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This is actually one of four boards I created on September 22, 2012, as a place to talk about issues with IBM related boards on Yahoo. The four issues boards in alphabetical order are:

Is there an implication that IBM's Pension fund is underfunded?

---

From: namremf
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 8:29 PM
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: AT&T will boost pension fund with $9.5 billion equity stake

?

Please read:
|307|77|82#

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., Just Puttin' wrote:
>
> Is there an implication that IBM's Pension fund is underfunded?
>

According to your referenced URL:
With $86.6 billion in plan assets, Armonk, N.Y.-based IBM Corp. had the second-largest pension program in 2011. Its plans were 89.3% funded last year, down slightly from 91.6% in 2010, according to the survey.


Hardly on the 'endangered??species' list,,, ;-)

??

________________________________
From: namremf <no_reply@...>
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 8:29 PM
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] Re: AT&T will boost pension fund with $9.5 billion equity stake


??
Please read:


--- In ibmpensionissues@..., Just Puttin' <JustPutt2@> wrote:

Is there an implication that IBM's Pension fund is underfunded?

I completely agree with your view of the moderators. Roughly 50% of my appends are censored by the moderators. I think the sole reason is that they simply disagree with the views that I express, even if the append does nothing more than politely complain about the selective censorship of the moderators.

In order to make this board more worthwhile, let me suggest that you repost each append that anyone posts to the ibmpension board and then not censor responses you don't agree with. Obviously, appends that use foul language or that direct personal attacks towards other participants should be dealt with, perhaps initially with a warning and then through some other means of your choosing (which I think you should make known in advance to all participants). My hope is that contributors to the ibmpension board will eventually all migrate to this board and put Kathi et. al. out of business. My personal opinion is that many of the moderators of ibmpension simply like having the power of censorship (i.e. having control over what they allow/disallow on their board) for personal reasons. Just a thought.....

zimowski,

I like your idea, however, I seem to recall that Yahoo has a rule against reposting messages from one board to another withoug permission from the author. Does anyone know for sure? I will do a little research to see if I can find the answer,

---

From: namremf
To: ibmpensionissues@...
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: [ibmpensionissues] backroom bailout meeting on Delphi pension plans

?

Democrats, please don't read: (it's about vote buying)



So glad IBM was not a union shop back in the day...!

For years, this boring website routinely rips-off postings from Yahoo message boards and posts them for all to see:



All the mentions of "throat" and "crammed" are near-hilarious!
I suspect her meds have worn off in White Plains! ;-)

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., flatiron_blues <no_reply@> wrote:

zimowski,

I like your idea, however, I seem to recall that Yahoo has a rule against reposting messages from one board to another withoug permission from the author. Does anyone know for sure? I will do a little research to see if I can find the answer,

Here is an interesting subject that was the source of some good discussion on the ibmpension board that was prematurely cut off by a moderator. I am posting the entire thread here and inviting responses to any or all of the messages.

#73901 From: chz_whiz
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:37 pm

Corporate America is finally ready to deal with a monkey on its back: massive pension obligations.

;

sion-risk-with-lump-sum-offers/

or



Important excerpt:

"We hope people think really carefully about the decision," said Nancy Hwa, a spokeswoman for Pension Rights Center, a consumer organization in Washington,

D.C. "It's very easy to be tempted by this large sum of money initially, and it's easy to spend it on something other than retirement."

#73902 From: willbefree25
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:49 pm

"It's very easy to be tempted by this large sum of money initially, and it's easy to spend it on something other than retirement."

Duh. That's correct. Remember what a great man once said, and let it be a warning to everyone naive enough to think about choosing the lump sum, since IBM 'wants' you to choose the lump sum:

#73903 From: samuel bernadino <w2uhasam@>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:33 pm

has any one been offered a lump sum or is this all conjecture?
#73905 From: justa_bean_counter

Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:39 pm

No vested terminated participants at IBM have been offered a lump sum. However, employees of corporations, other than IBM, stay focused to this group, including some from companies who HAVE offered the de-risking pension buy-out.

