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It's becoming increasingly clear that the ACA is NOT the answer to this nations Health Care System. It is so poorly structured, with so many loopholes, that it's intent will Never be achieved. But, then, when you consider that most of it was probably written by the Health Care Lobbyists on K Street, it becomes more understandable.

The plan being proposed for the State of Vermont may be the closest thing to a sensible solution for the nation. A SP-UHC system has been in place in many nations for decades, and it seems to work quite well. Hopefully, when the people of this nation get a belly full of our corrupted For Profit system, they will demand something similar.




-- In ibmpensionissues@..., "zimowski@" <zimowski@> wrote:

I think it's becoming increasingly clear that ACA is NOT the answer. Obama == BS

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., pvsutera <no_reply@> wrote:

For those of us with an FHA healthcare following our IBM career, there is no affordable healthcare following the FHA. Capping the out of pocket for premiums at a reasonable $4K a year beats the current mess: Some couples in their 50s are currently paying $14K+ a year for healthcare. That's not EVEN dog food. But I'm glad you like it so much.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., "zimowski@" <zimowski@> wrote:

Those who re-elected Obama now need to eat his dog food.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., spitzerisnoweiner <no_reply@> wrote:

Soooo glad I never joined a union...

This is a bad re-distribution of wealth for sure.

I think it's becoming increasingly clear that ACA is NOT the answer. Obama == BS

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., pvsutera <no_reply@> wrote:

For those of us with an FHA healthcare following our IBM career, there is no affordable healthcare following the FHA. Capping the out of pocket for premiums at a reasonable $4K a year beats the current mess: Some couples in their 50s are currently paying $14K+ a year for healthcare. That's not EVEN dog food. But I'm glad you like it so much.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., "zimowski@" <zimowski@> wrote:

Those who re-elected Obama now need to eat his dog food.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., spitzerisnoweiner <no_reply@> wrote:

Soooo glad I never joined a union...

This is a bad re-distribution of wealth for sure.

For those of us with an FHA healthcare following our IBM career, there is no affordable healthcare following the FHA. Capping the out of pocket for premiums at a reasonable $4K a year beats the current mess: Some couples in their 50s are currently paying $14K+ a year for healthcare. That's not EVEN dog food. But I'm glad you like it so much.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., "zimowski@" <zimowski@> wrote:

Those who re-elected Obama now need to eat his dog food.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., spitzerisnoweiner <no_reply@> wrote:

Soooo glad I never joined a union...

This is a bad re-distribution of wealth for sure.

Or, instead of eating dog, this IBM retiree grew fruit:



ref:

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., "zimowski@" <zimowski@> wrote:

Those who re-elected Obama now need to eat his dog food.

Those who re-elected Obama now need to eat his dog food.

Those who re-elected Obama now need to eat his dog food.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., spitzerisnoweiner <no_reply@> wrote:

Soooo glad I never joined a union...

This is a bad re-distribution of wealth for sure.

Soooo glad I never joined a union...

This is a bad re-distribution of wealth for sure.

Need to find out who your friends are? Ask Tracy Lawrence:



You find out who your friends are
Somebody's gonna drop everything
Run out and crank up their car
Hit the gas, get there fast

Never stop to think, 'What's in it for me?'
Or 'It's way too far'
They just show on up with their big ol' heart
You find out who your friends are

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., "Sam Cay" <ceome60@> wrote:

It is all sarcasm as anyone who disagrees with some of the posters are not "our" (their) friends. Just part of the negativism of bitter past employee's. You pick your friends and you remember your IBM life.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., hmc151 <no_reply@> wrote:

I have read this statement off and on for a long time on IBM boards: "not our friends" and I am surprised that no one has spoken up about it.

What gives anyone the right to declare who our friends are?

Someone that thinks they have the right to tell me who my friends are and who is not my friend is NOT MY friend.

It is all sarcasm as anyone who disagrees with some of the posters are not "our" (their) friends. Just part of the negativism of bitter past employee's. You pick your friends and you remember your IBM life.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., hmc151 <no_reply@> wrote:

I have read this statement off and on for a long time on IBM boards: "not our friends" and I am surprised that no one has spoken up about it.

What gives anyone the right to declare who our friends are?

Someone that thinks they have the right to tell me who my friends are and who is not my friend is NOT MY friend.

