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There are a number of DIY reflow projects on YouTube. The simplest being merely placing the PCB on a hotplate and watching it, the next step up using the hotplate at the soak temperature (drying the volatiles and activating the flux), then a hot air reflow gun to melt the solder.
Or using a toaster oven by manually changing temperature, and watching the board.
A lot of people seem to have stopped there.
Going further requires programming, so you'll find more reflow oven projects on sites like forum.arduino.cc and here is a recent thread from 2020:
Note that it pretty quickly goes from PID controller to watching a hotplate.
I don't know how good it is, but I see even Amazon is selling soldering reflow ovens, lowest price $239.
I'm one of probably a number of people who have the intent, got many of the parts, but never finished. Convection toaster oven found at a thrift store, 320x240 touchscreen so it can display the temperature profile, Arduino, thermocouple interface and type K thermocouples, SSR.
I actually have two tabletop convection ovens. One is a standard toaster oven, the other is meant to put like a chicken or a small roast in it. Both convection. The roast oven seems better suited to putting the controls inside. The standard toaster oven, I was going to put a box next to it with the electronics in it.
--
Steven Greenfield AE7HD
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This oven controller is the one I bought on Amazon
The price has gone up a bit but far less expensive than other solutions suggested though admittedly less capable. If this is a popular requirement, could someone take this on as a DIY project? That is, to wire the two (or maybe 3) buttons of the oven controller through opto-isolators to an Arduino for auto setting the set-temperature for a specific time schedule. The two temp set buttons will set the temp up and down (the power-on default is change temp by 0.1 deg increment which is probably too low). The 3rd button selects the setting change increment to 0.1, 1, 10, or 100 degrees per up or down set-temp button increment. A pretty straight forward and easy code algorithm for the Arduino vs writing PID code for direct control.? Good luck!? -mike
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Do you have a pdf manual to share? And a picture
of how you set it up? I wouldn't mind playing with this if I
knew more about it.
On 06/02/2020 05:43 PM, Michael
Sinclair via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
This oven
controller is the one I bought on Amazon
The price has gone up a bit but far less expensive than other
solutions suggested though admittedly less capable. If this is a
popular requirement, could someone take this on as a DIY project?
That is, to wire the two (or maybe 3) buttons of the oven
controller through opto-isolators to an Arduino for auto setting
the set-temperature for a specific time schedule. The two temp set
buttons will set the temp up and down (the power-on default is
change temp by 0.1 deg increment which is probably too low). The
3rd button selects the setting change increment to 0.1, 1, 10, or
100 degrees per up or down set-temp button increment. A pretty
straight forward and easy code algorithm for the Arduino vs
writing PID code for direct control.? Good luck!? -mike
|
Connecting to an existing temperature controller seems fiddly.
Arduino to LCD touchscreen, type K MAX6675 with suitable type K thermocouple wire/probe, 40A SSR on heatsink.
Someone already posted a link to a PID library, no need to write it. Just tune it. But you must have to tune that oven controller, if not, then it isn't really a benefit.
--
Steven Greenfield AE7HD
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Watch out with ssr they can stick on , put some type of high limit safety device in the heater circuit in case it does. Saw this happen with a pizza oven and food come out on fire.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 2, 2020, at 7:56 PM, Steven Greenfield AE7HD via groups.io <alienrelics@...> wrote:
?Connecting to an existing temperature controller seems fiddly.
Arduino to LCD touchscreen, type K MAX6675 with suitable type K thermocouple wire/probe, 40A SSR on heatsink.
Someone already posted a link to a PID library, no need to write it. Just tune it. But you must have to tune that oven controller, if not, then it isn't really a benefit.
--
Steven Greenfield AE7HD
|
Just curious.
What is wrong with using a thermister and a 100K
resistor to read the temperature as an analog number and
displaying it on the ARDUINO serial monitor?
That number will be something like 400 to 1,000
and
At the same time
taking the temperature with a real digital
thermometer
and once you know what the target temperature equates
to on the thermister then you never need the digital thermometer
again.
The rest is simply either solid state or relays
...all readily available cheap and documented stuff for the
$3.50 ARDUINO UNO.
Thats the spirit of
===>> home brew pcbs <<====???
I went down that path using a PIC16F628 6 years
ago using BTA24 as my solid state relay. I sort of kicked myself
when I learned ARDUINO a long time later.
If I had used an ARDUINO then I coul dhave left
the LCD out of the project.
BUT the fruit of this labor IS the BTA24 carrier
board because it can easily be attached to any arduino:
On 06/02/2020 07:56 PM, Steven
Greenfield AE7HD via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Connecting to an
existing temperature controller seems fiddly.