Kathi

#73906 From: "donwshuper50" <donwshuper50@>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:56 pm

KATHI . . . No vested terminated participants at IBM have been offered a lump sum. . .

maybe that should read . . . offered a lump sum YET !! ??

Doc don

#73907 From: willbefree25
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:47 am

No VTPs at IBM have been offered a lump sum, YET, but since the original poster asked:

"has any one been offered a lump sum"

emphasis on 'any one', it WAS shoved down the throats of the No Choicers in 1999 and an attempt was made (thank you Janet et al who fought it and stared down the evil Socks Bouchard) to shove it down the throats of the Second Choicers in 1999. No attempt was made (what a surprise!) to shove it down the throats of those grandfathered aka the IGMs to the annuity pension (see a warning there?)in 1999.

I'm guessing the executives and managers and CEOs (TFL, SB, BBG?) haven't had it shoved down their throats either.

If you're still in doubt, see this very good article on why you shouldn't think IBM has your best interests at heart when they 'oh so generously' offer you VTPs a lump sum:



You've been warned. If you're naive, then as a very wise IGMer here said:

...Then there were the ones who were somewhat naive but as much as you would tell them to plan for the future they said IBM will take are of them. After the 1st massive layoff in 1993 it was apparent that the future changed and you'd better watch your back. That was the shot heard across the bow and if ignored then you got what you got. My compassion left and it was time to refocus on my career and family. So goes it and I made my own decision to leave on my terms.

Just as simple as that. Life is Great IGM<<

So come on, VTPs, don't 'get what you get' because you are too naive to know IBM is evil. Regard:

"The amount of money at stake is too good and that's all THEY (emphasis mine)

care about — access to that money, not American workers."

THEY being IBM.

You've been warned.

#73908 From: "Steve" <stevejm1935@>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:07 pm

No one in IBM-US has been offered a lump sum pension. However, employees of other corporations have, and it's s REASONABLE conjecture that at least SOME IBM employees and retirees will be. I believe an IBM executive is involved in a relevant organization.

#73910 From: fhawontcutit
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:05 pm

- In ibmpension@..., samuel bernadino <w2uhasam@> wrote:

has any one been offered a lump sum or is this all conjecture?

From the article:

"In a survey released earlier this year by Aon Hewitt, 35 percent of about 500 large American employers expect to offer a lump sum payout."

Companies with lump-sum pension offers:



#73911 From: "Kevin W" <nowwicked@>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:06 am

I would agree with the YET.

I don't see any reason IBM would not pursue this path.

Between the reduced liabilities and the ability to possibly convince thousands of people to voluntarily leave the workforce, the savings potential is too much for the company to pass up.

I'm still expected the email that says, "If you are eligible for the pension and have not yet retired, you must retire by xyz date or we will convert your pension to the new plan or a lump sum."

#73912 From: CHARLES LYNCH <cflynch56@>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:53 am

Hi, I was laid off in March and will start working again tomorrow for a company in Poughkeepsie, NY. I took a class with my transition money at Dutchess and it worked out.

As far as the pension discussion, my wife worked for Macy's and had a pension but we just found out it was converted to a cash balance account which would not buy a quart of milk.....

#73913 From: "Kevin W" <nowwicked@>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:21 pm

Cash balance offers I don't expect will be very valuable to most of us, with the exception of folks who know they have a limited time to live and have done the math, don't have a surviving spouse who could benefit or other relatives.

#73914 From: "Q" <nguy4444@>
Date: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:10 am

--- In ibmpension@..., "Kevin W" <nowwicked@> wrote:

I'm still expected the email that says, "If you are eligible for the pension and have not yet retired, you must retire by xyz date or we will convert your pension to the new plan or a lump sum."

The above statement I fully agree with. I was at an IBM conference recently and ended up in conversation with about a dozen other IBMers, all (including me) on the old plan and eligible to retire. Two things we all agreed on. That the above statement will happen, and that sometime either in 2014 or 2015 IBM will move employees and retirees as much as possible to the health exchanges.

