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Re: Another senior with problems.
On Jul 21, 2023, at 1:23 PM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
Al, are you implying that OS X and later macOS are moving away from their Unix origins, No one is implying this. and so those daily, weekly, monthly routines are less relevant? What some folks refer to as Unix ¡°maintenance scripts¡±, aren¡¯t now, and never were, routines that ¡°repaired" things. So it¡¯s a bit of misnomer. The ¡°maintenance¡± performed was doing things like deleting old log files. You can neglect to do this for a long time. However, if you wait too long old log files and system messages can build up and start to take up a significant amount of hard drive space. So the maintenance scripts need to run occasionally, but they aren¡¯t of any big importance. __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Re: Another senior with problems.
On Jul 19, 2023, at 7:32 AM, Bob Gerard <rowerbob@...> wrote:
Do your requirements that he have an external clone in order to follow those instructions still apply? I recommend that EVERY user have an external clone. Having an external clone means that if you run any troubleshooting procedures, software updates, etc., that you won¡¯t end up SOL if things go badly south. However, in the specific instance that you are asking about, having an external bootable drive is an integral and necessary component to execute the procedure outlined. Note that replacing your entire OS IS NOT a Macintosh troubleshooting procedure. When your Mac is having problems, it is very rare that the entire OS needs to be replaced. Also, to correct something that you posted earlier, a Kernel Panic is usually NOT a sign that you have a software problem. It can be, and you might suspect a software problem if Kernel Panics start right after installing or updating your software, but in the vast majority of instances, Kernel Panics are caused by a hardware problem. (At least in my experience.)
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Re: Another senior with problems.
On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:52 AM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
Wouldn¡¯t you know it when he tried to open the .dmg file, he reported:
Got Rember.dmg but couldn¡¯t open it ¡ª Apple could not verify dmg was free of malware. What to do? This is simply Apple¡¯s security measure telling you to be careful where you get your software from. This alert does not mean that the application is dangerous or that it won¡¯t run on your Macintosh. Software that you get directly from a legitimate developer is just about always perfectly safe. You can open the application by right-clicking (or Control-clicking) on the application¡¯s icon, and then choosing Open; you will still get a warning dialog, but you can now choose to Open the application anyway, even if it comes from an unidentified developer. From this point on you can launch the application normally and there will be no warning dialog box. However, this doesn't work if the application is located anywhere but in the Applications folder. See: __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Re: Backing up iCloud, iCloud recovery and document versions
On Jul 22, 2023, at 9:38 PM, Ben Rosenthal < ben@...> wrote:
The primary purpose of iCloud is keep data in sync among devices.?
<big byte>
Superb explanation, Ben. ?I have cut and pasted it to a TextEdit document and saved it for use when the seniors I help ask me to explain iCloud/iCloud drive.
Bob
¡ª¡ª¡ª
¡° A man sees in the?world what he?carries in his heart.¡±
¡ª Goethe,?Faust
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Re: Backing up iCloud, iCloud recovery and document versions
The primary purpose of iCloud is keep data in sync among devices. That¡¯s why Apple designed iCloud to operate with your name Apple apps, like Contacts, Calendars, Mail, and Photos. People don¡¯t necessarily have Internet connections that are fast enough for them to open there documents and data directly from a remote server (¡°the cloud¡±) so these items get downloaded and stored locally before opening.
The main ways to access iCloud Drive on your Mac are via the Finder sidebar (if you have iCloud Drive listed there) or via iCloud Drive in the Finder¡¯s Go menu (keyboard shortcut Shift+Command+I).
Although it¡¯s a little confusing that Apple removed iCloud Drive from the Home folder, things you store in iCloud Drive are by default stored locally on your Mac. That¡¯s why dragging an item between your internal drive and iCloud Drive is treated as a move instead of a copy (unless you hold Option).
For what it¡¯s worth, the Desktop and Documents folders are actually still in Home, but when syncing Desktop & Documents Folders is enabled in iCloud Drive options, macOS hides them in the Home folder. If you go to your Home folder and press Shift+Command+Period to toggle hidden files, you¡¯ll see Desktop and Documents appear.