Arduino to LCD touchscreen, type K MAX6675 with suitable type K
thermocouple wire/probe, 40A SSR on heatsink.
Someone already posted a link to a PID library, no need to write
it. Just tune it. But you must have to tune that oven controller,
if not, then it isn't really a benefit.
--
Steven Greenfield AE7HD
|
Thermistors aren’t rated to 200C. ? Tony ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rob via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, 3 June 2020 12:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [homebrewpcbs] DIY Toaster Reflow oven? Just curious. What is wrong with using a thermister and a 100K resistor to read the temperature as an analog number and displaying it on the ARDUINO serial monitor? That number will be something like 400 to 1,000 and At the same time taking the temperature with a real digital thermometer and once you know what the target temperature equates to on the thermister then you never need the digital thermometer again. The rest is simply either solid state or relays ...all readily available cheap and documented stuff for the $3.50 ARDUINO UNO. Thats the spirit of ===>> home brew pcbs <<====??? ? I went down that path using a PIC16F628 6 years ago using BTA24 as my solid state relay. I sort of kicked myself when I learned ARDUINO a long time later. If I had used an ARDUINO then I coul dhave left the LCD out of the project. BUT the fruit of this labor IS the BTA24 carrier board because it can easily be attached to any arduino:
? ? On 06/02/2020 07:56 PM, Steven Greenfield AE7HD via groups.io wrote: Connecting to an existing temperature controller seems fiddly.
Arduino to LCD touchscreen, type K MAX6675 with suitable type K thermocouple wire/probe, 40A SSR on heatsink.
Someone already posted a link to a PID library, no need to write it. Just tune it. But you must have to tune that oven controller, if not, then it isn't really a benefit.
--
Steven Greenfield AE7HD
?
|
Reading that arduino.cc thread where they talk about using a hotplate to heat up the board and then a hot air gun to finish the parts off make me realise that’s exactly how I replace LEDs on boards. ? The PCB are aluminium backed, so that sucks out any heat if you try to use a soldering iron, or even a hot air gun at times. ? You’ve been able to get these board heaters for a while: , but lately these ones have come out: that self-regulate to whatever they’re supposed to be.? That’s what I use. ? Tony ? ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steven Greenfield AE7HD via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, 3 June 2020 2:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [homebrewpcbs] DIY Toaster Reflow oven? There are a number of DIY reflow projects on YouTube. The simplest being merely placing the PCB on a hotplate and watching it, the next step up using the hotplate at the soak temperature (drying the volatiles and activating the flux), then a hot air reflow gun to melt the solder.
Or using a toaster oven by manually changing temperature, and watching the board.
A lot of people seem to have stopped there.
Going further requires programming, so you'll find more reflow oven projects on sites like forum.arduino.cc and here is a recent thread from 2020:
Note that it pretty quickly goes from PID controller to watching a hotplate.
I don't know how good it is, but I see even Amazon is selling soldering reflow ovens, lowest price $239.
I'm one of probably a number of people who have the intent, got many of the parts, but never finished. Convection toaster oven found at a thrift store, 320x240 touchscreen so it can display the temperature profile, Arduino, thermocouple interface and type K thermocouples, SSR.
I actually have two tabletop convection ovens. One is a standard toaster oven, the other is meant to put like a chicken or a small roast in it. Both convection. The roast oven seems better suited to putting the controls inside. The standard toaster oven, I was going to put a box next to it with the electronics in it.
--
Steven Greenfield AE7HD
|
It’s occurred to me you don’t need the PID library, you could fake it easily enough. ? Say the profile first requires heating to 100C in 60 seconds, and the oven does that in 30.? PWM the SSR at about 50% duty cycle and you’d probably achieve that.? Then do the same for the remainder of the stages. ? Close enough for hobby & government work I’d say. ? Tony ? ? ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steven Greenfield AE7HD via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, 3 June 2020 9:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [homebrewpcbs] DIY Toaster Reflow oven? Connecting to an existing temperature controller seems fiddly.
Arduino to LCD touchscreen, type K MAX6675 with suitable type K thermocouple wire/probe, 40A SSR on heatsink.
Someone already posted a link to a PID library, no need to write it. Just tune it. But you must have to tune that oven controller, if not, then it isn't really a benefit.
--
Steven Greenfield AE7HD
|
hmmm... wow...???? I did not know that.... 200 C
limit ?!?!?
I had huge success measuring 350 F? with
mine....? laser printer toner temps.....
and
I thought the SMD cooking solder target was 210
C?? which is 410 F
which is no where near 300 C?? 572 F?? written on
the NTC3950 specifications.
I think this definitely warrants some more
research.
===========================================================================================================
I found this on AMAZON:
The temperature of the new NTC3950 thermistor can
be up to 300 degree celsius.
Easy to instal on your 3D printer or other DIY
project with the ends of the wires are pre-stripped. Length:
1m/39.37 Inches. Accuracy: +/- 1%.
Tegg 5PCS NTC 3950 100K Thermistors Temp ... - Amazon.com
? Tegg-Thermistors-Connector-Printer-Heatbed
===============================================================================================================
On 06/02/2020 10:15 PM, Tony Smith
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thermistors
aren’t rated to 200C.
?
Tony
?
?
?
Just curious.
What is wrong with using a
thermister and a 100K resistor to read the temperature as an
analog number and
displaying it on the ARDUINO
serial monitor?
That number will be something
like 400 to 1,000
and
At the same time
taking the temperature with a
real digital thermometer
and once you know what the
target temperature equates to on the thermister then you
never need the digital thermometer again.
The rest is simply either
solid state or relays ...all readily available cheap and
documented stuff for the $3.50 ARDUINO UNO.
Thats the spirit of
===>> home brew pcbs
<<====???
?
I went down that path using a
PIC16F628 6 years ago using BTA24 as my solid state relay. I
sort of kicked myself when I learned ARDUINO a long time
later.
If I had used an ARDUINO then
I coul dhave left the LCD out of the project.
BUT the fruit of this labor IS
the BTA24 carrier board because it can easily be attached to
any arduino:
?
?
|
Yeah, they’ll work.? I was thinking of 10K thermistors for some reason. ? Don’t forget your lookup table. ? Tony ? ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rob via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, 3 June 2020 12:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [homebrewpcbs] DIY Toaster Reflow oven? hmmm... wow...???? I did not know that.... 200 C limit ?!?!? I had huge success measuring 350 F? with mine....? laser printer toner temps..... and I thought the SMD cooking solder target was 210 C?? which is 410 F which is no where near 300 C?? 572 F?? written on the NTC3950 specifications. ? I think this definitely warrants some more research. =========================================================================================================== I found this on AMAZON: The temperature of the new NTC3950 thermistor can be up to 300 degree celsius. Easy to instal on your 3D printer or other DIY project with the ends of the wires are pre-stripped. Length: 1m/39.37 Inches. Accuracy: +/- 1%.
Tegg 5PCS NTC 3950 100K Thermistors Temp ... - Amazon.com
? Tegg-Thermistors-Connector-Printer-Heatbed
=============================================================================================================== ? ? On 06/02/2020 10:15 PM, Tony Smith wrote: Thermistors aren’t rated to 200C. ? Tony ? ? ? Just curious. What is wrong with using a thermister and a 100K resistor to read the temperature as an analog number and displaying it on the ARDUINO serial monitor? That number will be something like 400 to 1,000 and At the same time taking the temperature with a real digital thermometer and once you know what the target temperature equates to on the thermister then you never need the digital thermometer again. The rest is simply either solid state or relays ...all readily available cheap and documented stuff for the $3.50 ARDUINO UNO. Thats the spirit of ===>> home brew pcbs <<====??? ? I went down that path using a PIC16F628 6 years ago using BTA24 as my solid state relay. I sort of kicked myself when I learned ARDUINO a long time later. If I had used an ARDUINO then I coul dhave left the LCD out of the project. BUT the fruit of this labor IS the BTA24 carrier board because it can easily be attached to any arduino:
? ?
?
|
Has anyone played with 3D printer heat tables for SMD ?
The PCB are aluminium backed, so that sucks out
any heat if you try to use a soldering iron, or even a hot air
gun at times.
?
You’ve been able to get these board heaters for a while:
, but lately these
ones have come out:
that self-regulate
to whatever they’re supposed to be.? That’s what I use.
?
Tony
?
|
The picture didn’t come thru, but the usual aluminium-backed boards that most 3D printers use are only meant to be run at 100C-ish.? I think maximum is about 150C for that stuff. ? The silicone heaters go up to 350C, more than enough for SMD soldering.? For the price you might as well go and buy a cheap board heater. ? No real advantage in 3D printing for using a silicon mat over a PCB one except the mains rated ones tend to be high wattage so they heat up faster. ? Tony ? ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rob via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, 3 June 2020 5:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [homebrewpcbs] DIY Toaster Reflow oven? Has anyone played with 3D printer heat tables for SMD ? ? The PCB are aluminium backed, so that sucks out any heat if you try to use a soldering iron, or even a hot air gun at times.
?
You’ve been able to get these board heaters for a while: , but lately these ones have come out: that self-regulate to whatever they’re supposed to be.? That’s what I use.
?
Tony
? ?
|
This is the Pid controller you want. High quality and function .? https://www.amazon.com/TEMPERATURE-CONTROLLER-RAMP-SOAK-OUTPUT/dp/B01DC3KNS0/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=syl-2352p&qid=1591184860&sr=8-4
On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 5:39 PM, Rob via groups.io <roomberg@...> wrote:
Can you point to the right? PID oven controller available from
AMAZON? to buy?
On 06/01/2020 04:54 PM, Michael
Sinclair via groups.io wrote:
If you're
cost-conscience or want to keep it simple, buy one of the PID oven
controllers available from AMAZON. I bought one that was ~$35 and
can hold ~+/-1 deg C.? It has no time/temp function but that may
be possible manually or by externally controlling the TEMP SET
button(s) with your Arduino, through opto-isolators.
Make sure you
- Buy a temp controller that operates under PID and has an
Auto-Tune function. Mine came with an external 40A solid state
relay so can control a large oven.
- That your oven can be switched to permanently on, under it's own
temp control (set to a temp above the controller's temp-set) which
you can use as a safety override.
Good luck,
Mike
|
I don't know if 3950 is a generic term, or what, but Adafruit lists what they call an "3950 NTC" thermistor that is a 10k, max 105C with epoxy coating and vinyl wire. So read the specs of what you are ordering. I've been bit by that before on type K thermocouples, where some I bought had a sleeve that turned out to be plain heatshrink. So it burned to black carbon when I Kapton taped it to the side of a soldering iron...
Sure, no reason not to use something simpler to interface for the temperature. It doesn't really need a 1% resistor, just one that is temperature stable. So don't get them out of your old junkbox of grampa's carbon composition resistors.
--
Steven Greenfield AE7HD
|
The ones intended for 3D printer hot-ends should be ok as they run at 200-250C. ? 贬辞飞别惫别谤… ? As you say, read the specs.? The 3D printer ones have Teflon insulation which is nice, but that usually only covers the first couple of inches, the rest might well be standard PVC coated wire.? Ok for a 3D printer, not so much for an oven where the sensor needs to go in the middle of the plate. ? Tony ? ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steven Greenfield AE7HD via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, 3 June 2020 11:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [homebrewpcbs] DIY Toaster Reflow oven? I don't know if 3950 is a generic term, or what, but Adafruit lists what they call an "3950 NTC" thermistor that is a 10k, max 105C with epoxy coating and vinyl wire. So read the specs of what you are ordering. I've been bit by that before on type K thermocouples, where some I bought had a sleeve that turned out to be plain heatshrink. So it burned to black carbon when I Kapton taped it to the side of a soldering iron...
Sure, no reason not to use something simpler to interface for the temperature. It doesn't really need a 1% resistor, just one that is temperature stable. So don't get them out of your old junkbox of grampa's carbon composition resistors.
--
Steven Greenfield AE7HD
|
Here's the manual for my Inkbird ITC106VH? (covers other models too)?
They have models for energizing external relay coils @ 12-24 and 120-240v if you don't like SSRs.? Much better than building your own IMHO....unless you want the experience and will probably spend more.
There's really nothing fiddly about it if you're comparing to doing it all yourself. It works from -50 -> +1,300 deg C, 0.5 seconds control loop, 0.1 deg C control and will work as-is if you want to do your own timing manually. I built a small stand for mine and wired in series with a short AC extension cord. An easy project.
A few years ago I bought a stuffed PCB from SparkFun that did this PID control plus reflow timing for US$85 but it's no longer available.
Good luck? ? -mike
|
A good thing to keep in mind is that, where a contactor/relay rated at 30A will run just fine at 15A with no special effort, a 40A SSR will require a large heat sink and possibly forced air cooling, or at least mount it for best natural airflow.
Plus the issue of counterfeit and creatively rated specs.
I've noticed that many of the heat sinks for SSRs have rather thin aluminum extrusion, here is one from Aliexpress:
This one from brewpi has a thicker extrusion:
Personally, I prefer something like this with the fins right out of the plate, as a shorter path means lower thermal resistance:
?
Mount it for vertical airflow with large, well placed holes in the case, should get rid of heat very well.
--
Steven Greenfield AE7HD
|
There was a note from Adafruit just a few months ago about a Reflow Oven project based on their Micro-Python board (can't remember the name of it) along with source code (again Micro-Python).? The Adafruit board is overpriced, in my opinion) but wouldn't be too hard to replicate with a Blue-Pill or Black-Pill from Ali or BangGood.? Coupled with a cheap toaster oven this would be a very inexpensive way to go!
|
Does anyone have a feel for the maximum update rate is that would be required to drive a standard contactor/relay from a pid controller interfacing to a toaster oven?
Thanks, Steve K1RF
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Steven Greenfield AE7HD