My guess is that the majority of IBM employees still on the old plan expect these to happen... and our focus now is how prepare as best as possible for when those items occur.

#73917 From: "teamb562" <teamb562@>
Date: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:13 am

Was there any speculation whether we will be able to use FHA funds to pay for the health care exchanges?

#73921 From: "Q" <nguy4444@>
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:32 pm

We felt that, if we were allowed to use FHA funds for the exchanges, there would be some kind of "catch" to it. It which case the best one could hope for is to use the FHA for the approved "private" insurance (which will last even shorter than it does now) before moving to the exchange.

Again, no special insight or knowledge - just a group of us discussing and sharing ideas and how to best prepare, based on future likelihoods.

#73922 From: justa_bean_counter
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:28 pm

Please, no more speculative posting on health care options of the future.

Kathi

Please, no more speculative posting on health care options of the future.

Kathi

I attempted to post the following message on the ibmpension board several days ago. Post never made it so I assume the moderators rejected it. Would someone that knows how to bypass the moderators post the following on my behalf?

Kathi,

This an interesting subject to me, and I thought that it was the source of some good discussion on this board. I have no problem with informed speculation. I have posted the entire thread on the ibmpensionissues board and invite responses there:



--- In ibmpension@..., justa_bean_counter <no_reply@> wrote:

Please, no more speculative posting on health care options of the future.

Kathi

As a retiree, I am lucky enough to have IBM health care coverage and, although our benefits seem to shrink a bit more every year, having IBM coverage is much better than having no coverage. Given Obamacare, IBM may very well decide to stop offering coverage to retirees. I've studied Obamacare and have found that it offers me few benefits, so I'm hoping that it will be repealed in 2013, shortly after Obama starts spending more time with his family.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., flatiron_blues <no_reply@> wrote:

Here is an interesting subject that was the source of some good discussion on the ibmpension board that was prematurely cut off by a moderator. I am posting the entire thread here and inviting responses to any or all of the messages.

#73901 From: chz_whiz
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:37 pm

Corporate America is finally ready to deal with a monkey on its back: massive pension obligations.

;

sion-risk-with-lump-sum-offers/

or



Important excerpt:

"We hope people think really carefully about the decision," said Nancy Hwa, a spokeswoman for Pension Rights Center, a consumer organization in Washington,

D.C. "It's very easy to be tempted by this large sum of money initially, and it's easy to spend it on something other than retirement."

#73902 From: willbefree25
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:49 pm

"It's very easy to be tempted by this large sum of money initially, and it's easy to spend it on something other than retirement."

Duh. That's correct. Remember what a great man once said, and let it be a warning to everyone naive enough to think about choosing the lump sum, since IBM 'wants' you to choose the lump sum:

#73903 From: samuel bernadino <w2uhasam@>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:33 pm

has any one been offered a lump sum or is this all conjecture?
#73905 From: justa_bean_counter

Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:39 pm

No vested terminated participants at IBM have been offered a lump sum. However, employees of corporations, other than IBM, stay focused to this group, including some from companies who HAVE offered the de-risking pension buy-out.

Kathi

#73906 From: "donwshuper50" <donwshuper50@>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:56 pm

KATHI . . . No vested terminated participants at IBM have been offered a lump sum. . .

maybe that should read . . . offered a lump sum YET !! ??

Doc don

#73907 From: willbefree25
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:47 am

No VTPs at IBM have been offered a lump sum, YET, but since the original poster asked:

"has any one been offered a lump sum"

emphasis on 'any one', it WAS shoved down the throats of the No Choicers in 1999 and an attempt was made (thank you Janet et al who fought it and stared down the evil Socks Bouchard) to shove it down the throats of the Second Choicers in 1999. No attempt was made (what a surprise!) to shove it down the throats of those grandfathered aka the IGMs to the annuity pension (see a warning there?)in 1999.

I'm guessing the executives and managers and CEOs (TFL, SB, BBG?) haven't had it shoved down their throats either.

