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I need to track down the rule in Apple Mail that's moving some emails around and having gone through manually the rules front-end dialog I can't find what's triggering this behavior.
Unfortunately Apple does not provide any way to search rules, in any way. I have dozens and dozens, with dozens of child rules.?
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The mail rules used to be located at either:
/Library/Mail/(latest version number)/MailData? or
...twin files called SyncedRules.plist and UnsyncedRules.plist
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But they are not there (or hidden) in Ventura 13.5.1 to my knowledge.
I guess things have changed quite a bit. If I can open the rules file I can just do a quick search for key words and then edit the rules? <dict> code, or at least find the title of the rule and go back to the front-end and try again from there.?
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Anyone know where the rules files went??
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All the best,
John
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Have you tried EasyFind??
It can find anything on your drive, just give it the text. You can set it to search contents only, invisible files and folders, titles, wildcards, etc.?
I don’t use rules in Mail so can’t test it.
Jerry
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On Aug 23, 2023, at 11:23 AM, John Hay via groups.io <OceanCity@...> wrote:
I need to track down the rule in Apple Mail that's moving some emails around and having gone through manually the rules front-end dialog I can't find what's triggering this behavior. Unfortunately Apple does not provide any way to search rules, in any way. I have dozens and dozens, with dozens of child rules.? ?
The mail rules used to be located at either: /Library/Mail/(latest version number)/MailData? or ...twin files called SyncedRules.plist and UnsyncedRules.plist ?
But they are not there (or hidden) in Ventura 13.5.1 to my knowledge. I guess things have changed quite a bit. If I can open the rules file I can just do a quick search for key words and then edit the rules? <dict> code, or at least find the title of the rule and go back to the front-end and try again from there.? ?
Anyone know where the rules files went?? ?
All the best, John
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On Aug 23, 2023, at 5:26 PM, Jerald Levinson <levinson@...> wrote: I don’t use rules in Mail so can’t test it.
Tried?HoudahSpot with no success.
Found it using "Find Any File."
Now will search for the offending code.
Cheers, John?
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Anyone know where the Apple Mail Rules Library files went??
Finally found the Rules Library file (SyncedRules.plist), opened it in BBE, did a search and?instantly?found the key word on line?4999.? /Users/johnh/Library/Mail/V10/MailData/SyncedRules.plist Went back to Mail's rule's GUI, and there it was! ?I didn't see it the hours (I'm dyslexic) I spent manually looking. Oh well.?Problem solved.
Case closed.? Cheers, John
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Wasn’t that exactly where you expected to find the file in the first place?
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On Aug 24, 2023, at 07:59, John Hay via groups.io <OceanCity@...> wrote:
/Users/johnh/Library/Mail/V10/MailData/SyncedRules.plist
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On Aug 24, 2023, at 11:10 AM, Ben Rosenthal <ben@...> wrote: Wasn’t that exactly where you expected to find the file in the first place?
Yes! To be honest.? I'm dyslexic. Story of my life. It must have been there right in front of me the whole time. Oh well. I persist forward, albeit at a slower pace than most. All the best, John?
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Since we are on the subject of Mail Rules, would anyone care to comment on the advice - which I have seen offered several times - that your best bet for constructing rules in Apple’s Mail.app is to log into Mail at iCloud.com and create the rules there instead of using the Mail > Settings > Rules???
Bob ------ 
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On Aug 24, 2023, at 11:49 AM, Bob Gerard via < rowerbob@...> wrote:
Since we are on the subject of Mail Rules, would anyone care to comment on the advice - which I have seen offered several times - that your best bet for constructing rules in Apple’s Mail.app is to log into Mail at??and create the rules there instead of using the Mail > Settings > Rules???
I have rules in both places - remote like on iCloud or GMail, and local on my Macs. Many of the ones that are local on my Macs go back to when I was still using POP to deal with mail, and for some of my accounts (I have 33 eMail accounts between various identities of me at various providers, and quite a few for several non-profit societies I’m involved in) they are still on POP accounts and I only access some of them from one computer
The advantage of rules on the server is that they process before you’ve downloaded the mail, and so their effect is shown no matter what device you read your mail from - as long as you’re dealing with all your mail as IMAP.
Roger
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The rules at iCloud.com cannot be as complex as those in Mail. Also, they are limited to your iCloud email address. Mail’s rules can act on any email accounts you have set up there.
Apart from that, the main limitation of Mail’s rules is that Mail has to be running on an awake Mac for them to run. Server-based rules always run as long as servers are always on, which we assume to be continuous.