Mirroring means that you have the same set of files and folders in two locations and some process syncs the locations, whether passively or on-demand.
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There¡¯s that damned ¡°mirrored¡± again. ?What does it really mean?
Since, AFAIK, the only way to put things on iCloud drive, short of going to , is to access it in your Finder sidebar.
Drag and drop a file from your Home folder to iCloud Drive (which is a Move and not a Copy) - is that what is meant by mirrored?
If so, great, all files and folder moved into our iCloud drive that way then get backed up in our Time Machine backups.
Right?
But, if the above is correct, it¡¯s passing strange that when I do that - d&d a folder from my Home folder to my iCloud Drive folder, it disappears from my Home folder: ?a Move.
If I option - d&d it to my iCloud folder, it¡¯s a Copy, but I assume that any changes made to that folder, be it in on iCloud Drive or in my Home folder will not be reflected.
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Re: Backing up iCloud, iCloud recovery and document versions
On Jul 22, 2023, at 17:56, Ben Rosenthal <ben@...> wrote:
Sounds perfectly normal. When you put something in iCloud Drive, you are putting it in a folder on your internal drive and macOS is copying it to Apple¡¯s iCloud server. This file is therefore stored locally on your Mac and available for backup.
Thanks, Ben. ?
But, if the above is correct, it¡¯s passing strange that when I do that - d&d a folder from my Home folder to my iCloud Drive folder, it disappears from my Home folder: ?a Move.
If I option - d&d it to my iCloud folder, it¡¯s a Copy, but I assume that any changes made to that folder, be it in on iCloud Drive or in my Home folder will not be reflected.
If you right-click a file in iCloud Drive and choose Remove Download, the file will be removed from your Mac but remain in iCloud. This file is not available for backup.
Bob
¡ª¡ª¡ª
¡°They say the Lord?answers all our?prayers, it¡¯s just that?sometimes he?answers no.¡±
- Amor Towles
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Re: Backing up iCloud, iCloud recovery and document versions
On Jul 22, 2023, at 16:56, Steve Bee <buytcfhe@...> wrote:
If you put a file directly into an iCloud Drive folder that is being mirrored from your Mac,
Thanks, Steve! There¡¯s that damned ¡°mirrored¡± again. ?What does it really mean?
Since, AFAIK, the only way to put things on iCloud drive, short of going to , is to access it in your Finder sidebar.
Drag and drop a file from your Home folder to iCloud Drive (which is a Move and not a Copy) - is that what is meant by mirrored?
If so, great, all files and folder moved into our iCloud drive that way then get backed up in our Time Machine backups.
Right?
Bob
¡ª¡ª¡ª
¡°They say the Lord?answers all our?prayers, it¡¯s just that?sometimes he?answers no.¡±
- Amor Towles
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Re: Backing up iCloud, iCloud recovery and document versions
Sounds perfectly normal. When you put something in iCloud Drive, you are putting it in a folder on your internal drive and macOS is copying it to Apple¡¯s iCloud server. This file is therefore stored locally on your Mac and available for backup.
If you right-click a file in iCloud Drive and choose Remove Download, the file will be removed from your Mac but remain in iCloud. This file is not available for backup.
Note the ELC article¡¯s mention of your Home Library not being excluded from TM. That¡¯s because everything in iCloud Drive that¡¯s mirrored on your Mac is stored in a folder in your Library.
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On Jul 21, 2023, at 13:41, Bob Gerard <rowerbob@...> wrote:
? An article by this title was published yesterday on .
Backing up iCloud, iCloud recovery and document versions.
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Here are the first two paragraphs:
Time Machine
Unless you add iCloud Drive to the list of excluded items in Time Machine, its contents will be backed up by Time Machine so long as there are local copies of those files and folders, and your backup includes the Library in your Home folder. Any items that have been evicted and replaced locally by stub files can¡¯t be backed up without downloading them first. The reason for this is that files whose data only exists in iCloud Drive can¡¯t be copied to local backup storage immediately; rather than defer their copying until they can be downloaded, Time Machine simply ignores all evicted items.
