got no matches.
Finally, Google Chrome produced the same results as Brave: ?no sponsored items were so marked.
I find it disturbing that only Safari correctly identified all those items which paid to be sponsored whereas Brave and Google Chrome do not.
An argument for using Safari when you go shopping on Amazon?
Can anyone else replicate these findings?
Happy Thanksgiving to those of us in the U.S.?
Bob ===== 割れ鍋に綴じ蓋 — Warenabe ni tojibuta.? “A perfect lid for any cracked pot.” There is someone out there for everyone.
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I seldom use Amazon, so yes. I wind them often suggesting what is god for them, not what is good for me. They often offer brands that I have never heard of before. Often breaking an order i and costing more for shipping since I don’t have prime, and I don’t need instant gratification.?
A lot of our interaction with companies on the internet is the results of their needs, than the customer’s needs. I’ve done sales. I did well, because I didn’t pursue a big one time sale. I figured out their needs and filled them as best as I could, and made them a repeat customer. I had customers asking for me in lines where that is not common. And I didn’t do it by spying on them or manipulating them.?
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On Nov 28, 2024, at 12:09, Bob Gerard via groups.io <rowerbob@...> wrote:
? "No one can exactly replicate your results, because the algorithm uses your history to adjust the results. So if you want a totally unbiased results, you cannot have ever used a computer before."
?
Do you use Amazon, because you have completely misinterpreted my email.
?
We are not talking about results - i.e., which products Amazon offers you when you enter a search term - we are talking about the results being clearly identified as [Sponsored], indicating to the person viewing the page that these results have been placed at the top because the manufacturer paid Amazon to put them there. ?
?
It does not matter whether you have visited the site before using your browser.
It does not matter whether you are visiting the site using a VPN.
It does not matter whether you are visiting the site using Privacy settings.
?
In all instances Amazon is supposed to show you which products are sponsored and which are not.
?
I was pointing out that Safari showed sponsored ads whereas Brave and Chrome did not.
?
Bob
?
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Bob Gerard
John
Brent