I have read this statement off and on for a long time on IBM boards: "not our friends" and I am surprised that no one has spoken up about it.

What gives anyone the right to declare who our friends are?

Someone that thinks they have the right to tell me who my friends are and who is not my friend is NOT MY friend.

You are correct regarding testing that the Doctors tell you should be done.? I discussed this with my Doctor and he advised me that it is at times it is being triggered by malpractice suits.? When a court decision holds the doctor responsible for malpractice because he failed to perform a test, then this establishes the requirement in NYS to perform the test.? You can tell the doctor you do not want the test to be done and sign a release so the lack of the test cannot be used in a malpractice suit.However, there are doctors who recommend tests in order to increase their billing.? One must always question the reason for the test and determine whether or not you want to take the chanceAn example is if you have blood in your urine.? They do a number of tests to determine whether you have prostrate cancer.? You could reject the tests and live with the risk. Since this is a common problem, the doctors require a visit every six months to monitor the problem as well as your PSA and continually do a number of recommend tests. This is the reason deaths from prostrate cancer are being reduced every year. In certain countries such as England they limit the number of tests that are paid for by their Health Care System and this is why they have a much higher rate of people dying from cancer.? The US government want to limit women's breast cancer examinations based on the age of a woman to save money and there was an outcry. The community from both women and doctors indicated that the number of woman dying from breast cancer would increase.? The US government back down.? I also agree with you regarding the forms that the government and insurance companies require merely increase our health care cost.? My Dentist complains about the IBM Dental Program.? He follows the rules and gets per-approval.? When he submits his claim they start asking him for more information and even after three months of having done a 'cap' has not received payment.? How would you like to wait three months or longer to get your pay check and yet you have to pay your employees.Based on my dentist experience, I now understand why they want up front payment on a credit card and give you the insurance reimbursement when they receive it.,As to Canada, it depends on where you lived and how long you have to wait to be assigned a personal care physician. In some areas this is a major problem while in others it is not. Do deal with assigning a personal care health professional, the Obama Health Care lets a registered nurse perform this duty of determining what tests you need to take or seeing a doctor. There are not enough doctors.? Even now when you go to a doctors office, you are dealing with a nurse and the doctor comes to see you for a few minutes to review the test and does a very quick examination of the issue.Regards from a person who really would like to see improvements in our Healthcare System----- Original Message -----From: pvsutera Date: Sunday, June 23, 2013 8:03 amSubject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Future Health AccountTo: ibmpensionissues@...> I don't think that putting people 23,24,25 onto parent's > insurance raised premiums at a rate much faster than they were > already, every year, going up. Having friends paying over $10K > a year and they're under age 60.... highlights one of the > biggest problems of our current system. But most of the > Affordable Health Care act has not been implemented. I know > that the US system does an awful lot of testing. When I hurt my > foot, I was told I needed an MRI and an ultrasound. The > ultrasound was to rule out something quite rare, a blood clot in > the foot. An ice pack that evening reduced the pain about 50%. > I opted out of both tests and was jogging again in 10 days. > Some 25% of Medicare bills are end-of-life expenses. It is > American's death-denial that causes us to continue to perform > procedures on people with only months or even weeks of life > remaining. Being paid "by the procedure" is part of the > problem. The Geisinger system seeks to manage health by > rewarding good outcomes only. When I was in Italy, the doctor > filled out the paperwork and my friend was treated same day, no > line. Italy spends less money per-capita than the US. My doctor > has one nurse and THREE Admins to handle all the different kinds > of billing and paperwork. For ALL we spend on healthcare our > longevity outcomes are no better than Albania or Cuba. My point > about trading stocks is the lower rate of taxation on profits > from investing. Sure it helps us when we cash in our 401Ks, but > it helps the wealthy pay much lower taxes than the working > class. My Canadian friends say "there are no lines", stop > spreading this myth about their universal healthcare. I waited > 5 weeks for cancer surgery here in the USA. Sure we all pay, but > in the USA, we pay the most per-capita, and those 3 Admins > working for one doctor surely must be a part of that. > > --- In ibmpensionissues@..., KenSP@ wrote:> >> > Ask yourself what caused the Euro Crisis.? Is