This is significant if you have enabled Optimise Mac Storage, the more so if you have put your Desktop & Documents Folders into iCloud Drive, when many older items may be automatically evicted by macOS, even if your Data volume has plenty of free space. Although items shouldn¡¯t have changed while they¡¯ve been evicted, their last local occurrence may be in a backup made months ago. If you remove old backups, this could leave you without a copy of an evicted item in local storage.
The phrase that causes some confusion for me is this one: ?so long as there are local copies of those files and folders, and your backup includes the Library in your Home folder.
?I interpret that to mean that in order for TM to back up a file which exists on your iCloud , a copy of that file must be on your MacintoshHD.
But, my interpretation must be wrong because I just saved the eclecticlightcompany article as a .pdf and saved it to my iCloud Drive and NOT to my MacintoshHD.
Nonetheless, when I open a Finder window and browse TM, there is the eclecticlightcompany article. ?
Anyone want to take a shot at this one???
Bob
¡ª¡ª
¡°He who asks is a?fool for five minutes,?
?He who does not?ask remains a fool?forever.¡±
Chinese?proverb
Re: Backing up iCloud, iCloud recovery and document versions
On Fri, Jul 21, 2023 at 01:41 PM, Bob Gerard wrote:
?I interpret that to mean that in order for TM to back up a file which exists on your iCloud , a copy of that file must be on your MacintoshHD.
?
But, my interpretation must be wrong because I just saved the eclecticlightcompany article as a .pdf and saved it to my iCloud Drive and NOT to my MacintoshHD.
?
Nonetheless, when I open a Finder window and browse TM, there is the eclecticlightcompany article. ?
?
Anyone want to take a shot at this one???
?
I have not stored my files on iCloud Drive but I will make a guess. If you put a file directly into an iCloud Drive folder that is being mirrored from your Mac, there is probably an alias made on your Mac for that file. When you want to open it on your computer it will be downloaded from iCloud to your computer. This is the basic functionality of such systems. Kind of the purpose of the whole thing. I am sure that you can find articles explaining this on Apple's support Web pages.
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Re: Another senior with problems.
On Jul 21, 2023, at 21:07, Al Varnell via groups.io <alvarnell@...> wrote:
I just had an example two days ago where a restart solved an issue of Spotlight not working after a macOS update, so yes, there are occasions when a restart is the best solution for an issue, just not every issue. Yes, it does not solve every issue. That is why I said sometimes. I try to solve issues by first trying the easiest, least costly, least possibly damaging action first. In the case of an update, sometimes it changes a setting or operation that has to be in place at boot time, but often people don¡¯t think of or realize that. Without a restart, it is not in place.
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Re: Another senior with problems.
are you implying that OS X and later macOS are moving away from their Unix origins
Not sure what I said that led you to that conclusion. That probably needs a separate conversation which needs to address how macOS in the Apple Silicon era relies on it's Unix roots. Most of those maintenance scripts were never relevant to normal macOS users and just left over from NeXT OS. Over the years there have been a few of those Unix routines replaced by better, more efficient coding which resulted in some scripts being completely removed or replaced by other functions. It's been quite obvious over the last few years that at least the macOS GUI is moving closer to iOS with each new release. I just had an example two days ago where a restart solved an issue of Spotlight not working after a macOS update, so yes, there are occasions when a restart is the best solution for an issue, just not every issue.
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Backing up iCloud, iCloud recovery and document versions
An article by this title was published yesterday on .
Backing up iCloud, iCloud recovery and document versions. |
Here are the first two paragraphs:
Time Machine
Unless you add iCloud Drive to the list of excluded items in Time Machine, its contents will be backed up by Time Machine so long as there are local copies of those files and folders, and your backup includes the Library in your Home folder. Any items that have been evicted and replaced locally by stub files can¡¯t be backed up without downloading them first. The reason for this is that files whose data only exists in iCloud Drive can¡¯t be copied to local backup storage immediately; rather than defer their copying until they can be downloaded, Time Machine simply ignores all evicted items.