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On Aug 24, 2023, at 08:49, Bob Gerard via groups.io <rowerbob@...> wrote:
? Since we are on the subject of Mail Rules, would anyone care to comment on the advice - which I have seen offered several times - that your best bet for constructing rules in Apple’s Mail.app is to log into Mail at iCloud.com and create the rules there instead of using the Mail > Settings > Rules???
Bob ------ <Room:Smartest.jpg>
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Another benefit of local rules in Mail is to change the appearance of messages and/or your notification of their arrival. I use rules to change the background color of messages depending on their associated account as a way of visually differentiating messages that are all aggregated in one mailbox.
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On Aug 24, 2023, at 09:06, Ben Rosenthal <ben@...> wrote:
? The rules at iCloud.com cannot be as complex as those in Mail. Also, they are limited to your iCloud email address. Mail’s rules can act on any email accounts you have set up there.
Apart from that, the main limitation of Mail’s rules is that Mail has to be running on an awake Mac for them to run. Server-based rules always run as long as servers are always on, which we assume to be continuous. On Aug 24, 2023, at 08:49, Bob Gerard via groups.io <rowerbob@...> wrote:
? Since we are on the subject of Mail Rules, would anyone care to comment on the advice - which I have seen offered several times - that your best bet for constructing rules in Apple’s Mail.app is to log into Mail at iCloud.com and create the rules there instead of using the Mail > Settings > Rules???
Bob ------ <Room:Smartest.jpg>
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Don’t feel bad, people without dyslexia sometimes can’t see things.?
Proof, the saying, if it were a snake, it would have bit me. ??
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On Aug 24, 2023, at 08:19, John Hay via groups.io <OceanCity@...> wrote:
? On Aug 24, 2023, at 11:10 AM, Ben Rosenthal <ben@...> wrote: Wasn’t that exactly where you expected to find the file in the first place?
Yes! To be honest.? I'm dyslexic. Story of my life. It must have been there right in front of me the whole time. Oh well. I persist forward, albeit at a slower pace than most. All the best, John?
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On Aug 24, 2023, at 2:26 PM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote: Don’t feel bad, people without dyslexia sometimes can’t see things.?
Proof, the saying, if it were a snake, it would have bit me. ?? Brent . . . sometimes I see dead people! ?? Cheers, John
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There is no one best way.?
Rules established in the two location have different capabilities and different results.?
Rules on iCloud are:? - limited in what it can do, -- the results are available to all of your devices.?
Rules in the client of one device are:? - may not be possible on devices other than Apple computers, - have more options to what they can do,? - the results may only be available on the device with that Rule.?
For example, I am writing this on an iPhone. I cannot write Rules to this device. I have Rules written on and for my MBP. If I move an email to a mailbox _on_ the MBP, it is not available to my other devices or my iCloud account. If it moves it to a mailbox that is also my iCloud account, then it is available to all.?
So, in effect, if I move an email to Trash, or delete it, those are “mailboxes” also on iCloud, the my other devices and iCloud will show the same results.?
Why do I make the distinction of moving to a mailbox only on my MBP. I keep a smaller number of interesting emails from Apple support groups in those mailboxes.?
So, pick the method that gives you the best results to suit your needs.
In general, yes Rules on your iCloud account are better, because they have fewer options, so you write fewer Rules, and it applies to all devices, and your account. BUT it is not the “be all, end all”, only way to go.? Brent On my iPhone Xr
- There is more than one way to skin a cat on a computer.
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On Aug 24, 2023, at 08:49, Bob Gerard via groups.io <rowerbob@...> wrote:
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On Aug 24, 2023, at 09:01, Roger Moffat via groups.io <rogerkiwi@...> wrote:
I have 33 eMail accounts between various identities of me at various providers “Who is that masked man?” Did you hear the announcer for the Lone Ranger, too?
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Good point, Ben.? Rules on iCloud only work on email to Apple email addresses.?
I hadn’t thought of that one. I had started writing Rules for a POP account, like Roger, before iCloud
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On Aug 24, 2023, at 09:06, Ben Rosenthal <ben@...> wrote:
? The rules at iCloud.com cannot be as complex as those in Mail. Also, they are limited to your iCloud email address. Mail’s rules can act on any email accounts you have set up there.
Apart from that, the main limitation of Mail’s rules is that Mail has to be running on an awake Mac for them to run. Server-based rules always run as long as servers are always on, which we assume to be continuous. On Aug 24, 2023, at 08:49, Bob Gerard via groups.io <rowerbob@...> wrote:
? Since we are on the subject of Mail Rules, would anyone care to comment on the advice - which I have seen offered several times - that your best bet for constructing rules in Apple’s Mail.app is to log into Mail at iCloud.com and create the rules there instead of using the Mail > Settings > Rules???
Bob ------ <Room:Smartest.jpg>
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Ben Rosenthal
Bob Gerard
Brent