it giving too > much social benefits and not being able to collect sufficient > tax revenue to pay for it.? When France raised its personal > income tax rate to 75%, it reduced the retirement age from 60 to > 58 so citizens could start to collect government social security > pension at 58. Are you telling me that there is no corruption in > our medicare and medicaid system?? I thought when President > Obama signed the bill he said we would save a 1/2 billion > dollars a year by eliminating fraud in the system. When the law > required children to be covered on parent's health insurance > until the age 26, what happen?? Insurance companies raise > premiums on everyone to cover this additional risk. Is this fair > to those who are unmarried or do not have children?Also, please > remember what you pay for you get.? PLEASE when going aboard > visit a hospital and see if you want to be treated in the > hospital where there is country's safety net. From four to ten > patients are in a room. It sounds great but there are visible > differences. It is great for those coming from a country that > had no medical treatments but I think you would be > disappointed.? Don't assume services are the same. Don't trust > statistics.The problem we have in New York City and Westchester > is finding Doctors who will accept any insurance.? It does not > matter if you have insurance or not, the Doctor requires an > upfront payment on your credit card and gives you whatever he > collects from the insurance company.? There are not enough > doctors to treat everyone. We have increased the number of > people under health insurance but have not increased the number > of doctors. With? the government as well as insurance companies > keep reducing payments to doctors, more and more doctors are > requiring the upfront payment before treatment. So even if you > have a single payer insurance, it does not mean a doctor will > accept your insurance.Two hospitals in my area closed since most > of their patients were under Medicare or Medicaid Insurance and > they could not cover their expenses and had to declare > bankruptcy. So please remember some one has to pay - either you > raise premiums, use tax revenue, reduce coverage or pay the > doctors and hospitals less. What you pay for is what you get and > not all services are equal. Also just because you have insurance > does not mean, you will find someone, other than at a hospital, > to treat you.? My uncle who is on medicaid was told by his > doctor of 20 years he no longer treats medicare or medicaid > patients. It is a problem and the issues are complex. When my > daughter gave birth. the hospital accepted her company's > insurance but the doctors required the upfront payment and > reimbursed her on the money they collected from the insurance > company. You cannot force a doctor to do a service at a fixed > price, otherwise we have slavery.Finally as to taxes on stocks, > is it fair if you lose money in the stock market in a year like > $20,000, you can only deduct $3,000 on your income tax return > per year.? But if you make money the entire gain is immediately > taxed.? Regards from a person who hopes to see improvement in > healthcare but will only believe it when it happens. Obama-Care > is a start but there needs to be improvements and changes to > make it happen and acceptable to majority of the US----- > Original Message -----From: pvsutera Date: Saturday, June 22, > 2013 12:51 pmSubject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Future Health > AccountTo: ibmpensionissues@...> I think you have to > realize there is the Euro crisis and then > there is healthcare. > Greece has had a long-term problem with > tax-evasion and > corruption. We are 50th on the list of > longevity with our > most expensive system in the world. Right > next to Albania > (the poorest country in Europe), and Cuba, a 3rd > world > country. Most of the complaints about the cost of the > safety > net come from corporations who want even higher record > > profits. Shredding middle-class jobs and opting for austerity > > has worked so well! We should keep listening to and heeding > > everything on the corporate wishlist! As far as 48% paying no > > Federal income tax: They pay FICA, they pay Medicare, Sales > > tax, excise taxes, license fees, FCC fees, State taxes. And many > > of them are working 2 jobs. They often pay a higher percentage > > of their income as taxes than do the millionaires. But > flipping > stocks should be taxed lower than say, writing code > for IBM. > > --- In ibmpensionissues@..., KenSP@ > wrote:> >> > Yes you are right, I also believe that companies > are going to > start dropping Health Care.However, look at > Greece, France and > UK that have this programs.? Someone has to > pay.? Either like > Greece, one has to start cutting back on > benefits and coverage > and raise taxes on those who work.? > France has increased it > income tax rate to 75% and the rich > are moving to Switzerland > rather than supporting these social > programs. In the US, 48% of > people pay no federal income tax.? > I live in France for five > years and those who had government > coverage, like myself, also > bought and paid for high > supplement insurance so they could go > to private hospitals.? > If you go to France on vacation, visit a > French Hospital and > see if you would want