This is significant if you have enabled Optimise Mac Storage, the more so if you have put your Desktop & Documents Folders into iCloud Drive, when many older items may be automatically evicted by macOS, even if your Data volume has plenty of free space. Although items shouldn¡¯t have changed while they¡¯ve been evicted, their last local occurrence may be in a backup made months ago. If you remove old backups, this could leave you without a copy of an evicted item in local storage.
The phrase that causes some confusion for me is this one: ?so long as there are local copies of those files and folders, and your backup includes the Library in your Home folder.
?I interpret that to mean that in order for TM to back up a file which exists on your iCloud , a copy of that file must be on your MacintoshHD.
But, my interpretation must be wrong because I just saved the eclecticlightcompany article as a .pdf and saved it to my iCloud Drive and NOT to my MacintoshHD.
Nonetheless, when I open a Finder window and browse TM, there is the eclecticlightcompany article. ?
Anyone want to take a shot at this one???
Bob
¡ª¡ª
¡°He who asks is a?fool for five minutes,?
?He who does not?ask remains a fool?forever.¡±
Chinese?proverb
Re: Another senior with problems.
When in doubt, shut down, then start is the better choice. But restart seems to, currently, work as well.
Brent
On my iPhone Xr
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On Jul 21, 2023, at 09:33, maclists <maclists@...> wrote:
?TThank you for posting the detail. They certainly don't seem to do much. But it is always good to know what runs without consciously starting it myself.
My own iMac doesn't seem to have "slowdowns" / "spinning beachball" very often and when it does, power cycling fixes them. I tend to use "shutdown" rather than "restart".
AG
Friday, July 21, 2023, 3:24:28 PM, Al Varnell via groups.io alvarnell@... wrote:
I seriously doubt that any of those scripts could result in a noticeable slow-down as they don't do much and there aren't very many that will apply to most users. They should occur at the same time each of them is implemented, as long as your computer is booted. Certain sleep conditions probably would delay implementation until wake-up.
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Re: Another senior with problems.
Al, are you implying that OS X and later macOS are moving away from their Unix origins, and so those daily, weekly, monthly routines are less relevant??
I am not a machine language guy, so my question is for general knowledge, only.?
It brings up, at least in my mind, several questions. Are the various iOS, based on Unix at all? Does it appear that Apple is moving macOS closer to iOS?
Over the years there have been various ¡°voo doo¡± beliefs and fixes. Do you, Al, feel a restart is a valid fix for some Mac issues?
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On Jul 21, 2023, at 06:24, Al Varnell via groups.io <alvarnell@...> wrote:
?I seriously doubt that any of those scripts could result in a noticeable slow-down as they don't do much and there aren't very many that will apply to most users. They should occur at the same time each of them is implemented, as long as your computer is booted. Certain sleep conditions probably would delay implementation until wake-up.
Periodic Maintenance Scripts
?
(Originally posted for Leopard, this list has been updated for Mojave.)
?
Here is what the daily scripts do:?
?
110.clean-tmps Delete temporary files in /tmp that have not been accessed for at least 3 days. The most significant thing the daily scripts do (in Leopard) is delete temporary files (in /tmp) that have not been accessed in at least 3 days. But /tmp is cleared as part of the startup process, so there will never be anything to delete on a system that is restarted frequently. The periodic scripts are mostly for "long-lived" systems, i.e., systems that have been up continuously for weeks or months at a stretch.
?
130.clean-msgs Delete old system announcements. This is relevant only for multi-user Unix systems.
?
140.clean-rwho Delete stale rwho messages older than 7 days. This has to do with Unix networks, and is irrelevant for almost everyone.
?
400.status-disks Writes some disk status information in the daily.out log.?
Disk status:
Filesystem ? ? Size ? Used? Avail Capacity ? iused ? ? ifree %iused? Mounted on
?
420.status-network Writes some system status information in the daily.out log.
Network interface status:
Name? Mtu ? Network ? ? ? Address? ? ? ? ? ? Ipkts Ierrs? ? Opkts Oerrs? Coll
?
430.staus-rwho Writes a system status message (mainly system uptime) in the daily.out log. This is just reporting, not maintenance.
Local system status:
e.g. 7:40? up 1 day, 11:48, 5 users, load averages: 1.30 1.16 1.14
?
999.local Normally not used.
?
That's it, unless you or your system administrator have defined some local tasks. Unless you are running a Unix cluster or regularly using your Mac as a fax machine -- and shutting the machine down every night, without exception -- there is nothing urgent in the daily scripts.
?
The weekly scripts update one database, of interest only to Unix users. If you are not a Unix user there is never any reason to run weekly.
?
310.locate The locate database is used by the locate command. If you are a regular user of locate, you should evaluate whether the index as built by weekly is complete enough for your purposes.
?
320.whatis The whatis database is an index of Unix man pages. It only needs to be rebuilt if you have installed new Unix documentation. In that case, the logical time to rebuild whatis is as part of the installation process, rather than waiting for the next weekly run. Again, if you are not a Unix user, you do not need to rebuild this database at all.
?
999.local Normally not used.
?
The monthly scripts may do two things.
?
199.rotate-fax Recycle fax logs. If you do not use your Mac as a fax machine, it is never necessary to run monthly.
?
200.accounting Write some accounting information in the monthly.out log.
Doing login accounting:
total? ? ? 972.73
user? ? ? 972.65
root ? ? ? ? 0.08
?
999.local Normally not used.
?
Somewhere along the line someone applied the term "maintenance" to the periodic scripts, leading many to believe that they perform some crucial tasks. In fact, it is only minor housekeeping. And they really do run automatically if needed, and the housekeeping is more minor than ever.
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Re: Another senior with problems.
TThank you for posting the detail. They certainly don't seem to do much. But it is always good to know what runs without consciously starting it myself.
My own iMac doesn't seem to have "slowdowns" / "spinning beachball" very often and when it does, power cycling fixes them. I tend to use "shutdown" rather than "restart".
AG
Friday, July 21, 2023, 3:24:28 PM, Al Varnell via groups.io alvarnell@... wrote:
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I seriously doubt that any of those scripts could result in a noticeable slow-down as they don't do much and there aren't very many that will apply to most users. They should occur at the same time each of them is implemented, as long as your computer is booted. Certain sleep conditions probably would delay implementation until wake-up.
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Re: Another senior with problems.
I seriously doubt that any of those scripts could result in a noticeable slow-down as they don't do much and there aren't very many that will apply to most users. They should occur at the same time each of them is implemented, as long as your computer is booted. Certain sleep conditions probably would delay implementation until wake-up.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Periodic Maintenance Scripts
?
(Originally posted for Leopard, this list has been updated for Mojave.)
?
Here is what the daily scripts do:?
?
110.clean-tmps Delete temporary files in /tmp that have not been accessed for at least 3 days. The most significant thing the daily scripts do (in Leopard) is delete temporary files (in /tmp) that have not been accessed in at least 3 days. But /tmp is cleared as part of the startup process, so there will never be anything to delete on a system that is restarted frequently. The periodic scripts are mostly for "long-lived" systems, i.e., systems that have been up continuously for weeks or months at a stretch.
?
130.clean-msgs Delete old system announcements. This is relevant only for multi-user Unix systems.
?
140.clean-rwho Delete stale rwho messages older than 7 days. This has to do with Unix networks, and is irrelevant for almost everyone.
?
400.status-disks Writes some disk status information in the daily.out log.?
Disk status:
Filesystem ? ? Size ? Used? Avail Capacity ? iused ? ? ifree %iused? Mounted on
?
420.status-network Writes some system status information in the daily.out log.
Network interface status:
Name? Mtu ? Network ? ? ? Address? ? ? ? ? ? Ipkts Ierrs? ? Opkts Oerrs? Coll
?
430.staus-rwho Writes a system status message (mainly system uptime) in the daily.out log. This is just reporting, not maintenance.
Local system status:
e.g. 7:40? up 1 day, 11:48, 5 users, load averages: 1.30 1.16 1.14
?
999.local Normally not used.
?
That's it, unless you or your system administrator have defined some local tasks. Unless you are running a Unix cluster or regularly using your Mac as a fax machine -- and shutting the machine down every night, without exception -- there is nothing urgent in the daily scripts.
?
