开云体育

I'm saving the file to Distiller from Ultiboard, not scanning it. I
like the suggestion of using an HP G/L translator. The main thing I
want to do is save the files so that I can upload them to the web
for others to use.


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., "Dave Hylands" <dhylands@b...> wrote:

Maybe you are using incorrect settings for Distiller? IIRC there

was

something about resolution (DPI).
KPL

Distiller does have a resolution setting, but this may not help

you.

Distiller keeps vector objects in the PostScript as vector objects

in the

PDF. It has the ability to resample raster objects, so if the

underlying

image in the PostScript has more resolution, then you can improve

things by

turning off resampling. Turn it off for all image types (under the
Compression Tab in Job Options). I would set Compression to ZIP,

so that

you're using lossless compression.

Otherwise, the resolution setting is for PostScript that queries to
determine what raster resolution is being used. I would set it to

a number

like 1200 or 2400, and only set it smaller if you're experiencing

file

size/display speed issues.

In Acrobat, if you crank up the magnification and you see the

pixels getting

bigger, then you're looking at raster objects. If the pixels stay

at screen

resolution, then you're looking at vector objects.

Acrobat normally displays at around 75 dpi, so at the maximum zoom

setting

of 1600%, you're one screen pixel corresponds to approximately

1200 dpi.

Most newer laser printers are 600 or 1200 dpi.

Dave Hylands

I need to draw some schematics
of my circuits, but I do not have
any software.

Any recommendations on free
or inexpensive software for
this? The simpler the better.

TIA,

Dave
The Inexpensive Seismometer Project

Yukon Gold Prospecting

Hello Dave,

YES! There are some schematic and PCB programs out there. Eagle
Express is a FREE download with ONLY a limitation of board size (4" x
3.2" size board) but it is FULLY functional schematic editor AND is
will then create the PCB for you even including a Autorouter. Here
is there website:

Here is a FREEWARE full version of SCORE - Schematic Capture for
Windows? which there are NO limitations at all. Here is there
website:

WinCircuit2002 and WinSchema98 are a good choice for doing schematic
drawing with WinSchema98 and then trun around and do the PCB with
WinCircuit2002. Here is there website:


I hope this helps

Jon Bevar
Founder of RoBasic Research

"Robotic Interfacing via the Personal Computer"

Check the Bookmarks area of Homebrew PCBs.

A reminder for everyone- although the list hasn't been here that
long, a lot of people have already asked and answered a lot of
questions. I've posted some (I think) very useful links in the
Bookmarks section.

So, ask questions, but look around a bit first and see if the
answer is already here.

BTW, I am using (still learning) the free Schematic and PCB
software from CADSoft, Eagle 4. It is free for personal use.



And we're up to 171 members!

Steve Greenfield

--- David Saum <dsaum@...> wrote:

I need to draw some schematics
of my circuits, but I do not have
any software.

Any recommendations on free
or inexpensive software for
this? The simpler the better.

TIA,

Dave
The Inexpensive Seismometer Project

Yukon Gold Prospecting




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Added to the Bookmarks page.

Steve

--- robasic <robasic@...> wrote:
-snip-

Here is a FREEWARE full version of SCORE - Schematic Capture for
Windows? which there are NO limitations at all. Here is there
website:

WinCircuit2002 and WinSchema98 are a good choice for doing
schematic
drawing with WinSchema98 and then trun around and do the PCB with

WinCircuit2002. Here is there website:

-snip-

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball

--- robasic <robasic@...> wrote:

Jon Bevar
Founder of RoBasic Research

"Robotic Interfacing via the Personal Computer"

And added this to the SumoRobot Bookmarks.

Steve

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., "j_hallows" <j_hallows@h...> wrote:

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., JanRwl@A... wrote:

each! Seems plating-through should be within the realm of us ol'
home-brewers who can make a double-sided board, if we just knew

the

steps,

and where to get the chemistry to plate the holes before etching.

Could not agree more. I know the thoery but the practice it's a

whole

different ball park.

You DO know, doncha, that the PTH is done FIRST, then "SOLDER-

plating" of the

desired pattern (including through the holes!), and etch LAST,
with chemistry that will etch copper, but NOT "solder".

Took me sometime to figure this one out. But it's not solder but
tinned. And the process is called pattern plating.

As a homebrewer it is too expensive for me to send boards out to
make. If I could only find out a simple way to make plated thru

holes

at home without killing myself. And eyelets and baluns are too time
consuming.

Hi there,

I just discovered this yahoo groups forum on making PCBs at
home. Its good to see people out there making boards
themselves. When I saw the post on trying to do PTH at home I
though this could be something I might able to answer.

Making plated boards involved many more processes than a
simple 'print and etch' method. I'm sure you know that first the
holes must be made conductive in order to electroplate with
copper. This is one of the major challenges, and the industry may
use one of several techniques. I will not go into the details
because much of this information in already explained on the
web. An excellent information source is;



PTHs are possible to do at home but you should be aware that it
involves many chemical stages. Although these chemicals are not
necessary highly toxic they can be a difficult process to control
and get working properly. So unless you find chemistry fun and
don't mind getting your hands wet then I its a complete waste of
time and money trying to implement a PTH workshop at home. I
have setup the necessary plating and etching tanks to make a tin
finish pattern plated board and had taken me almost two years.
The holes are made conductive using a processes similar to
MacDermid's BLACKHOLE processes where by a conductive carbon
black layer deposited inside the holes prior to electroplating. If
you have any questions then feel free to ask.

Adam

PTHs are possible to do at home but you should be aware that it
involves many chemical stages. Although these chemicals are not
necessary highly toxic they can be a difficult process to control
and get working properly. So unless you find chemistry fun and
don't mind getting your hands wet then I its a complete waste of
time and money trying to implement a PTH workshop at home. I
have setup the necessary plating and etching tanks to make a tin
finish pattern plated board and had taken me almost two years.
The holes are made conductive using a processes similar to
MacDermid's BLACKHOLE processes where by a conductive carbon
black layer deposited inside the holes prior to electroplating. If
you have any questions then feel free to ask.

Hey Adam maybe you should write a produre of your method of making
PTH. I would love to know the costs involved and chemistry. I am not
familar with the BLACKHOLE method. The hardest part is making the
holes conductive. I know the squeezee method were you squeeze
conductive ink into the holes. But the ink is very expensive. Also
the Gallum method but Gallum is hard to find. Is the BLACKHOLE the
same.

Thanks.

--
John Hallows

The BLACKHOLE processes is fast, cheaper and safer to run than conventional
electroless copper. This is expected since its aim is to replace the
electroless copper line in the PCB fabrication plant. The low toxicity is the
reason I choose to develop a carbon black processes myself at home. However
the chemistry of BLACKHOLE is a trade secret and your not going to replicate
the same results at home. BLACKHOLE SP is the latest process from MacDermid
and performs many times better than the process explained below. Of course
the hobbyist doesn't need the reliability of a multimillion dollar plant
producing a hundreds of panels a day. Its taken me about 6 months of fiddling
around with carbon black dispersions, conditioning solutions and circuit
board material to get a working process suitable for home use. Basically my
process can be written down as follows;

1) drill PCB
2) clean copper surface with week solution of detergent/NaOH and 600 emery
paper.
3) rinse well with tap water
4) immerse in a "hole wall conditioner" 1 min
5) rinse well with with tap water
6) immerse in "carbon dispersion" 1 min
7) sponge off excess dispersion with sponge, so all holes are fully empty.
8) hot air dry
9) repeat steps 4 to 8
10) immerse in "activator" for 1 minute
11) rinse well with with tap water
12) microetch in a conventional non-chloride etching solution
13) spray rinse with with tap water to remove all traces of carbon on copper
surface.
14) air dry (optional)


Bath compositions/conditions;

hole wall conditioner:
5 to 10 g/l gelatine
0.04 to 0.06 g/l CuSO4.5H20 (as a biocide)
temperature between 26???C and 32???C
agitation: unnecessary


carbon dispersion:
2 to 4% (w/w) of non-ionic surfactant based
conductive carbon black dispersion paste*
6 to 10 g/l acetic acid
room temperature
agitation: unnecessary


activator:
1 g/l of dye D&C Green No.5 , C.I 61570.
room temperature
agitation: not known

non-chloride etchant:
100 to 200 g/l ammonium persulfate
or
1% hydrogen peroxide
10% sulfuric acid.
both baths may be used at room temperature.


* The carbon black dispersion paste is FLEXOBRITE BLACK 258/86 manufactured
by Degussa Coatings & Colorants.

You will have to phone around and get a 500g sample for aqueous based
non-ionic surfactant conductive carbon black dispersion. Many of the colorant
manufactures will have these. 500g will last you forever. There is still a
whole range of information I left out, either because I haven't worked it out
yet or I missed it. The D&C Green No5 is available from food, drug & cosmetic
dye suppliers, either as a sample or in small volume (1 kg). Good luck

Adam





j_hallows wrote:

Hi all,

To make spray-on prp resist work well, the copper has to be cleaned
well. Some things that work: salt and vinegar, salt and lemon juice,
citric acid, and probably lots of others.

I like citric acid the best, as its ok to use in the kitchen.
Mix up 30-50% powdered citric acid (sold in supermarkets), with
hot water until disolved. Wiping it over the pcb blank with paper
towel is sufficient to degrease it, without any harsh scrubbing needed.

I don't know if you want this around if you have kids, but MG
Chemicals makes "Liquid Tin" -- which plates in 5 minutes. The
contents are nasty -- fluoroboric acid and stannous fluoroborate.
Allied Electronics sells it, but not that they will ship all
chemicals separately and you pay a UPS surcharge for Hazmat. It's
expensive at $27 for 17 ounces.

Why not use Circuit Works conductive epoxy?

Why not silver plate your PCB. It's easy to do with "CoolAmp".
CoolAmp silver plating powder is applied to a clean PCB with a damp
cloth pad. Simply dip the damp cloth pad into the powder and run onto to
the PCB, in about 30 seconds you will have a silver plated circuit
board, wash with water. I save the cloth pad in a plastic bas and for
small circuits, I find it still "plates" days later by simply wetting it
and not having to apply more CoolAmp powder. Soldering qualities are
improved also.
The plating is pure silver, this product is normally used to silver
plate very large circuit breaker switch contacts to reduce the contact
resistance. I originally ordered a 4 ounces and paid $70 for it. that
was 3 years ago and it's about half way used. I do a lot of prototype
PCB's in a year. $70 sounds expensive but compared to "Tin-It" that I
was using, CoolAmp is CHEAP.
This link shows my CNC stepper motor driver PCB plated with CoolAmp. The
plating does not turn black like silver does. This board is one of the
first I did three years ago, and last I looked at it (it's enclosed) it
was bright and shiny.

There are other examples at my site

Link to CoolAmp Description in the Thomas Register, and contact infor
for the manufacturer:-


For High Frequency applications I think CoolAmp will provide same
reduced surface resistance as normal silver plating does.

Hans W


caveteursus wrote:

I don't know if you want this around if you have kids, but MG
Chemicals makes "Liquid Tin" -- which plates in 5 minutes. The
contents are nasty -- fluoroboric acid and stannous fluoroborate.
Allied Electronics sells it, but not that they will ship all
chemicals separately and you pay a UPS surcharge for Hazmat. It's
expensive at $27 for 17 ounces.


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No doubt it has a use for repairing things that need to be conductive.
I can't see squeezing epoxy into 500-1500 0.032" holes.
Another thing it would not allow through hole connections where
components like sockets need to be soldered in place. The chance of a
short due to smearing the epoxy during application makes me think it's
never going to be practical as a through hole connection.
hansw


caveteursus wrote:

Why not use Circuit Works conductive epoxy?


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This sounds good. I assume that this is just for hole activation and
standard electroplating is done next to build up the holes. What is
the success rate at home? And estimated costs? I don't want to dive
into something that would be so hard to replicate. Thanks for the
Info Adam.


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Adam Seychell <adam_seychell@y...> wrote:

The BLACKHOLE processes is fast, cheaper and safer to run than

conventional

electroless copper. This is expected since its aim is to replace the
electroless copper line in the PCB fabrication plant. The low

toxicity is the

reason I choose to develop a carbon black processes myself at home.

However

the chemistry of BLACKHOLE is a trade secret and your not going to

replicate

the same results at home. BLACKHOLE SP is the latest process from

MacDermid

and performs many times better than the process explained below. Of

course

the hobbyist doesn't need the reliability of a multimillion dollar

plant

producing a hundreds of panels a day. Its taken me about 6 months

of fiddling

around with carbon black dispersions, conditioning solutions and

circuit

board material to get a working process suitable for home use.

Basically my

process can be written down as follows;

1) drill PCB
2) clean copper surface with week solution of detergent/NaOH and

600 emery

paper.
3) rinse well with tap water
4) immerse in a "hole wall conditioner" 1 min
5) rinse well with with tap water
6) immerse in "carbon dispersion" 1 min
7) sponge off excess dispersion with sponge, so all holes are fully

empty.

8) hot air dry
9) repeat steps 4 to 8
10) immerse in "activator" for 1 minute
11) rinse well with with tap water
12) microetch in a conventional non-chloride etching solution
13) spray rinse with with tap water to remove all traces of carbon

on copper

surface.
14) air dry (optional)


Bath compositions/conditions;

hole wall conditioner:
5 to 10 g/l gelatine
0.04 to 0.06 g/l CuSO4.5H20 (as a biocide)
temperature between 26°C and 32°C
agitation: unnecessary


carbon dispersion:
2 to 4% (w/w) of non-ionic surfactant based
conductive carbon black dispersion paste*
6 to 10 g/l acetic acid
room temperature
agitation: unnecessary


activator:
1 g/l of dye D&C Green No.5 , C.I 61570.
room temperature
agitation: not known

non-chloride etchant:
100 to 200 g/l ammonium persulfate
or
1% hydrogen peroxide
10% sulfuric acid.
both baths may be used at room temperature.


* The carbon black dispersion paste is FLEXOBRITE BLACK 258/86

manufactured

by Degussa Coatings & Colorants.

You will have to phone around and get a 500g sample for aqueous

based

non-ionic surfactant conductive carbon black dispersion. Many of

the colorant

manufactures will have these. 500g will last you forever. There is

still a

whole range of information I left out, either because I haven't

worked it out

yet or I missed it. The D&C Green No5 is available from food, drug

& cosmetic

dye suppliers, either as a sample or in small volume (1 kg). Good

luck

Adam

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., "caveteursus" <j.walton@a...> wrote:

Why not use Circuit Works conductive epoxy?

I think this product is just for reworking/repairing traces. Also
imagine if I had a board with 10000 holes. Do you think I want to
spend me time coating each hole.

--
John Hallows

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Homebrew_PCBs
group.

File : /Making Plated Through Holes at Home
Uploaded by : alienrelics <alienrelics@...>
Description : By Adam Seychell

You can access this file at the URL



To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit



Regards,

alienrelics <alienrelics@...>

At 02:10 PM 3/2/02 -0500, David Saum wrote:

I need to draw some schematics
of my circuits, but I do not have
any software.

I think very highly of CADINT. They now have a free version which is good for up to 250 pins. In fact, you are using the paid for version with a license good for 250 pins. That license is free.

You can download the most current version from both www.cadint.com and www.cadint.se . You will have to fill out a little form to get it but they don't spam you or sell your email address. Be sure to also download the manual and tutorial - these are not included in the main download.

If you decide you like the package enough to upgrade to the pay version, they have several options available. The high end is fairly pricey but I feel it is serious bang for the buck. Note that the only thing that changes when you upgrade is the license file and passwords. You still keep the same program you were using with the free license.

In a nutshell:
250 pins - downloaded: free
250 pins - shipped on CD: $10
non-commercial - 500 pins: $90
Other variants are available.

dwayne



Dwayne Reid <dwayner@...>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002)
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The cost is not the problem since the carbon dispersion should be available
free from one of the large colorant producers. The dye is similarly
available. I got 20 kg of dispersion paste for $130 AU. This is enough to
make about 1000 liters of solution. I've used about 100 grams so far. The
cost will be in building or setting up your chemical tanks. Plating copper is
easy but trying to plate uniform smooth copper on to your PCB takes a lot
more effort. I would say the carbon black process is simple relative to
copper plating. In other words, if you can get successful copper plating then
I'm sure the carbon black process will be easy for you. The success rate for
plating holes is just about perfect, but it has taken me a long time to get
at this stage. The guide I described is a good start. The only concern I have
is that a different carbon black dispersion concentrate may give different
results.


Adam

j_hallows wrote:

In a message dated 04-Mar-02 08:15:05 Central Standard Time,
j.walton@... writes:

Homebrew is great for PROTO's and One-off's, where you would like
something in a couple of hours, but the personal economics quickly
get swamped.

Exactly! The only things that would make PTH at home "worth it" would be any
one or combination of the following:

1. The personal "need" to prove "I can DO that!";
2. A lack of a professional PC-house within 50 miles, that will do PTH for
you, essentially "while you wait";
3. A need to make PTH boards for a top-secret national-defence project that
must be completed TONIGHT;