If you're still in doubt, see this very good article on why you shouldn't think IBM has your best interests at heart when they 'oh so generously' offer you VTPs a lump sum:



You've been warned. If you're naive, then as a very wise IGMer here said:

...Then there were the ones who were somewhat naive but as much as you would tell them to plan for the future they said IBM will take are of them. After the 1st massive layoff in 1993 it was apparent that the future changed and you'd better watch your back. That was the shot heard across the bow and if ignored then you got what you got. My compassion left and it was time to refocus on my career and family. So goes it and I made my own decision to leave on my terms.

Just as simple as that. Life is Great IGM<<

So come on, VTPs, don't 'get what you get' because you are too naive to know IBM is evil. Regard:

"The amount of money at stake is too good and that's all THEY (emphasis mine)

care about — access to that money, not American workers."

THEY being IBM.

You've been warned.

#73908 From: "Steve" <stevejm1935@>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:07 pm

No one in IBM-US has been offered a lump sum pension. However, employees of other corporations have, and it's s REASONABLE conjecture that at least SOME IBM employees and retirees will be. I believe an IBM executive is involved in a relevant organization.

#73910 From: fhawontcutit
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:05 pm

- In ibmpension@..., samuel bernadino <w2uhasam@> wrote:

has any one been offered a lump sum or is this all conjecture?

From the article:

"In a survey released earlier this year by Aon Hewitt, 35 percent of about 500 large American employers expect to offer a lump sum payout."

Companies with lump-sum pension offers:



#73911 From: "Kevin W" <nowwicked@>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:06 am

I would agree with the YET.

I don't see any reason IBM would not pursue this path.

Between the reduced liabilities and the ability to possibly convince thousands of people to voluntarily leave the workforce, the savings potential is too much for the company to pass up.

I'm still expected the email that says, "If you are eligible for the pension and have not yet retired, you must retire by xyz date or we will convert your pension to the new plan or a lump sum."

#73912 From: CHARLES LYNCH <cflynch56@>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:53 am

Hi, I was laid off in March and will start working again tomorrow for a company in Poughkeepsie, NY. I took a class with my transition money at Dutchess and it worked out.

As far as the pension discussion, my wife worked for Macy's and had a pension but we just found out it was converted to a cash balance account which would not buy a quart of milk.....

#73913 From: "Kevin W" <nowwicked@>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:21 pm

Cash balance offers I don't expect will be very valuable to most of us, with the exception of folks who know they have a limited time to live and have done the math, don't have a surviving spouse who could benefit or other relatives.

#73914 From: "Q" <nguy4444@>
Date: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:10 am

--- In ibmpension@..., "Kevin W" <nowwicked@> wrote:

I'm still expected the email that says, "If you are eligible for the pension and have not yet retired, you must retire by xyz date or we will convert your pension to the new plan or a lump sum."

The above statement I fully agree with. I was at an IBM conference recently and ended up in conversation with about a dozen other IBMers, all (including me) on the old plan and eligible to retire. Two things we all agreed on. That the above statement will happen, and that sometime either in 2014 or 2015 IBM will move employees and retirees as much as possible to the health exchanges.

My guess is that the majority of IBM employees still on the old plan expect these to happen... and our focus now is how prepare as best as possible for when those items occur.

#73917 From: "teamb562" <teamb562@>
Date: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:13 am

Was there any speculation whether we will be able to use FHA funds to pay for the health care exchanges?

#73921 From: "Q" <nguy4444@>
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:32 pm

We felt that, if we were allowed to use FHA funds for the exchanges, there would be some kind of "catch" to it. It which case the best one could hope for is to use the FHA for the approved "private" insurance (which will last even shorter than it does now) before moving to the exchange.

Again, no special insight or knowledge - just a group of us discussing and sharing ideas and how to best prepare, based on future likelihoods.

#73922 From: justa_bean_counter
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:28 pm

Please, no more speculative posting on health care options of the future.

Kathi