The weekly scripts update one database, of interest only to Unix users. If you are not a Unix user there is never any reason to run weekly.
?
310.locate The locate database is used by the locate command. If you are a regular user of locate, you should evaluate whether the index as built by weekly is complete enough for your purposes.
?
320.whatis The whatis database is an index of Unix man pages. It only needs to be rebuilt if you have installed new Unix documentation. In that case, the logical time to rebuild whatis is as part of the installation process, rather than waiting for the next weekly run. Again, if you are not a Unix user, you do not need to rebuild this database at all.
?
999.local Normally not used.
?
The monthly scripts may do two things.
?
199.rotate-fax Recycle fax logs. If you do not use your Mac as a fax machine, it is never necessary to run monthly.
?
200.accounting Write some accounting information in the monthly.out log.
Doing login accounting:
total? ? ? 972.73
user? ? ? 972.65
root ? ? ? ? 0.08
?
999.local Normally not used.
?
Somewhere along the line someone applied the term "maintenance" to the periodic scripts, leading many to believe that they perform some crucial tasks. In fact, it is only minor housekeeping. And they really do run automatically if needed, and the housekeeping is more minor than ever.
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Re: Another senior with problems.
My own iMac has Mojave. I would be interested in seeing what those scripts do. Perhaps the "random times" could explain possible intermittent "slowdowns"
AG
Friday, July 21, 2023, 8:29:31 AM, Al Varnell via groups.io alvarnell@... wrote:
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All versions of macOS have had scheduled maintenance scripts, which are holdovers from it's original Unix core, but there aren't as many now as there once were and they never have been very important. All are run at a random time either daily, weekly or monthly. I have a listing of what they are in Mojave if that's of interest.
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Re: Another senior with problems.
I don't think there is anything "normal" about Windows computers.
I have to be careful what I write on what is basically an Apple mailing list, but one thhing I notice between all three of MacOS, Windows and Linux is that there is some indication of what is happening for Linux when shutting down/restarting with actual legible text (admittedly very quick) on the screen but not the other two. At least my Mac gets a progress bar when booting, but Windows is either nothing at all or just something "spinning".
AG
Friday, July 21, 2023, 12:48:18 AM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io otto.nikolaus@... wrote:
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I¡¯m surprised that your Win machines are so slow to shut down/restart. Is that normal?
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Re: Another senior with problems.
All versions of macOS have had scheduled maintenance scripts, which are holdovers from it's original Unix core, but there aren't as many now as there once were and they never have been very important. All are run at a random time either daily, weekly or monthly. I have a listing of what they are in Mojave if that's of interest.
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Re: Another senior with problems.
I don¡¯t think restarts are as important as they once were for frequent maintenance. Didn¡¯t the early versions of OS X incorporate scheduled maintenance routines into the OS. A start-up, clears caches and logs, runs built-in start-up diagnostic routines. The scheduled (chron?) maintenance, I believe, is triggered by factors other than start-up.
That said, a restart is helpful on a Mac, the same as on an ¡°iOS¡± Device. It should be one of the first steps in troubleshooting.
Brent
On my iPhone Xr
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On Jul 20, 2023, at 15:18, maclists <maclists@...> wrote:
?But what about scheduled tasks such as backups or other things that take a long time to run? I find it best to let those happen while I am sleeping or otherwise away from the computer for several hours.
As regards "sleep", my own computers are either switched on (but I let the display switch off after ten minutes of no activity on keyboard or mouse) or they are shut down completely and mains plug removed. Windows computers get rebooted every time something changes, but that doesn't happen for MacOS and Linux although I do reboot the latter two approx. once a fortnight. I dread the Windows reboots (and the shutdowns) as they seem to take for ever. I coud reboot my Mac at least twice to three times (and Linux even more times) in the time it takes for a Windows PC to reboot.
AG
Thursday, July 20, 2023, 11:03:20 PM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io otto.nikolaus@... wrote:
I know we don¡¯t need to, but we shut down our Apple notebooks every night. It just seems wrong to leave them on overnight. I know that they use very little energy when in sleep mode, but it¡¯s not nothing.
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Bob Gerard
Ben Rosenthal
Brent
Al Varnell