to go there for > treatment. If you have > no choice you will. Most of the French I > worked with went to > the American Hospital since their medical > equipment was up to > date while the French Hospitals had older > and even out dated > equipment since the government was > controlling what they could > or could not buy.? UK system also > has it problem with death > rates from cancer.? Just look it up > and you will see it is far > greater than US since they do not > want to pay for the high > cost of cancer drugs. Having been in > the UK or France, you do > not have a problem in getting medical > services if you are > willing to pay cash but it you tell them you > have government > coverage, you get inline and may not be > satisfied.I do not > have the answers and believe most of my money > in the end will > be spent on medical treatment.? I don't think > relying on the > government or private insurance companies who > deny you > treatment or drug coverage is going to work.A concern > person > who is not hopeful that there will be a solution in my > > lifetime.----- Original Message -----From: don_m64015@: > > Friday, June 21, 2013 10:48 pmSubject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: > > Future Health AccountTo: ibmpensionissues@...> Just > > wait until the ACA (Obamacare) goes into full effect > > starting > next year. Employers are going to be bailing out of > > Health > Care Plans in droves. Individual premiums and co-> pays > are > going to start going ballistic, until they reach a > point > where > the vast majority of the public demands a SP-UHC > plan, > much > like other civilized nations have been using for > years. > The > simple fact that we pay twice as much for health > care...yet > > the Value of our plans places us barely in the > top 20 > > nations...should be telling us something. The Greed > and Waste > > in our present system will soon spell its doom. > > > --- In > ibmpensionissues@..., Just Puttin' > > wrote:> >> > > Almost daily, some one writes that changing a > Health Care > > benefit is illegal,,, I am amazed at the wide > spread > > misunderstanding that Health Care benefits carry the > same > > characteristics as a Pension Benefit.?? > > > > To my > knowledge > no business organization has Guaranteed Health > > Care to > employees.?? The federal government has changed > benefits > many > times.> > Health care is not and was not ever > guaranteed.???? > IBM, > Apple, Microsoft, HP, Google,,,, check > them out.> > > > > > > ??> > Dick> > Dance like there is no > tomorrow> > > > > > > >________________________________> > > > From: Koz60 > > >To: > ibmpensionissues@... > > > >Sent: Wednesday, June 19, > 2013 2:02 PM> > >Subject: > [ibmpensionissues] Re: Future Health > Account> > > > > >> > >> > > >?? > > >I was 39 when they switched > plans.. 18yrs of > service but only > 39 so I got the new plan. > Can't believe > this is legal. Wouldn't > this be age > discrimination? Met > company requirements to retire > but they > say not old enough > to collect the medical money? > Telling me I > have to wait > till I'm 55 makes sense but forfeit it > all has to > be against > the law... Some law.. Anyone know if > anyone ever > > challenged this in court? I would suspect IBM had > it's > > attorneys lock this down but curious. I would bet that if > > > this got in front of a jury they would side with the employee.. > > > But guessing that will never happen. > > >> > >--- In > > ibmpensionissues@..., pvsutera > wrote:> >>> > >> > > This depends on whether you are on the old pension plan, > 1st > > or 2nd choicers could retire with 30 years and get their FHA > > > when they turned 55. Now with Cash-balance folks, born after > > > June 1959, they need to be 55 and 15 years service to claim > > > their FHA money. I believe if they are 54 and 14 years > service, > > they might be able to get a bridge to FHA > eligibility, but > maybe > not since with 30 years they are > retirement eligible > already. > This is why it is called the > Future Hell Account. > > > >> > > >> --- In > ibmpensionissues@..., Bob Nelson > > wrote:> > >> > >> > >> > I retired with over 30 years but was > not 55 and did > not > lose my FHA account.> > >> >> > >>> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >

Unless the IT world has changed radically, since I was active in it, a 'programmer' was an entry level position, leading to become a Systems Analyst or Systems Designer, or an IT management position. ??Almost like a pension plan for a keypunch operator.
??

________________________________
From: qcclub <no_reply@...>
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 10:57 AM
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] The End of Software; The Fall of IBM



??
I wonder if any programmer outside of Federal/State employees is working at a job that has a pension for the future?

groundreport.com/the-end-of-software-the-fall-of-ibm/

(servers may be swamped!)

about the source:

---

From: qcclub
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 10:57 AM
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] The End of Software; The Fall of IBM

?

I wonder if any programmer outside of Federal/State employees is working at a job that has a pension for the future?

groundreport.com/the-end-of-software-the-fall-of-ibm/

(servers may be swamped!)

about the source: